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BigCrippyZ
02-12-2010, 03:14 AM
This is my first post on these forums and I'd really like some feedback on it. I know this may be a long post but I'd really appreciate if you guys would actually give it a good thorough read through.

Having read all the posts over the past few months about what's going wrong in the industry, WWE/TNA, etc, I've been listening and taking into account everyone's opinions. This past weekend I put in some of the WWF Attitude era DVD's I grew up with from 1998-2001 when they were at their peak and getting huge ratings. I noticed some major differences between what's going on in the WWE today and what happened back in the Attitude era. A lack of structure and a lack of character development are resulting in a lack of realism that I feel are ultimately the result of the brand split and are really hurting the product today.

First of all, regarding a lack of realism, I understand that pro wrestling is scripted. I also understood that it was scripted back when I was young watching it every week during the Attitude Era. The realism I am referring to is this. Despite the fact that it is scripted, during the Attitude era everyone involved in the program(s) treated it as though it was serious and a real athletic competition. From the wrestlers, to the characters, to the announcers, to the storylines, to the matches/results, everything was almost always believable and could be taken as real if you didn't know any better. Sure every once in a while they would go over the top with it and you could poke some holes in a couple of things. But I'd say 95% of the time, everything was believable. Let's delve into some of the structure flaws which hurt the realism.

First of all, there was always ONE World Champion. You always knew who the TOP guy in the company was. He was either the World Champion or feuding/competing for the World title. Sure the top guy might change every so often, but you always knew who he was and/or what he was doing storyline and structure wise. Can anyone tell me who THE TOP GUY in the WWE is right now? Is it Taker? Is it Sheamus? Orton? Cena? HHH? HBK? Batista? Mysterio? Edge? Punk? Jericho? Just who the hell is it? There are too many "MAIN EVENTERS" (or "former main eventers") who jump from storyline to storyline, feud to feud so often that you don't know who the top guy or even top guys are.

Okay, on to something else. There used to be a "rankings system" that the announcers and wrestlers would occasionally bring up in reference to determining who was going to get a shot at which title and/or be given main even status, etc. Sure it wasn't a HUGE thing, but it was just that little something extra that would add in that little extra sense of realism to the product. It was generally understood that to get to the World title you had to win the European and then Intercontinental titles first to be considered a ready and viable candidate for the World title. Take The Rock, HHH and Austin for example. They all feuded and fought over the IC title throughout 1997-98 before moving up for the World title in 1999-2000.

Another structural flaw is the fact that there's no organization to the shows. In the Attitude era, it was INCREDIBLY rare to have a main event/title match or former main eventers or upper card guys have a match in the opening half hour or midpoint of the show. It's one thing to have a interview/backstage angle/segment around these spots, but it takes away from their upper/main event prestige if they're having matches at these points in the show. Treat it with a little more realism than that. Ya know, kinda like an actual wrestling event.

Let's move onto character relationships and stables. This kinda falls into a lack of both character development and structure I think. What ever happened to the huge stables and relationships that used to exist in the Attitude Era? There were characters and stables and they all had relationships that evolved over time and affected how they would act and react towards things.

You had stables like DX, the Nation of Domination, The Corporation, the Ministry of Darkness, and later the Corporate Ministry, McMahon-Helmsley Faction, etc. All of these stables feuded with each other in different ways and evolved over time organically and it appeared natural and BELIEVABLE. What stables are there now? Legacy? Straight Edge Society? DX? Really? Three member stables. These are hardly stables in my book. I understand that people will slowly be added and slowly leave each group, but come on.

A stable to me should have enough members to have or be involved in 2-3 matches each show each week and not get stale. Take Legacy for example. There's only so many DiBiade/Rhodes tag matches and Randy Orton vs random main eventer/upper midcarder I can take week after week before the STABLE gets STALE! If they had a couple other lower/midcard members you could be changing things up every week and have things evolve and it wouldn't be a re-hash. Another thing I think a truly powerful stable should have is an authority figure or someone with some type of power/influence.

Another flaw to me is character relationships. In the Attitude era the characters were all interconnected because EVERYONE's ultimate, unwritten/unspoken goal, from the jobbers to the main eventer's was to work their way through the ranks and become the ONE World Champion. This was just understood, even if it was obvious a particular wrestler would never be World Champ. Characters, storylines and feuds would spill over into one another and evolve over time slowly and naturally. Even characters that weren't in stables/groups would use (and bring up in promos) past feuds, storylines, results, etc and use them to take sides, act/react a certain way, etc.

Speaking of characters, what the hell happened to having BELIEVABLE authority figures? Authority figures would go out of their way to fire/suspend/arrest, lock people out of the buildings, and just make it difficult on the characters they didn't believe were profitable, champions, stars, etc. If you're going to have someone in charge of a show/company, make it believable. In the Attitude era (and even in WCW at that time) the authority figures were always either a rich and powerful company executives or a wrestling legend/former champion and were constantly getting involved in the main event/world title storyline(s) and concerned with marketability, profit and ratings. You didn't have lame former announcers/commentators like Adamle or a random former referee (Teddy Long) in charge of a whole show/company. What type of company/organization would give an announcer or referee executive control over a whole company/show? It's just not believable or realistic.

Another issue with character development/realism is the characters/storylines were always believable in the Attitude era. You never had a guy like The Rock or Austin come out and single-handedly take out an entire group of guys AND a monster/giant a`la John Cena. Not without having help from someone else or AT LEAST taking some kind of punishment/resistance and then getting the upper hand. Now a giant or monster like Kane/Big Show/Taker might come out and dominate and take out a whole group/stable but Cena is FAR from a giant/monster. Again, not BELIEVABLE.

Now some of these things may not seem like a big deal in the grand scheme of things. But it's the little things that add up to a more realistic show and I think, a great overall experience. Now some of you might be saying, "But I know it's not real, so it doesn't matter how realistic you make it seem. Plus, I watch it to escape reality!" That's a great point, I watch it to escape reality too. To me though, the more realistic something seems, the easier it is to believe and it's more likely I am going to focus on the show, be entertained by the show and be able to escape reality.

Not only that, but if it seems more realistic, I'm going to actually care more. If I know it's not real AND it's NOT BELIEVABLE, what's the point of caring who wins and looses and what happens with the characters?

It's not that I'm expecting it to be totally believable and/or totally realistic. That would be impossible, not to mention unrealistic. The problem with the product today is it's not realistic or believable ENOUGH.

I know this was long and I appreciate you reading this. Any thoughts?

Rammsteinmad
02-12-2010, 03:54 AM
Good post. You're not saying anything new, but it's great to see you have a good understanding of wrestling, though some will agree and others will disagree.

Welcome to the forums. :y:

Rammsteinmad
02-12-2010, 03:56 AM
Another thing I'd like to add, I've always felt the same way about stables today. Back in the day there were plenty of stables all feuding amongst themselves, which not only spiced things up for TV, but also gave plenty of people stories to work with.

And of course, stables usually consisted of more than three people.

Favre4Ever
02-12-2010, 04:53 AM
I really like your comparison between stables in the Attitude Era and the ones that exist in today's wrestling. I think one of my favorites was the McMahon-Helmsly faction, because that group was the centerpiece of the show. Everything else was really built up around it. I think a great advantage that creating a legitimate stable like that gives you is creating a sense of black and white in terms of the positions of the rest of the roster.

In that year leading up to Wrestlemania 16, there was great definition between the heels and the faces. Now, however, notice when John Cena is getting beat down or something, odds greatly against him, when the "flood of face wrestlers" rush the ring to save him, who does it usually consist of? Goldust. Mark Henry. Evan Bourne. Insert mid card face wrestler with no identity here. Not good.

BigCrippyZ
02-12-2010, 05:17 AM
F4E - I agree, I really loved the McMahon-Helmsley Faction/Era. It was a really good base to build the rest of the show and the roster around, even those that weren't in the stable but would still occasionally align with or help them. Although I can't deny that The Corporation is also right up there as a fave for me.

Ramms - Thanks for the welcome. I agree. We just need bigger stables not to mention larger stables.

theexample
02-12-2010, 06:08 AM
The Corporation was a brilliant stable because it featured and made a lot of midcarders too.

midLfinger
02-12-2010, 06:17 AM
It seems to me, though I may be completely wrong, that the WWE doesn't focus so much on factions anymore because, generally, one or two guys get put over and the rest are filler. The WWE seems more focused on creating individual stars now (hence the slow death of tag team wrestling). This falls in line with there being two (or three even) World Heavyweight Champs. They don't want ONE top guy.

I believe the thought process is that when there's ONE top guy, a guy like The Rock or Stone Cold (or Goldberg or Lesnar or Hogan or Angle), that guy can leave the company and retire or go make movies or jump ship to the competition. In cases like that, the WWE gets left with the supporting cast of stables and the competition (be it UFC or TNA) will have megastars.

Think about it: what if, in 1999, Triple H, The Rock, Undertaker and Austin signed with WCW? Well, Triple H led DX so WWE would have Road Dogg, X-Pac and 'The One' Billy Gunn. The Rock led the Nation and Corporation so WWE would have D-Lo, Mark Henry, the Godfather, Ken Shamrock and the Bossman. Undertaker led the Ministry so they'd have the Brood, Naked Mideon, the Acolytes and Viscera. Austin was the top guy. Who's gonna fuss for the WWE Title? Ken Shamrock and Mick Foley?

Sure that'd be a massive signing by WCW but what if in '99 Undertaker and Austin left due to injury (like they did in real life) and the Rock was offered a movie and Triple H signed with WCW?

Basically, stables make ONE guy. There are some exceptions but, generally, one guy gets the rub. Horseman=Flair, DX=Triple H, Nation=The Rock, Ministry=Undertaker, nWo=Hogan/Outsiders, Hart Foundation=Bret Hart.

Stables actually, usually, hurt three careers and skyrocket one career.

A huge exception to the rule is Evolution. Triple H and Flair wanted to hand-pick two guys who they thought could profit most from a rub and were very influential in aiding Orton and Batista's pushes.

Legacy is an attempt to recreate the Evolution experiment and that's why it exists.

WWE is trying to avoid what happened when they bought WCW. None of the stars wanted to sign and WWE ended up with second string guys. They're trying to avoid what happened when Lesnar quit, Angle was hurt and they HAD to push JBL to the World Title picture because they had no heel who could carry the belt on SmackDown (and, mercifully, JBL turned out to do a terrific job at getting heat on the mic).

As for the ONE champion thing: did you watch when the Undisputed Champ would appear on one show and feud with someone on that show and ignore the other? It didn't work well. Instead of burrying three guys in a faction you get one guy burrying an entire show.

The situation isn't ideal at all but a better idea is hard to come by.

BigCrippyZ
02-12-2010, 07:53 AM
MidLFinger, I don't actually disagree with you from a competition/injury/retirement standpoint regarding there being ONE top guy in the co. I think you may have misunderstood my point though.

I was saying that there is no longer a consistent focus on ONE top guy in the show/company. Not that there can't potentially be multiple TOP guys on the roster. In 1999 for example, there was Taker, Rock, HHH, Austin and to a degree Foley & Show. I think it's safe to say that Austin & Rock were the top guys of 1999 and Rock and HHH were the top guys of 2000, because at least one of them was almost always feuding over, chasing, or holding the World title during those respective years.

The purpose of having stables I think, is to give those other potential main eventer's (in 1999, Taker, HHH, Foley, Show) something to do, and maintain their credibility in case something were to happen to the top guy(s), Rock or Austin (i.e., injury, jumping ship, movies, etc.) in 1999 for example or whatever year. If something did happen, another of the potential main eventer's leading another stable could step in their place because they still have the main event credibility as a stable leader and from feuding with another potential main eventer who's leading another stable. Not that every potential main eventer would have to lead a stable but it's a good potential option to have I think. If the stable leader (potential main eventer) can help make or give the rub to other guys in the future, like HBK did in DX for Triple H and Taker did in the Ministry for Edge & Christian, I think that's another great reason to have stables.

I don't agree with you though that stables usually hurt three careers and make one career. I mean, Hogan didn't need a push/boost from the nWo, nor did Taker with the Ministry or HBK with DX. They were already considered main event/world title status guys so it didn't hurt them but it allowed them a fresh storyline and an opportunity to make younger guys. Edge & Christian probably wouldn't have had success had it not been for the Ministry and HHH got a huge boost by being in DX with Shawn.

My ultimate point is they could have kept up their ratings (or at least higher than they are now) had they never purchased WCW or at least not done the brand split. For example, they would never have had to worry about putting the title on JBL if they hadn't had a brand split and instead had ONE World champion. That's where WWE really started to loose me, when they made JBL a World champion. A guy who had never won anything but the hardcore and tag titles at that point suddenly gets thrown into the World title mix and wins. And as far as having ONE champion, they wouldn't have to bury an entire show if there was no brand split and one consistent roster. Not that getting rid of the brand split and consolidating to one roster is ideal since they would have to make some serious roster cuts. I think it would make things more consistent and realistic to have ONE roster and ONE World Champion and result in a better product.

Londoner
02-12-2010, 08:12 AM
Been watching old wwf ppv's from that era myself to recently and i have to agree with your original post.

BigDaddyCool
02-12-2010, 09:29 AM
Shut up, newb.

Gertner
02-12-2010, 09:30 AM
Christ. Go find a gf dickhead.

BigDaddyCool
02-12-2010, 09:32 AM
Seriously, don't post walls of text complaining about flaws from old ass ppvs. It isn't relevant.

Sixx
02-12-2010, 09:35 AM
Wouldn't it be easier if you just went with:

ZOMG! ATTITUDE ERA >>>>> NOW

Speak internet.

AKin3D
02-12-2010, 09:39 AM
Stables actually, usually, hurt three careers and skyrocket one career.



No, not really. The only stables I can think of that this was the case were ones with to many members or just really unpopular, like NWO version 4, DOA, or Los Boricuas. Most of the "other guys" ganged popularity and notability in the stables. And something BigCrippyZ didn't bring up is at the time of all these stables, all the belts had meaning to them. So these other guys would be having great storylines and matches trying to get "the lower" belts, so their stable could show they were the best. Then after the stables came to end, we had tons of back history set up to help build these guys up to the next level or Hunters Glass Ceiling, whatever came first.

Oh BTW Ken at one time was worth fussing over. Him and Owen made me watch RAW at times. I do also believe he did have a little "Title push" maybe I'm wrong. I'm thinking somewhere in or around Kane's Title Push..oops I won the title time. Foley...Do I really have to say anything.

Next, I'd like to say, I wasn't one for the Brand Split, or having two champs, but both ideas grew on me. The areas were they keep failing at is that ranking system and really making the IC and US belts imporant. It seems like everytime the IC storyline starts to get hot, they stomp the fire out and piss on it. I don't know, maybe they're afarid of having the Mid-Cards being more popular than the Main Eventers. Then with the shows you have this unblance level of Face and Heels. This isn't a hard thing to fix, yet they make it seem like it.

All in all I guess I think the thing wrong today is that missing ranking system. I kind of miss watching guys work their way up to IC and then start to flirt with the Main Eventers.

Jeritron
02-12-2010, 09:51 AM
I don't think stables always hurt careers. Maybe you could make a case for only one guy continuing on to fame after one dispands, but that's not always the case either. Plus "that guy" is usually someone destined for success anyways.
The supporting characters are usually role players. Most of the time they're guys who had no future. If anything, stables have given new life to floundering wrestlers in the past.

DAMN iNATOR
02-12-2010, 09:57 AM
No, not really. The only stables I can think of that this was the case were ones with to many members or just really unpopular, like NWO version 4, DOA, or Los Boricuas. Most of the "other guys" ganged popularity and notability in the stables. And something BigCrippyZ didn't bring up is at the time of all these stables, all the belts had meaning to them. So these other guys would be having great storylines and matches trying to get "the lower" belts, so their stable could show they were the best. Then after the stables came to end, we had tons of back history set up to help build these guys up to the next level or Hunters Glass Ceiling, whatever came first.

Oh BTW Ken at one time was worth fussing over. Him and Owen made me watch RAW at times. I do also believe he did have a little "Title push" maybe I'm wrong. I'm thinking somewhere in or around Kane's Title Push..oops I won the title time. Foley...Do I really have to say anything.

Next, I'd like to say, I wasn't one for the Brand Split, or having two champs, but both ideas grew on me. The areas were they keep failing at is that ranking system and really making the IC and US belts imporant. It seems like everytime the IC storyline starts to get hot, they stomp the fire out and piss on it. I don't know, maybe they're afarid of having the Mid-Cards being more popular than the Main Eventers. Then with the shows you have this unblance level of Face and Heels. This isn't a hard thing to fix, yet they make it seem like it.

All in all I guess I think the thing wrong today is that missing ranking system. I kind of miss watching guys work their way up to IC and then start to flirt with the Main Eventers.

RE: The text emphasized in bold from your post...what about what they've been doing so far with The Miz? I think they're doing fine keeping the US belt on him, as he's held it for over 5 months, AND just recently added the Unified (World & WWE) Tag belts to go on and become the first superstar ever in WWE to hold 3 belts at once...THAT is how you build a future star to be groomed for a world title run someday, and he's not the best in the ring right now, but his mic work is pretty great, and with just a slightly improved skillset in the ring, he could be a future WWE or World champion for sure.

Londoner
02-12-2010, 10:43 AM
Wait, whats going on? So many long posts and Noid hasn't joined in yet.:eek:

DAMN iNATOR
02-12-2010, 10:44 AM
Maybe he's still workin' on that novel...

Steveviscious89
02-12-2010, 12:49 PM
You know I agree with this, but I really have to think about when I first started watching and compare it to now. My first exposure to wrestling was like...well...it was kind of like playing a good video game for the first time. You have to figure out how everything works and you usually get surprised along the way. After you play it numerous times, it becomes monotonous. That's not to say that wrestling is monotonous right now, although some might say that. It's just that as fans grow older, they become increasingly difficult to impress due to their experience with the product. I mean neither company can do a whole heck of a lot to surprise me at this point because I've seen everything already. Every now and then you get taken off guard, like with Hogan and Hart coming back. But as usual, a few weeks of that and it's old hat again. But, all things considered, better development of characters and such would make things at least a couple levels more believable to people who've followed the business for fifteen years or more.

thedamndest
02-12-2010, 12:58 PM
Teddy Long started out as a referee in kayfabe worked his way up to General Manager. It's the same as starting in the mail room and becoming middle manger. You can't quibble over something like that and accept everything in the Attitude as "serious athletic competition" when you account for all the ridiculous supernatural Undertaker stories.

The Gold Standard
02-12-2010, 01:51 PM
Good post. You're not saying anything new, but it's great to see you have a good understanding of wrestling, though some will agree and others will disagree.

Welcome to the forums. :y:

Rammsteinmad
02-12-2010, 05:53 PM
Reading through some of the posts in this thread, I've come to one decisive conclusion that hopefully everyone can agree on.

We can bicker and argue and exchange opinions all we like about stables and not enough/too many main eventers etc. But at the end of the day it's all totally moot anyway. Y'know why?

















Cena Wins.

parkmania
02-12-2010, 06:14 PM
Cena wins.

This, and:
Vince has lost touch with reality

XL
02-12-2010, 09:06 PM
Teddy Long started out as a referee in kayfabe worked his way up to General Manager. It's the same as starting in the mail room and becoming middle manger. You can't quibble over something like that and accept everything in the Attitude as "serious athletic competition" when you account for all the ridiculous supernatural Undertaker stories.
TD, you can't go round punching holes in people's theories like that. This argument works mainly based on it's totally biased opinions (i.e. everything in the Attitude Era was awesome/everything today sucks) don't ruin it!

XL
02-12-2010, 09:20 PM
I think the business has evolved way beyond comparison with anything that has come before.

I am one of those guys that doesn't see a guy like Edge as a legit Main Eventer in comparison to someone like Austin or The Rock and I attribute a lot of that to the fact that for me he will always carry the stigma of being one of two champions in the Brand Split Era.

But what can they seriously do about it now? Cull 2/3 of the roster?

Let's say we streamline Raw and SD! back into one roster (I'll exclude ECW due to it's transition to NXT), we have to keep the following guys: HHH, Taker, HBK, Cena, Batista, Edge, Jericho, Orton, CM Punk, Mysterio and let's say Sheamus as guys recently involved in the title pictures.

That's one crowded Main Event scene if you ask me. Two of those guys will fued over the belt leaving 9 others to fill the rest of the card.

Add to that the likes of Miz, Show, DiBiase, Morrison, Christian, Truth, McIntyre, etc and you're 4 hours of TV a week are pretty much full.

It's a big ask for these lower card guys to get up to Main Event status if we already have 9 Main Eventers ahead of them.

I think TNA have a similar problem now: Too many guys, not enough TV time.

I've been watching the last few TNA shows and we sometimes have to wait 2 weeks to get a resolution from something that happened on another show. That kills the momentum of the wrestler/fued for me.

Comparing the modern wrestling landscape to anything that went before - including the Attitude Era - is pretty moot if you ask me. The business (or at least WWE) has changed too much.

[That's not to say that improvements can't be made.]

Loose Cannon
02-12-2010, 09:27 PM
Great post. welcome to the boards. I agree with every single thing you said. It actually sounded like something I would of posted back in the day. Here's my thoughts on why things are so different now though.

I've said before on here that the wrestling side of the business has just taken a back seat to the entertainment side. Yes, wrestling and entertainment have coesisted in the WWE for a while, but to me it was always a wrestling show with entertainment. Now and days, it just seems like an entertainment show that happens to have wrestling matches on it.

Especially on Raw with all the guest hosts, a lot of cheesy comedy and no real thought behind the writing. It's so straight foward these days. No more cliff hangers, no more suspense, no more surprise. I think a lot of it has to do with them putting so much emphasis on these guest hosts and how to get them involved that they don't really pay much attention to writing good stores.

Loose Cannon
02-12-2010, 09:52 PM
I think the business has evolved way beyond comparison with anything that has come before.

I am one of those guys that doesn't see a guy like Edge as a legit Main Eventer in comparison to someone like Austin or The Rock and I attribute a lot of that to the fact that for me he will always carry the stigma of being one of two champions in the Brand Split Era.

But what can they seriously do about it now? Cull 2/3 of the roster?

Let's say we streamline Raw and SD! back into one roster (I'll exclude ECW due to it's transition to NXT), we have to keep the following guys: HHH, Taker, HBK, Cena, Batista, Edge, Jericho, Orton, CM Punk, Mysterio and let's say Sheamus as guys recently involved in the title pictures.

That's one crowded Main Event scene if you ask me. Two of those guys will fued over the belt leaving 9 others to fill the rest of the card.

Add to that the likes of Miz, Show, DiBiase, Morrison, Christian, Truth, McIntyre, etc and you're 4 hours of TV a week are pretty much full.

It's a big ask for these lower card guys to get up to Main Event status if we already have 9 Main Eventers ahead of them.

I think TNA have a similar problem now: Too many guys, not enough TV time.

I've been watching the last few TNA shows and we sometimes have to wait 2 weeks to get a resolution from something that happened on another show. That kills the momentum of the wrestler/fued for me.

Comparing the modern wrestling landscape to anything that went before - including the Attitude Era - is pretty moot if you ask me. The business (or at least WWE) has changed too much.

[That's not to say that improvements can't be made.]

well two problems with a crowded Main event scene is that you really only have one big show in town, so most top guys don't leave. Then you have young guys being pushes very rapidly and it gets crowded. Give them all this TV time and you get the same matches over and over

Go back and look at WM22. The main event was John Cena vs HHH. How many times have John Cena and HHH been involved in a match (tagging togther or against each other) since then? It's a lot.

TGR
02-12-2010, 11:01 PM
Basically, stables make ONE guy. There are some exceptions but, generally, one guy gets the rub. Horseman=Flair, DX=Triple H, Nation=The Rock, Ministry=Undertaker, nWo=Hogan/Outsiders, Hart Foundation=Bret Hart.

Stables actually, usually, hurt three careers and skyrocket one career.

Stables may only really "make" one or two guys, but they can easily breathe life into a career that's somewhat waning, and prolong it long enough for it to become sustainable - and even successful. E&C, and the APA (Particularly Bradshaw), are both good examples of this from the Ministry of Darkness alone. The Union was good to the people who weren't in the Corporate Ministry at the time, the Brood put both the Hardy Boyz and Edge and Christian on the map, Legacy has produced Cody and Ted - both very solid newcomers in their own right.

The advantage in the back to a stable is that younger wrestlers can benefit by working more closely with an old vet (See: Ministry, Brood, Evolution, even the Straight-Edge Society to a certain extent) and be peripherially involved in the main event that way. That sort of exposure is invaluable - it helps generate new stars.

Where would Dwayne Johnson be without the Nation of Domination?

Favre4Ever
02-13-2010, 01:23 AM
Stables may only really "make" one or two guys, but they can easily breathe life into a career that's somewhat waning, and prolong it long enough for it to become sustainable - and even successful. E&C, and the APA (Particularly Bradshaw), are both good examples of this from the Ministry of Darkness alone.


:y:

Another good example I can think of is Right to Censor. Here we have two gimmicks that were were in existence for quite some time (those of The Big Valbowski and The Godfather) and were starting to run out of air. I think a lot of times stables like this might not always work out GREAT, but they breathe life into a career like the above mentioned.

And sometimes, being in a stable like one of these can make the original gimmick even MORE popular when the character inevitably reverts back.

Favre4Ever
02-13-2010, 01:24 AM
Not that Val Venis and the Godfather are examples of THAT lol.

thedamndest
02-13-2010, 12:50 PM
well two problems with a crowded Main event scene is that you really only have one big show in town, so most top guys don't leave. Then you have young guys being pushes very rapidly and it gets crowded. Give them all this TV time and you get the same matches over and over

Go back and look at WM22. The main event was John Cena vs HHH. How many times have John Cena and HHH been involved in a match (tagging togther or against each other) since then? It's a lot.

Part of the reason that young guys get pushes earlier is that they have no PPV room for non-title matches. Thay have one PPV a year called Night of Champions, but if you look at it, basically every PPV is a Night of Champions. You can't develop an under card that way. So you either push them, or they sit around and put guys over until you boot them out.