Typical HHH and HBK [Archive]

The Jayman

10-15-2009, 04:58 PM

Source: The Pro Wrestling Torch

Among some locker room circles, both Triple H and Shawn Michaels are two of the least popular wrestlers these days. Even those who appear on SmackDown and have minimal exposure to them feel as though they are abusing their power and standing in the way of WWE elevating new stars.

The overwhelming sentiment among those in the company is that Raw’s “no man’s land” in the sense there are no full-fledged pushes to be had as a result of the strong influence of Hunter and Michaels, as well as Randy Orton and John Cena. Many feel if even one of these main event performers dislikes you enough to badmouth you to management, you won’t be getting a push.

BigDaddyCool

10-15-2009, 05:01 PM

So what about Batista?

Savio

10-15-2009, 05:03 PM

They are putting over legacy aren't they?

The Ravishing One

10-15-2009, 05:03 PM

Where's a drug test fail when you want one??

The Ravishing One

10-15-2009, 05:04 PM

Where's a drug test fail when you want one??

That was in reference to Batista. Damn you Savior and your quick post!

James Steele

10-15-2009, 05:04 PM

:lol:

Don't get me started on this bullshit.

Ermaximus

10-15-2009, 05:05 PM

Where's a drug test fail when you want one??

They fucked up and wrote Rey Mysterio on the sheet. :shifty:

The Ravishing One

10-15-2009, 05:09 PM

Blame the mexican

Supreme Olajuwon

10-15-2009, 05:10 PM

Are we just talking about main event pushes? Because the only person I could see this applying to on Raw right now is Mark Henry but he's been with company since 96 so I really don't think he would count as a new star.

James Steele

10-15-2009, 05:12 PM

Yup, HBK and HHH are so worried about people getting a push and stealing their spotlight that they are feuding with a lackey tag team and making them stars.

What Would Kevin Do?

10-15-2009, 05:13 PM

Yeah, seriously. HHH and HBK have done more for Dibiase and Rhodes then they deserved. HBK hasn't been near a world title in years.

Supreme Olajuwon

10-15-2009, 05:15 PM

I wouldn't be shocked if this story were true, but I just can't figure out who they're holding down. Christian?

Fabien Barthez

10-15-2009, 05:20 PM

Whatever. I suppose nobody says this about Taker...

Ermaximus

10-15-2009, 05:22 PM

I wouldn't be shocked if this story were true, but I just can't figure out who they're holding down. Christian?

That would Vince holding him back no doubt. Hasn't Vince said he's not big on him before?

The Jayman

10-15-2009, 05:24 PM

it was kind of odd to read that and think why are they getting so much heat backstage.
IMO I don't think they're holding anyone down.

BigDaddyCool

10-15-2009, 05:27 PM

They are easy scape goats for the locker room.

The Jayman

10-15-2009, 05:30 PM

i like how they throw in "as well as Randy Orton and John Cena"

Londoner

10-15-2009, 05:33 PM

Whatever. I suppose nobody says this about Taker...

Or Hownswoggle. That guy never puts anybody over. :mad:

Waylander

10-15-2009, 05:34 PM

They are easy scape goats for the locker room.

Beat me to it. They're just scape goats for the lack of talent again. Nobody blames Vince, the guy who actually holds the power and has the final word. Even if they 'had his ear' he can still turn them down and he should if it's deemed right or wrong.

BigDaddyCool

10-15-2009, 05:34 PM

Yeah...I could see ragging on Randy (he has a huge ego and is in the mianevent. Cena is too a lot. And both of their talents are arguable.

I have a feeling the people bitching suck anyways and are just looking for a reason to take it out on. I would say it is someone like Kennedy...but they fired him already because he sucked out loud.

BigDaddyCool

10-15-2009, 05:38 PM

Also, just throwing this out there. Under DX's watch, WWE has still made more new stars in the past 5 years than lets say TNA and WCW ever did. By which I mean real mainevent stars from scratch.

Loose Cannon

10-15-2009, 05:38 PM

Bret Hart wouldn't do this

BigDaddyCool

10-15-2009, 05:39 PM

Naw, he would just fuck everyone wife.

Kane Knight

10-15-2009, 05:49 PM

DX in the doghouse?

BigDaddyCool

10-15-2009, 05:50 PM

Not with anyone worth a damn.

Triple Naitch

10-15-2009, 05:54 PM

Or Hownswoggle. That guy never puts anybody over. :mad:

Pretty sure everybody is put over Hornswoggle. :shifty:

See what I did there? :lol:

The Jayman

10-15-2009, 06:01 PM

I have a feeling the people bitching suck anyways and are just looking for a reason to take it out on. I would say it is someone like Kennedy...but they fired him already because he sucked out loud.

This is the most likely reason. It would be funny if these sucky guys got their pushed and still nobody liked them b/c they suck

James Steele

10-15-2009, 06:03 PM

Also, nobody bitches about Stone Cold refusing to even work with Jeff Jarrett.

BigDaddyCool

10-15-2009, 06:09 PM

Also, the people who have the best all together packages are getting pushes. MVP, Morrison, CM Punk, and the Miz are constantly maineventing or in high profile matches.

KYR

10-15-2009, 06:20 PM

Retarded Reporting at it's finest.

"HHH and HBK help WWE create new stars" is not a headline.

"OMG!!! HHH and HBK hold back main event talent. Click here for uncensored EGO pics" apparently is.

James Steele

10-15-2009, 06:53 PM

Is TPWW defending Triple H and Shawn Michaels?

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/protestwarriors/ScannersExplodingHead.gif

BigDaddyCool

10-15-2009, 06:54 PM

Pretty much. The old HHH and HBK are holding everyone down line doesn't fly anymore.

Theo Dious

10-15-2009, 07:58 PM

Pretty much. The old HHH and HBK are holding everyone down line doesn't fly anymore.

Seriously. It's so 90s, or at best 2003.

Savio

10-15-2009, 08:04 PM

http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/8268/asskissernl6.png

Jannettyzilla

10-15-2009, 08:27 PM

The only way I see this being a problem is how much face time Trips and Shawn get. Hell, Shawn wasn't at the last RAW, but a cardboard cut out of him got more time than people like Kofi, MVP, and Henry who are the next level of faces.

The fact is, guys like them or Swagger or Miz aren't gonna get on ads or sell merchandise and be seen as a "face of the company" while Shawn and HHH are around, even if those two aren't winning the titles.

Mr. Nerfect

10-15-2009, 08:33 PM

DX are boring, stale, and the same four guys dominate like every main event. Sorry, but I see merit to this story. I mean, it may not be true -- but it wouldn't surprise me.

blak23

10-15-2009, 08:35 PM

Whatever. I suppose nobody says this about Taker...
taker doesn't take long ass unnecessary promos when they could be showing off talent

Mr. Nerfect

10-15-2009, 08:41 PM

taker doesn't take long ass unnecessary promos when they could be showing off talent

Taker rarely shows up to work.

Mr. Nerfect

10-15-2009, 08:42 PM

Also, Randy Orton seems like a guy that has definitely been throwing around his weight recently. Isn't be believed to be behind the actual contract releases of Mr. Kennedy and Nick Dinsmore?

BigDaddyCool

10-15-2009, 08:43 PM

DX are boring, stale, and the same four guys dominate like every main event. Sorry, but I see merit to this story. I mean, it may not be true -- but it wouldn't surprise me.

Knee jerk noid post.

Mr. Nerfect

10-15-2009, 08:47 PM

Knee jerk noid post.

Same can be said for any post where you jerk Triple H and Michaels while on your knees.

wwe2222

10-15-2009, 08:52 PM

Also, Randy Orton seems like a guy that has definitely been throwing around his weight recently. Isn't be believed to be behind the actual contract releases of Mr. Kennedy and Nick Dinsmore?

Didnt he help Eugene get his job back in the first place?

Johnny Vegas

10-15-2009, 09:17 PM

Same can be said for any post where you jerk Triple H and Michaels while on your knees.

lol

Johnny Vegas

10-15-2009, 09:21 PM

I'm liking the way SD! is getting ran right now. There are backstage skits, good wrestling, decent fueds, and CM Punk. RAW has been pretty decent lately but it does seem like we get the same main events every week.

As much as people will bitch about it, the only IMO right now to solve stale programming is to stop the brand split or get rid of ECW's show. Its not like its "ECW" anyway. Go ahead and move those stars to RAW and SD! and freshen the product up a little bit.

Then again, maybe everything is stale to everyone because Edge isn't there.

KIRA

10-15-2009, 09:44 PM

Didnt he help Eugene get his job back in the first place?

My selective memory wont allow me to process that question

Triple Naitch

10-15-2009, 09:55 PM

taker doesn't take long ass unnecessary promos when they could be showing off talent

Gotta disagree. Every one of Taker's promos are the same. It's dark, I'm going to take your soul.

Kane Knight

10-15-2009, 10:02 PM

taker doesn't take long ass unnecessary promos when they could be showing off talent

I dunno. On the rare occasions he shows up to wrestle, his entrance takes about six weeks worth of DX Promo time.

Emperor Smeat

10-15-2009, 10:49 PM

This seems to be based partially on the past history of HBK & HHH and how stale and predictable the main event is right now on RAW.

Main event is just HBK/HHH, The Legacy, Orton, and Cena. So either you get a DX tag win, Legacy tag win, Orton rare win, or the usual Cena overcoming the odds win.

Theo Dious

10-15-2009, 11:02 PM

Incidentally, exactly who has Michaels "held down" since his return in '02?

Theo Dious

10-15-2009, 11:04 PM

Gotta disagree. Every one of Taker's promos are the same. It's dark, I'm going to take your soul.

Did you bother to read what you quoted? He was talking about the length of his promos, not the content.

Afterlife

10-15-2009, 11:23 PM

Yeah, seriously. HHH and HBK have done more for Dibiase and Rhodes then they deserved. HBK hasn't been near a world title in years.

Hell, HBK was sitting at home for six months; he hasn't been there long enough to hold anyone down, and he's the guy who perpetrated the first DX tap-out to the New Kids. This is utter silliness.

Taker rarely shows up to work.

This is also true. I like the guy and all, but he's taken more time off than... O.k., I don't have any clever comparisons, but he takes a lot of freakin' vacations. I doubt he'd care too much about holding people down when he's fully aware of his limited future.

Afterlife

10-15-2009, 11:24 PM

Shit, I got it! He takes more down time than unionized geese! SHAZAAM!

Mr. Nerfect

10-16-2009, 03:15 AM

Didnt he help Eugene get his job back in the first place?

Yeah, and then he got rid of it.

Mr. Nerfect

10-16-2009, 03:19 AM

Incidentally, exactly who has Michaels "held down" since his return in '02?

I'm not saying he has been holding people down, but not dominating everyone in he ring =/= not keeping down.

The Mackem

10-16-2009, 06:45 AM

I wouldn't be shocked if this story were true, but I just can't figure out who they're holding down. Christian?

Rick Steiner

Theo Dious

10-16-2009, 07:52 AM

I'm not saying he has been holding people down, but not dominating everyone in he ring =/= not keeping down.

Good lord, cool the multiple negatives. Somebody's going to get hurt reading crap like that.

Theo Dious

10-16-2009, 07:54 AM

And whatever you were trying to say, it still doesn't answer the question, and it sounds like you're suggesting that "holding down" can mean pretty much anything you want it to mean.

Mr. Nerfect

10-16-2009, 07:54 AM

Good lord, cool the multiple negatives. Somebody's going to get hurt reading crap like that.

This thread is going to hurt people.

Dave Youell

10-16-2009, 08:36 AM

I fucking hate Raw, mainly because of the 4 guys already mentioned.

70% of the show is for them, and has been for along time, they are holding guys down IMO, but taking up too much time for themselves. Not saying it’s their fault, it’s the companies fault. HHH always does the D-X thing in the summer, so he can take a breather away from the title, he’ll gain interest again around December and then be in the main event for Mania………….AGAIN.

THAT, is how you hold people down.

Let look at new stars that have actually been created on Raw within the past few years:

CM Punk: At a push, but I wouldn’t say Raw made him, he had a 2 month title run, then never saw a sniff of it again
Jeff Hardy: Great feud with Orton granted, but then messed up his own life, extenuating circumstances for that one, granted. Who knows where that was going, but I never saw him becoming Raw champ

Ummm, you’d have to go as far back to Mania 21 for when HHH made Batista I think. That’s the next one I can think off really.

And that’s why I hate Raw

Mr. Nerfect

10-16-2009, 08:49 AM

I think Jeff Hardy would have won the WWE Title, if only because he was likely going to win Money in the Bank one year. I'd like to imagine that would have freshened up RAW's main event scene, but it didn't really work for CM Punk (originally).

Cody Rhodes & Ted DiBiase are maybes. Shawn Michaels did tap out to them, but he did tap out to them at the same time. Would he tap out to either one in singles competition? Also, you'll find that guys in top spots will "put a guy over" either in a really long match or by actually losing to them a few times. When they don't get anywhere (because of their booking afterwards), it gives the WWE and the guys with the top spots currently and excuse to say "Well, that didn't work."

And it's not that I think Triple H and Shawn Michaels should be jobbing left right and centre. Nor do I think there is no merit to them still being in the main event scene. To be honest, right now, I cannot think of a better RAW main event at WrestleMania 26 than Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels, actually. There is just more of a stagnant pattern to how things go on RAW.

Dave Youell

10-16-2009, 09:34 AM

BTW

I don’t consider a man tapping out to holds applied by 2 men to be ‘putting them over’

Afterlife

10-16-2009, 10:35 AM

BTW

I don’t consider a man tapping out to holds applied by 2 men to be ‘putting them over’

Either way, it happened. And the WWE made a big deal of it.

Although, admittedly, Legacy's loss at HiaC made NO sense.

True Brit Grit

10-16-2009, 10:49 AM

Glad to see some common sense coming over in parts of this thread.

People may well be getting bored of DX being on top when they turn on the TV, but the fact is that the crowds remain hot for them and they, especially HBK, can still produce world class matches.

I read one quote comparing this situation to the old WCW which is just bullshit - how many matches of such quality did Hogan, Hall, Nash et all pull out of the bag when they were running that show? At least thse two have the goods to back it up.

The reference to John Cena/Randy Orton is simply laughable. John Cena remains one of, if not the most 'over' talent in the WWE. Good reaction or bad, there is always a reaction - that's him doing his job and doing it well, not hogging the spotlight.

Orton? He's just fantastic. I watched his promo and match against Mick Foley at Backlash from around 2004 and the way he he is now so totally into his mentally-unstable character is great. You actually believe he is unbalanced. He's also great in the ring, too.

Just another item of sloppy, lazy wrestling internet reporting from where I sit.

The way they are building Legacy/The Miz on Raw is NOT in-keeping with this talk that everyone is being held back. Fans are reacting to the Miz and Legacy are getting bigger and bigger each week - slow, gradual development over a year or so - not rammed down our throats like in the past.

No complaints from me...

Rant over.

BigDaddyCool

10-16-2009, 10:58 AM

BDC doesn't give oral to anyone. Not named Kevin Nash.

True Brit Grit

10-16-2009, 11:01 AM

BDC doesn't give oral to anyone. Not named Kevin Nash.

See its funny you say that. You forgotten that lazy summers afternoon already?

I enjoyed myself that day.

You were of acceptable standard.

BigDaddyCool

10-16-2009, 11:03 AM

I've never been to England.

True Brit Grit

10-16-2009, 11:07 AM

You keep telling yourself that! :love:

Rammsteinmad

10-16-2009, 12:05 PM

They are putting over legacy aren't they?

IMO, 'putting over' isn't letting someone pin you, so long as you get the pin at the next PPV, therefore ending the fued coming out as the final victor.

Afterlife

10-16-2009, 12:25 PM

IMO, 'putting over' isn't letting someone pin you, so long as you get the pin at the next PPV, therefore ending the fued coming out as the final victor.

That really did ruin it.

Mr. Nerfect

10-16-2009, 12:50 PM

Either way, it happened. And the WWE made a big deal of it.

Although, admittedly, Legacy's loss at HiaC made NO sense.

I have to disagree. Believe it or not, I think putting DX over at Hell in a Cell was not a bad move. They have more of that sort of match experience, and they are the faces in the feud. Like it or not, they're the ones that are meant to be moving the merchandise.

My big problem with Legacy's wins are that they almost had to win. They needed some credibility after being Orton's whipping boys for so long, and they needed a compelling reason to do another match. I don't completely agree with what Rammsteinmad said, but losing to a guy if it's just so you can do a rubber match where you go over isn't exactly "putting someone over."

Wins need to be built on. The Submission Match victory for Legacy was pretty much just to set up their Hell in a Cell loss. What Rhodes & DiBiase could use is development. It seems we might be seeing that now, with Cody Rhodes in Team RAW, pinning Cena, and DiBiase getting a fall over Orton. I think their separate development might do more for them than any single win could.

Ermaximus

10-16-2009, 12:56 PM

Incidentally, exactly who has Michaels "held down" since his return in '02?

Not a damn person. Except maybe Essa Rios, but he was doomed to failure anyways.

Dave Youell

10-16-2009, 02:20 PM

Not a damn person. Except maybe Essa Rios, but he was doomed to failure anyways.

There's the other side of the coin though,

As apposed to who have they buried. Who have they made? That should be their job as well IMO

Fignuts

10-16-2009, 02:30 PM

lol

Ermaximus

10-16-2009, 02:42 PM

There's the other side of the coin though,

As apposed to who have they buried. Who have they made? That should be their job as well IMO

You bring UP a damn good point. I mean compare for a second. Didn't The Rock help build up The Hurricane? Only to have HHH bury him shortly there after? Shelton Benjamin was the exact same was he not? Granted I'm probably wandering off topic here a bit, but still. I do agree with you that as veterans who are gradually stepping down, they should help make the "future stars" they claim nobody can be. I guess in a sense you could say DX made or helped make Legacy, but I think that was more Orton's doing above all else. Imagine though if HHH were to make let's say Evan Bourne? Or say HBK were to make MVP? What about Undertaker making Charlie Haas? Granted I'm sure none of this makes any damned sense, it doesn't completely to me, but it's all a fool's dream I guess you could say?