Curt Schilling

[Jeritron]

I wouldn't be suprised if this has been discussed on here before, but I figured I'd give it another discussion. I was discussing it with someone today, and it's discussed around here fairly often.

It's interesting to see what fans from other parts of the country think, though.

Does he deserve to be in the Hall of Fame?

[Jeritron]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/schilcu01.shtml

[Jeritron]

I say yes, without question. His career stats and status are pretty prominent. He came in under 300 wins, but has a respectable career ERA despite some bad seasons early in his career, and over 3000 strikeouts. He had some tremendous seasons and put out a consistantly dominant performance.
He's also one of the best control pitchers of all times, with a strikeout to walk ratio that only Pedro Martinez and Greg Maddux really compare to.

I'd say looking just at his regular season accomplishments he's worthy, but arguable. But his post-season statistics and legacy put him over the edge.
Possibly the greatest post-season pitcher of all-time. His stats are insane. They're even more impressive if you take into account that they're skewed by that one bad outing against the Yankees when he was injured.
He came back from it with the legendary bloody sock game, which is one of the classic baseball moments. I'm a homer though.

Still, don't know how this is even a question among the voting sports media.

[Triple Naitch]

I love Schilling, but if Jack Morris or Burt Blylevin aren't in, then neither should he.

[Jeritron]

http://graneyandthepig.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/curtschilling-bloody-sock.jpg

[Triple Naitch]

I have that picture hanging in my room.

[Triple Naitch]

I hope my belief is proven wrong, though.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Blyleven not being in is one of the great injustices in American sport so I'm not going to compare Schilling's numbers to his. And Schilling had a better career than Morris.

I think Schilling gets in based on his postseason track record.

[Jeritron]

Professional Yankee Killer

[Triple Naitch]

Morris was just as incredible in the playoffs as Schill.

[Jeritron]

stats please

[Triple Naitch]

He threw a fucking 10 inning shutout in game 7 of the World Series.

[Triple Naitch]

Regular Season

Morris: 254 wins, 2478 K's, 3.90 ERA, 5 time All-Star
Schilling: 216 wins, 3116 K's, 3.46 ERA, 6 time All-Star

Playoffs

Morris: 4 Postseasons, 7 wins, 3.80 ERA, 4 rings, 1 WS MVP
Schilling: 12 Postseasons, 11 wins, 2.23 ERA, 3 rings, 1 WS MVP

[Jeritron]

He should be in

[Jeritron]

Barry Larkin and Roberto Alomar should go in next year

[Triple Naitch]

Robbie Alomar is probably the greatest all-around 2nd baseman of our time.

[Triple Naitch]

AIDs and all.

[Jeritron]

I would go with Craig Biggio

[Jeritron]

Does Ryne Sandberg count as our time? Because I would go with him over Alomar as well

[Triple Naitch]

I'd say Ryne was more the era right before.

Biggio lasted longer, but Robbie had way better seasons. And Alomar blew everybody else away with his glove work.

[Jeritron]

That Orioles infield in the mid 90s was fantastic both defensively and offensively. Palmerio, Alomar, Ripken and Ventura.

[Triple Naitch]

Indeed. Brady Anderson had a slick glove too.

[DaveWadding]

I'd say Ryne was more the era right before.

Biggio lasted longer, but Robbie had way better seasons. And Alomar blew everybody else away with his glove work.

Ryno is our era. I watched him when I was a kid. and was so happy when he came back for a year.

Also, Schill is a definite yes. I :love: him.

[Jeritron]

I think the era Schilling played in will help his chances too, and rightfully so. Not just because he stood out and performed at the highest level while facing juiced hitters, but also because they're his compettition on the ballot.

Currently, there aren't many borderline players hanging around. Andre Dawson is borderline right now, and could get in next year. That's probably his last chance since there's a whole new wave of guys coming up. I hope he does.

Beyond that, there are very few guys who've been hanging on the ballot. Rice is in.

So pretty much you're looking at Barry Larkin and Roberto Alomar next year. They'll probably go right in first ballot.
Fred McGriff is up with them. He may go in, but he was never as dominant as he was consistent. I'd say he's borderline and may hang around the ballot for years before getting the nod, like Jim Rice.

In 2011, I believe Bagwell is up. He'll go in first ballot unless he's linked to roids. I don't think there's many others eligible that years.

By the time Schilling is looking at HoF eligibility, he'll be one of the best names on the ballot for voters.
That's because Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and Palmerio will all be looking at their first ballot in the same year as him, or close to it.
It's very possibly that due to the steroid contreversy, they won't get in. At the very least, the voters will boycott them on their first go around. Maybe one or two of them will sneak in later down the road, but that still leaves a big window for the guys with them who were clean as far as we know.

Biggio and Piazza will be up then, and they'll go in. Schilling would be the third biggest star after them, so he'll probably get the nod.

[Triple Naitch]

Ryne Sandberg
.285 AVG, 2,386 hits, 282 HR, 1,061 RBI, 10 All-Star, 9 Gold Gloves, 7 Silver Sluggers, 1 NL MVP

Roberto Alomar
.300 AVG, 2,724 hits, 210 HR, 1,134 RBI, 474 steals, 12 All-Star, 10 Gold Gloves, 4 Silver Sluggers, 2 rings, 1 ALCS MVP, 1 All-Star Game MVP

Craig Biggio
.281 AVG, 3,060 hits, 291 HR, 414 steals, 7 All-Star, 4 Gold Gloves, 5 Silver Sluggers

[Jeritron]

It's also important to keep in mind that pitchers and hitters are viewed seperately, and although all players are looked at as a group, there is a certain deliniation.

All of his HoF compettition on the upcoming ballots are positional players. There aren't very many notable pitchers from his era that will surround him on the ballot.
There is Clemens, but that's it. He's got the roids stigma.

So Schilling's the first and only dominant pitcher from his era to get a HoF try, and he's alone.

Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, and John Smoltz are still playing. Glavine is technically a free agent.

[Triple Naitch]

Channeling my inner DaveWadding.

[Triple Naitch]

What about Mike Mussina?

[Jeritron]

Ryne Sandberg
.285 AVG, 2,386 hits, 282 HR, 1,061 RBI, 10 All-Star, 9 Gold Gloves, 7 Silver Sluggers, 1 NL MVP

Roberto Alomar
.300 AVG, 2,724 hits, 210 HR, 1,134 RBI, 474 steals, 12 All-Star, 10 Gold Gloves, 4 Silver Sluggers, 2 rings, 1 ALCS MVP, 1 All-Star Game MVP

Craig Biggio
.281 AVG, 3,060 hits, 291 HR, 414 steals, 7 All-Star, 4 Gold Gloves, 5 Silver Sluggers

I knew Alomar was a shoe-in, but I didn't realize how strong his numbers were compared to them. He kind of flew under the radar as time went on. The other two get so much more exposure.

I still prefer Biggio as a player, but that may just be my preference. I always was a mark for his all-around play.
I also love that he was a catcher, a second baseman, and an outfielder and excelled at all those areas of the field.
I believe he won a gold glove in all three positions?

[Triple Naitch]

No, he won all 4 at 2B. Four straight from '94-'97.

[Jeritron]

What about Mike Mussina?

I think he's borderline. More borderline than Schilling. His stats look very good, but he never really hit the dominance everyone expected of him.
He had some great seasons, but his time with the Orioles really set expectations for him that he never met.

He was a bit inconsistent, and he definitely was overshadowed by the other pitchers of his time.
I guess it doesn't help when you're taking the mound in the same era as Pedro, Randy Johnson, and Clemens.

I think it hurts them that a lot of the time he wasn't the ace of his staff either.

I'd probably give him my vote (if I had one). Not first ballot, but down the line.

I always liked Mussina. Even as a Red Sox fan, I respected him as a Yankee.

[Jeritron]

too bad Carl Everett broke up his perfect game in the 9th. I think that would have helped his legacy

[Triple Naitch]

Roberto had 4 fucking amazing seasons that just need to be mentioned.

1993: .326-17-93, 55 steals
1996: .328-22-94, 17 steals
1999: .323-24-120, 37 steals
2001: .336-20-100, 30 steals

The only things that hold Alomar back is the collapse of his career after 2001 and the fact that he bounced around from team to team.

[Jeritron]

No, he won all 4 at 2B. Four straight from '94-'97.

Damn. I'm not sure where I got that falacious factoid, but I'm glad I know now so I don't spread it.

[Triple Naitch]

too bad Carl Everett broke up his perfect game in the 9th. I think that would have helped his legacy

I still remember that game. Crazy Carl was a pinch-hitter in the 9th. David Cone threw a hell of a game for the Sox. It was ESPN Sunday Night Baseball.

[Jeritron]

Maddux will be up around then too, which I failed to think of. He's first ballot.

[Triple Naitch]

I remember Darin Erstad won gold gloves at 1st and OF. Maybe you were thinking of him?

[Emperor Smeat]

He will eventually make it to the Hall. Maybe a 1st time induction but usually that depends more on who's in his voting class when he's eligible for voting like is done when the voting occurs. His postseason stats with the rings and the Bloody Sock game against the Yankees in 2004 might be what solidifies his nomination into the Hall of Fame.

[DaveBrawl]

I'd say yes just for his post season numbers alone. He was great during the regular season, but he took it to another level a lot of guys couldn't reach in the playoffs.

[YOUR Hero]

I've always found Schilling to be a dickhead. But his numbers and accomplishments in the big moments cannot be disputed. He's a HoF

[Nicky Fives]

yup.... the K's should get him in alone.... and beside a bust of him, they should hang the infamous bloody sock