Yea pretty much.

I don't think Cesaro is a main event caliber guy either. That's definitely not the problem with CyNick. lol

Bret proposed losing to anybody, including Shawn, once that two day period in Canada was over with. Bret handing the belt over was a suggestion that Vince agreed to, not an order, Vince had the same right to veto that Bret did, they could have worked out a better plan if he wanted to. Bret suggested it because his leaving got out in newspapers, hotlines and the internet anyway, and Vince agreed that since people knew anyway, it didn't matter if Bischoff announced it. I don't see how any of this is Vince backed into a corner.

This is an absolutely absurd comparison. It's not even remotely the same thing. Bret signed a huge deal because his value to his new employer was largely based on his strength in the Canadian market, which WCW had historically never done well in. Nash's value at Mania 12 is a wrestler on a wrestling show. Bret's value in Canada was his entire selling point from a negotiating perspective, and since he added reasonable creative control to specifically avoid being devalued on the way out, Bret saw dropping the belt in Canada to the guy who picked his nose with and fucked the Canadian flag as potentially damaging to his value. Anybody that argues against it using the "well what if I don't job in America" is either a complete idiot, or so badly want to be anti-Bret that they are flagrantly ignoring the obvious. Bret put that creative control clause in so he couldn't be downgraded. They put him in a position to be potentially downgraded. He suggested losing elsewhere where it wouldn't be so damaging.

And of all the fucking people to make a comparison to, Nash, a guy who refused to job tons of times for no rhyme or reason other than he didn't want to.

And when he did job it was for his own benefit.

you two had better watch your Nash based words http://www.tpwwforums.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

<font color=goldenrod>Kevin Nash is the greatest man who ever lived. He's nice enough to allow others to win the Nobel Peace Prize.</font>

Out of respect for Big Kev I refrained from bashing him and contributed to the Nashvember thread but,Nashvember is over.

nashvember goes on eternally in our hearts.

Is Cesaro's sexual orientation keeping him from Main Event status?

To play devils advocate, people on here do seem to take their favourites and when they don't get pushed to the moon, they chalk it up to creative bring inept. You rarely hear about the fact that Cesaro has holes in his game.

I'm gonna do it again,whatever"holes" Cesaro has Roman has a lot more. You said Roman wrestles like a main eventer I just took that to mean "as basic as possible (and he doesn't even do that all that well) Cesaro at least has the wrestling part down and unlike Roman he has gotten over just on that.

Most are aware of his holes. Its not that he isn't pushed to the moon's, it's the inconsistancy. He can put guys over no problem, but it has to be done right.

Yeah losing to Taker and Shawn really helped his value on his way to WCW.

Oh wait, it's a work and everyone knows it. He still drew fine because he's talented.

When the chips were down, Nash was a pro.

But I know, the dirt sheets say he killed WCW, so we gotta all hate him.

If people were aware of his holes, they would understand how he is booked.

Didn't hurt, his contract was already signed and he was at the top of the card when he arrived.

We just had a whole month dedicated to the man, but yet we all hate him.

When you hear main event talent talk about putting together a match, they say you only need a few moves that people can identify, and you need a sequence of those moves that can be done with fire during a comeback.

Up until the last couple months, I don't think Cesaro had the right mix of moves to create a proper sequence to finish a match. He also was weak in terms of selling and playing babyface in peril. I think he's gotten better at it, and that's why you saw him getting more focus. But he got hurt so we're back to square one.

So for me the booking made sense, because you want to showcase his power in the ring to help him stand out. But at the same time if you push him hard before he's ready he'll fail

Difference to me with Roman is he has the in ring part of his game more polished. He could still add a move or two, but generally I feel like he's there. His issue is the long promo that top babyfaces traditionally are expected to do. He needs to get comfortable with that aspect or he will ultimately fall as a top face. Cesaro is even further behind Roman in terms of just flat out talking, nevermind cutting a 15 minute promo. Which is ANOTHER strike against Cesaro.

Cesaro reminds me a lot of Davey Boy Smith.

IKR?

Bret was going to be on top as well. What's the difference?

I understand his one flaw is his mic work, and a simple manager/valet would do the trick for him. Reigns on the other hand has alot more flaws other than mic work (which in my opinion is worse than Cesaro's). He has a cookie cutter moveset and two finishers that have the same set up. I understand both of thems "holes" and dont understand why either of them are in the spot they are in.

Roman could be something if they would let him show some personality. His best promo in WWE was when superstars were impersonating Macho Man. He is very green in the ring and should be climbing through the mid card right now, maybe even holding the IC or US title or even both but i dont feel he is a main even talent at the moment.

Cesaro has all the tools in the ring and has got over simply from his in ring work. He has been in WWE for some time and has a solid fan following. His time with Heyman could have been great had it not been for all the focus being on Brock. His work with the Real Americans was great as well but they stoped any momentum the dude had. He would have been a better choice for the MITB and would be great in a suited heel role.

Oh and you never answered my R-truth question

as for Cesaro being less polished I'm gonna have to disagree its easy to be polished when there is nothing complicated about your in-ring game as for main-eventers walking through their matches sure they keep it simple but they have more in them Romans moveset isn't kept simple IT IS simple.

Also Dean should totally be in Roman's place if Ambrose was doing this storyline they are pushing with Reigns it would look so much better.

I'm not talking about Bret.

You're right Roman Reigns is a much better wrestler than Cesaro.

No he's not.

Roman Reigns is getting his push because he looks good, nothing more, nothing less. We can all tall about strength and weaknesses, but they see a good looking guy who can promote the company in the media and be the face that people think of when they think of WWE. It's nothing to do with his strength or weaknesses as a wrestler or anything else.

I don't care if he is on top or whoever else is on top, I just want interesting stories and feuds.

Also Sheamus is in a different league to Reigns in the ring. That is not Sheamus problem at all, he can go.

(Sarcasm noted) A podcast I listened to recently brought up the fact that Sheamus actually is a good wrestler.

Yep Vince can prattle on about dedication to what they do and blah blah but at the end of it all Vince doesn't give a shit about being awesome in the ring and on the mic and this is all you've wanted to do(Ambrose) he wants that former football guy/pro bodybuilder.

Exactly this. Reigns looks like a guy who can make the company look good to a mainstream audience through talk show appearances and stuff as it's poster child. Unfortunately, that also requires a charisma, presence and likability to the common folk that he just doesn't have. That's why Cena was the perfect choice. He's got all the attributes that matter for a face of the company. It's just unfortunate that he's been booked very blandly pretty much his entire run so when he goes out and looks good in a public appearance to get eyes on the product, there's nothing there to keep eyes on it.

Just because he has holes doesn't mean he needs to be booked as an afterthought.

Don't get me wrong, the guy takes his part in featured bouts, but he's "Just another guy" and that is the main issue.

Just because guys aren't world champions or main event guys doesn't mean they need to be essentially put in a spot where they can just be interchangeable with literally anyone else on the roster.

Cesaro needs to get a clean win over a legit talent (Not a world title win, but a "rub" ) and from there, it doesn't mean he goes and wins a championship, it just means he's a guy that it actually means something to feud with, and he can be featured in intense non world title programs, instead of wrestler a facing wrestler b.

You have an incredibly narrow viewpoint on this stuff, or at the very least, assume we all do, which makes you rather insufferable.

Cesaro I would say is put in featured bouts, but never actually FEATURED in a bout.

Had they not bungled his post-Mania push, Ceasro could easily have been a cornerstone of the mid-card or viable main event star by now. Pairing him with Heyman as a manager was the best to cover his weakness with promos while having the signature moment from the Battle Royale should have been the start of something bigger.

Instead the WWE squandered both for no real reason. Even when it looked like Ceasro was on track again to be a potential big star, the WWE squashed that too since they didn't have an active hand in it.

Reigns could end up as an absolute failure as a top star but WWE wouldn't care since they could just treat him as another Orton or Batista. Both failed as possible mega stars but kept getting big chances due to their hand picked status. Same for Sheamus and Del Rio being a lot lower than what the WWE wished they'd be as stars.

Totally meant Cesaro.... dunno why i typed Sheamus

Here is the thing that you are glossing over. With Cesaro the holes are such that they can be easily filled in provided you wish to make the effort to do so, much like they are doing with Reigns right now.

Cesaro would have been a better fit for the Authority rather than Sheamus just based on looks alone. Throw in his ring ability and he can work with pretty much anyone and make them look like a credible threat in the ring. The only reason Sheamus fits is storyline wise he is easier to manipulate, that is it. Sheanus should be the awkward face chasing Cesaro but just coming up short.

Cynick, another huge problem Roman has is Vince I know you think the guy walks on water but he's just gotten old and ridiculous.
He seems to think that we are all stupid and he doesn't realize that the audience does not consist of a bunch of easily lead rubes like back in the day.(And what Simple Plan said earlier was accurate some people don't give kids enough credit they are smarter than you like to think)
Look at Roman in the rumble and how badly Vince's attempts to manipulate the crowd in to cheering using the Rock failed.(I was so proud of the crowd for that)
He likes to claim he listens to the fans but the truth is his mindset is "You don't like what think you like, I tell you what you like" And in this day and age that just won't fly. Trying to force a relationship with Reigns that fans clearly don't want is doomed to fail.

I feel bad for Roman Reigns, because he's certainly not a slouch, he works hard, seems like a genuinely nice guy, but he's been put in a situation where it's more-or-less gonna be impossible to sincerely win over anyone over the age of 12. Pretty much all his angles and storylines since the SHIELD split have been so boring and predictable. It's horrible to watch.

Someone said on here recently, and this isn't an exact quote but it seems pretty realistic, something along the lines of "Vince would rather have 2/3 of an arena full with his guy, than a full arena of guys he didn't pick."

Isn't he bangin' Sara Del Ray on the regular?

There is literally a thread called nashvember in here. You dong nut. Most people here love nash. What unmerciful shit are you talking?