FUCCCCCKKK just passed 10k, oh well my tribute post is on the way. Glad is was a LOST post (I guess).

I was about to bring up the fact that Smokey can't kill Jacob pointing to Smokey and Jacob's brother being one and the same...but what about the fact that we saw his body!?

I guess the monster could "strip" someone of their character, but it seems to me that they would have had to be alive to do this - unlike Locke/Christian.

I think the problem a lot of us are having is that we didn't expect to be theorizing on this stuff with so little time to go. They have a lot to answer in the time remaining - I fear a lot will go unanswered.

For instance, how do they cover the stuff with "Jacob's Cabin"? Who was living there? Who said "Help me!" when Locke was there? Who was sat in the rocking chair?

I figured stuff like that would be covered in "Across The Sea" - I thought as Jacob/His brother/Smokey had been there so long we would see a lot of the history explained. Now we have to hope they cover this in the time remaining.

I dont think there is any way they are getting to Jacob's cabin. Its a shame cause its been visited in seasons 3, 4, and 5.

I think Ilana saying "someone else was using it" is all we are going to get with hit. We will have to theorize what happened with it. I think it was the MiB, Im just not sure how it relates to him moving about the Island.

Part of what I was hoping for last night was to see the Jacob/MiB struggle over the course of thousands of years

Yeah totally agree. Its has just got to that point now, and it has only really become apparent after that episode.

Yeah see things like this make me lean more to the idea that they really didn't think about what they were doing at the time and how it would impact later on what they eventually decided would be the story.

Here is my breakdown of trying to answer that...

Ben never actually met Jacob, and as we know, his base/home was the chamber underneath the statue. However, Ilana knew to go to the cabin to look for Jacob. But upon finding it saw that the circle of ash had been broken, and that someone else had been using it....so through that we could assume that someone, at some point trapped the smoke monster inside the cabin....but then again, the smoke monster has been rampant throughout the Island since episode friggin 1!! - so none of that really makes sense at all :(

Ben was surprised when things in the cabin started going crazy - and we did hear the voice - so something was present there even if it was Ben trying to trick Locke. The guy in the chair was played by one of the crew members on the LOST production team, can't remember where I read that, but it was an interview and they showed the guy on set - either way, it was a totally different guy to that of the guy who plays Jacob and Christian. It just doesn't make sense. Even in the context of LOST, its too much of a web of inconsistencies to be.

But yeah, seriously, there is too much to explain, and the stuff they have not explained it very significant to the story.

I dunno, it could all work I guess.

Well yeah, you've stated what we know and what's assumed to explain it...it'd be nice to know for sure what the deal was/is.

I guess these could be seen as big McGuffins in the bigger picture. The hatch was the most important thing to us in S1, finding out who The Others were was the biggest mystery of S2, etc. but those things seem so inconsiquential to the story now.

SMokey has said that jacob took his body and made him the way he is...so that explaisn why he has a dead body, he is now a spiritual being.

The ash maybe didnt keep things in the cabin but rather out....then somehow the ashes were broken, and smokey moved into the cabin to pretend to be jacob to Ben and falsely lead the others.

Just thought, was the knife that MiB had/used to kill his mother the same knife that Dogan gave to Sayid to kill Smocke?

It was! Its a certain kind of Roman soldier weapon they all had. I actually have the exact replica in my room I got in Greece years ago lol.

We actually have not had any evidence where we saw or it was suggested that The Others were ever deceived by the MIB. Jacob only spoke to Richard, probably in his statue chamber.

That's the thing, only Locke and a small other handful of people were under the impression it was Jacob in the cabin. And those people were not any of The Others, just the losties.

We know Richard knew where Jacob was. Ben clearly didnt but pretended he did, and the Others I dont think had any idea where Jacob lived.

So really you have Locke who thought Jacob lived there, Hurley who knew someone was there but not really who, and Ilana's Group who went there for Jacob but quickly figured out it wasnt him.

On top of all of it, you have Horace who built the cabin.

If you watch the sneak peak for next week...semi spoiler warning I suppose....

Hurley gives the bag of ashes to young Jacob in the jungle, so maybe we will find out a little more about the ash

Been doin gsome reading, there is a school of thoughtthat Mother = Monster.

I have to admit, when she first appeared to find Claudia by the stream the scene was all to similar to when the smoke appeared behind Eko as he was drinking from a stream. Then there was the way that she told Claudia that she would find any other people that had arrived at the island. And of course the way that the village was destroyed, people killed and - most oddly - the well filled in.

When she warns Jacob that going into the Glowing Cave of Death (and life, and rebirth) is a fate "worse than death" that she is speaking from experience?

To counterpoint this, we see the light in the cave go out when MiB is sent down there by Jacob, presumably this would have happened if Mother had gone down there. Does the light come back? We've seen it when Locke/Ben turned the Donkey Wheel so perhaps!?

Horace did built the cabin, but it was most likely the MIB who posed as him in the dream/vision Locke had where he was cutting the tree down. Horace/MIB needed Locke to find the cabin so he could then pose as Christian and tell him to move the island. And although Ben did it, it was Locke who he meant, which he told him in the well in season 5.

Maybe it was and is Jacob's plan to have the good guys believe it was his cabin so it lead to to and through the course of events that occurred. I have always kinda believed Jacob's plan is to make it seem as though the MIB is one step ahead (it was like he let Ben kill him in a way) when really he has an ace or two up his sleeve, like Desmond and the alternate universe, which I doubt MIB is aware of or what it could have happen.

Also my reply to spoiler...

Young Jacob is not Jacob though, pretty sure its the Island or some kind of higher being/force. Jacob is dead.

Ben brought Locke to the cabin stating thats where Jacob lived....so ben might have actually thought of Jacob as being there. Thats why when Locke heard "him" ben was upset at the idea of losign power, and shot Locke

holy shit, I leave for a couple hours and there's like 20 new posts

I love this show. Thought the history of Jacob and not Jacob was well done. I like that Lost has its own mythology now, and isn't something taken literally from some other source. Really can't believe their is only two episodes left. :(

Yeah, we know that Ben never got an audience with Jacob and judging by this reaction when whoever it is in the cabin goes apeshit, he's never spoken to anyone there.

here's my problem with the guys saying Smoke Monster and MIB are is basicaly the same thing. I mean, yea, there is a lot of evidence that points to that, but....

How long has this Smoke Monster existed on the island? It seems like it was there as long as the island's been there. And then we have to ask how long the island has been there? Becuase the Smoke Monster didn't just appear with MIB. It was there well before MIB was even born.

At least that's my take on it. They really need to show DAY 1 this island existed. lol

Why do you assume smokey existed at any point prior to MIB going into the light? there is nothing to support that.

It's just guesswork again. It could be that the Monster wa being held by the light and was released when MiB went into the cave. It could be that the Monster is somehow a manifestation of what was in MiB's heart. Etc, etc, etc.

This is why it's frustrating. We shouldn't be speculating to this degree at this point.

Most people here hated last nights episode, right? (I can't be bothered to read through another lost thread today)

No, 'most people' did not hate last night's episode. I take it that's your way of telling us you did though?

the bottle that Jacob's mother poured from to make Jacob the protector, was that smashed by MiB later (timeline) in an earlier episode? If so, how will they make the final candidate the new protector?

I'm not so sure the drink had anythng to do with handing over the reigns, seemed needlessly ceremonial to me. I think you just have to accept the role of your own accord.

Again, I have said this a lot, but this battle, this resolution is 'the end', not just in the sense of the show, but 'It only ends once, anything that happens before that is just progress' - sure its very likely there will be a new Jacob and maybe a new antagonist to that, but ever since he said that on the beach, I dunno it's like this is the deciding battle.

Whatever the smoke is, 'evil', this is the first time the evil has managed to find a loophole and is in a position to leave actually leave. Widmore, Jacob and Hurley have all said that if MIB/smokey/evil leaves the island, then everything is over, everyone is dead, existence ends etc and that is the case. This is the final battle. So even if there is to be a new Jacob out of the candidates, that doesn't mean they will carry on guarding the Island necessarily, it could mean that that chosen one is the only one who in the end can kill/destroy/trap the evil for good.

I did, but that's not my way of telling you so. The two other forums I post on have the general consensus that last night's episode was trite and awful. It seems out of place in what has been a fantastic run of shows.

Anyhow, this'll all be over in a week and a half!!

Just hope that it's not a disappointing finish.

Amen.

I'll be honest, I'm worried.

Rewatched the episode tonight. Better when I didn't have as high expectations.

Something was amiss though with jacob becoming the protector. The mother seemed up to something. I'm not sure she didn't want jacob to throw his brother down that hole.

Also, regarding the outrigger chase and who is on the boat....

If you want to know if or when its going to pop up...



We aren't going to see it----confirmed by carlton and damon

well there's always been good vs evil since the begininning of time. And I think this has to hold true with the island. I could totally be reaching here, but I think Smokey got trapped at somepoint and then was released by MIB again.

I don't really see them going back to the past anymore though, so I dunno

Yeah my thoughts were more along Loose Cannons. MIB released him. Hence why MIB physical body is separate from Smokey.

Im not trying to continue a counter argument deal her

But good vs evil isnt part of the show,

they are really playing up Light vs dark

Same thing....? Sort of, but without the moral ties

So a guy like ben can be light.....but its fucking ben

and more to the point, good vs evil for all out mankind really doesnt pop up in lost, seems like all humans or "peopl" are evil....

I would have to agree with you XL. Im not sure how she managed to drag MiB back up the well, kill everyone, and fill in the well by herself. Especially when she told Jacob she was "tired"

couple lost links...

LOST game on Jimmy Kimmel (pretty funny) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8JBYlNTf-Q


Interview with D+C on Across the Sea (some people may have a problem with what they say)

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-al...across-the-sea

good vs evil was a poor choice for words. let's go light vs dark. but my main point is still that light vs dark was probably there since the beg of the island. like I said, I am probably reaching, but I doubt they will ever go way back anyway

I don't think we should focus on the definitions of whether we say good vs evil, dark vs light, there is already too much to figure out.

The fact is, both are supported.

Dark vs Light with the whole backgammon thing from like the first episodes with Locke talking to Walt, when Locke said he saw a bright light when he saw the monster and when Eko said he saw dark. Tons more...

And then with the whole good and evil thing....been said LOADS through the show about people being 'good' and worthy etc....and more recently with Dogen speaking of Locke being evil incarnate and how there is evil parts to the good. Not to mention Jacob referring the Island to being the cork of the wine bottle that keeps evil at bay.

Both choice of words are valid for different reasons, and because of that just makes it all the more complicated which is what its all about really.

great point on the mother. didn't even think of that. she made Jacob drink that stuff though, so if she was a Monster, you would think that stuff was bad

OMG come on are we really gonna go there? at this point?

YES LOL

fuck, what if all this time it's actually been Jacob that's really the "bad" guy here and Smokey is the one that's actually good.

Ugh, lol, seriously? you think they would do a 180 like this this far into the game and after everything that have flat out told us, hinted at, alluded to and suggested? at this point?

I hope to god they don't do ANYTHING like that. Come too far, remembered and followed too much and it just wouldn't be a good thing at all.

ah christ, didn't even realize this theory is being discussed. I can honestly see this happening with this show. dunno wtf this guy is talking about though here with kittens.


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...4154853AA2roYd

Ugh, I'm staying out of this one. I'll be VERY VERY surprised and disappointed if this whole thing does a 180 like that at the end. Too much has happened in EVERY sense to have such a 'twist' occur and be of a good quality/idea/outcome for the story.

The Protector of the Island seems analogous to the person pushing the button. It seems as whenever the "other" people get too close to reaching the powers of the Island, they are wiped out. Much like pressing the button resets the EM in the Hatch.

We know the following people have been wiped out on the Island:
MiB's original people
DHARMA Initiative
People who built the temples/statues

It seems this mass genocide (as explained in the interview I posted above) repeats itself on the Island as these people get closer and, presumably, greedier to find that power.

Swear Faraday said that the detonation of the bomb would render the pocket of energy and all other sources of that energy inert. So unless that one in the cave is something special than the other ones, it's all gone.

yea but faraday also didnt think that they would go on still living on the island so...

That depends on what the result of the Hydrogen Bomb was. If you think the bomb was always the "Incident" at the Swan Site, then you know Faraday was obviously wrong.

If you think the bomb created the alternate timeline, then he was right.

By the way, I know alot of us are unhappy with some of the explanations of these mysteries, however I am still going to miss theorizing about everything with people.

By the looks of things there will be plenty to still talk about, let alone the finale itself :)

and it's been the Mother and Jacob that wiped out MIB people and DHARMA. dunno about the statue people.

Yeah see this is another thing I can't figure out. What was is the first time round then?

Because whatever it was, it still enabled the hatch to be built with the computer/button etc,

One other thing I really wanted answering, was why Jack, Sayid, Kate and Hurley were sent back to 1977 when they returned to the Island, yet Sun, Ben, Frank etc stayed in the present (2007). Really wish they had a reason behind that other than it being conveniant.

My theory was that it was Jacob's doing and they were sent there to be protected from MiB, while Sun stayed in 2007 to keep separate. Kind of like how the President and VP dont wouldnt fly on the same plane. Just in case anything happens, someone survives.

After Ben stabs Jacob, Jacob tells MiB "they're coming"

I think that sums up the writers take on things pretty well. We won't get his name, we won't get an answer to who was shooting at the outrigger during the time shift, etc.

Reading that interview they seem very resentful of their audience. Especially Damon Lindeloff (sp).

I don't know if I fully like or agree with them on that.

Sure it's great to have some mystery and some unknown element to the whole saga. But sometimes I get the feeling that they did just fuck around as they went on without thinking it through just so at the time they could give us something new and different, and something we will never see again. And at the time, were lead to believe all things that happen, especially the weird and unexplained had/has a purpose. Now it just seems as though it was for nothing. I mean why include things like that and take up valuable story and screen time, when it has no real effect or significance. Shit like that is what you do with written stories and books, not a show that has a limited amount of time to tell a story. I dunno, maybe its just me being bitter about it. But still.

I think it was the island that did this.

It was the MIB's plan and loophole to have Locke leave the island, and come back dead with those who had left. But that outcome was also in part due to the things Jacob did and part of his plan also. So I think the island, as an entity gave them both a kind of advantage and chance for each team (Jacob Vs MIB) to win. Jack and co sent back to drop the bomb and create the alt timeline, and MIB/Ben to kill Jacob and continue with their path.

Keep in mind that for a while, they didn't know WHEN the show was going to end. Then, when they got word of how many seasons it would have, they 'finished' it, so to speak.

I get this vague feeling that the final two on the island will be Jack (Jacob) and Claire (MIB)...

Claire, really?

I guess, she could be driven crazy by not getting Aaron back. But I thought they were really playing up this whole Jack vs. Sawyer thing really well. It has built up nicely to leave Sawyer as new MIB.

Agreed. Plus its Claire. If they do indeed end the show with two new replacements, Sawyer will have so much more of an impact than Claire.

Yeah but only with his current desire to leave because of Juliet etc.

His character has rough edges in morality sure, but they all do. Overall Sawyer is a good guy and is like the new Jack, he does believe, he just doesn't know it, I don't think he represents the new host for MIB, it would also mean he has to die.

If John Locke is not brought back when the realities merge on Island, and they do end up keeping the Island's function of people coming going, I think it will be Locke/MIB and Jack who serve as the protectors/representatives of light/dark.

That was fucking shit, that episode should have explained loads of stuff. Garbage.

While I don't and won't say I hate is, it was prob the worst LOST episode in my opinion. Even the Nikki and Paulo episode was better.

The characters were terrible.

But the episode was pretty good.

- How they were actually the ones who found the Peal station and didn't tell anyone will be the ultimate reason for them being twats but it was a decent 'shock'.

- Sawyer was funny in the episode.

- Was a good story of how they trusted and loved each other but fucked it up over something like diamonds.

- Getting buried as she opened her eyes was cool.

People are never ever going to get the answers they want. How far does it have to go to satisfy you? Where did the light come from? What is the exact nature of it? How did Mother make them ageless? Why is the island there in the first place? These are all far too deep questions, in the sense that it takes way too much time to explain them.

I think it was a good episode in terms of better expanding on the characters of Jacob and MIB, and that's the important part. The characters are what make us love the show, not the mysteries, because if we don't care about the characters, why would we engage with them trying to solve the mysteries?

With all the hype surrounding this ep, you had to know it was gonna disappoint. People spend so much time theorizing over the show that they get hurt when it turns out none of their theories are true, or that the reality is much simpler. Fuck just enjoy the ride, don't get your panties in a knot because the end of the show isn't living up to the exact idea of what you thought it'd be.

Whatever man, I'll be sticking to my theory that the whole show revolves around Vincent til the final second!

Yeah people care a about the characters, of course. But we have ALL their stories pretty much answered, it's done.

The Island is a character, that was the main selling point that got the show made, and with that, a large portion of the interest and popularity of the show. They go hand in hand. The characters are interesting because of who they are, but they are also special and on a special place that has its own history. Jacob chose those people because they are special and were meant to be part of the Island.

If the answers to what the island is is answered, then I believe the others answers to other hard questions will be answered, and even if they are not, they will at least make sense and still leave a cool bit of mystery with regard to the context of the show.

We have been promised answer since the show started, and yeah, we have been given some, but not of massive importance.

I still have faith in the writers and the show, and I understand what you are saying. But you have to understand its not that the ending isn't living up to what we expect, its just that its not giving anything to satisfy the interest and mystery towards ANY answer, at all, which is the main problem.

That is all correct but all of that raises more questions and contradictions about stuff we have been shown and found out since the start.

Jacob is a murderer, and therefore 'tainted'.

MIB could see dead people, but we still dont know if its certain people who are 'blessed' or the will of The Island who allows certain people to be subjected to the dead.

Just kinda thought of something..

What if their fake mother had to make there really be a reason to defend the island.. like maybe she wasn't sure she'd sold Jacob on it, but she was running out of time, so she had to give him a purpose.. so she knew MIB would kill her, and she knew what Jacob would do to him. Kinda twisted in a manipulative sense, you could say. She is obviously not really 'good', what with killing their mother.

Of course, over time, maybe Jacob really came around to it and understood that there was something more to the island. But maybe that first bit is just what it took?

Thing is, Jacob didn't kill his brother thinking about it, didn't she say she made it to be that way.

He looked like he died from that blow to the head, but having him go into the cave as soon after, he might not of actually been dead. Either way, him going into the cave was something she did say Jacob had to not let happen, he was meant to protect it and not go in there.

Now that is has been said, I think its going to be Jack and claire left on the island and sawyer leads everyone else off.

We all think Jack is going to be the new jacob, but who else wants off the island more than claire? It makes sense that she will be the new mib trying to escape while jack keeps here there.

Why do people think Claire is going to be the new MIB? and how?

im thinking it will mirror the original jacob/mib in the end. Jack-wanting to stay becaus he needs to protect the island, claire being "infected" and wanting desperately wanting to get off the island to see aaron

But we don't know protecting the Island is what Jack is supposed to do. He is there to do something important yes, but it could be anything.

The realities are going to merge, or the alt reality is going to affect the Island reality in some way or vice versa. Even if Claire is made the new MIB and the rest get off - where does that leave the alt reality? I think either it's there to bring someone back to the Island, or its there to take them off and back to the lives they were supposed to of had. If its the latter case, Claire will be and have Aarron anyway.

I still can't shake the feeling that this is 'the end', as in whatever happens, I don't think the Island will need protecting anymore or even have a conflict of dark vs light. It only ends once, and the time for that is the finale.

Gonna agree with Kano on this one in that the whole "it only ends once" thing makes it seem as though this will be the end of all the island protection stuff.

I can see something happening where after it's all over Jack still wants to stay and protect the island or whatever, but then Kate convinces him to just come back home to the real world because the island doesn't need protecting anymore or something like that.

yep, down to 3, unless Desmond is a secret back up plan :D

How can anyone be related to Jacob or MIB when they never left the Island? Well Jacob did, but as far as we know, didn't fuck anyone lol

I don't think it will happen too much now, but I remember I once though Jack eventually would leave with his father alive. Cus back then I thought since his body wasn't found he was alive (resurrected by Jacob) and Jack said he was going to Sydney to bring back his father.

Yeah that is a good probability.

Whatever the Island is, its not actually an Island, like it is, but it's physical and actual representation is obviously the 'front', the first layer or whatever it is, and wherever it really came from, I assume it has the ability to still travel through space and time. God knows where is has been, or where it could go. We could see it move again to somewhere crazy like space or another dimension to that of Earth.

Yeah as we all discussed previously on LOST, the show has, will and does allude to various religious, mythological etc believes and stuff, but will prob not ever directly say it is definitely this or that. It did look garden of Edenish to be fair.

Yeah, the whole theme was very Edenish. Light could essentially be the tree of life, saying it was the 'source' and what not. It represented temptation, pretty much.

Probably just a really big flood light though. Or whatever was in the briefcase Jules was carrying around in Pulp Fiction.

Not agreeing it will be Jack and Claire...


But they are siblings like the current regime.

kate killed her mom right?

Pretty sure it was the 1,000,000 tons of water that destroyed the statue, not the wooden ship.

And as we've seen in the Lost universe, the weather can change very, very, very quickly

They still made the point that the ship hit it and it was destroyed, and even so...the force and power of 1,000,000 tons of water pushing a wooden ship into thick stone...the ship ending up about as wrecked as it would've been if it was just in the ocean?... would be like throwing a beer bottle at a wall. But still I guess I'm nip picking, yet it is one of the answers I wasn't so impressed with.

correct... Her friend got shot by the police when Kate was trying to escape the hospital and he was in the car with her.

Its a sneak peak from next weeks......


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HA HA maybe Desmond is indeed a candidate!!!

Also, I got a new sneaky suspicion that we may have a 3 way split in the finale - What's going on on the Island, the alt reality and the more flashes back to when MIB turned into smokey to when the black rock arrived when they were on the beach.

HAHAHA

Jacob is acting rather heelish there. :shifty:

Shit you just made me realise I posted the wrong sneak peak.

Jack makes a reference in the following other sneak peak about it could be 'one of his rules' as to why MIB didn't execute Desmond himself...

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Could it be perhaps that Desmond is a candidate after-all?


Ugh, and with the other clip, young Jacob and Hurely - I don't think I can even fathom how to theorise that. Jacob is dead, he has already been seen on Island, by Hurley and now we see him as a youngster, why? and why did MIB see Jacob as a youngster with blood on his arms? it just doesn't make sense. Why is Hurley seeing him as a youngster now? - Unless its MIB and he has a new plan? OR its The Island?

I assume the ash can be used to maybe bring him back to life, or trap MIB in some form or fashion at some pivitol point maybe.

I can't make out what Sawyer and Jack both say to each other in thier last lines in that clip.