Better Wrestler #132

[Supreme Olajuwon]

http://www.accelerator3359.com/Wrestling/pictures/martel2.jpg
"The Model" Rick Martel


VS


http://www.wrestlingworld.it/Historical/Biografie/shanedouglas/10ecw.jpg
"The Franchise" Shane Douglas



3 days.

<select><option selected="selected">Better Wrestler History</option><option>#1.RVD vs CM Punk (34-19)</option><option>#2.RVD vs Santino Marella (36-4)</option><option>#3.RVD vs "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig (15-23)</option><option>#4."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Tully Blanchard (30-5)</option><option>#5."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Chris Jericho (15-23)</option><option>#6.Chris Jericho vs Brock Lesnar (34-10)</option><option>#7.Chris Jericho vs William Regal (38-14)</option><option>#8.Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guerrero (21-23)</option><option>#9.Eddie Guerrero vs Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat (26-7)</option><option>#10.Eddie Guerrero vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (26-19)</option><option>#11.Eddie Guerrero vs Diamond Dallas Page (39-8)</option><option>#12.Eddie Guerrero vs "Stone Cold" Steve Austin(19-28)</option><option>#13."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Chris Benoit (32-13)</option><option>#14."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (29-10)</option><option>#15."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Sting (36-16)</option><option>#16."Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (32-31)</option><option>#17.Hulk Hogan vs John Cena (15-24)</option><option>#18.John Cena vs Lex Luger (32-6)</option><option>#19.John Cena vs Ultimate Warrior (29-18)</option><option>#20.John Cena vs Dean Malenko (9-40)</option><option>#21.Dean Malenko vs Billy Kidman (31-7)</option><option>#22.Dean Malenko vs Ultimo Dragon (22-15)</option><option>#23.Dean Malenko vs Taz (15-17)</option><option>#24.Taz vs Sabu (38-2)</option><option>#25.Taz vs Jeff Hardy (25-16)</option><option>#26.Taz vs Bam Bam Bigelow (26-12)</option><option>#27.Taz vs Triple H (24-22)</option><option>#28.Edge vs Christian Cage (22-23)</option><option>#29.Christian Cage vs Raven (23-22)</option><option>#30.Christian vs Matt Hardy (22-19)</option><option>#31.Christian vs Ted Dibiase (24-25)</option><option>#32.Ted Dibiase vs "Rowdy" Roddy Piper (16-19)</option><option>#33."Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs "The British Bulldog" Davey Boy Smith (25-19)</option><option>#34."Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs Bob Backlund (26-6)</option><option>#35."Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs The Dynamite Kid (26-13)</option><option>#36."Rowdy Roddy Piper vs Ric Flair (16-19)</option><option>#37.Ric Flair vs Bret "The Hitman" Hart (19-17)</option><option>#38.Ric Flair vs Andre "The Giant" (28-5)</option><option>#39.Ric Flair vs Triple H (26-11)</option><option>#40.Ric Flair vs Shawn Michaels (20-26)</option><option>#41.Shawn Michaels vs Jushin "Thunder" Lyger (26-15)</option><option>#42.Shawn Michaels vs Perry Saturn (36-12)</option><option>#43.Shawn Michaels vs The Undertaker (29-11)</option><option>#44.Shawn Michaels vs The Rock (28-30)</option><option>#45.The Rock vs Trish Stratus (21-16)</option><option>#46.The Rock vs Lance Storm (22-19)</option><option>#47.The Rock vs Owen Hart (18-12)</option><option>#48.The Rock vs Kurt Angle (5-24)</option><option>#49.Kurt Angle vs Ken Shamrock (36-5)</option><option>#50.Kurt Angle vs Rob Van Dam (23-13)</option><option>#51.Kurt Angle vs "King Kong" Bruiser Brody (20-10)</option><option>#52.Kurt Angle vs Mick Foley (31-6)</option><option>#53.John Morrison vs Braden Walker (36-11)</option><option>#54.John Morrison vs Kofi Kingston (34-5)</option><option>#55.John Morrison vs CM Punk (14-28)</option><option>#56.CM Punk vs Tajiri (28-20)</option><option>#57.CM Punk vs Booker T (24-23)</option><option>#58.CM Punk vs Samoa Joe (53-4)</option><option>#59.CM Punk vs "Macho Man" Randy Savage (19-36)</option><option>#60."Macho Man" Randy Savage vs "Adorable" Adrian Adonis (47-2)</option><option>#61."Macho Man" Randy Savage vs Goldberg (49-4)</option><option>#62."Macho Man" Randy Savage vs "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig (31-38)</option><option>#63."Mr.Perfect" Curt Hennig vs "Diamond" Dallas Page (51-17)</option><option>#64."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs William Regal (37-18)</option><option>#65."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Brock Lesnar (48-4)</option><option>#66."Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig vs Eddie Guerrero (39-40)</option><option>#67. Eddie Guerrero vs Arn Anderson (33-22)</option><option>#68. Eddie Guerrero vs Jake "The Snake" Roberts (37-36)</option><option>#69. Eddie Guerrero vs Sting (41-16)</option><option>#70. Chris Jericho vs Eddie Guerrero (45-18)</option><option>#71. Chris Jericho vs Rey Mysterio (63-3)</option><option>#72. Chris Jericho vs Kevin Nash (54-12)</option><option>#73. Chris Jericho vs Dean Malenko (39-9)</option><option>#74. Chris Jericho vs Ricky Steamboat (41-30)</option><option>#75. Masato Tanaka vs Mike Awesome (24-18)</option><option>#76. Masato Tanaka vs X-Pac (34-16)</option><option>#77. Masato Tanaka vs Rikishi (36-13)</option><option>#78. Brian Pillman vs Masato Tanaka (31-13)</option><option>#79. Brian Pillman vs Road Dogg (44-7)</option><option>#80. Ultimo Dragon vs Brian Pillman (29-28)</option><option>#81. Ultimo Dragon vs Goldust (35-19)</option><option>#82. Ultimo Dragon vs Barry Windham (36-9)</option><option>#83. Ultimo Dragon vs Randy Orton (35-34)</option><option>#84. Edge vs Ultimo Dragon (48-8)</option><option>#85. Edge vs Jeff Hardy (54-5)</option><option>#86. Edge vs Razor Ramon</option><option>#87. Ted Dibiase vs Edge (39-33)</option><option>#88. Ted Dibiase vs Doink the Clown (59-4)</option><option>#89. Ted Dibiase vs Rick Rude (34-20)</option><option>#90. Ted Dibiase vs. Christian (39-32)</option><option>#91. Ted Dibiase vs. Bret Hart (24-55)</option><option>#92. Bret Hart vs. Scott Steiner (56-8)</option><option>#93. Bret Hart vs. Christopher Daniels (47-15)</option><option>#94. Bret Hart vs. Triple H (40-22)</option><option>#95. Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels (26-47)</option><option>#96. Shawn Michaels vs. Marty Jannetty (54-7)</option><option>#97. Shawn Michaels vs. Bryan Danielson (36-12)</option><option>#98. Shawn Michaels vs. Chris Benoit (38-33)</option><option>#99. Shawn Michaels vs. The Rock (44-34)</option><option>#100. Earthquake vs. Vader (10-65)</option><option>#101. Vader vs. Bam Bam Bigelow (33-32)</option><option>#102. Vader vs. The Great Muta (32-29)</option><option>#103. Vader vs. Mick Foley (16-42)</option><option>#104. Mick Foley vs. Al Snow (49-7)</option><option>#105. Mick Foley vs. Jerry Lynn (41-11)</option><option>#106. Mick Foley vs. Rob Van Dam (24-38)</option><option>#107. Rob Van Dam vs. Tommy Dreamer (52-4)</option><option>#108. Rob Van Dam vs. John Morrison (54-14)</option><option>#109. Rob Van Dam vs. Owen Hart (36-36)</option><option>#110. Rob Van Dam vs. The Undertaker (22-53)</option><option>#111. The Undertaker vs. Owen Hart (62-16)</option><option>#112. The Undertaker vs. Kane (63-3)</option><option>#113. The Undertaker vs. Diamond Dallas Page (51-18)</option><option>#114. The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair (44-43)</option><option>#115. John "Bradshaw" Layfield vs. Ron Simmons (33-25)</option><option>#116. John "Bradshaw" Layfield vs. Juventud Guerrera (28-19)</option><option>#117. John "Bradshaw" Layfield vs. The Big Show (25-39)</option><option>#118. The Big Show vs. Sid (50-10)</option><option>#119. The Big Show vs. Lance Storm (18-48)</option><option>#120. Lance Storm vs. Meng (65-7)</option><option>#121. Lance Storm vs. John Cena (53-18)</option><option>#122. Lance Storm vs. Sting (23-50)</option><option>#123. Sting vs. The Ultimate Warrior (57-18)</option><option>#124. Sting vs. Dusty Rhodes (50-24)</option><option>#125. Sting vs. CM Punk (41-32)</option><option>#126. Sting vs. Randy Savage (27-50)</option><option>#127. Randy Savage vs. Jim Duggan (65-7)</option><option>#128. Randy Savage vs. AJ Styles (64-13)</option><option>#129. Randy Savage vs. Booker T (61-16)</option><option>#130. Randy Savage vs. Roddy Piper (55-27)</option><option>#131. Rick Martel vs. Tito Santana (35-29)</option></select>

<select><option selected="selected">Better Wrestler Hall of Fame</option><option>"Stone Cold" Steve Austin</option><option>Taz</option><option>Kurt Angle</option><option>Chris Jericho</option><option>Shawn Michaels</option><option>The Undertaker</option><option>"Macho Man" Randy Savage</option></select>

[The One]

Douglas a hundred times over. I genuinely always regarded Martel as a joke. He never really did much for me as a fan. And you can say what you will about Douglas and how he just dropped F-bombs and made outlandish comments to get heat; but the man was at one point white hot. I don't care who you are, what you do, or how much you're pushed; it takes someone with some legit ability to get over to that point. I think Douglas is an incredibly under rated in ring performer, and frankly, I'd take a Franchise promo over about 99% of everyone else. Big Shane Douglas fan.

TOVO Fact: Tovo doesn't like tomatoes. It's not the taste, something about their texture doesn't appeal to him.

[muffalufagus]

Shane Douglas. I loved him in ECW.

[Rammsteinmad]

Martel.

I never liked Douglas, he's a one trick pony, and saying 'fuck' in every promo got boring ten years ago.

[Juan]

http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/pictures/04/triplethreat.jpg

[Jeritron]

I'm a big Franchise mark.

[Cuzziebro]

The Franchise is an awesome wrestler and he was one of the guys that made ECW amazing back in the day.

[LewisTheTruest]

Franchise. Throwing down the NWA belt, ftw!

[Nicky Fives]

Franchise had more of an Impact

[The Jayman]

I enjoyed The Franchise more than the Model

[Anybody Thrilla]

Rick Martel because he's a fucking model.

[jskinnyg]

The Franchise was a big dick, but good in his heyday, and way better than Martel...

[Loose Cannon]

Franchise had more of an Impact

no way. I would like to hear the argument before I post anything because if you look at both careers, I just don't see it

[sa]

Franchise

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Going with the Model here. As good as Douglas was in ECW, he was so terrible in WCW's final run.

[Rammsteinmad]

he was so terrible in WCW's final run.

And everything since...

[Joesgonnakillyou]

Going with the Model here. As good as Douglas was in ECW, he was so terrible in WCW's final run.

I agree, he was awful in the ring in WCW but his promo's were still good, and The Franchise in ECW beats anything Martel has ever done. Have to go with Douglas

[Loose Cannon]

and The Franchise in ECW beats anything Martel has ever done.

this is a crazy argument.

I've said before I rate these things not based on personal preferance, but on what they really did achieve in wreslting based on a number of things.

Let me just start with Douglas. Yes, he was over in ECW. Yes, he was thier World Champion. Yes, he was a great ECW_style promo. But we are talking ECW here. It's the Ring of Honor of today. It was not a National Promotion. It's TV show was on at like 2am on the east coast. It only ran shows in Philly. It was a Glorified Indy Fed for the longest time. So Shane Douglas was over to what? A couple thousand fans. fuck, I lived in NY the whole time ECW was on and I didn't even know about it until right before the TNN days.

Douglas' best run in my opinion was in WCW when he tagged with Ricky Steamboat in 93. That's when he really showcased his talent. He and Steamboat had a nice little run there. Then he went to WWF and had a decent run for a mid carder, but nothing special at all. I love how he always bitches about politics, but I don't buy that. he got just what he deserved. a nice midcard push.


In WCW in the late 90's, he somehow got to lead the Revolution stable, but I think everyone quickly realized that he was 4th best in a 4 man stable. he pretty much did nothing after that except suck it up in TNA.

So the one trick pony thing can certainly be argued with him.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Rick Martel

I could talk about one run of Martel's that puts everything Douglas did to bed. The AWA was at one of it's highest points business wise in 1984. They were very successful finiacially and definately competed on a National stage with WWF and Crockett. Anyone want to take a guess who was the AWA Champion for 19 months starting in May of 1984? Yep, you guessed it, Rick Martel. Now call me stupid, but if you're the World Champion of a company during a peak period then you've got to be doing something right.

By the way before that, Martel held the WWF Tag Titles twice with Tony Garea.

Fast Foward a year or two and Martel is now on top of the Tag Title scene in the WWF during the HEIGHT of the Tag Team era Boom. Strike Force was one of the most over babyface teams the WWE ever had. Again he's a big fish in a big pond when business was at a peak.


Then you go to the Model Years and you could argue he was just a midcarder like Douglas was in WWF during these years. No argument there from me.


Then Martel breathes new life into his career and has a nice little TV Title run in WCW during a time when again business was hot in WCW. Unfortunately he was injured soon after and that's all she wrote.

All in all though, I'd say Martel had the more successful career.

:wave:

[Kapoutman]

Rick Martel because he's a fucking model.

[Nark Order]

Was and always have been a big Shane Douglas fan and I don't think he's really gotten his fair shake in the recognition deptartment of wrestling history.

[St. Jimmy]

no way. I would like to hear the argument before I post anything because if you look at both careers, I just don't see it

One of these men started a revolution, the start of a new company, and bascially took a shit on the NWA world title - The other was Rick Martel.

[Loose Cannon]

the argument you bring to the table is a wrestling storyline? lol wow. mark

[Xerzes]

Rick Martel because he's a fucking model.

[Theo Dious]

the argument you bring to the table is a wrestling storyline? lol wow. mark

Wait, so you think that any of ECW's loud angry malcontents could have accomplished what Douglas did?

...wait. You're right about that. :y:

[Loose Cannon]

I honestly think he was the right guy for the top spot of that promotion. Yes, there was a couple others you could of easily put in there that could of given the same preformance, but he did a great job. But again, great job in front of a small fanbase.

And I'm not knocking anyone's personal preferance. But I just like breaking everything down and looking through the whole career to make a decision with this

[Skippord]

is Rick Martel still alive?

he seems like someone who should be dead by now

[Supreme Olajuwon]

http://www.freewebs.com/ess316/RICK%20MARTEL%202.JPG

[Supreme Olajuwon]

I KNOW RIGHT?

[IRodC]

Going with the franchise because he is way better...AND THATS A FACT........................JACKASS

[Anybody Thrilla]

Do you think Shane Douglas could have ever pulled off a Blindfold Match? I THINK NOT.

[Joesgonnakillyou]

This always comes down to personal preference at the end of the day. There's no objective scale really, wrestling is an art rather than an science. I personally think Douglas was a real talent who could have made it anywhere if given the right opportunities/gimmicks (dean douglas?!).

I really don't think having a more successful career should be a factor either. I'd never vote for Great Khali over Brian Kendrick because Great Khali was a world champ and employed by WWE for longer. I prefer the in ring work and promo's of Kendrick. He'd get my vote.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

So if wrestling was an art there would be an objective scale?

[Joesgonnakillyou]

So if wrestling was an art there would be an objective scale?

I look stupid now, but you're gonna look worse after I edit my post...:shifty:

[Loose Cannon]

like I said, I can't argue an opinion, but we look at this differently. I look at a lot of different aspects of said wrestlers career and how much of an impact they had in multiple areas. Yes, in ring work and promos are factored in. But I'm not just going to sit here and say I enjoyed Shane Douglas more then Martel so Douglas is better. or vice versa.

I guess a lot of my thinking stems from all this historical shit I have crammed in my brain, it stems from listening to guys like Metlzer, Alvarez, Apter, Keller etcc... and it stems from listening to the stories and views of wrestlers/managers themselves. Like I am currently reading a "Greatest Tag Team" book by Steve Johnson and Greg Oliver right now and they rank around 200 tag teams. And they'll break down thier reasoning like I do with covering a broad scope of things over time with each team

anyway that is my mentality with this. call me different for not just posting a three word reply, but I'm sticking to it

[Emperor Smeat]

Shane Douglas mostly for his tossing the NWA title in the trash ending up becoming a much bigger moment in terms of wrestling history and for his promos during ECW. Looking back at that moment probably is one of the precursors to the Attitude Era since ECW's style influences WWF and WCW years later.

Don't remember much about Rick Martel since during the early 1990s I was more of a Hogan and Bushwackers fan and by the mid-1990s a Bret Hart/HBK fan before the Attitude Era. Only thing I remember the most was disliking the whole "model" gimmick but more from a preference than him being a bad wrestler.

[Swiss Ultimate]

Taz VS. Douglas

[Anybody Thrilla]

You have got to base this on who had the longest stint in the Royal Rumble match.

[Supreme Olajuwon]

Fun fact: in the 91 Rumble when Martel went 52:17, Douglas went a very respectable 26:23

[Skippord]

that fact wasn't very fun at all

[Emperor Smeat]

Even crazier fact is if Wikipedia is correct, Martel lasted longer than the entire 2010 Rumble match (49 minutes)