The most important question......

[Nicky Fives]

Who is the best pro professional wrestler ever?

I'm sure this thread has been done before, but I personally feel the answer is quite clear.

I'm not talking about the most charismatic, most technically-sound, best high-flyer, most entertaining, best promo cutter, best big money draw, best heel or face, or whatever.

I'm saying if you were to rate every wrestler in every possibe catoegory that you could judge them on (which I'm not asking you to do), who would come out on top?

Hulk Hogan? "Stone Cold" Steve Austin? Shawn Michaels? Ric Flair? The Rock? Bret Hart? Someone else?

Explain.....

[Nicky Fives]

For me, without question, The Best Wrestler Ever is Shawn Michaels

[Sixx]

Hulk Hogan, because he made the bleached hair cool. While being bald.

[Mr. Nerfect]

For me, it comes down to Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock or Shawn Michaels. But I feel that each sort of falters in some areas. Honestly, though, I have to say that HBK excels in the most areas. The one I would most question is his ability to draw. Sadly, when I think talking about the "greatest ever," this is a pretty big point. If I was going to talk about the greatest movie ever, I probably wouldn't hold how well it did at the box office against it. But if I was going to talk about the greatest actor ever, I probably would take into consideration how much money their films made...

But I'd have to nominate Shawn Michaels, which surprises me. Austin would be my second pick.

[Indifferent Clox]

cue final countdown

[Nicky Fives]

But I'd have to nominate Shawn Michaels, which surprises me. Austin would be my second pick.

I completely agree with this..... only HBK coming on top doesn't really surprise me a great deal

[Anybody Thrilla]

I think Kurt Angle is probably the most well-rounded wrestler of all time. If WWE would have continued pushing him like they did out the gate, he'd really be something special by now.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Now, that's not to say that WWE 'used him poorly' or anything. I just think he could have been so much more. He can do heel. He can do face. He can do comedy. He can do serious. His in-ring skills are pretty much second to none. The crowd gets into him. He's got a legitimate background. Pretty much the total package (sorry Lex).

I'd place him just above Shawn Michaels. Bret Hart's probably my personal favorite of all time, but I think Kurt's the best all-around ever.

[Nicky Fives]

Now, that's not to say that WWE 'used him poorly' or anything. I just think he could have been so much more. He can do heel. He can do face. He can do comedy. He can do serious. His in-ring skills are pretty much second to none. The crowd gets into him. He's got a legitimate background. Pretty much the total package (sorry Lex).

I'd place him just above Shawn Michaels. Bret Hart's probably my personal favorite of all time, but I think Kurt's the best all-around ever.

you make solid points..... can't argue with that...... :(

[Anybody Thrilla]

You don't have to. We're just discussing.

[The Franchise]

Steve Austin, Shawn Michaels or Kurt Angle. Def one of those three. Then would be Rock, Savage, Bret, Flair etc

[Outsider]

Kurt Angle.

Whether you mark on entertainment, technical skill, work-rate or any other possible marking mechanism, that guy is one of the top of all time. The complete package.

Stone Cold or the Rock were both great with entertainment and hard workers, but neither were fantastic wrestlers. Their matches were great, but from entertainment rather than technical skill. I mean the Rock oversold fucking everything for crying out loud.

Flair would be a great contender, with the skill and entertainment, but he wrestled way past his own years and tarnished his own legacy.

The only others I can think of who are that complete package are maybe HBK or Jericho.

[Mr. Nerfect]

I think Kurt Angle is probably the most well-rounded wrestler of all time. If WWE would have continued pushing him like they did out the gate, he'd really be something special by now.

I don't know why I eliminated Kurt Angle from the list. I think it was probably the drawing aspect. He would have probably drawn less than Shawn Michaels, wouldn't he? But other than that, I think Kurt Angle might be greater than Shawn Michaels, yes. He definitely deserves a right to be mentioned. In fact, I'd probably change my answer to him.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I really hope Angle finishes up his career in WWE. I miss him sorely. I don't really feel like watching TNA, though.

[Sycophant]

I would have to go with either HBK or Ric Flair. It is close in my book between the two. Both are great on a mic and can get whatever response they want from a crowd. I would have the give Shawn the edge because he is a better wrestler than Flair. All things considered...HBK. The man could feud with a broom and make it look good.

[The Franchise]

The man could feud with a broom and make it look good.

He had feuded with Mr Kennedy

[Savio]

I think Kurt Angle is probably the most well-rounded wrestler of all time.

[Jannettyzilla]

Hogan is all you need.

[KIRA]

No ones gonna mention TAKER?:-\:-\

[Anybody Thrilla]

Why would they?

[Nicky Fives]

I feel that Undertaker never gets the respect he deserves...... but he without question has the most successful gimmick of all-time.... tbh, I rate Undertaker above Savage, above Flair, and just below Hogan

[The Show Off]

Who is the best pro professional wrestler ever?

I'm sure this thread has been done before, but I personally feel the answer is quite clear.

I'm not talking about the most charismatic, most technically-sound, best high-flyer, most entertaining, best promo cutter, best big money draw, best heel or face, or whatever.

I'm saying if you were to rate every wrestler in every possibe catoegory that you could judge them on (which I'm not asking you to do), who would come out on top?

Hulk Hogan? "Stone Cold" Steve Austin? Shawn Michaels? Ric Flair? The Rock? Bret Hart? Someone else?

Explain.....

I'll take a quasi-scientific approach... I'll make a top 5 list in each of the qualaties that I think make a pro-wrestler the best... Then I'll give points to each position 5 points to #1, 4 points to #2... and so on and so forth...

The qualaties are...

Most Charismatic
Best In-Ring Performer (from a Technical Stand Pouint)
Best In-Ring Performer (from a Story Telling Stand Point)
Best Mic-Worker
Biggest Draw
Willingness/Capability to Play Heel or Face

Most Charismatic
1. The Rock (5 pts.)
2. Ric Flair (4 pts.)
3. Steve Austin (3 pts.)
4. Shawn Michaels (2 pts.)
5. Hulk Hogan (1 pt.)

Best In-Ring Performer (from a Technical Stand Point)
1. Kurt Angle (5)
2. Bret Hart (4)
3. Shawn Michaels (3)
4. Ric Flair (2)
5. Ricky Steamboat (1)

Best In-Ring Performer (from a Story Telling Stand Point)
1. Steve Austin (5)
2. Ric Flair (4)
3. Jake Roberts (3)
4. Mick Foley (2)
5. Triple H (1)

Best Mic Worker
1. Mick Foley (5)
2. Roddy Piper (4)
3. Ric Flair (3)
4. The Rock (2)
5. Chris Jericho (1)

Biggest Draw
1. Hulk Hogan (5)
2. Steve Austin (4)
3. Bruno Sammartino (3)
4. The Rock (2)
5. Andre the Giant (1)

Willingness/Capacity to Play Heel or Face
1. Ric Flair (5)
2. Triple H (4)
3. Kurt Angle (3)
4. Chris Jericho (2)
5. The Rock (1)

Overall (with points)
1. Ric Flair (18 points)
2. Steve Austin (12 points)
3. The Rock (10 points)
4. Kurt Angle (8 points)
5. Mick Foley (7 points)

6. Hulk Hogan (6 points)
7t. Shawn Michaels (5 points)
7t. Triple H (5 points)
9t. Bret Hart (4 points)
9t. Roddy Piper (4 points)
11t. Bruno Sammartino (3 points)
11t. Chris Jericho (3 points)
11t. Jake Roberts (3 points)
14t. Andre the Giant (1 point)
14t. Ricky Steamboat (1 point)

So to answer your question... Ric Flair.

[Anybody Thrilla]

The Undertaker has been in a lot of crappy matches with a lot of crappy people. A lot of crappy high profile matches, at that. His mic skills are seriously lacking, and his work rate is pretty awful these days at least. I can understand enjoying the Undertaker, but metioning him as the greatest of all time is certainly laughable.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Show Off, I feel your lists are flawed. Mick Foley shouldn't be on any in-ring list of any kind (besides most willing to do ridiculous bumps)...Hulk Hogan is more charismatic than Shawn Michaels, and probably the rest of that list too...Ric Flair should not be toping the heel/face list, he's a heel at heart....I DUNNO BRO.

[Steveviscious89]

Well.....I think we all have our own opinions about who is the best, but if we are talking about whom you think people in general would say is the best, they would probably stick within Hogan, Austin, or The Rock. These three guys were staples in the wrestling industry and you can't just say 'well they didn't do so good in this category or that'. They were the three most successful in the business without question.

If I had to choose, I would be forced to choose Hogan, simply because he was it in the 80's, and then once again in the 90's, and is still hanging around trying to do it again. Both Austin and Rock bailed on the business, so that leaves them in second place to me.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Question for Stevevicious89...if a song on the radio sells more than another song, does that automatically make the radio song the better song?

[The Show Off]

Show Off, I feel your lists are flawed. Mick Foley shouldn't be on any in-ring list of any kind (besides most willing to do ridiculous bumps)...Hulk Hogan is more charismatic than Shawn Michaels, and probably the rest of that list too...Ric Flair should not be toping the heel/face list, he's a heel at heart....I DUNNO BRO.

Obviously these are just opinions, so you are entitled to your own...

However, I think the 4 above Hogan are more charismatic then him, Hogan was charismatic as hell but not more than any of the men above him...

Foley was great at telling a story in the ring. He wasn't good technically, hence why I didn't put him on the technical list. The reason foley seperated himself from The Sandman or Sabu (also guys willing to do bumps) was his ability to tell a story. Look at his matches with The Rock and all of them have clearly defined storys going on. Nuanced stories that very few people could pull off...

Flair has switched from heel to face and was willing to swich from heel to face more than any other wrestler in the history of wrestling. From 1983 to 1991 Flair was the #1 heel or #1 face in the NWA for his entire run. His ability to swich roles was better than anyone in history.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Look at that match with The Rock where Foley was handcuffed and took 22 unprotected head shots. Great story from Foley there. :y:

[Anybody Thrilla]

Even when Ric Flair was a face, he was still "The Dirtiest Player in the Game". Not a "proper" face, if you ask me.

Also, I probably would have put Hogan at number 2 on your charisma list.

[Nicky Fives]

Foley was great at telling a story in the ring. He wasn't good technically, hence why I didn't put him on the technical list. The reason foley seperated himself from The Sandman or Sabu (also guys willing to do bumps) was his ability to tell a story. Look at his matches with The Rock and all of them have clearly defined storys going on. Nuanced stories that very few people could pull off...

This may be true, but could Foley pull of the great matches with Rock or Triple H without the chairs? the thumtacks? or barbed wire baseball bats? and just based solely on in-ring ability? I don't think he can.....well.... at least not as well as HBK, Flair, Austin, hell even Hogan

[Anybody Thrilla]

Foley's promos told great stories. I'll give him that.

[The Show Off]

Look at that match with The Rock where Foley was handcuffed and took 22 unprotected head shots. Great story from Foley there. :y:

You mean at Royal Rumble 1999 where he pulled off a story where he and The Rock had an I Quit match which Foley was telling the story that he wanted the fans to get so upset with him getting hurt that they would beg for Foley to quit despite the title being on the line?

That was a well told story. A very well told story.

Foley's "hardcore" wrestling was just his way of telling stories.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Foley was the face in that match. Why would he want to upset the fans on purpose?

[The Show Off]

This may be true, but could Foley pull of the great matches with Rock or Triple H without the chairs? the thumtacks? or barbed wire baseball bats? and just based solely on in-ring ability? I don't think he can.....well.... at least not as well as HBK, Flair, Austin, hell even Hogan

vs. Shawn Micheals at Mind Games

Foley carried the weight of the story of that match...

[The Show Off]

Foley was the face in that match. Why would he want to upset the fans on purpose?

To get a visceral reaction out of them to put The Rock over HUGE as a heel...

If you've read Foley's book or watched the DVD he explains it...

But my defending Foley is silly, he's only #5 on my overall list...

[Anybody Thrilla]

Mind Games was probably Foley's best match. You still have to give some of that credit to Shawn Michaels, though.

[Anybody Thrilla]

To get a visceral reaction out of them to put The Rock over HUGE as a heel...

If you've read Foley's book or watched the DVD he explains it...

But my defending Foley is silly, he's only #5 on my overall list...

Because he's on an in-ring list of any kind and Kurt Angle isn't.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Even if that Rumble performance was a great story told, it was still due to the ridiculous bumps. And if you REALLY wanna be technical, most of those chair shots happened outside of the ring. :cool:

:shifty:

[Anybody Thrilla]

SIDENOTE: I like this kind of discussion. Nobody's being a dickhead and everybody's bringing up decent points. :y:

[The Franchise]

Speaking of Kurt Angle, I watched him beating Austin for the WWF Title at Unforgiven 2001 last night. What a moment. :cool: One of my all-time favorite title wins

Kurt was a BEAST in 2001/02. Goofy Olympic Hero Kurt was one of the best gimmicks ever.

[Executioner]

I'll take a quasi-scientific approach... I'll make a top 5 list in each of the qualaties that I think make a pro-wrestler the best... Then I'll give points to each position 5 points to #1, 4 points to #2... and so on and so forth...

The qualaties are...

Most Charismatic
Best In-Ring Performer (from a Technical Stand Pouint)
Best In-Ring Performer (from a Story Telling Stand Point)
Best Mic-Worker
Biggest Draw
Willingness/Capability to Play Heel or Face

Most Charismatic
1. The Rock (5 pts.)
2. Ric Flair (4 pts.)
3. Steve Austin (3 pts.)
4. Shawn Michaels (2 pts.)
5. Hulk Hogan (1 pt.)

Best In-Ring Performer (from a Technical Stand Point)
1. Kurt Angle (5)
2. Bret Hart (4)
3. Shawn Michaels (3)
4. Ric Flair (2)
5. Ricky Steamboat (1)

Best In-Ring Performer (from a Story Telling Stand Point)
1. Steve Austin (5)
2. Ric Flair (4)
3. Jake Roberts (3)
4. Mick Foley (2)
5. Triple H (1)

Best Mic Worker
1. Mick Foley (5)
2. Roddy Piper (4)
3. Ric Flair (3)
4. The Rock (2)
5. Chris Jericho (1)

Biggest Draw
1. Hulk Hogan (5)
2. Steve Austin (4)
3. Bruno Sammartino (3)
4. The Rock (2)
5. Andre the Giant (1)

Willingness/Capacity to Play Heel or Face
1. Ric Flair (5)
2. Triple H (4)
3. Kurt Angle (3)
4. Chris Jericho (2)
5. The Rock (1)

Overall (with points)
1. Ric Flair (18 points)
2. Steve Austin (12 points)
3. The Rock (10 points)
4. Kurt Angle (8 points)
5. Mick Foley (7 points)

6. Hulk Hogan (6 points)
7t. Shawn Michaels (5 points)
7t. Triple H (5 points)
9t. Bret Hart (4 points)
9t. Roddy Piper (4 points)
11t. Bruno Sammartino (3 points)
11t. Chris Jericho (3 points)
11t. Jake Roberts (3 points)
14t. Andre the Giant (1 point)
14t. Ricky Steamboat (1 point)

So to answer your question... Ric Flair.

This.

[The Show Off]

Because he's on an in-ring list of any kind and Kurt Angle isn't.

Angle was my #1 in-ring performer from a technical stand point.

Foley was a better story teller than Angle was.

[The Show Off]

Mind Games was probably Foley's best match. You still have to give some of that credit to Shawn Michaels, though.

Of course, I'm not taking anything away from Michaels... If I expanded the list of best in-ring performers from a storytelling stand point Shawn would be like #6 or #7.

[The Show Off]

SIDENOTE: I like this kind of discussion. Nobody's being a dickhead and everybody's bringing up decent points. :y:

It is nice when people recognize one anothers right to opinions.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Even though your opinion is WRONG!!!! :mad::mad::mad:

:heart:

[Joesgonnakillyou]

Willingness/Capacity to Play Heel or Face
1. Ric Flair (5)
2. Triple H (4)
3. Kurt Angle (3)
4. Chris Jericho (2)
5. The Rock (1)


Why isn't Austin on this list? Surely 2001 showed he can and will play both heel and face?

I know it's all relative but I always thought that one of Austin's biggest strengths

[The Show Off]

Why isn't Austin on this list? Surely 2001 showed he can and will play both heel and face?

I know it's all relative but I always thought that one of Austin's biggest strengths

Not nearly as good as the other five men on the list...

[Nicky Fives]

Not nearly as good as the other five men on the list...

Being a huge mark of Canadian workers, SCSA is still > Jericho

[Favre4Ever]

It's really unfortunate that Chris Benoit did what he did because I think he would be without much of a doubt at the forefront of this discussion otherwise.

[Savio]

yes because benoit was AMAZING on the mic.

[The Show Off]

Being a huge mark of Canadian workers, SCSA is still > Jericho

Not in the ability and willingness to swich from heel to face or visa versa. Which is what I was refering to.

[Droford]

Surprised no one (ruh oh) has mentioned Sting..

[The Franchise]

Not nearly as good as the other five men on the list...

HHH is a horrible face

[The Franchise]

He's over and all but fuck his face characters have always been so generic and dull. Randy Orton learned from the best.

[Nicky Fives]

Not in the ability and willingness to swich from heel to face or visa versa. Which is what I was refering to.

I respectfully disagree.....

[VSG]

That quasi-scientific lists doesnt mention Benoit or Malenko in the technical wrestler's list? Great effort though!

I would definitely say Angle, even when he played a goof during the first few weeks of the Invasion Angle (See what I did there?) he was over with the crowd!

[The Show Off]

I'd like to know what your lists would be for some of those attributes. All these things are very subjective and it'd be interesting how different my opinions are from popular opinion.

[The Pope]

Kurt Angle

[NoRoolz]

Kurt Angle is the whole package. In every single area of judgement he stands out.

For me:
1: Kurt Angle - for above reason (see ABT's post on first page)
2: HBK - close second, also a great all-rounder, just not QUITE as good as Kurt.
3: Bret Hart - Another solid all-rounder, but due to less time in the business and slightly less charisma, he gets third.
4: Steve Austin - Purely because of an exceptional character and being involved in so much he gets this spot, same thing for...
5: The Rock

If I was to judge this 'fairer' and strictly from an all round point of view, Y2J and Flair would complete my list. However, I looked at it from the perspective of an imaginary scoring system, where points are given for each category, and Austin and Rock would score so many points on charisma, memories, feuds, mic skills, storytelling etc, that they'd break my top 5.

[NoRoolz]

By all round point of view I mean like Show Off's system

[Jeritron]

It's really unfortunate that Chris Benoit did what he did because I think he would be without much of a doubt at the forefront of this discussion otherwise.

I think it's unfortunate because he ended the life of his own wife and child and then was too chickenshit to face the music.

[NoRoolz]

Benoit wouldn't be involved anyway.

He'd probably scrape Top 20 for me.

[The Franchise]

Eddie Guerrero would be pretty high on my list too. Obviously a tremendous wrestler, great on the mic, charismatic, over etc

That whole "ability to turn heel/face when he wants" to thing is Eddie's playground. He was the most hated heel in the WWE in 2005 during his Rey feud then within two weeks was one of the most over faces on Smackdown feuding with Batista.

[Jordan]

Shawn Michaels over 20 years of amazing matches and angles, and always being awesome.

[Jeritron]

I feel like just a few more years would have moved Eddie way up the list for me. He had just arrived in the main event, and there was a lot left for him to do at the top. He could have told some great stories/had some great maches with Shawn, HHH, Edge and the newer guys like Orton and Cena.

[Loose Cannon]

Hogan

[Loose Cannon]

You can make an argument for The Rock, but nobody will ever have the name recognition and status Hogan does. He's the Babe Ruth of Professional wrestling. Everyone knows Hulk Hogan.

[NoRoolz]

Not disagreeing with you, but everyone also knows The Rock. I'd say he established his name almost as much as Hogan did through wrestling.

[Loose Cannon]

I said you can make an argument for Rock. Those two are 1 and 2

[NoRoolz]

Just re-read your post, namely "you could make an argument for The Rock". Never mind :o

[NoRoolz]

Fuck you and your hyper speed reply

:heart:

[The Franchise]

The Rock is equal to Hogan in terms of being known. But thats because of his movies, Hogan is probably more known via wrestling. Nothing against Rocky, he will go down as one of the biggest and most important wrestlers of all-time and is way better than Hogan.

Also everyone who knows Hogan probably knows Stone Cold too...

[The Franchise]

I said you can make an argument for Rock. Those two are 1 and 2

Austin?

Didnt Vince say that Austin is the biggest draw in WWE history? Or broke all the records for merch, ratings, box office etc

[redoneja]

Hogan

[Loose Cannon]

:)

[Loose Cannon]

Austin?

Didnt Vince say that Austin is the biggest draw in WWE history? Or broke all the records for merch, ratings, box office etc

Austin is #3 for me. Hogan lasted a lot longer and stayed on top a lot longer then Austin. Yea I know some of you will bitch at me that Hogan was all about politics and that's why he stayed on top. Well he did it and he still made money in two different eras. Rock is ahead of Austin because he was just as popular outside wrestling as he was inside wrestling. He rose above the business

[Loose Cannon]

The Rock is equal to Hogan in terms of being known. But thats because of his movies, Hogan is probably more known via wrestling. Nothing against Rocky, he will go down as one of the biggest and most important wrestlers of all-time and is way better than Hogan.

Also everyone who knows Hogan probably knows Stone Cold too...

that's bullshit. you think the 45 year old mom who watched Hogan Knows Best knows who Steve Austin is?

You think all the fans of Rocky watched wrestling from 1998-2001? Totally disagree

Everyone knows Austin inside wrestling, but certainly not outside

[Loose Cannon]

by the way, my wife knows Hogan only through Mr Nanny and Hogan Knows Best. I told her to get me the last Austin DVD for Christmas a couple years ago and she had no clue who he was. Laugh if you will, but there you go.

[The Franchise]

that's bullshit. you think the 45 year old mom who watched Hogan Knows Best knows who Steve Austin is?

You think all the fans of Rocky watched wrestling from 1998-2001? Totally disagree

Everyone knows Austin inside wrestling, but certainly not outside

Well if her kids watched wrestling in the 90s then yeah probably
Are we talking about simply being "known" here or numbers? Because Vince has said that Austin is the biggest draw in history (it was when he was introducing Austin for The Condemned premiere or some WM 21, cant remember which one). If were talking about just being known then there isnt really any way to know for sure but Hogan probably has the edge, although I dont think by much.

[The Franchise]

Everyone knows Austin inside wrestling, but certainly not outside


That is simply not true. Austin was bigger than the business. He definitely is known mainstream, maybe not as much as Hogan or Rock but people who did not watch wrestling or werent big fans of it known Austin. Same with DX. Anyone who went to Junior High or Elementary in the 90s knows what "suck it" is and where it comes from

[The Franchise]

Also how does people knowing Rock or Hogan from their movies and TV shows have any affect on determining who is a better WRESTLER? If we are factoring outside stuff then I guess Brock Lesnar is like #3 all time

[Loose Cannon]

wow, you are making my head spin. you just don't get it much like a lot of people on here. you're thinking is one of a wrestling fan. I'll just say this

Hulk Hogan has been a household name since the early 80's. He's managed to keep himself in the spotlight for over 3 decades in not just wrestling, but in other forms of entertainment. People still want to see Hulk Hogan today in his late 50's and not just in wrestling. That's why he's the greatest of all-time.

[Jeritron]

Everything you're saying is true Loose Cannon, but like they said, how does that make him the greatest wrestler of alltime?
It just makes him the most recognizable one.

You're arguing something that isn't even on topic in this thread really.

[The Franchise]

I do get it. He is the biggest name in wrestling history. Being the most popular or most watched wrestler of all-time is huge but that doesnt make him the best wrestler. There are other factors to determining that which have pointed out in this thread. A big one being in ring ability.

[The Franchise]

Titanic is the most watched movie of all-time.... almost no one would argue it is the greatest...

[Anybody Thrilla]

The answer to this question should not be Hulk Hogan.

[The Franchise]

Its not Hulk Hogan.

[Anybody Thrilla]

Also, the more I think about it, I feel the longevity of Shawn Michaels may even give him the edge over Kurt Angle.

[Anybody Thrilla]

I still vote Kurt Angle though because I love America.

[Loose Cannon]

it's the same argument I have with the Better Wrestler thing. I don't look at these questions (whether it's greatest, best or whatever wrestler) without taking into account everything. To me Hogan is the greatest wrestler of all-time. I say it everytime this question comes up. He's always been th Babe Ruth of wrestling in my eyes.

[Jeritron]

Yes, but then again you're always going to have to accept that people don't consider Babe Ruth the greatest player of alltime. They look at more well rounded players like Willie Mays and Mickie Mantle, who are not as recognizable or famous

[Jeritron]

I get it though LC. You've always been more into the moments and the spectacle of pro wrestling, and I understand and respect that.
On the flip side, I agree with you about some clouded fans within the wrestling community who can't see the bigger picture.
I'm a mix of both.

[Loose Cannon]

it's the same argument I have with the Better Wrestler thing. I don't look at these questions (whether it's greatest, best or whatever wrestler) without taking into account everything. To me Hogan is the greatest wrestler of all-time. I say it everytime this question comes up. He's always been th Babe Ruth of wrestling in my eyes.

[Jeritron]

Titanic is the most watched movie of all-time.... almost no one would argue it is the greatest...

Adjustment for inflation is key.
Movies like Star Wars, Gone With The Wind, and Wizard of Oz didn't track nearly as much money as Titanic at the box office, but since tickets were so much cheaper then the numbers are irrelevant.
Way more people went to see those.

I'm just being a nitpicker though. Not much better than Matt Boone right now

[Loose Cannon]

fuckin internet connection

[The Franchise]

yeah I can see why Loose Cannon sees Hogan as the greatest. more power to him. I just dont think that is enough to determine the best. All the other stuff factored in is why its either Angle or HBK for me and apparently most people in the thread

On the flip side, I agree with you about some clouded fans within the wrestling community who can't see the bigger picture.
I'm a mix of both.

You mean the crazy IWC smarks that hate everything? I hope I am not being one of those :n::n:

[Loose Cannon]

I get it though LC. You've always been more into the moments and the spectacle of pro wrestling, and I understand and respect that.
On the flip side, I agree with you about some clouded fans within the wrestling community who can't see the bigger picture.
I'm a mix of both.

yes Exactly. :y: I was just going to post this. I think I just look at wrestling with more of a business mind and I know most here don't. I don't hold in ring ability and promos in as high regard as the making money aspect. Plus when you talk about good in ring ability, what are we talking about? Ultimate Warrior got over with 5 moves. Christopher Daniels (as an example) has a lot of flashy moves, but he's never been able to really get over. This is why I can't stand these arguments.

[Anybody Thrilla]

But who are you, LC? A fan or Vince McMahon? Would you rather watch a Hulk Hogan match than a Christopher Daniels match? How about a Kurt Angle or Shawn Michaels match?

[Jeritron]

Maybe he'd just rather not watch matches at all

[Loose Cannon]

lol you guys are reading my mind tonight. I was just going to post that too about what matches I like more

In all honesty and I know I'll get some "you're fucking insane" looks, but I'd rather watch Hogan vs McMahon from Mania 19 then HBK vs Jericho from the same show

[Loose Cannon]

And I'd easily watch Hogan over Daniels any day of the week 12 months over

[Juan]

lol you guys are reading my mind tonight. I was just going to post that too.

In all honesty and I know I'll get some "you're fucking insane" looks, but I'd rather watch Hogan vs McMahon from Mania 19 then HBK vs Jericho from the same show

wow

[Jeritron]

Well I can't see that, seeing as Jericho/Michaels told just as much of a story and did it better

[The Show Off]

Who is the best pro professional wrestler ever?

I'm sure this thread has been done before, but I personally feel the answer is quite clear.

I'm not talking about the most charismatic, most technically-sound, best high-flyer, most entertaining, best promo cutter, best big money draw, best heel or face, or whatever.

I'm saying if you were to rate every wrestler in every possibe catoegory that you could judge them on (which I'm not asking you to do), who would come out on top?

Hulk Hogan? "Stone Cold" Steve Austin? Shawn Michaels? Ric Flair? The Rock? Bret Hart? Someone else?

Explain.....

Hogan only ranks in the top 5 of 2 of the criteria to be the best wrestler ever... Biggest Draw and Chrisma...

No one is going to debate that the two most well known wrestlers of all time are Hogan and The Rock, but simply being a draw doesn't make you the greatest wrestler of all time. It's just one aspect of a greater mosaic.

If you went by biggest draw Tom Cruise would be the greatest actor of all time.

I'll ruin the suspense... he's not.

[Evil Vito]

<font color=goldenrod>For me, I basically tie Flair and Angle, with Michaels as a very close third. Put a gun to my head, I'd probably take Flair as the top one over Angle just because of the sheer length of time that he's been incredible.

I know some have said Flair's hung around too long/tarnished his legacy or whatever, but I have to give the guy credit. Right around the time WCW was dying, Flair's in-ring skills were declining and whatnot........I think pretty much everybody thought he was done, but then I feel he turned himself around in a big way and I honestly felt he deserved one last title run at some point around 03-05. Even the tail-end of his WWE career wasn't even that bad in my eyes.</font>

[Loose Cannon]

yea, bad example cause that was a pretty good storyline. I looked up the card and a good example would be that tag match with Team Angle, Guerrero and Benoit. I was looking foward to Vince/Hogan then that match

[The Show Off]

it's the same argument I have with the Better Wrestler thing. I don't look at these questions (whether it's greatest, best or whatever wrestler) without taking into account everything. To me Hogan is the greatest wrestler of all-time. I say it everytime this question comes up. He's always been th Babe Ruth of wrestling in my eyes.

It's the lovely thing about opinion, you put more weight at drawing power, where as I put more weight into my personal entertainment. None of use are wrong, just as long as we all know none of us are really right.

[Loose Cannon]

can't argue with that

[DaVe]

Yeah, Austin is definitely mainstream. Here in Aus - a place where WCW was the #1 company for some stupid reason even until it was finished - each time you bring up badasses or fighting for whatever reason, Austin is always mentioned (like in newspapers or whatnot). Don't think Rock is anywhere near as big as Austin here. Hogan? prolly, but I hadn't heard anything about him at all for the last decade, other than last year when he was promoting his shows in Aus.

Edit: lol, didn't even realise there was a 3rd page.