View Full Version : Shogun wins the 205lbs title
There was no thread so fuck it.
They haven't announced it yet but it would be a total screwjob if he didn't.
48-47 to Machida. SCREWJOB
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 12:43 AM
WHAT?!?!?!?!?! MACHIDA FUCKING WINS??
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 12:44 AM
What the fuck is this shit? Is Vince Russo booking this?
It was 50-45 to Shogun. 49-46 AT WORST
The Mask
10-25-2009, 12:45 AM
what a fucking shambles, fuck.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 12:48 AM
There is no fucking way they legitimatly scored the fight like that.
Fuck it, Machida didn't win two rounds. Not even fucking close
I stand by the title of this thread. Shogun is the champion.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 12:53 AM
Pretty shocked at the decision to be honest. I've been around traditional martial arts more than MMA and this fight really reminded me of some karate v Muay Thai fights I've seen. I loved the fight, thought it was a tremendous stylistic and strategic chess match.
Still shocked at the decision though. Thought shogun won unanimously, split decision at worst.
THE BIGGEST FUCKING SCREWJOB I HAVE EVER SEEN
Shogun won every fucking round!!!!!!!
O M F G I cannot believe UFC WENT THIS FUCKING LOW!
This is unreal. I cant belive this happend.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 12:57 AM
Read a report that Shogun spat in Dana's face after the fight, destroyed the announcer's monitors and then spelled out STRIKEFORCE in the air to the fans in the arena.
What Would Kevin Do?
10-25-2009, 12:59 AM
I also stand by the title of this thread. Shogun is the new fucking champ. After watching that fight, the sheer possibility of someone saying Machida won makes my brain hurt.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 01:01 AM
Read a report that Shogun spat in Dana's face after the fight, destroyed the announcer's monitors and then spelled out STRIKEFORCE in the air to the fans in the arena.
LOL
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 01:01 AM
I'll bet sherdog is shitting their fucking pants right now.
The Mask
10-25-2009, 01:02 AM
another thing, how come to johnson fight was allowed to go on despite the fact he was like 6lbs overweight? i mean ok if they still want to fight but it seems harsh that guy gets a loss on his record when fighting a guy twice the size of him.
I will never watch or even keep track of another UFC fight again. Good luck in Tipsters. I'm fucking done. For good. I cant follow a sport that is rigged. This shit right here is rigged.
Still shocked at the decision though. Thought shogun won unanimously, split decision at worst.
How could it have been a split decision? That would have still meant some moron out there though Machida won.
Only 3 people in the world thought Machida won that fight.
NOBODY in the press row had it for Machida by the way. Not one single person.
Legit worst scoring since Lewis/Holyfield 1 and those judges were appointed by Don King!
NoJabbaNoBogRoll
10-25-2009, 01:03 AM
I was leaning towards Shogun for the decision, but I'd have to watch it again on mute, since the commentators had orgasms every time Shogun landed a kick.
It'll be interesting to watch it carefully, and count exactly what landed, and when.
What Would Kevin Do?
10-25-2009, 01:04 AM
Is there going to be a press conference tonight? I really want to see what Dana says.
O M F G I cannot believe UFC WENT THIS FUCKING LOW!
It's not their fault. Dana White was standing behind Shogun ready to put the belt on him.
The California State Athletic Commission appoints all referees and judges. They are to blame.
I pray to God that ESPN and Yahoo report it as the biggest robbery to ever be seen on PPV.
The Mask
10-25-2009, 01:05 AM
even the stuff machida did throw didn't look like it caused much harm though. i mean i can hazard a guess which of them is going to wake up sorer in the morning.
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9758/lyotos.png
I've never felt this way about a fight . I can't believe that just happend.
I pray to God that ESPN and Yahoo report it as the biggest robbery to ever be seen on PPV.
ESPN posted on the main page that "Rua decisions Machida, seizes title".
It was fixed. I stand behind that. It was fixed and i will never watch another UFC fight again. I'm done.
Oh shit! Did I spoil this fight for all you guys???
Sorry!
What Would Kevin Do?
10-25-2009, 01:07 AM
Machida seriously needs to vacate the title. It's the only way he's going to save face. Granted it's not his fault, but people are always going to call bullshit on that win.
What Would Kevin Do?
10-25-2009, 01:08 AM
It was fixed. I stand behind that. It was fixed and i will never watch another UFC fight again. I'm done.
It's not UFC or Dana's fault though, it's the fucking judges. The judges aren't employed by UFC, they're appointed by the state...
Unless you're implying that Dana paid them off, then... Well, that would be utter fucking bullshit, and Dana would pretty much go down in flames.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 01:09 AM
If Krispy fucking deletes this thread, I swear. Rob, rename this shit.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 01:09 AM
How could it have been a split decision? That would have still meant some moron out there though Machida won.
I'm not saying I see it as anything other than a unanimous decision. I'm saying that I thought, at worst, Shogun would win a split.
If Krispy fucking deletes this thread, I swear. Rob, rename this shit.
Fuck him.
The Mask
10-25-2009, 01:11 AM
i would love to hear the judges reasoning. i think they should be held accountable for it.
The Mask
10-25-2009, 01:13 AM
it was so weird though. like when they announced it was a unanimous decision i swear machida's head went down.
What Would Kevin Do?
10-25-2009, 01:14 AM
Kenny Florian on Twitter
I love Machida but Shogun won that fight!!
it was so weird though. like when they announced it was a unanimous decision i swear machida's head went down.
It did. And his jaw dropped when they said he won.
My fucking birthday has been ruined. I cant believe this just happend.
The Mask
10-25-2009, 01:16 AM
seriously feel so bad for shogun. like it cut to him right at the end having a bit of a head in hands/weepy moment in his locker room.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 01:16 AM
lol sherdog has so much traffic it's almost broken.
The Mask
10-25-2009, 01:17 AM
you'd think dana white would update his twatty twitter lark they keep banging on about the whole fucking time too.
What Would Kevin Do?
10-25-2009, 01:18 AM
Dana's probably trying to figure out how the hell to do damage control on this.
Dana's probably trying to figure out how the hell to do damage control on this.
Exactly. He was shocked too. Just check the tape.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 01:22 AM
I wish Dana could get away with not paying Machida for the win.
This is fucking bullshit. I know where it leads. They'll have another rematch and somehow Machida will win and i'm sorry BUT THAT SHIT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE!
The Mask
10-25-2009, 01:24 AM
thats the thing. it's not even a fight i want to see again. it was pretty dull really but shogun had it. i was getting all geared up to wank myself silly over an anderson/shogun fight but no.
The Show Off
10-25-2009, 01:24 AM
Everyone needs to take a breath.
Vastardikai
10-25-2009, 01:25 AM
Unfortunately, it was probably the first two rounds that decided the fight.
Those two rounds that were really close and because of the bullshit scoring, someone "has" to win. I wouldn't doubt that they went to Machida.
I actually gave Machida Round 3. I felt Shogun had Rounds 4 and 5. I would blame CSAC and the Judges.
Basically, Shogun won, but I can see how he didn't. And that pisses me off.
Oh a rematch? Great. Meanwhile Shogun gets a loss on his record, the losers share of the purse and no belt. The rematch won't draw shit either (as if this fight did) because Machida looked beatable.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 01:26 AM
Everyone needs to take a breath.
Watch the fight, then comment.
No... Shogun won the first 2 rounds easily. You obviously didnt order the fight. Shogun dominated the first 4 rounds and probably won the last round.
BIGGEST....ROBBERY....IN LEGITAMENT SPORTS HISTOR....IF UFC IS EVEN CONSIDERING THEMSELVES AS A LEGITAMENT SPORT ANYMORE.
SuperSlim
10-25-2009, 01:28 AM
Shogun had that fight won. I'd say if Machida were to have won anything at all... I'd say 2 rounds at the most and that's being generous. But Shogun had the fight and should be the newly crowned light heavyweight champion.
Guess this builds for a "big rematch" tween the two sometime down the road.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 01:28 AM
thats the thing. it's not even a fight i want to see again. it was pretty dull really but shogun had it. i was getting all geared up to wank myself silly over an anderson/shogun fight but no.
Would love to see a rematch. Thought it was a great technical standup fight. Immense strategy by both, esp Shogun. Took away Lyoto's stance and power generation.
What Would Kevin Do?
10-25-2009, 01:29 AM
It's like Rob said, there is no "big rematch." The hype is dead because Rua took all the hype out of Machida. It's not like it was really a "close" fight. Furthermore, it wasn't that exciting either.
Unfortunately, it was probably the first two rounds that decided the fight.
Those two rounds that were really close and because of the bullshit scoring, someone "has" to win. I wouldn't doubt that they went to Machida.
I actually gave Machida Round 3. I felt Shogun had Rounds 4 and 5. I would blame CSAC and the Judges.
Basically, Shogun won, but I can see how he didn't. And that pisses me off.
You're right. The judges (actually not sure about Doc Hamilton) had the first 3 rounds to Machida.
Blind cunts.
The Show Off
10-25-2009, 01:30 AM
Watch the fight, then comment.
I'll comment now thank you very much.
If a fight is rigged, their has to be a reason its rigged, I don't need to see the fight to know that.
I've seen bad decisions before and I believe you guys when you say this is amongst the worst, but that doesn't mean the sport isn't legit.
The Mask
10-25-2009, 01:31 AM
it was a great technical fight but i think we know that the rematch isnt gonna be a whole lot different to this one, except that machida is now wiser to rua's gameplan.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 01:31 AM
Rua fought a magnificent fight. He found a way to exploit Machida's weaknesses and full on assault them. He neutralized his evasiveness and literaly took the legs out from under him. It's a sham that we aren't celebrating his genius right now.
I'll comment now thank you very much.
If a fight is rigged, their has to be a reason its rigged, I don't need to see the fight to know that.
I've seen bad decisions before and I believe you guys when you say this is amongst the worst, but that doesn't mean the sport isn't legit.
Who seriously said it wasn't legit?
Don't tell people who to react either. That's what nazi's like Krispy bollocks do.
The Mask
10-25-2009, 01:35 AM
also, i think this fight was basically the MMA version of the first rocky film.
The Show Off
10-25-2009, 01:35 AM
I will never watch or even keep track of another UFC fight again. Good luck in Tipsters. I'm fucking done. For good. I cant follow a sport that is rigged. This shit right here is rigged.
It wasn't rigged, you just got a situation where three judges made bad decision. If you watched the baseball playoffs their have been a lot of blown calls, that doesn't mean Major League Baseball is rigged. I trust that this was a terrible decision, but it's not a conspiricy, just guys making stupid decisions.
Step back from that ledge.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 01:36 AM
it was a great technical fight but i think we know that the rematch isnt gonna be a whole lot different to this one, except that machida is now wiser to rua's gameplan.
Maybe, but Machida would have to leave his entire life's training to counter Shogun. Machida's entire background is based on the shotokan style of hip and leg power generation. That's what he's trained in most prominently his whole life. It'd be a challenge for him to adopt a more conventional MMA style. Not impossible, but definitely hard for him.
Vastardikai
10-25-2009, 01:36 AM
No... Shogun won the first 2 rounds easily. You obviously didnt order the fight. Shogun dominated the first 4 rounds and probably won the last round.
You're right on one thing: I didn't order the fight. I watched it at Hooters.
I also drove all the way across town to my house, giving myself time to digest what I saw. I wouldn't doubt that they gave Machida Rounds 1, 2, and 3. Do I agree with that assessment? not necessarily.
You seem to be running on pure emotion at this point. I do want to restate the following...
Basically, Shogun won, but I can see how he didn't. And that pisses me off.
That bit should be taken as a whole, and you'll see that I'm not arguing with you.
The Mask
10-25-2009, 01:38 AM
Maybe, but Machida would have to leave his entire life's training to counter Shogun. Machida's entire background is based on the shotokan style of hip and leg power generation. That's what he's trained in most prominently his whole life. It'd be a challenge for him to adopt a more conventional MMA style. Not impossible, but definitely hard for him.
nah i just mean he knows shogun is going for leg kicks and body kicks. everyone else he's fought thus far has just been trying to knock him out and perhaps not giving him the proper respect, shogun threw him in that regard.
Funky Fly
10-25-2009, 01:38 AM
Read a report that Shogun spat in Dana's face after the fight, destroyed the announcer's monitors and then spelled out STRIKEFORCE in the air to the fans in the arena.
ROFL
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9758/lyotos.png
and ROFL. Very fucking true tho
another thing, how come to johnson fight was allowed to go on despite the fact he was like 6lbs overweight? i mean ok if they still want to fight but it seems harsh that guy gets a loss on his record when fighting a guy twice the size of him.
I heard he gave up a big chunk of his purse in exchange. Dude should be a middleweight at worst and light heavyweight at best.
After that fight, Machida better hope to god Randy Couture beats Brandon Vera because he has the perfect style to murder him and now it's been proven.
The Show Off
10-25-2009, 01:39 AM
Who seriously said it wasn't legit?
Don't tell people who to react either. That's what nazi's like Krispy bollocks do.
BIGGEST....ROBBERY....IN LEGITAMENT SPORTS HISTOR....IF UFC IS EVEN CONSIDERING THEMSELVES AS A LEGITAMENT SPORT ANYMORE.
I'm not trying to be a Nazi, I'm just saying its not worth getting yourself all pissed about. I'm just trying to be the voice of reason.
If you guys want to be pissed be pissed.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 01:40 AM
Just watch the fight, you fucking dunce. Jesus christ.
Dude.. You're a fucking blind. Shogun owned Machida in every single aspect of MMA that they possibly went through. Kicks> Shogun. Punches > Shogun. Counters > Shogun. There was no part in the first 4 rounds that Machida won. None. If you continue to argue that there was, then i think you have some sort of mental retardation. That or you didnt actually watch the fight. Shogun dominated this fight. Machida didnt do anything to Shogun that would leave ANYBODY ( not payed off ) TO BELIEVE MACHIDA WON THE FIGHT!
That simple. You're wrong. You're so wrong that you need to delete your post and never be heard from again. Bye.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 01:43 AM
nah i just mean he knows shogun is going for leg kicks and body kicks. everyone else he's fought thus far has just been trying to knock him out and perhaps not giving him the proper respect, shogun threw him in that regard.
I gotcha. But IMO, the way Shogun fought that fight wasn't necessarily just the way to defeat Machida, it is the way to defeat the style. Like you said, Shogun threw him in that regard since no one else figured out how to combat Machida's karate and assumed they could simply MMA their way to victory.
Vastardikai
10-25-2009, 01:44 AM
to RP:
I'm not gonna reply to you any further until you get over your little bitch fit, which is what you are going through at this moment.
Remember Couture vs. Sylvia? Imagine if they gave Sylvia that decision.
to RP:
I'm not gonna reply to you any further until you get over your little bitch fit, which is what you are going through at this moment.
I'm going through it because you're a punk ass bitch
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 01:46 AM
Bisping vs Hamil decision on fucking crack
to RP:
I'm not gonna reply to you any further until you get over your little bitch fit, which is what you are going through at this moment.
Fuck that. Just reply. This is meant to be fun.
The Show Off
10-25-2009, 01:47 AM
Okay, everyone is a little miffed right now. You're not reading posts, and you're just making wild accusations.
I've agreed with everything everyone has said this far, except that the fight was rigged.
But I understand the anger, I'd be pissed too if I was a Shogun fan. The truth is I'm not a fan of either of these guys.
But I'm not going to fan the flames or try to douse them anymore, I'm just going to let you guys blow your stack and feel better for doing so.
I'll come back when everyone isn't so crazy.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 01:48 AM
Actually, just come back after you watch the fight. You're being stupid commenting on it without having seen it.
BREAKING NEWS
Dana says Shogun is getting an immediate rematch and he thought Shogun won.
I'd love someone that actually watched the fight live to tell me Shogun lost the fight. Cause you cant.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 01:51 AM
Still cannot get over Shogun's strategy and execution. Holy fucking shit it was a thing of beauty. Yea, it was a shit decision but I'll manage to sleep at night. Not THAT emotionally invested in UFC.
But still. Tactical masterpiece. :'(
3 judges could.
Yah. That tells me its rigged.
Still cannot get over Shogun's strategy and execution. Holy fucking shit it was a thing of beauty. Yea, it was a shit decision but I'll manage to sleep at night. Not THAT emotionally invested in UFC.
But still. Tactical masterpiece. :'(
There was no point in the match were Machinda hurt him or even stunned him for that matter. Shogun outclassed him in ever aspect of the match. It was so fucking shocking when they said Machida won.
The Show Off
10-25-2009, 01:53 AM
Actually, just come back after you watch the fight. You're being stupid commenting on it without having seen it.
One last thing.
I never commented on the fight.
I commented on everyone's reaction.
Vastardikai
10-25-2009, 01:53 AM
Fuck that. Just reply. This is meant to be fun.
Alright, just because Rob asked me.
1. RP, in all honesty, I'm not arguing with you. I, wait for it, actually AGREE with you. IF you weren't hopped up on your bitchfit, you'd realize that.
2. All I was doing was explaining HOW those dumbshit judges could have made such a decision. I stated that I didn't necessarily AGREE with the explanation.
3. Do I think Machida won Round 3? yes. Do I myself think he won Rounds 1 and 2? not really. I could see how they could go either way.
The real enemy isn't the Mighty 'Kai. The real enemy is the BULLSHIT JUDGING.
I literally almost dropped my beer on the floor when i saw them put the belt around Machida. I've never felt like this about any fight in my entire life. I'm not even a fan of either. Thats the thing. It's not like i've been some huge Shogun fanboi or something.
I'm not a fan of either really but that doesn't stop you thinking its the worst decision ever.
Alright, just because Rob asked me.
1. RP, in all honesty, I'm not arguing with you. I, wait for it, actually AGREE with you. IF you weren't hopped up on your bitchfit, you'd realize that.
2. All I was doing was explaining HOW those dumbshit judges could have made such a decision. I stated that I didn't necessarily AGREE with the explanation.
3. Do I think Machida won Round 3? yes. Do I myself think he won Rounds 1 and 2? not really. I could see how they could go either way.
The real enemy isn't the Mighty 'Kai. The real enemy is the BULLSHIT JUDGING.
Look, i'm not a huge fan of either fighter. I've never been. I can honeslty tell you from my experience watching fights, which is alot of experience, Machida didnt win not one single round of this fight. The only round in question was the 5th. And i dont even think he won that round. The first 3 rounds where dominated...i said DOMINATED.. by Shogun. It wasnt close. Thats why i'm on such a bitch fit right now.
Vastardikai
10-25-2009, 01:56 AM
To be fair, I felt the same way about the Kimbo/Colossus stoppage.
<------------ Honestly, brother, I'm with you.
Machida has been asked about 5 times if he thought he won and he has answered the same everytime - 3 judges said he did.
So he doesn't believe it really.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 02:01 AM
I'm just mainly pissed because I was right in the middle of posting some sort of hilarious "Shogun slayed the Dragon" zinger when I heard the decision. Judges ruined my fucking comedy vibe.
Vastardikai
10-25-2009, 02:01 AM
Look, i'm not a huge fan of either fighter. I've never been. I can honeslty tell you from my experience watching fights, which is alot of experience, Machida didnt win not one single round of this fight. The only round in question was the 5th. And i dont even think he won that round. The first 3 rounds where dominated...i said DOMINATED.. by Shogun. It wasnt close. Thats why i'm on such a bitch fit right now.
Just to clear things up for in the morning:
RP scored the fight: 50-45 Shogun
'Kai scored the fight: 49-46 Shogun.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 02:02 AM
There was no point in the match were Machinda hurt him or even stunned him for that matter. Shogun outclassed him in ever aspect of the match. It was so fucking shocking when they said Machida won.
Ok? I completely agree.
All Machida had in the last two rounds were those step in knees to the body. He couldn't get any power in his hands. His legs and ribs were fucked. Zero ability to generate power from lunging or hip movement. I really think Shogun coulda dropped the hammer and finished him instead of waiting for the decision. Still, that's no excuse for the decision rendered.
Rob scored the fight: 50-45 Shogun
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 02:04 AM
Ok? I completely agree.
All Machida had in the last two rounds were those step in knees to the body. He couldn't get any power in his hands. His legs and ribs were fucked. Zero ability to generate power from lunging or hip movement. I really think Shogun coulda dropped the hammer and finished him instead of waiting for the decision. Still, that's no excuse for the decision rendered.
I don't think he saw much of a need to go for the finish, seeing as how the fight was so overwhelmingly one sided.
Vastardikai
10-25-2009, 02:05 AM
We agree on everything but on one round, which I'm happy to agree to disagree on. End of the day, Shogun was robbed.
Ol Dirty Dastard
10-25-2009, 02:06 AM
Terrible, terrible decision. Just awful. I was pulling for Machida too.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 02:07 AM
I don't think he saw much of a need to go for the finish, seeing as how the fight was so overwhelmingly one sided.
Yea I agree. I can see how in his mind it was better to take the decision than risk Machida KO'ing him if he tried to finish the fight. But the more I mull it over the more I think Shogun could have finished the fight, especially towards the end of the 4th and into the 5th. Like I said before, Machida's power generation was nonexistent by that time in the fight.
It's such a shame I'm here to post spoilers eh
Doc Hamilton scored rounds 2,3 and 4 for Machida.
:lol:
Funky Fly
10-25-2009, 02:09 AM
BREAKING NEWS
Dana says Shogun is getting an immediate rematch and he thought Shogun won.
Good fucking call. There is no getting around that.
Rob scored the fight: 50-45 Shogun
First round was debatable, but I'd say you're dead on.
Vastardikai
10-25-2009, 02:10 AM
Seriously, the Dumbshit judges need to be round up and shot.
KillerWolf
10-25-2009, 02:10 AM
Okay, everyone is a little miffed right now. You're not reading posts, and you're just making wild accusations.
I've agreed with everything everyone has said this far, except that the fight was rigged.
But I understand the anger, I'd be pissed too if I was a Shogun fan. The truth is I'm not a fan of either of these guys.
But I'm not going to fan the flames or try to douse them anymore, I'm just going to let you guys blow your stack and feel better for doing so.
I'll come back when everyone isn't so crazy.
i'm not a Shogun fan - and i'm pissed! this is a worse screw job than when Bisping got a decision over Hammil.
Funky Fly
10-25-2009, 02:11 AM
It's such a shame I'm here to post spoilers eh
Fuck it. It'd only be a spoiler if you'd said Machida won and you happened to be one of the judges.
Sherdog scored it 4-1 Rua
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 02:13 AM
:lol:
Calm down you maniacs.
The first 2 rounds were really, really, really close for mine. I though Machida quite clearly won 3 and Shogun quite clearly won 4 and 5. Welcome to a sport where you win a match based not on how you perform overall but on a round to round basis.
I don't get how Hamilton gave 4 to Machida... thats weird but I can certainly SEE how he won the first 3. It was a competitive fight and you would have to be some kind of lunatic not to see how close the first two rounds were.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 02:14 AM
Arnold Schwarzenegger needs to veto this madness!
i'm not a Shogun fan - and i'm pissed! this is a worse screw job than when Bisping got a decision over Hammil.
Akiyama and Belcher this year was worse than Bisping and Hamill.
I was at the Bisping vs. Hamill fight and just about everyone there thought Hamill won. I heard the arguements from the judges on how they scored it for Bisping and I could see their points but I didn't agree. That was a split decision and two different 29-28 scores (and Bisping did win 1 round).
Tonight Machida did not convincingly win a single round and there is no possible way you could debate he won a round convincingly. And this was a 5 round fight! 10 times worse decision.
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 02:17 AM
I'd debate he won 3 convincingly and nobody dominated 1 and 2 and they could have quite clearly gone either way. Thats a points decision right there.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 02:19 AM
This should be a lesson to any fighter to never rely on the judges to decide a match in your favor. There have been some controversial decisions before but nothing at this level. This fight is evidence that a fight can go any way when it comes to the judges. And that's just an unfortunate part of this sport.
I had Rua winning 4 rounds to 1 but I can see how it could have been 3 rounds to 2. Definitely do not think Rua won every round.
:lol:
Calm down you maniacs.
The first 2 rounds were really, really, really close for mine. I though Machida quite clearly won 3 and Shogun quite clearly won 4 and 5. Welcome to a sport where you win a match based not on how you perform overall but on a round to round basis.
I don't get how Hamilton gave 4 to Machida... thats weird but I can certainly SEE how he won the first 3. It was a competitive fight and you would have to be some kind of lunatic not to see how close the first two rounds were.
You didnt watch the fight. You can say you did, but you didnt. Anyone that actually watched the fight saw that Shogun won. You sir, did not watch the fight. Bye. Just leave the conversation. You have no clue what the fuck you're talking about.
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 02:22 AM
Maybe you should watch a replay when you wipe the tears from you eye :lol:
I gave Machida 1 and 3 and Shogun 2,4,5. I am not SHOCKED that two judges gave Machida round 2 though. It was a close round. I am a little shocked that a judge gave Machida 4 but well thats sport.
Some of you people are literally crying over a points decision in a match that was competitive as hell. Blame the system.
No really Pete Cash, you're a dumb black cock sucking liar and you didnt even watch the fight.
You wanna know the funny thing about MMA fights. You can tell who actually watched them live and who didnt by there retarded responses. I dont give a fuck what you gave Machida. All i know is that if you honeslty watched the fight ( which i'd bet my future daughters virginity that you didnt ) you wouldnt be given Machinda not one round. You sir are a naysayer. You have no fucking clue what you're even speaking about and should just leave this thread now. It's so painfully obvious you havent even seen this fight that i'm embarressed to be a TPWW poster here posting with the likes of you. Go fuck yourself and eat cock. Bye. Please leave.
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 02:26 AM
lol of course it was. The first three rounds were brilliant. If Machida wins round 1 and 3 and gets given 2 because it was inconclusive and HES THE CHAMP it doesnt matter if Shogun beats him half to death in the remaining two rounds if he can take it to decision.
This fight was decided in round 2. It was a close round. Keep on crying if you want to but the sport is judged on a round to round basis.
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 02:26 AM
No really Pete Cash, you're a dumb black cock sucking liar and you didnt even watch the fight.
You wanna know the funny thing about MMA fights. You can tell who actually watched them live and who didnt by there retarded responses. I dont give a fuck what you gave Machida. All i know is that if you honeslty watched the fight ( which i'd bet my future daughters virginity that you didnt ) you wouldnt be given Machinda not one round. You sir are a naysayer. You have no fucking clue what you're even speaking about and should just leave this thread now. It's so painfully obvious you havent even seen this fight that i'm embarressed to be a TPWW poster here posting with the likes of you. Go fuck yourself and eat cock. Bye. Please leave.
:lol: the tears I can literally taste them through the internet. Are you seriously crying over a close points decision loss.
$60,000 bonus went to Struve for best submission, Berry vs. Hardonk for best fight and Berry got best KO ($120,000 in bonuses for Berry).
Anthony Johnson would have got the Best KO but was ineligable for being a fat cunt who can't keep out of McDonalds long enough to make weight.
Did you watch the whole ppv?
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 02:29 AM
I don't think it was a complete squash but I (as well as everybody in the staples center, 95% of sherdog, and the president of the UFC) think it was definitely a one sided fight in favor of Rua. He had a masterful game plan. He almost caved Machida's legs in. A man btw, who was supposedly never supposed to even get hit. Saying this was a pretty ridiculous decision is a vast understatement.
I mean, look at the end of the fight. Machida knew that he lost. Dana was about to award the belt to Rua. lol, come on.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 02:29 AM
All i know is that if you honeslty watched the fight ( which i'd bet my future daughters virginity that you didnt ) you wouldnt be given Machinda not one round.
Gotta disagree. I gave him the first. All Shogun from there on tho.
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 02:33 AM
Everyone knows the method for judging in MMA is a bit zany. They obviously weighted Machida stopping Shoguns takedowns quite heavily in rounds 1 and 2. Machida also quite clearly won a few exchanges in round 2 and 3 (the round I gave easiest to Machida)
Like I understand the emotion and all but Shogun certainly didn't do enough to win the fight. It went to points and the close round went to the champ. If Shogun was the defending champ he would have won round 2.
Machida never won any exchanges. What were you watching? He wasn't even hitting most of the shots he was throwing. It was the worst striking performance of Machida's career.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 02:37 AM
http://www.justin.tv/nwchd
There's a replay of the show if anyone wants to watch it again for further debate. Right now they're about to start Round 2 of Velazquez/Rothwell. So the Machida/Shogun fight will be starting real soon.
Pete
Name 5 celebs they showed during the ppv.
Pete
Name 5 celebs they showed during the ppv.
And not Michael Clarke Duncan or David Spade being they go to every show.
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 02:40 AM
:lol: I thought Machida landed some nice knees on the inside and would counter punch reasonably well to the leg kicks in the early rounds. He also stopped a few takedown attempts giving him the MYTHICAL octagon control.
Like I said blame the system. Machida being the champ won him round 2 and possibly round 1. In a championship fight two rounds that close tend to go to the champ.
And not Michael Clarke Duncan or David Spade being they go to every show.
yah they're at every ufc ppv. They dont count.
Being the champ? Get tae fuck ye dick.
This "you have to beat the champion" bullshit is just that. Fucking bullshit. You beat "the champ" by winning the round. If you score the fight 48-47 to the challenger, you don't turn around and say "oh well the champion won because he never really beat the champion".
fucking nonsense.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 02:44 AM
The feed I posted is being fast forwarded to the Machida/Shogun fight. Starting literally right now.
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 02:45 AM
They don't turn around and change it. They just tend to give closer rounds to the champ. That is human nature and happens with a lot of shit. Perception does matter in judging.
I quite clearly listed the areas in which Machida where the judges could have given Machida the first three rounds. I mean you guys are acting as if it was a slaughter. The first three rounds were close. So they could go either way :lol:
I mean you people have literally gone mental. I thought Shogun won the fight through winning round 2 BUT it was close and close tends to go the champs.
redoneja
10-25-2009, 02:45 AM
Definitely going to watch it again to look at it round by round for more clarity, even though there is no doubt in my mind Shogun won.
If this was a closer fight, i wouldnt be so outspoken about the decision, but the fact that Shogun dominated this fight every single round, I have to be outspoke. I have no choice. I cant sit silent after what i saw live.
They don't turn around and change it. They just tend to give closer rounds to the champ. That is human nature and happens with a lot of shit. Perception does matter in judging.
I quite clearly listed the areas in which Machida where the judges could have given Machida the first three rounds. I mean you guys are acting as if it was a slaughter. The first three rounds were close. So they could go either way :lol:
I mean you people have literally gone mental. I thought Shogun won the fight through winning round 2 BUT it was close and close tends to go the champs.
You didnt even watch the fight. So stop.
Again, fuck this "beating the champion" bullshit. The ways you win a fight are by KO, submission or fucking points decision. Winning a decision is just as good as a stoppage. Is the moral of the story "in order to win the title, you have to stop the champion"?
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 02:48 AM
No you are outspoken about the decision because you are an emotional faggot who suffers from a collection of personality disorders. You are well known as a complete wreck of a human so don't use your RAGE as proof either way. You are just stupid.
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 02:49 AM
Again, fuck this "beating the champion" bullshit. The ways you win a fight are by KO, submission or fucking points decision. Winning a decision is just as good as a stoppage. Is the moral of the story "in order to win the title, you have to stop the champion"?
I don't think that is necessarily true but I do think close rounds will go to the champ 9/10.
No you are outspoken about the decision because you are an emotional faggot who suffers from a collection of personality disorders. You are well known as a complete wreck of a human so don't use your RAGE as proof either way. You are just stupid.
name 5 celebs that were shown in the crowd during this ppv.
Bullshit. If they did, Rampage would still be the champion for a start.
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 02:54 AM
Bullshit. If they did, Rampage would still be the champion for a start.
As I said 9/10 not every time.
They were close rounds. Shogun didn't really do a lot in them. The judges gave the points to Machida based on stopping the takedown attempts and the knees on the inside. I am honestly shocked there are people that outraged that rounds 1 and 2 could have gone to Machida. They were hella close. I thought 2 went to Shogun and 1 went to Machida personally.
I also love RP spinning out of control. Are you going to commit suicide over this ??
As I said 9/10 not every time.
They were close rounds. Shogun didn't really do a lot in them. The judges gave the points to Machida based on stopping the takedown attempts and the knees on the inside. I am honestly shocked there are people that outraged that rounds 1 and 2 could have gone to Machida. They were hella close. I thought 2 went to Shogun and 1 went to Machida personally.
I also love RP spinning out of control. Are you going to commit suicide over this ??
I love how you read results and all of a sudden think you're an expert when you probably have never ordered a MMA ppv in your entire life. Please go somewhere else. No one here cares'or respects your dumb retarded opinions. If i wanted opinions from someone who reads results from a website, i'd go to ESPN. Get the fuck out you dumb moronic loser. Go back to casual forum and pretend to yourself that you're so fucking funny. Bye.
Someone still can't name the celebs.
your time is up
Anthony Kedis
Chris Tucker
Turtle from Entorage
Jeremy Pivens
Demi Moor
Ashton Kutcher
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 03:04 AM
lol why would I want to play RP game. He is ranting like a lunatic. I enjoy trolling on the internet. I am not going to give him something to stop him ranting. I like his breakdowns. They amuse me.
You two need to face facts. Those first two rounds could have gone either way and they went to Machida.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 03:07 AM
lol why would I want to play RP game. He is ranting like a lunatic. I enjoy trolling on the internet. I am not going to give him something to stop him ranting. I like his breakdowns. They amuse me.
You two need to face facts. Those first two rounds could have gone either way and they went to Machida.
As stupid as the little game was, I think they proved that you didn't actually watch the fight. Watch the replay.
Props for admitting that you're a troll though.
lol why would I want to play RP game. He is ranting like a lunatic. I enjoy trolling on the internet. I am not going to give him something to stop him ranting. I like his breakdowns. They amuse me.
You two need to face facts. Those first two rounds could have gone either way and they went to Machida.
FAct: You didnt watch the fights
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 03:10 AM
As stupid as the little game was, I think they proved that you didn't actually watch the fight. Watch the replay.
Props for admitting that you're a troll though.
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
Narc buddy I did watch the fight that is why I can so quite clearly articulate why the first 2 rounds may have gone to Machida. I can only assume the rest of you guys accidentally had a tape of Silva/Forest on loop put in or something. I never seen so much wrongness.
You people can't even admit the first two rounds were close. Including one that favoured Machida. Are you people for real :lol:
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 03:10 AM
FAct: You didnt watch the fights
FACT: you are wrong about every opinion you hold.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 03:15 AM
You keep using logically fallacious arguments to support your claims. This might work in the company of the idiots you typically surround yourself with, but it doesn't work here. Come up with something other than "Machida CLEARLY won" and "Are you serious?" and get back to me.
you didnt watch the fights
FACT: you are wrong about every opinion you hold.
How can he be factually wrong about an opinion?
It's really pathetic to see someone try so hard to convince other people that he watched fights when its so obvious he didnt. I hope Pete Cash finds a real life .
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 03:18 AM
Rob, he was begging the question. He's trolling.
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 03:18 AM
You keep using logically fallacious arguments to support your claims. This might work in the company of the idiots you typically surround yourself with, but it doesn't work here. Come up with something other than "Machida CLEARLY won" and "Are you serious?" and get back to me.
Are you mistaking my comments to wind RP up in casual with what I posted here.
As I said Machida won the early exchanges in the first and from memory escaped a clinch attempt.
In the second he fought off a few takedown attempts and counted with a few good left hands.
The entire match was decided on those two rounds. I certainly am not shocked that Machida was given them.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 03:25 AM
Well, your whole logic on the fight being decided in two rounds leads me to believe that you don't watch MMA on a regular basis. It's a pretty silly argument, especially since the fight was 5 rounds. I don't think the "Champion has the edge" deal you're going on about can really be supported either. I could name many fights that counter both of those argument ( Nate Quarry vs Crazy Tim Credeur and Forrest vs Rampage immediately come to mind)
Rob, he was begging the question. He's trolling.
Works both ways :)
Don't confuse me with the little hitler mod on here. I understand jokes and trolling
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 03:29 AM
I wouldn't normally wind someone up in a SERIOUS discussion forum but he literally flipped out and started accusing me of not watching just because I hold the opinion that it was not a rigged robbery.
How could I seriously resist ??? I mean seriously
I accused you of not watching because you didnt watch.
I wouldn't normally wind someone up in a SERIOUS discussion forum but he literally flipped out and started accusing me of not watching just because I hold the opinion that it was not a rigged robbery.
How could I seriously resist ??? I mean seriously
Did you watch?
did you?
I mean seriously?
So the UFC's honeymoon period of not being 'dirty' like Boxing is over then:-\
Fabien Barthez
10-25-2009, 04:21 AM
I thought Machida won.
Round 2.
KillerWolf
10-25-2009, 04:25 AM
if you have stated in this thread, in any way, shape or form, that "you can see" how the fight could have legitimatly gone to Machida, then you either:
A: didnt watch the fight...
or B: wish to lend yourself credibility by agreeing with the so-called experts [judges], only proving that you lack confidence in your own sensory perception when it comes to judging a fight.
most likely it is both A and B.
Impact!
10-25-2009, 04:36 AM
Wow...that was unbelievable...
Sonnen will be upset though, it showed up his win against Okami
Reavant
10-25-2009, 04:57 AM
I think shogun won but stop saying shit was fucking rigged cuz that means if shogun KOed machida then they would have still given the match to machida so stop that shit. judges are fucking retarded and they like to either side with the champion or the bigger name and in this fight id say that they went with both and ended up giving it to machida... thats how it fuckin is, it sucks, oh well. thats why you need to finish fights.
KillerWolf
10-25-2009, 04:58 AM
So the UFC's honeymoon period of not being 'dirty' like Boxing is over then:-\
it ended for me after the Bisping / Hammil fight. that one, i could see blaming biased local judges giving the win to the hometown hero.
then the Forrest / Rampage fight. that one was pretty bad because i only give Forrest round 2 in that fight, but i wasnt suprised by the decision just given the marketablity of Forrest Griffin. Forrest is a huge personallity in the sport and was probably the most popular fighter in the UFC at the time. and, lets be honest here, when it comes to fighting sports - in this country, there is still something to be said for being white, when it comes to getting over with the casual fans. sorry.
but even in that fight, the action was close enough that i could at least question my own sensory perception...along with half the people who saw the fight......and 90% of real MMA fans...:nono:
but now this. this wasnt even close. personally, i think Shogun won every round. and i dont even like Shogun. my MMA fandom doesnt extend to Pride. i've only seen Shogun in the UFC. so to me, Shogun has just been some over-rated dude who has looked like shit since arriving in the UFC. of course, he looked much improved when he beat Chuck Liddell. and tonight he was the best in the world at 205 lbs, solving the Machida Enigma and anyone who says they aggree with tonights decision is just making themself look stupid.
why would Dana and the UFC fix a decision though? marketability maybe. it seemed that Machida was getting over with the fans, which was natural since he seemed basically unbeatable, and almost untouchable. Machida is a handsome dude, so i can see how he might draw more female fans. or maybe just the fact that if there had been a just decision tonight, no LHW champion would have successfully defended the LHW Title since Rampage Jackson, 3 champions ago. sounds a little paranoid and far feched? it probably is. it's probably just a problem of incredibly blind and retarded judges. if that's the case, then i think tonight those judges have hurt the credibility of this sport - and rightly so.
why would Dana and the UFC fix a decision though?
To hype up the instant rematch:|
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 08:22 AM
The UFC don't pick the judges guys. Lets settle down with the conspiracies. Why would it be in the UFCs interest to rig a fight for Machida. Yes, thats a man to build a company around *jumps backwards, puts crowd to sleep* :lol:
FightMetric (http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html): 49-47 Rua
Yahoo Sports / Cagewriter (http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cagewriter/post/Machida-escapes-with-belt-after-five-round-tacti?urn=mma,197998): 48-47 Rua
BloodyElbow (http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/10/25/1099170/ufc-104-results-mauricio-shogun): 48-47 Rua
USAToday (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/mma/post/2009/10/ufc-104-play-by-play/1?csp=34): 48-47 Rua, 49-46 Rua
Savage Science (http://blog.thesavagescience.com/2009/09/20/ufc-104-machida-vs-shogun-live-coverage): 49-46 Rua
ESPN / Jake Rossen (http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=4588769): 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMA Fanhouse / Michael David Smith (http://mma.fanhouse.com/2009/10/25/ufc-104-lyoto-machida-beats-mauricio-shogun-rua-by-decision/): 48-47 Rua
411mania.com (http://411mania.com): 48-47 Rua
CagePotato (http://www.cagepotato.com/ufc-104-liveblog): 49-46 Rua
MMATorch (http://www.mmatorch.com/artman2/publish/UFC_PPVs_6/article_3681.shtml): 48-47 Rua
MMAJunkie (http://mmajunkie.com/news/16602/ufc-104-live-results-and-play-by-play.mma): 49-46 or 48-47 Rua
MMAMania (http://mmamania.com/2009/08/25/ufc-104-results-and-live-fight-coverage-for-machida-vs-shogun-on-oct-24-in-los-angeles/): 50-45 Rua
5 Ounces of Pain (http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2009/10/25/shogun-robbed-in-california-rua-batters-machida-en-route-to-unanimous-decision-loss-at-ufc-104/): Rua (no score given)
Fightlinker (http://www.fightlinker.com/machida-lost-but-won.mma): Rua (no score given)
MMAConvert (http://www.mmaconvert.com/2009/10/24/ufc-104-machida-vs-shogun-results-wrap-up/): Rua ("Machida was given a gift")
ProMMA.Info (http://promma.info/index.php/2009/10/24/ufc-104-play-by-play-commentary-results/): 50-45 Rua
Sherdog (http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/ufc-104-results-and-live-play-by-play-20487):
Jordan Breen -- 48-47 Rua
Brian Knapp -- 48-47 Rua
Mike Fridley -- 50-45 Rua
Sports Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ben_fowlkes/10/25/UFC.104/index.html) (thanks jamers):
Ben Fowlkes - Rua ("They say you have to clearly beat the champion if you want to take his belt. Mauricio "Shogun" Rua seemed to have done just that at UFC 104 on Saturday night, but the mere fact that UFC light heavyweight champ Lyoto Machida was still conscious at the end was apparently enough for the judges to give him the victory")
Joss Gross (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/josh_gross/10/24/Machida.Rua/index.html?eref=sircrc): 48-47 Rua
I copied and pasted this from a poster at rajahs who was kind enough to collect all this. While noone did give the fight to Machida. There were a shitload of 48-47 scorelines. It all came down to that second round as I said.
Pete Cash
10-25-2009, 08:23 AM
Double post.
*scores fight 48-47 Machida. Collects bribe money*
Super V
10-25-2009, 10:32 AM
lol, Fags.
Impact!
10-25-2009, 11:12 AM
Rewatched the fight, still can't believe it. Rua V Machida will most likely Main event 109 (or 108 if Anderson isn't cleared to fight Belfort)
Savio
10-25-2009, 11:14 AM
Machida seriously needs to vacate the title. It's the only way he's going to save face. Granted it's not his fault, but people are always going to call bullshit on that win.I wouldn't say that, but I would state a quick rematch.
Fabien Barthez
10-25-2009, 11:27 AM
To hype up the instant rematch:|
Have a word with yourself RP. There are 5 or 6 bigger drawing LHW's to go against either one. The last thing they wanted was to have to do this twice.
I had it 4-1 to Rua, but it wasn't the shut out you girls are making out. Rogan and Goldberg were talking up Rua's dominance, and for every shot he was landing, he was eating an undiscussed counter. there was a few take down efforts that Machida managed to avoid, and thats a point to the defender in scoring.
Anyway, Torres has just scored, so I will argue about this later.
Savio
10-25-2009, 11:36 AM
while it lasts:
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qc20PU9ENF0&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Qc20PU9ENF0&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
redoneja
10-25-2009, 11:47 AM
I had it 4-1 to Rua, but it wasn't the shut out you girls are making out. Rogan and Goldberg were talking up Rua's dominance, and for every shot he was landing, he was eating an undiscussed counter.
Yea that pretty much suns up how I feel about the fight, after watching it twice. It wasn't a dominant throughout like GSP over Alves. But Shogun definitely won more rounds than Machida. I think it was clearly 4-1 and a 3-2 decision is pushing it, regardless of how close the first two rounds were.
I think it's a shame that we're spending all this time talking about the controversial decision instead of the fight itself. Shogun fought a beautiful fight. I still stand by my assessment that this fight was more traditional than MMA. Great fight, tremendous fight. Really even through the first two and then Shogun started to take it away. Would love to watch these two fight again to see how Machida adapts his strategy and how Shogun would adapt to Machida's adaption.
The Mask
10-25-2009, 12:01 PM
i think anyone saying it was dominant is overexaggerating, but shogun was obviously the aggressor and did by far the most damage. im gonna watch the fight again later and pay a bit more attention.
Fabien Barthez
10-25-2009, 12:14 PM
Watch it without the commentary. Poison minds them two do.
Nark Order
10-25-2009, 12:19 PM
Watch it without the commentary. Poison minds them two do.
What about the entire sold out Staples Center that watched it without commentary?
http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html
Rua outstruck Machida clearly in every round. Stats prove it.
Stickman
10-25-2009, 01:22 PM
Can somebody post the entire fight?
Fabien Barthez
10-25-2009, 01:34 PM
What about the entire sold out Staples Center that watched it without commentary?
I've already said how I scored it, just saying you would probably have Machida a little closer on a few rounds than you do in retrospect. Rua deffinately won the last 3 for me, which makes it hainus. Round 4 was Rua's best of the fight, and Hamilton scored it to Machida.
Hamilton and Peoples are probably the 2 longest standing MMA judges who have regularly covered UFC. It's weird.
Stickman
10-25-2009, 02:22 PM
Ok, so I havne't been able to see round 5 yet but I can see the problem with this fight.
Round 1 and 3 were pretty close and I think it was round 2 that Machida won. I think when a round is too close to call the judges will lean towards the champion. Shogun did push the action more but I don't think he landed more and being stuffed on every take down will give Machida the advantage. So assuming Rua won round 5 I can see him winning 49-46 or losing 48-47 and that is where the judges come into play. I'm surprised this wasn't a split decision but I can understand the outcome.
Guys, calm down a little bit. It was a very tough fight to score. Remember, being on tv we get the best view of the action, the judges don't necessarily; the ref could be in the way, might not see a punch land, or see a punch land that actually didn't. The issue here is it was left in the judges hands. Neither man really seemed to go balls out looking for the knockout and that makes so many rounds go either way.
The scoring system in MMA sucks. I dont' think judging a fight round by round with a 10 point must is the way to go. But since somebody must be given a 10 and sometimes it's too close to call, you get outcomes like this. Machida won the fight based on the scoring rules, Shogun won the fight based on scoring the fight as a whole.
IC Champion
10-25-2009, 02:37 PM
Yeah I had Machida winning a round, MAYBE 2 if you want to be generous. Rua controlled the fight and dominated Machida times making him look helpless. I don't know what fight the judges watched.
IC Champion
10-25-2009, 02:39 PM
http://fightmetric.com/fights/Machida-Shogun.html
Rua outstruck Machida clearly in every round. Stats prove it.
Rua was robbed, Machida was all banged up after the fight, and probably has a couple cracked ribs.
Savio
10-25-2009, 02:54 PM
Can somebody post the entire fight?the user who posted the video I showed has the entire fight under his page
Reavant
10-25-2009, 02:57 PM
<object width="560" height="340"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/nuDZwRN_O6M&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/nuDZwRN_O6M&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="560" height="340"></embed></object>
Vastardikai
10-25-2009, 02:59 PM
:lol:
Calm down you maniacs.
The first 2 rounds were really, really, really close for mine. I though Machida quite clearly won 3 and Shogun quite clearly won 4 and 5. Welcome to a sport where you win a match based not on how you perform overall but on a round to round basis.
I don't get how Hamilton gave 4 to Machida... thats weird but I can certainly SEE how he won the first 3. It was a competitive fight and you would have to be some kind of lunatic not to see how close the first two rounds were.
Same here. I had the first two rounds were close, but I leaned towards Shogun on both. I was far from happy that Machida won, but I am pissed at the judges, not Machida or Dana. Cecil Peoples has a reputation of not even WATCHING the fight half the time, as pictures have shown him, a Judge for multiple Athletic Commissions, talking on his cell phone with his back to the cage. wtf.
Hamilton I haven't heard as much about, but he's made some bad calls.
The system needs to be fixed, the fight wasn't.
Reavant
10-25-2009, 03:18 PM
SERIOUSLY ITS NOT RIGGED!
What the fuck dont you guys that are saying that get? UFC has NO say in what the judges do.
When a round is close the judges will side with the person who is either A. the champion (machida, sylvia vs arlovski 3) or B. the bigger name (couture over sylvia, forrest over rampage). They also remember past performances and I gaurantee you that they saw some of Shogun's past shit performances.
Lets not forget that these are people making judgement calls, not robots and decisions are not made via fan votes.
KillerWolf
10-25-2009, 03:53 PM
SERIOUSLY ITS NOT RIGGED!
What the fuck dont you guys that are saying that get? UFC has NO say in what the judges do.
When a round is close the judges will side with the person who is either A. the champion (machida, sylvia vs arlovski 3) or B. the bigger name (couture over sylvia, forrest over rampage). They also remember past performances and I gaurantee you that they saw some of Shogun's past shit performances.
Lets not forget that these are people making judgement calls, not robots and decisions are not made via fan votes.
you say that - and youre probably right. but, you saw the fight. i mean, there's just no fuckin way. which makes it hard not to consider things like the amount of money riding on Machida (the 4-1 favorite), just as an example.
Reavant
10-25-2009, 04:00 PM
umm YOU say THAT which makes it hard not to consider that you are retarded.
Do you realize how much money UFC dropped to get Shogun into the UFC??? They want him to do well to finally get a good return on their investment of him. If the UFC was fixing fights, they would give it to him so they could hype him and then make him even more marketable.
Funky Fly
10-25-2009, 04:08 PM
Shogun is actually much more marketable than Machida. Shogun is explosive, with vicious stand up, submissions and ground and pound. Machida is elusive, and has only recently taken to finishing opponents.
Reavant
10-25-2009, 04:28 PM
Exactly... up until he KOed Thiago Silva, nobody liked to watch him.
I dont get it. You have all seen shit decisions before. How, by now can you be so ignorant towards how everything works?
The state athletic commissions appoint refs and judges, not the UFC. This is because if the UFC did appoint them, they could fix fights and THAT would be a FEDERAL CRIME.
Ol Dirty Dastard
10-25-2009, 04:37 PM
Exactly... up until he KOed Thiago Silva, nobody liked to watch him.
I dont get it. You have all seen shit decisions before. How, by now can you be so ignorant towards how everything works?
The state athletic commissions appoint refs and judges, not the UFC. This is because if the UFC did appoint them, they could fix fights and THAT would be a FEDERAL CRIME.
This
I think shogun won but stop saying shit was fucking rigged cuz that means if shogun KOed machida then they would have still given the match to machida so stop that shit. judges are fucking retarded and they like to either side with the champion or the bigger name and in this fight id say that they went with both and ended up giving it to machida... thats how it fuckin is, it sucks, oh well. thats why you need to finish fights.
This.
How many times has it happenned in boxing.
KillerWolf
10-25-2009, 05:20 PM
[QUOTE]umm YOU say THAT which makes it hard not to consider that you are retarded. :nono:
i agreed with you about the Forrest/Rampage fight - that the judges leaned in favor of the guy who was more the most "over" guy in the UFC. i'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist. what i'm saying is we saw the fight. the action wasnt even close. so, is it really naive of me just to consider the possibility that three experts who came up with such a flagrant, outrageous judgement may have been acting on behalf of someone's interest? possibly even their own? is it not possible?
Do you realize how much money UFC dropped to get Shogun into the UFC??? They want him to do well to finally get a good return on their investment of him. If the UFC was fixing fights, they would give it to him so they could hype him and then make him even more marketable.
when i said "money riding on Machida" i meant in a 4 to 1 favorite, gambling sense - not a time and investment sense.
http://ka.rg.free.fr/wde.gif
Is this the reaction of a man who thought he won?
KillerWolf
10-25-2009, 05:46 PM
Rob, i dont know if that was directed at me or not, so let me just be clear that i'm not accusing Machida or anyone in particular of anything. i'm just saying that it seems kinda suspicious that such a one-sided fight would have been scored that way. not saying that it's the first time it's happened, but it is the first time i've seen anything that flagrant in a UFC title match.
KillerWolf
10-25-2009, 05:50 PM
one thing's for sure now. the Machida Mistique has been broken. Shogun showed how to beat him (by forgetting about the head, basically). i wont speak for the MMA viewing public, but my perception now is that someone like Anderson Silva would crush Machida.
Vastardikai
10-25-2009, 08:35 PM
what KW said.
I stand by GSP as #1 lb. for lb., though.
DaveBrawl
10-25-2009, 09:59 PM
So we can all agree that Anderson Silva isn't scared of the latest flavor of the month this time either?
Vastardikai
10-25-2009, 10:00 PM
I'm fine with that.
Reavant
10-25-2009, 10:38 PM
[QUOTE=Reavant;2786758]
:nono:
so, is it really naive of me just to consider the possibility that three experts who came up with such a flagrant, outrageous judgement may have been acting on behalf of someone's interest? possibly even their own? is it not possible?
when i said "money riding on Machida" i meant in a 4 to 1 favorite, gambling sense - not a time and investment sense.
YES! Yes it is naive on your part to think that because that would involve many different people to agree on it and that means it would be easier to proove foul play because the more people that are involved, the easier it is to get information. And I knew what you meant on the 4-1 on machida, but I guess you forgot that rigging a fight which has implications on that 4-1 betting lines IS A FEDERAL CRIME! and if theres ever any indication of foul play it will be investigated like a terrorist threat and they will be caught.
Reavant
10-25-2009, 10:42 PM
Rob, i dont know if that was directed at me or not, so let me just be clear that i'm not accusing Machida or anyone in particular of anything. i'm just saying that it seems kinda suspicious that such a one-sided fight would have been scored that way. not saying that it's the first time it's happened, but it is the first time i've seen anything that flagrant in a UFC title match.
Also if people wanted to make money, they make the decision for Shogun since the odds were so lop-sided against him. Since the judges have all the power in terms of deciding a fight, if they were to fix a fight, they would fix it in the way for shogun because they would make 4 TIMES the amount of what they bet you fucking retard.
It is clearly obvious that you do not think with common sense or have any idea how anything from fighting to betting works so it would be in your best interest to shut up about it because you sound like a stupid conspiracy theorist who sounds more and more ignorant with every post.
Johnny McNasty
10-25-2009, 11:13 PM
Have to say I agree with everyone in here on the Shogun/Machida fight, well everyone except the conspiracy whackos lol. I personally had Shogun winning the fight overall with the more aggressive striking, and with the most damage done. But it wasn't a blowout like people are making it to be. A lot of rounds where really close, and I can see them being awarded in Machida's favor. That is why they always say don't leave it up to the judges though, because you never know how they will score something.
Either way a rematch is a must. I think that their next fight will be amazing, especially considering all the hype from the controversy, which is justifiable in my opinion.
Reavant
10-25-2009, 11:36 PM
If they do a rematch, they have to do it on a card with lesnar on it or else noone will buy it.
Reavant
10-25-2009, 11:51 PM
<TABLE class=tborder border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=4 width="100%" align=center><TBODY id=collapseobj_usercp_reputation><TR><TD class=alt2>http://tpww.net/forums/images/reputation/reputation_neg.gif</TD><TD id=p27876921183 class=alt1Active width="50%">Shogun wins the 205lbs... (http://tpww.net/forums/showthread.php?p=2787692#post2787692) </TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap>10-25-2009 10:35 PM</TD><TD class=alt1 noWrap>KillerWolf (http://tpww.net/forums/member.php?u=1183) </TD><TD class=alt2 width="50%">who do you think you are calling me a retard and shit. try listening to what im trying to say. i'm assuming you only talk to people this way on these message boards, right? act like a person.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I just thought I should reply to this here too, Yes I would react the same way to anyone who would time after time say and repeat ignorant bull shit over and over. If you dont know how things work or what is going on at all, then leave your thoughts out of it.
Perhaps YOU should try listening to what you, yourself is saying. Then again perhaps there is a language barrier where I am trying to listen in english all the while you are speaking in Dumbass.:y:
KillerWolf
10-26-2009, 12:13 AM
[QUOTE]Also if people wanted to make money, they make the decision for Shogun since the odds were so lop-sided against him.
yeah, i know that's where the long money would have been, but then, no one gave Shogun a chance. i'm not saying that the decision was rigged for the purpose of gambling. i'm not saying that they necessarilly had to have been rigged. im just saying that i find it very suspicious that three judges would render a decision that completely flies in the face of what EVERYONE saw. i've seen this kind of thing before in boxing, and i would say it was fair enough then to say that the decision was rigged (for the purpose of keeping a big-name fighter's credibility intact after losing a warm up match leading to a "big-money" match-up against another big-name opponent).
Since the judges have all the power in terms of deciding a fight, if they were to fix a fight, they would fix it in the way for shogun because they would make 4 TIMES the amount of what they bet obviously then, they didnt bet on Shogun. look, i know the gambling scenario is very unlikely - it's just a place to start. all i'm saying is THAT decision was beyond stupid or inept. BIASED, i think sounds a little more accurate.
you fucking retard. uh huh. so, that's how it's gonna be? i may have you confused with someone else, but arent you an amateur MMA fighter? got a couple of ameteur fights under your belt? that must make you a pretty bad dude relative to being on these forums, right? because you sure do sound like a little punk to me when you show such a lack of emotional control - and such anger. why? you dont agree with what i'm saying? so far as i can tell we can all only speculate. if you have some information that might convince me that there was no bias in what we can all agree was a flagrantly "wrong" decision, i'd like to hear it. but this: (:rant:) aint gonna convince me.
It is clearly obvious that you do not think with common sense or have any idea how anything from fighting to betting works so it would be in your best interest to shut up about it because you sound like a stupid conspiracy theorist who sounds more and more ignorant with every post. clearly obvious is it? since common sense is something i apparently lack, i'll have to borrow some of yours. does your common sense tell you that three judges, who saw the same fight as you and me, were
A: profoundly blind and inept
or
B: biased
?
Impact!
10-26-2009, 12:50 AM
Wow
KillerWolf
10-26-2009, 01:14 AM
clearly obvious is it? since common sense is something i apparently lack, i'll have to borrow some of yours. does your common sense tell you that three judges, who saw the same fight as you and me, were
A: profoundly blind and inept
or
B: biased
?
just answer this question and we'll leave it at that. A or B ?
NoJabbaNoBogRoll
10-26-2009, 01:18 AM
Here we go, I'm about to watch it again.
Round One: Too close to call, as far as I'm concerned.
Round Two: Not one-sided at all, but I give Machida the edge in this one.
Round Three: I think Machida took this round, definitely.
Round Four: Shogun landed much more consistently, so I give him this one.
Round Five: Machida looked tired. Definitely a Shogun round.
Conclusion: Coin toss on the first round, for me, decides the winner. Excellent technical fight. I was very impressed with Machida's takedown defence, and knees. As for Shogun, his kicks looked like they wore Machida down.
You're free to ignore my opinion, since I've only been watching this sport for a year, but there it is.
I'll get out of here, before RP comes back. :lol:
Reavant
10-26-2009, 01:19 AM
I think shogun won but stop saying shit was fucking rigged cuz that means if shogun KOed machida then they would have still given the match to machida so stop that shit. judges are fucking retarded and they like to either side with the champion or the bigger name and in this fight id say that they went with both and ended up giving it to machida... thats how it fuckin is, it sucks, oh well. thats why you need to finish fights. ^ close fights go that way
but now this. this wasnt even close. personally, i think Shogun won every round. and i dont even like Shogun. my MMA fandom doesnt extend to Pride. i've only seen Shogun in the UFC. so to me, Shogun has just been some over-rated dude who has looked like shit since arriving in the UFC. of course, he looked much improved when he beat Chuck Liddell. and tonight he was the best in the world at 205 lbs, solving the Machida Enigma and anyone who says they aggree with tonights decision is just making themself look stupid.
why would Dana and the UFC fix a decision though? marketability maybe. it seemed that Machida was getting over with the fans, which was natural since he seemed basically unbeatable, and almost untouchable. Machida is a handsome dude, so i can see how he might draw more female fans. or maybe just the fact that if there had been a just decision tonight, no LHW champion would have successfully defended the LHW Title since Rampage Jackson, 3 champions ago. sounds a little paranoid and far feched? it probably is.
ummm whats your definition of a blow out then because the first three rounds were definitly close enough to go either way.... (you know they score by round right?)
clearly theres some bias but whatever, they turn in the score after each round not the end of the fight, so they dont score on momentum of the match, just on their feelings at the time they turn in the round cards... and seeing as how the judges side with champions/big names it shouldnt suprise you that maybe 1, 2, and 3 were close enough for them to throw them to machida (i too think its BS but thats how it is)
yes every reason is stupid and not thought out... moving on...
UFC has NO say in what the judges do.
When a round is close the judges will side with the person who is either A. the champion (machida, sylvia vs arlovski 3) or B. the bigger name (couture over sylvia, forrest over rampage). They also remember past performances and I gaurantee you that they saw some of Shogun's past shit performances.
Lets not forget that these are people making judgement calls, not robots and decisions are not made via fan votes.
you say that - and youre probably right. but, you saw the fight. i mean, there's just no fuckin way. which makes it hard not to consider things like the amount of money riding on Machida (the 4-1 favorite), just as an example.
Here YOU are making a judgement call on the fight just like the judges except your doing it looking back at the whole fight where as they turned their cards in after each round. then you try and bring up a new idea that if you thought through, you would realize is completely idiotic but i will explain that a little later
Do you realize how much money UFC dropped to get Shogun into the UFC??? They want him to do well to finally get a good return on their investment of him. If the UFC was fixing fights, they would give it to him so they could hype him and then make him even more marketable.
apparently you didnt read this or you dont "get" contracts or money or anything at all...
Exactly... up until he KOed Thiago Silva, nobody liked to watch him.
I dont get it. You have all seen shit decisions before. How, by now can you be so ignorant towards how everything works?
The state athletic commissions appoint refs and judges, not the UFC. This is because if the UFC did appoint them, they could fix fights and THAT would be a FEDERAL CRIME.
^driving the point home...
:nono:
i agreed with you about the Forrest/Rampage fight - that the judges leaned in favor of the guy who was more the most "over" guy in the UFC. i'm not some crazy conspiracy theorist. what i'm saying is we saw the fight. the action wasnt even close. so, is it really naive of me just to consider the possibility that three experts who came up with such a flagrant, outrageous judgement may have been acting on behalf of someone's interest? possibly even their own? is it not possible?
when i said "money riding on Machida" i meant in a 4 to 1 favorite, gambling sense - not a time and investment sense.
LOL at whats in red... oh and in terms of it "not being close" again YOU are simply making a judgment call... perhaps even the right one, but then again your going by the entire fight and seeing what happened in the 4th and 5th and compairing that to 123 and seeing how rua "might have" edged out those rounds, but in real time scoring the way the judges do and how they side with one fighter over the other it should not suprise you.
but here was my reply to this post just so you can see it again...
YES! Yes it is naive on your part to think that because that would involve many different people to agree on it and that means it would be easier to proove foul play because the more people that are involved, the easier it is to get information. And I knew what you meant on the 4-1 on machida, but I guess you forgot that rigging a fight which has implications on that 4-1 betting lines IS A FEDERAL CRIME! and if theres ever any indication of foul play it will be investigated like a terrorist threat and they will be caught.
did you read this or did you see a giant block of text and just say 'fuck it'?
then this...
Also if people wanted to make money, they make the decision for Shogun since the odds were so lop-sided against him. Since the judges have all the power in terms of deciding a fight, if they were to fix a fight, they would fix it in the way for shogun because they would make 4 TIMES the amount of what they bet you fucking retard.
It is clearly obvious that you do not think with common sense or have any idea how anything from fighting to betting works so it would be in your best interest to shut up about it because you sound like a stupid conspiracy theorist who sounds more and more ignorant with every post.
yeah, i know that's where the long money would have been, but then, no one gave Shogun a chance. i'm not saying that the decision was rigged for the purpose of gambling. [then why bring this up??????????] i'm not saying that they necessarilly had to have been rigged. im just saying that i find it very suspicious that three judges would render a decision that completely flies in the face of what EVERYONE saw. i've seen this kind of thing before in boxing, and i would say it was fair enough then to say that the decision was rigged (for the purpose of keeping a big-name fighter's credibility intact after losing a warm up match leading to a "big-money" match-up against another big-name opponent).
see thats how fixing a contest based on gambling lines work... you go with the long money. Not for the sake of just getting more money for yourself, but also taking all the money of the people who went, in this case, for machida.
umm who is the big money match that this was a warm up for? Rampage? Oh yea he retired... Rashad? Oh yea machida beat him... anderson silva? oh yea theyre friends and wont fight... wanderlei? oh yea he has lost 5 of the last 6 and is dropping to 185... chuck? oh yea he lost to rua and the closest thing to training has been dancing... do I need to keep going?
obviously then, they didnt bet on Shogun. look, i know the gambling scenario is very unlikely - it's just a place to start. all i'm saying is THAT decision was beyond stupid or inept. BIASED, i think sounds a little more accurate.
its very unlikely but a place to start? if its THAT unlikely then it has no ground to start on.
uh huh. so, that's how it's gonna be? i may have you confused with someone else, but arent you an amateur MMA fighter? got a couple of ameteur fights under your belt? that must make you a pretty bad dude relative to being on these forums, right? because you sure do sound like a little punk to me when you show such a lack of emotional control - and such anger. why? you dont agree with what i'm saying? so far as i can tell we can all only speculate. if you have some information that might convince me that there was no bias in what we can all agree was a flagrantly "wrong" decision, i'd like to hear it. but this: (:rant:) aint gonna convince me.
Outside of saying shogun deserved the fight, i dont agree with a single thing you have said. It pisses me off that you jump to wild speculation with out a single clear thought as to what you are trying to say. Think about this: If shogun KOed Machida... would machida still have won?
clearly obvious is it? since common sense is something i apparently lack, i'll have to borrow some of yours. does your common sense tell you that three judges, who saw the same fight as you and me, were
A: profoundly blind and inept
or
B: biased
?
being biased has NOTHING to do with 'fixing' a fight. but right there is the only time you brought up just bias. I have been saying throughout the entire thread that when a judge comes to a decision that their bias is involved. Ive already told you what the bias is of judges in a championship match. to answer your question.. B. biased... but everyone knows that. Is it bull shit? YES. did th right guy win the match? I dont think so.
KillerWolf
10-26-2009, 01:23 AM
perhaps there is a language barrier where I am trying to listen in english all the while you are speaking in Dumbass.:y:
pretty proud of that one are ya? yeeeeup, that's a good one. mind if i try and shoe horn that one in at work tomorrow?
in all seriousness though, i am interested to see how you answer that common sense A or B question - if you are so inclined.
Reavant
10-26-2009, 01:25 AM
cant you read it? or do you need the translator?
Here we go, I'm about to watch it again.
Round One: Too close to call, as far as I'm concerned.
Round Two: Not one-sided at all, but I give Machida the edge in this one.
Round Three: I think Machida took this round, definitely.
Round Four: Shogun landed much more consistently, so I give him this one.
Round Five: Machida looked tired. Definitely a Shogun round.
Conclusion: Coin toss on the first round, for me, decides the winner. Excellent technical fight. I was very impressed with Machida's takedown defence, and knees. As for Shogun, his kicks looked like they wore Machida down.
You're free to ignore my opinion, since I've only been watching this sport for a year, but there it is.
I'll get out of here, before RP comes back. :lol:
How can you come to that opinion when Machida was hugely outstruck in every round and took the harder shots?
They said Machida never lost a round before this fight. After the 1st round, the whole press row said "Machida has now lost a round".
Reavant
10-26-2009, 01:27 AM
whats funny though is your 'clever' question does nothing to prove any sort of point which again goes to show you complete lack of thinking
Reavant
10-26-2009, 01:29 AM
How can you come to that opinion when Machida was hugely outstruck in every round and took the harder shots?
They said Machida never lost a round before this fight. After the 1st round, the whole press row said "Machida has now lost a round".
I agree with you but look at it from a judges point of view and knowing what you know about how judges score.
I agree with you but look at it from a judges point of view and knowing what you know about how judges score.
I can't how a judge could score it. Especially since in person that close to the cage, the kicks sound 10 times worse.
I've just seen some of the posts about me since I left.
Is Krispy obsessed with me much?
And I was disappointed in how much some of the regulars can't see jokes and great trolling.
Heyman could and he doesn't even post here. Because he rules.
NoJabbaNoBogRoll
10-26-2009, 01:36 AM
How can you come to that opinion when Machida was hugely outstruck in every round and took the harder shots?
They said Machida never lost a round before this fight. After the 1st round, the whole press row said "Machida has now lost a round".
I've seen the stats. Obviously, they say a lot more than my personal opinion.
The first time I watched it, I thought Shogun had won, clearly. When I watch it for a third time, perhaps I'll see something different, again.
KillerWolf
10-26-2009, 01:47 AM
oh, i see, you did answer it. thanks. your answer was B, right? and no, that wasnt the only time i brought up bias.
Outside of saying shogun deserved the fight, i dont agree with a single thing you have said. It pisses me off that you jump to wild speculation with out a single clear thought as to what you are trying to say. Think about this: If shogun KOed Machida... would machida still have won?obviously not, but in 2004 if that European nobody had KO'ed DeLaHoya instead of only dominate him, he wouldnt have lost either. but since he didnt KO him, the decision went to DeLaHoya. if Matt Hammil would have KO'ed or submitted Bisping, he wouldnt have lost either, but he only dominated him, so the decision went to Bisping. in that case, i have a pretty good idea why the judges were biased. in this case, it's clear that they were, but i dont know why.
umm who is the big money match that this was a warm up for? Rampage? Oh yea he retired... Rashad? Oh yea machida beat him... anderson silva? oh yea theyre friends and wont fight... wanderlei? oh yea he has lost 5 of the last 6 and is dropping to 185... chuck? oh yea he lost to rua and the closest thing to training has been dancing... do I need to keep going? my point was that i've seen biased decisions before and this decision was clearly biased - not just inept.
look, i think we both agree that the judges' decision was biased. i am only speculating as to why. i think the first thing i said here is,"but why." you seem to be of the opinion that it was biased because judges are just cunts. all im saying is that a lot of crooked shit happens in boxing, and the UFC may not be immune to it. i just would have presumed that this was a conversation that could be had without people calling each other bitches and cunts.
Reavant
10-26-2009, 02:10 AM
whats the criteria for a judge to decide a fight? punches/kicks/knees/elbows landed, effective punches/kicks/knees/elbows landed, what if its 'kind of' blocked but still 'sort of' hit? number of takedowns/attempts, octogon control (what is that though? staying in the center or effectivly circling the outside?), aggression (what if one guy is a counterstriker), grappling positions, top position, cardio shape.
Does anyone reading this think a person can actually make the perfect call on all this or is bias going to come into this whether its boxing or mma?
Im an actual fighter and I cant answer how the judges do it. I do understand that the champion goes into a fight with an automatic advantage along with a fighter that is more popular or has had plenty of great performances to leave impressions on the judges. Three areas that shogun was not covered by.
Reavant
10-26-2009, 02:12 AM
obviously not, but in 2004 if that European nobody had KO'ed DeLaHoya instead of only dominate him, he wouldnt have lost either. but since he didnt KO him, the decision went to DeLaHoya. if Matt Hammil would have KO'ed or submitted Bisping, he wouldnt have lost either, but he only dominated him, so the decision went to Bisping. in that case, i have a pretty good idea why the judges were biased. in this case, it's clear that they were, but i dont know why.
my point was that i've seen biased decisions before and this decision was clearly biased - not just inept.
this is whats driving me crazy.... before you were talking about a fixed fight! bias is not the same. If machida/delahoya/bisbing were KOed, they would have still lost so there is no fix!
Reavant
10-26-2009, 02:13 AM
You have a better arguement saying a fight like Serra/GSP 1 was a fix rather than a 5 round MMA war where anything can happen.
Guys, I think we can all agree that Tito Ortiz has a really huge head.
Johnny McNasty
10-26-2009, 03:50 AM
Here we go, I'm about to watch it again.
Round One: Too close to call, as far as I'm concerned.
Round Two: Not one-sided at all, but I give Machida the edge in this one.
Round Three: I think Machida took this round, definitely.
Round Four: Shogun landed much more consistently, so I give him this one.
Round Five: Machida looked tired. Definitely a Shogun round.
Conclusion: Coin toss on the first round, for me, decides the winner. Excellent technical fight. I was very impressed with Machida's takedown defence, and knees. As for Shogun, his kicks looked like they wore Machida down.
You're free to ignore my opinion, since I've only been watching this sport for a year, but there it is.
I'll get out of here, before RP comes back. :lol:
After re-watching the fight I completely agree with this assessment. Round one is really close, and I could give it to either man. Both had some big shots, Machida threw some flurries, and Shogun landed a sick body kick. Just too close to say either fighter definitely beat the other in that round .
On second viewing this fight is beautiful to watch, it really is a clash of styles in the octagon. Shogun's strategy to forget the head and go for the body was very effective. You could tell at some points through the fight Machida was surprised that he was taking some of those leg kicks and body blows. Very impressed with both guys, more so Shogun because he really hasn't been this impressive in the Octagon.
KillerWolf
10-26-2009, 04:34 AM
this is whats driving me crazy.... before you were talking about a fixed fight! bias is not the same. If machida/delahoya/bisbing were KOed, they would have still lost so there is no fix!
first of all, stop letting it drive you crazy. find peace and solice in the fact that meant it in the most general way possible - meaning fixed = rigged = biased. not saying that the definitions are the same, but it's how i meant it. i understand that a "fix" generally means that someone takes a dive, but as broader term can mean unless there is a stoppage, so and so wins.
You have a better arguement saying a fight like Serra/GSP 1 was a fix rather than a 5 round MMA war where anything can happen.
again, i get your point, but i meant fixed as a general term tantamount to biased.
KillerWolf
10-26-2009, 05:20 AM
now for something that will really blow your mind. proving that i can at least say i am a big enough person in life that i dont need to cling to my opinions in order to save face as KillerWolf on TPWW let me say this: one poster stated that he intended to watch the fight with the sound off, so as not to be influenced by the commentary. i think we should all do this. i just did this. it's embarrassing to say, but not only was the fight not as one sided as it seemed watching it live, but i dont even have a really big problem with the three judges' decision. so to anyone who i may have called a half a fag earlier for saying that they could see where the judges are coming from, i now say that you either are a half a fag, just the way i called it; or you have an uncanny intuitiveness when it comes to calling the action in a fight, or you watched it live without being able to hear the commentary. i'll let you decide. and for anyone who thinks that i am now half a fag, i say watch the fight with the sound off and pay careful attention.
now i will speculate on why in what i now say was a close fight, i originally saw as such a one-sided rout of the champion.
1. rounds that are very close = a complete breakdown of the Machida Effect that we're used to seeing, and that was reflected in the commentary of Rogan and Goldberg.
2. scores are turned in at the end of each round (yes, something i was aware of, Reavant) but as a fan, it's hard not to look at who looked beat the fuck up, who appeared to be more gassed at the end, and in this case especially, who's game plan was completely derailed.
3. seeing the Machida gameplan derailed makes it look like he's losing the fight. the storyline of the commentary was that Machida was losing the fight. so it looked to me, and most everyone else that Machida clearly lost the fight.
4. when Machida was announced as the winner, i, like so many people was but one in a room full of people that, in perfect unison said "WHAT THE FUCK!?! THAT'S FUCKIN' BULLSHIT! not to mention the booing of the fans, the shock from Rogan and Dana White, the instant contraversy, this thread, the instant remach...
maybe a second viewing is all that it would have taken, but seeing the fight with the volume all the way down really gave a different perspective than the one that i originally had.
Impact!
10-26-2009, 08:55 AM
Watched it without sound, my opinion hasn't changed. Shogun won
Looks like Reavant's got some crayons.
The Mackem
10-26-2009, 09:38 AM
What a fantastic thread.
Impact!
10-26-2009, 09:41 AM
Oh yeah, welcome back Rob :y:
The Mackem
10-26-2009, 09:41 AM
yeah Rob, well done for bringing a ratings smash to the table
Reavant
10-26-2009, 12:18 PM
first of all, stop letting it drive you crazy. find peace and solice in the fact that meant it in the most general way possible - meaning fixed = rigged = biased. not saying that the definitions are the same, but it's how i meant it. i understand that a "fix" generally means that someone takes a dive, but as broader term can mean unless there is a stoppage, so and so wins.
again, i get your point, but i meant fixed as a general term tantamount to biased.
thats like saying hi im dumb and im going to say stupid things so dont correct me or get annoyed when i dont get it because im dumb. I dont care how you mean it but fixed does not = biased ever it is not tantamount to biased at all.
Loose Cannon
10-26-2009, 12:21 PM
lol wtf. The one fight I do not see and all havoc breaks loose here.
KillerWolf
10-26-2009, 02:47 PM
thats like saying hi im dumb and im going to say stupid things so dont correct me or get annoyed when i dont get it because im dumb. I dont care how you mean it but fixed does not = biased ever it is not tantamount to biased at all.
no it isnt.
it's like saying i can see how you thought one thing based on my choice of words, but rest assured, i meant something different.
christ, dude.
Inadequacy
10-26-2009, 05:06 PM
Here we go, I'm about to watch it again.
Round One: Too close to call, as far as I'm concerned.
Round Two: Not one-sided at all, but I give Machida the edge in this one.
Round Three: I think Machida took this round, definitely.
Round Four: Shogun landed much more consistently, so I give him this one.
Round Five: Machida looked tired. Definitely a Shogun round.
Conclusion: Coin toss on the first round, for me, decides the winner. Excellent technical fight. I was very impressed with Machida's takedown defence, and knees. As for Shogun, his kicks looked like they wore Machida down.
You're free to ignore my opinion, since I've only been watching this sport for a year, but there it is.
I'll get out of here, before RP comes back. :lol:
Sounds like you didn't even watch the fight.
NoJabbaNoBogRoll
10-26-2009, 06:00 PM
Lads, we've got another RP on our hands. :lol:
Inadequacy
10-26-2009, 06:07 PM
That was the joke
Vastardikai
10-26-2009, 06:11 PM
Round One: Too close to call, as far as I'm concerned.
Round Two: Not one-sided at all, but I give Machida the edge in this one.
Round Three: I think Machida took this round, definitely.
Round Four: Shogun landed much more consistently, so I give him this one.
Round Five: Machida looked tired. Definitely a Shogun round.
Conclusion: Coin toss on the first round, for me, decides the winner. Excellent technical fight. I was very impressed with Machida's takedown defence, and knees. As for Shogun, his kicks looked like they wore Machida down.
Actually, that's a fair assessment. I felt Rounds 1 and 2 went to Shogun, but they could have gone either way. Rounds 3-5 are spot on.
In any event, the Machida Mystique is gone, and I don't have to spend $60 a month for Karate classes.
muffalufagus
10-26-2009, 06:18 PM
Yo it's clear Machida one you guys are just haters okay?
Vastardikai
10-26-2009, 06:33 PM
I'm actually a Machida fan.
I was seriously considering taking Karate Classes if he won. He "won" according to the shit decision, so it's not happening.
NoJabbaNoBogRoll
10-26-2009, 06:35 PM
That was the joke
Really? ;)
Inadequacy
10-26-2009, 06:47 PM
Really
I'm actually a Machida fan.
I was seriously considering taking Karate Classes if he won. He "won" according to the shit decision, so it's not happening.
I saw some vids of him on youtube teaching his footwork. You can just watch those. Anyways if anyone was to take away his elusiveness or make it not as effective then Machida would have to be more offensive. I still think it's a good idea to learn footwork and be elusive but if the dude can still catch you then you gotta step up.
I've watched a lot of Machida's fights and he didn't look the same going into this fight but if he had more of those flurries where he had Rua up against the cage scrambling just like when he knocked out Evans then I'm sure he could knock Rua out or at least get some points his way. I think he was too set in his style and was bored and didn't adapt to the new situation.
NoJabbaNoBogRoll
10-26-2009, 09:00 PM
Really
Really really? ;)
Inadequacy
10-26-2009, 09:02 PM
Oh yeah...REALLY
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