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View Full Version : When WWE lost it

EDWARD
10-29-2009, 11:29 PM
A few days ago i posted a thread discussing if wwe was on the verge of being good again. not that they aren't good right now, but as good as they were. some of you agreed with me and some of you didn't. know i want to know when you guys thought wwe had lost its luster that they are trying to get back? what event or series of events caused the entertainment downfall of the wwe?

p.s - juan i will stop with the laughing "ostrich" videos, just cause you asked nicley
Juan
10-29-2009, 11:36 PM
I remember being really put off during HHH's reign of doom on Raw in 2002. I remember not really enjoying much WWE until late 2007.
EDWARD
10-29-2009, 11:37 PM
are you talking about when he was feuding with kane and when evolution started?
Xero
10-29-2009, 11:41 PM
There's always been SOMETHING good in WWE, but I think the worst years were like 05 to 07. The fall of Lesnar and the rise of Cena were big reasons.
McLegend
10-29-2009, 11:52 PM
The purchase of WCW.
DrCrawford
10-30-2009, 12:02 AM
yep i agree. once the monday night wars and the competition with wcw ended, the quality went down hill. competition breeds quality
DAMN iNATOR
10-30-2009, 12:32 AM
I remember how awful it was when they did the Katie Vick storyline, and then not too long after they did some kind of storyline based on Al Wilson (Torrie's father, was it?)...needless to say that didn't help things any in an already pretty dark time in WWE's history.
Evil Vito
10-30-2009, 12:49 AM
<font color=goldenrod>Triple H in 02-04 and Cena in late 05-today have hindered my enjoyment, but I always still watch and there are still good things.</font>
DAMN iNATOR
10-30-2009, 12:58 AM
Oh, I also hated when Big Show went over Lesnar at SS '02 and won the WWE title. Just an awful man to have hold any world championship, besides maybe when he had the ECW title for a while. That was OK, but far from great.
Savio
10-30-2009, 01:04 AM
05
CWK
10-30-2009, 02:21 AM
I guess you could say I am a life long die hard fan, you take the good with the bad. The product from 97 to 02 in WWE was top notch, the product now is stale as could be, but I will always watch because I love wrestling in general. Any type of pro wrestling, stuff from 50 years ago I watch, different promotions I watch.

Personally, I think WWE started going stale in 2004 or 2005 when JBL was holding the belt for a while, they were changing John Cena, and Brock Lesnar leaving the company.
Emperor Smeat
10-30-2009, 03:58 AM
Personally I liked any year of wrestling pre-Attitude Era since I started watching somewhere between 1989-1991 and then watched both WCW and WWF during the Attitude Era so I never really felt any sense of "stale" periods until late WCW era.

Only going by the Brand Split Era, 2002-2004 on RAW was some of the worst shows quality-wise when compared to what Smackdown was producing during the Heyman/Stephanie GM eras. As a whole, 2006-2008 since that's when they really began to neglect Smackdown more to boost their "flagship" show. Ended up destroying their lower card divisions (like Tag Teams and Cruiser-weights) and having stale main events with the same few people and feuds.
Mr. Nerfect
10-30-2009, 07:14 AM
<font color=goldenrod>Triple H in 02-04 and Cena in late 05-today have hindered my enjoyment, but I always still watch and there are still good things.</font>

These two points are probably the best examples I can think of. :y:

SmackDown! was pretty good under the booking of Paul Heyman, in contrast to "The Triple H Show," but John Cena really started to irk me mid-2004. It was right around the time of his feud with Booker T that I decided I wasn't buying into him like others. For one, Booker T sucked as a heel at this point in time. Secondly, it was obvious they were booking Cena to look like some sort of god. He got stripped of the US Title just to win it back.

Batista sort of became a saving grace during this period of time, but he lost momentum quite quickly. The heel turn is way overdue. Cena's is still overdue.
DaveBrawl
10-30-2009, 07:39 AM
I'd say things nosedived for me sometime around the middle-end of the Invasion, HHH being on tv 1-1/2 out of 2 hours and DDP becoming a stalker getting beat up by women was just a slap in the face to me.
The Jayman
10-30-2009, 08:39 AM
2005 easily. The Attitude era was awesome. The Invasion angle was awesome. 2002 saw the Brand split which was cool at that time. 2003 was a really good year which saw Evolution, Kane unmasking (which had more potential), Bischoff/Austin GM war on Raw just to name a few. 2004 IMO was the last good year.
Rammsteinmad
10-30-2009, 12:07 PM
I thought 2009 up to Breaking Point was great! Smackdown in particular. After the brand lottery this year Smackdown had a GREAT roster for new talent to rise up. CM Punk and Jeff Hardy had one of the freshest main event fueds that we've had in years, whilst Jericho and Mysterio were tearing up the mid-card.

Ever since the whole PG-13 thing came into full effect, WWE's product has been awful. And Triple H is currently on reign of terror #2.
James Steele
10-30-2009, 01:49 PM
I'd say things nosedived for me sometime around the middle-end of the Invasion, HHH being on tv 1-1/2 out of 2 hours and DDP becoming a stalker getting beat up by women was just a slap in the face to me.

Triple H was injured before the invasion angle and didn't return until the weeks before the 2002 Royal Rumble. He didn't "dominate" RAW until September 2002 when he was awarded the World Championship by Bischoff. Most people didn't get pissy about it until 2003 when Triple H had to carry Steiner for 2 months , then face Booker T @ WMXIX, then the feud with Kevin Nash, then carry Goldberg/Kane off and on to finish up 2003. Then, they started up again the HBK/HHH feud and had Benoit win the RR and go to WMXX. Overall, please tell me the list of performers who could have had an awesome year when you have feuds with Steiner, Nash, and Goldberg for over 2/3 of the year. HHH/Booker lasted from WMXIX to Backlash 03. They started brand-exclusive PPVs so he also had mini-feuds with Bubba Ray and shit. Looking back, it isn't like WWE gave Triple H a great deal of talent to work with. Also, SmackDown! was off the charts at this time and made everything else look 2nd rate.
The Mackem
10-30-2009, 01:53 PM
Yeah, I agree with The Jayman, somewhere between Wrestlemania 20 and Wrestlemania 21 something went wrong IMO.

Maybe it was due to a few things like:

Goldberg and Lesnar going. Star power was already low due to Rock, Austin and Hogan going over the previous year
Chris Benoit's short title reign which was sometimes sidelined
A lot of new main event starts having to be created (JBL, Orton, Batista, Cena) in a short space of time
Eddie losing the title
Brand exclusive PPV's seriously started to go down in quality as well as star power
Randy Orton's short title reign/getting it at all as a face
JBL's long title reign
James Steele
10-30-2009, 02:01 PM
I agree with The Mackem and The Jayman.
DaveBrawl
10-30-2009, 02:20 PM
Triple H was injured before the invasion angle and didn't return until the weeks before the 2002 Royal Rumble. He didn't "dominate" RAW until September 2002 when he was awarded the World Championship by Bischoff. Most people didn't get pissy about it until 2003 when Triple H had to carry Steiner for 2 months , then face Booker T @ WMXIX, then the feud with Kevin Nash, then carry Goldberg/Kane off and on to finish up 2003. Then, they started up again the HBK/HHH feud and had Benoit win the RR and go to WMXX. Overall, please tell me the list of performers who could have had an awesome year when you have feuds with Steiner, Nash, and Goldberg for over 2/3 of the year. HHH/Booker lasted from WMXIX to Backlash 03. They started brand-exclusive PPVs so he also had mini-feuds with Bubba Ray and shit. Looking back, it isn't like WWE gave Triple H a great deal of talent to work with. Also, SmackDown! was off the charts at this time and made everything else look 2nd rate.


I worded that wrong. I know HHH wasn't part of the Invasion, but I meant from late 01/early 2002 on was when Raw fell off for me. I was just using those 3 points as a reference point, not necessarily in chronological order.

And I didn't mean my post to bash HHH, because he wasn't the only problem on Raw (I was in college at this time and didn't get to see Smackdown because we didn't get UPN so Raw was all I could see). I've just never been a big fan of the guy for whatever reason and seeing him on the screen so much just took a lot of the show's appeal away to me.
DaveBrawl
10-30-2009, 02:21 PM
I also dislike U2 so those videos from when he was returning around that time really didn't help matters. :lol:
The Jayman
10-30-2009, 02:28 PM
I also dislike U2 so those videos from when he was returning around that time really didn't help matters. :lol:

I remember that. it was the "Beautiful Day" videos
DaveBrawl
10-30-2009, 02:30 PM
Yeah that's the one.
The Jayman
10-30-2009, 02:35 PM
was an odd choice of song for his return videos
DaveBrawl
10-30-2009, 03:24 PM
It really was, you'd think you'd want something to pump you up for a big return like that. I guess it was a beautiful day when he returned.
The Jayman
10-30-2009, 03:29 PM
well it was in January so it was cold and since it was at MSG. It was a cold New York Day.
DaveBrawl
10-30-2009, 03:30 PM
Well I guess it was just a failure all the way around. I guess we've settled the topic, the Beautiful Day video was when the WWE lost it. Good work Jayman.
The Jayman
10-30-2009, 03:42 PM
thank you Dave. I couldn't have done it without your help
XCaliber
10-30-2009, 07:54 PM
If I had to pinpoint exact time I probly couldn't but I know things started going downhill shortly after WM19 but it's not been that terrible. Compared to the early to mid 90s was that saw tons of horrible matches and gimmicks it's not so bad really. The whole brand split to me was never good as a fan stanpoint either to me it has just cheapened the value of the championships.
Nicky Fives
10-30-2009, 08:31 PM
WWE lost me right around when Goldberg was brought in
Heyman
10-31-2009, 03:33 PM
A few days ago i posted a thread discussing if wwe was on the verge of being good again. not that they aren't good right now, but as good as they were. some of you agreed with me and some of you didn't. know i want to know when you guys thought wwe had lost its luster that they are trying to get back? what event or series of events caused the entertainment downfall of the wwe?

p.s - juan i will stop with the laughing "ostrich" videos, just cause you asked nicley

To me, the WWE went into decline right after Survivor Series 2001....when they discontinued heel Austin, turned him into the old Austin, and had absolutely no plan afterwards. Having the alliance 'win' at SS 2001, would have also kept things intriguing for awhile since the WWE will have been "taken over" (and at that point, you could have had WCW vs. ECW...with WWE alumni eventually joining up on whatever side they preferred....ECW could have gone over HUGE as this point since the fans loved chanting 'ECW' like sheep, while guys like Goldberg, Nash, Steiner, Bischoff, could have joined a lot sooner).

The WWE then pissed away Jericho by making him look like a complete joke as a world champion (i.e. fluke victories over Rock and Austin, getting squashed by Triple H at Mania, etc.), while also completely shitting the bed with Austin. No wonder Austin was pissed at the Creative team, and I'm glad that he walked out on them.

If the WWE had been smart, they would have kept Austin heel (and champ) until Wrestlemania.....and THEN have a face Triple H go over Austin at Mania. Austin's massive credibility would have given Triple H that credible victory. Instead, the crowd was completely dead (after Rock/Hogan) once Triple H defeated a not-so-well-built-up Jericho.

The WWE have also had ample opportunities to get back to the "glory days", but have pissed away the opportunity on each and every one of them (i.e. Lesnar, RVD, Jericho, Angle, Orton...in both 04' and 09'). Each of the 5 names that I just mentioned could have been HUGE stars that could have drawn huge had they been pushed right.
shadowfoxrz
10-31-2009, 04:15 PM
When they purchased WCW and when they lost the F(It sounds funny but to change the company name is a pretty big letdown for me). Now there is a NO blood policy! Really?! Vince is the best but he can also kill what he created and i think he killed it with the PG thing.
Jannettyzilla
10-31-2009, 08:45 PM
The night they lost me was right after they bought WCW when they had a "WCW" show with Booker T vs. Buff Bagwell as the ME, only to have Austin and Angle (I think) run in and throw them out of the building.

The battle was over, and now was a mockery. I stopped caring.

Now I'm watching again, mainly because of the Jericho/Legends angle from 'Mania, and the midcard guys have me intrigued to keep up.
Juan
10-31-2009, 08:53 PM
The WCW edition of Raw was not the night after the WCW purchase.
Jannettyzilla
10-31-2009, 10:46 PM
The WCW edition of Raw was not the night after the WCW purchase.

Right, not night.

Although, it probably wasn't adjacent to the purchase, either.