Ol Dirty Dastard
07-29-2009, 08:06 PM
And in case people are going to start crying about how this should be in our "little mma sub forum" this is from wrestling observer, and pretty much, mostly wrestling is talked about. So that's my pre-emptive "stop whining" attack on you.
Joe Babinsack on wrestling fans moving to MMA
Are we all becoming MMA fans or what?
I can start dropping names, and having fun with it all, but the reality is, I’m more a MMA guy today than a wrestling guy, and it’s becoming hard to deny. Last month, I got a journalist pass to the UCFC “Rumble on the Rivers” event, the first major MMA card in Pittsburgh PA – and arguably the state, as Pittsburgh trumps Philly once again. (yeah, go Phillies. I’ll take the Steelers and Penguins these days.)
But when was the last pro wrestling card I dragged myself to?
I mean Ric Flair was fifty miles away, with ROH to boot, and I couldn’t bear the traffic, the hassle and the same old same old for that. Sorry to say, but then again, I’m not sure why ROH decides to go to Elizabeth, PA. Just because Norm Connors can work it, doesn’t mean the mainstream Pittsburgh fans are willing to go.
In September, I’ve been trying to line up a trip to Youngstown, OH to cover the WEC event. Quite frankly, I’m not sure who’s headlining a month and a half out, but I know that’s going to be a great night of fights, and a great MMA experience, and a glimpse at the really big time.
Now, if you know Youngstown, and the reputation that town has in Western Pennsylvania, you’d know that it isn’t merely a fifty or so mile trip. It’s heading into Cleveland territory and it’s heading into scenes I’d rather not talk about in public. But there’s a point there, because I’m not hesitating on going if I get the assignment.
PPV’s? yeah, like I’m going to watch the Night of Champions, and don’t make me laugh about any offering by TNA. On the other hand, I’m going to want to see Dragon Gate, so there’s still hope for us all. But UFC 100? Are you kidding? Brock Lesnar?!? Lesnar/Mir, and that awesome build-up?
And isn’t it strange that the most compelling figures are in MMA?
Bobby Lashley, another pro wrestling star with potential to turn MMA megastar.
Fedor Emilianenko, who’s becoming the hardcore superstar that mainstream America is waking up to, sort of in a way that Misawa or Kobashi once did in Japan. Now, it’s not a matter of if he’ll ever fight in the UFC, but almost definitely when. Sure, who’s going to pay the man today, and how can any Japanese promotion pay him anywhere near the all-but-guaranteed money he’d get in the UFC.
Let’s be real. Fedor vs Lesnar tops a million buys (you laugh, I’m sure, at how l lowball it.)
Win or lose, Fedor has fights galore. Win or lose, Lesnar has fights galore. And the rematch does bigger numbers. And Randy Couture gets to fight one or the other or both. And the upstarts, from Velasquez to Cane to Dos Santos get to grow and gain experience, one way or another, while major stars set the table into the next year and a half.
Josh Barnett helps Affliction spiral into oblivion, and we’re more intrigued than whether or not Jeff Hardy is really going, going gone in the WWE (for now) or the realities of the return of Chris Masters to that same company.
Tito Ortiz kinda sneaks back in the UFC, and it’s vastly interesting and adds one more name to the headline elite of MMA, and gives another several months over the next year with a mainstream recognizable name. Yet TNA surprises us all with either the worst taste of a worked backstage gimmick, or an incredibly convoluted drama that will likely do nothing for the creative morass that said company finds itself in.
It’s not about me, it’s about the industries that I find my attention split between. And it’s not just me, but millions.
The fun thing is, the professional wrestling industry had this situation 80 years or so ago.
At that time, and before it, but not much after it, professional wrestling was all about big fights, real fights and larger than life figures. But at that level, real fights become snooze fests, big fights become hard to find, and larger than life figures are ground into short careers.
Enter professional wrestling as it has become today,
But it was a long and slow decline from larger than life characters, more flashy matches, and eventually big fights. Whether those fights were because of a dominant champion, or a touring champion fighting a region’s biggest draw, big fights were redesigned. Styles evolved and realistic moved to muscle-men, and then towards extremes, and then towards athleticism, and now it’s just boring. Cartoonish characters replaced the ethnic heroes and he admired champions, and then reality remade them, and then we’ve seen a mishmash of them all.
Professional wrestling, I’m sure, will be reborn with MMA.
But I’m not going to hold my breath, and at the same time, I’m astonished by the realities of what professional wrestling can do when it wants to.
Bobby Lashley gets a big build up by TNA, and one wonders why they can’t do the same with another name on their roster. Suicide tears down the house at ComicCon in San Diego, displaying a style unseen by geeks and hardcores of another inbred industry, and eyes are opened. Of course, TNA will continue to push former WWE stars, and tone down their X Division and pretend like Vince Russo is a genius, but hey, that’s reality.
The WWE pulls in Shaq, and on one thought, a WrestleMania match between the Cleveland Cavalier and the Big Show sounds like a BIG FIGHT beyond all big fights. Like TNA and Lashley challenging big MMA names, it’s likely a match never to happen, but the seeds are planted. Why, a pro wrestling fan may ask, can’t the same involvement, energy or investment be created for other big fights … other than the fact that pro wrestling is trapped in its own insanity.
Others have mentioned it, described it and explained it, but the problem with pro wrestling these days isn’t a lack of understanding, but a seeming indifference. There’s no need to put in an effort when your company is the king of the mountain. There’s no need to put an effort in when management is satisfied with eking out its profits, and big names have their rewards, and of course, who cares about the little guys?
Which is a story in and of itself, since the little guys are busting themselves, abusing themselves and often overdoing it for the attention of … the indifferent.
But the obvious is so incomprehensible to the indifferent, and the obvious is rather obvious to those in MMA, well, those in the UFC above all, and that’s the fans. Whether its tangible or not, the UFC has provided the channels for enjoyment; investment of time, effort and emotion; and most of all, by providing the framework to make it all happen.
Championships matter.
Watching a PPV that has meaning matters.
Paying a fair price for a respectful event matters.
Striving to make matchups that count matters.
Building for the future and establishing the sport matters.
Sure, a lot of that doesn’t completely correlate to the industry we call professional wrestling, but it once did, once upon a time, when the fans were the center of attention, not (as Paul Heyman so gloriously says) when the owners were.
I continue to find it ironic that we watch a 100 year plus industry crumble away, piece by piece, lost fan after lost fan, when both are, to more than nominal degrees, being run by the decisions of daughters of men who were themselves obviously impressive businessmen.
What a couple of Jillasses they are!
We’ve seen two companies hell bent on reinventing all the wrong things about an entertainment that is desperate for reinvention of certain fundamentals.
We’ve seen the UFC take up discarded concepts, names and opportunities and turn them into gold, simply by sticking to the basics of promotion.
I know it’s harsh to say, but one wonders why decision makers are claiming hours upon endless hours of honing, revising and revisiting concepts that are clearly headed in the wrong direction, all the while they are ignoring not just the outside world, but the outside world that offers so much insight into their business that it’s amazing to see how many blind eyes turning themselves silly.
Joe Babinsack on wrestling fans moving to MMA
Are we all becoming MMA fans or what?
I can start dropping names, and having fun with it all, but the reality is, I’m more a MMA guy today than a wrestling guy, and it’s becoming hard to deny. Last month, I got a journalist pass to the UCFC “Rumble on the Rivers” event, the first major MMA card in Pittsburgh PA – and arguably the state, as Pittsburgh trumps Philly once again. (yeah, go Phillies. I’ll take the Steelers and Penguins these days.)
But when was the last pro wrestling card I dragged myself to?
I mean Ric Flair was fifty miles away, with ROH to boot, and I couldn’t bear the traffic, the hassle and the same old same old for that. Sorry to say, but then again, I’m not sure why ROH decides to go to Elizabeth, PA. Just because Norm Connors can work it, doesn’t mean the mainstream Pittsburgh fans are willing to go.
In September, I’ve been trying to line up a trip to Youngstown, OH to cover the WEC event. Quite frankly, I’m not sure who’s headlining a month and a half out, but I know that’s going to be a great night of fights, and a great MMA experience, and a glimpse at the really big time.
Now, if you know Youngstown, and the reputation that town has in Western Pennsylvania, you’d know that it isn’t merely a fifty or so mile trip. It’s heading into Cleveland territory and it’s heading into scenes I’d rather not talk about in public. But there’s a point there, because I’m not hesitating on going if I get the assignment.
PPV’s? yeah, like I’m going to watch the Night of Champions, and don’t make me laugh about any offering by TNA. On the other hand, I’m going to want to see Dragon Gate, so there’s still hope for us all. But UFC 100? Are you kidding? Brock Lesnar?!? Lesnar/Mir, and that awesome build-up?
And isn’t it strange that the most compelling figures are in MMA?
Bobby Lashley, another pro wrestling star with potential to turn MMA megastar.
Fedor Emilianenko, who’s becoming the hardcore superstar that mainstream America is waking up to, sort of in a way that Misawa or Kobashi once did in Japan. Now, it’s not a matter of if he’ll ever fight in the UFC, but almost definitely when. Sure, who’s going to pay the man today, and how can any Japanese promotion pay him anywhere near the all-but-guaranteed money he’d get in the UFC.
Let’s be real. Fedor vs Lesnar tops a million buys (you laugh, I’m sure, at how l lowball it.)
Win or lose, Fedor has fights galore. Win or lose, Lesnar has fights galore. And the rematch does bigger numbers. And Randy Couture gets to fight one or the other or both. And the upstarts, from Velasquez to Cane to Dos Santos get to grow and gain experience, one way or another, while major stars set the table into the next year and a half.
Josh Barnett helps Affliction spiral into oblivion, and we’re more intrigued than whether or not Jeff Hardy is really going, going gone in the WWE (for now) or the realities of the return of Chris Masters to that same company.
Tito Ortiz kinda sneaks back in the UFC, and it’s vastly interesting and adds one more name to the headline elite of MMA, and gives another several months over the next year with a mainstream recognizable name. Yet TNA surprises us all with either the worst taste of a worked backstage gimmick, or an incredibly convoluted drama that will likely do nothing for the creative morass that said company finds itself in.
It’s not about me, it’s about the industries that I find my attention split between. And it’s not just me, but millions.
The fun thing is, the professional wrestling industry had this situation 80 years or so ago.
At that time, and before it, but not much after it, professional wrestling was all about big fights, real fights and larger than life figures. But at that level, real fights become snooze fests, big fights become hard to find, and larger than life figures are ground into short careers.
Enter professional wrestling as it has become today,
But it was a long and slow decline from larger than life characters, more flashy matches, and eventually big fights. Whether those fights were because of a dominant champion, or a touring champion fighting a region’s biggest draw, big fights were redesigned. Styles evolved and realistic moved to muscle-men, and then towards extremes, and then towards athleticism, and now it’s just boring. Cartoonish characters replaced the ethnic heroes and he admired champions, and then reality remade them, and then we’ve seen a mishmash of them all.
Professional wrestling, I’m sure, will be reborn with MMA.
But I’m not going to hold my breath, and at the same time, I’m astonished by the realities of what professional wrestling can do when it wants to.
Bobby Lashley gets a big build up by TNA, and one wonders why they can’t do the same with another name on their roster. Suicide tears down the house at ComicCon in San Diego, displaying a style unseen by geeks and hardcores of another inbred industry, and eyes are opened. Of course, TNA will continue to push former WWE stars, and tone down their X Division and pretend like Vince Russo is a genius, but hey, that’s reality.
The WWE pulls in Shaq, and on one thought, a WrestleMania match between the Cleveland Cavalier and the Big Show sounds like a BIG FIGHT beyond all big fights. Like TNA and Lashley challenging big MMA names, it’s likely a match never to happen, but the seeds are planted. Why, a pro wrestling fan may ask, can’t the same involvement, energy or investment be created for other big fights … other than the fact that pro wrestling is trapped in its own insanity.
Others have mentioned it, described it and explained it, but the problem with pro wrestling these days isn’t a lack of understanding, but a seeming indifference. There’s no need to put in an effort when your company is the king of the mountain. There’s no need to put an effort in when management is satisfied with eking out its profits, and big names have their rewards, and of course, who cares about the little guys?
Which is a story in and of itself, since the little guys are busting themselves, abusing themselves and often overdoing it for the attention of … the indifferent.
But the obvious is so incomprehensible to the indifferent, and the obvious is rather obvious to those in MMA, well, those in the UFC above all, and that’s the fans. Whether its tangible or not, the UFC has provided the channels for enjoyment; investment of time, effort and emotion; and most of all, by providing the framework to make it all happen.
Championships matter.
Watching a PPV that has meaning matters.
Paying a fair price for a respectful event matters.
Striving to make matchups that count matters.
Building for the future and establishing the sport matters.
Sure, a lot of that doesn’t completely correlate to the industry we call professional wrestling, but it once did, once upon a time, when the fans were the center of attention, not (as Paul Heyman so gloriously says) when the owners were.
I continue to find it ironic that we watch a 100 year plus industry crumble away, piece by piece, lost fan after lost fan, when both are, to more than nominal degrees, being run by the decisions of daughters of men who were themselves obviously impressive businessmen.
What a couple of Jillasses they are!
We’ve seen two companies hell bent on reinventing all the wrong things about an entertainment that is desperate for reinvention of certain fundamentals.
We’ve seen the UFC take up discarded concepts, names and opportunities and turn them into gold, simply by sticking to the basics of promotion.
I know it’s harsh to say, but one wonders why decision makers are claiming hours upon endless hours of honing, revising and revisiting concepts that are clearly headed in the wrong direction, all the while they are ignoring not just the outside world, but the outside world that offers so much insight into their business that it’s amazing to see how many blind eyes turning themselves silly.