It's not quite that retarded.

But I'm gonna throw this out now: Wrestlemania will never take off. Mark my words.

(Wonder if Krispy is retarded enough to feel the need to correct that one< TOO)

Seriously though, I'm more hyped about this Mania than I ever have been.

WWE has the best chance it's ever gonna get to push some of the "new"/"younger" talent.

Having said that, if I don't get wins for Miz & Rhodes and to a lesser extent Del Rio/Barrett/etc my opinion could change.

So it's the worst match in the history of those four Manias?

Close try 10. (WM X-7)

I'm not more hyped than I've ever been, but it doesn't look bad.

Last year had me hyped because even if everything else sucked, there was HBK/Taker. It's rare to have a match that excites me that much, but at the same time, this year lacks that same sort of "big" match.

So far the only thing that's got that "big" feel is a retired wrestling-cum-movie star returning, and he's not even wrestling. That's not to say this won't be a good Mania, or that there won't be great matches, mind. I'm seriously not out to tear down this year's event.

Well, I wasn't sure, just threw a number out there :-\

Heh. Rock's return (and those of Austin or Trish or anyone else really) doesn't excite me all that much. Bringing him in is looking backwards, I want this Mania to look to the present/future.

Ideally it's time for "Cena's generation" to "pass the torch" to the next set of guys. So I'm looking for (but by no means expecting) wins for Miz, Rhodes, Punk, ADR, etc.

Plus, I think HHH v Taker has the potential to rival HBK v Taker in terms of build. For all the talking up of these "new/young" guys, I do like this match up.

Thing that can save Mania

Goldberg vs Gillberg.

The Brooklyn Brawler vs Gillberg.

No sweat, just backin ya up.

lol: http://www.wrestlingforum.com/genera...stlemania.html

A same night MITB cash-in by Christian on Del Rio would make this Mania for me. It'd be like WrestleMania X when Bret won the WWF Title and Owen stared at him like "I beat you earlier you fucker!"

Christian wins MITB, Edge gets screwed out of the World Title by Del Rio, Christian cashes in and we have a kick-start to an Edge VS Christian program.

Those are the only ones I've seen live. I've seen all, I think...if not most. I used to have the 'Mania dvd set.

Anyway, yeah. Of all 'Mania matches I've seen, I think Lesnar/Goldberg is the worst. I've stated my reasons for feeling that way, and don't feel like giving them anymore.

I like the idea of Christian cashing in to make it a Triple Threat, mainly cos we've seen the "instant cash in" already with Kane (although not at Mania) but cashing in to "right a wrong" against his former partner (not brother) is just as good.

The next generation is so "meh." Can't really give a shit.

And there's a strong fan correlation there, too.

Now, I know how TPWW logic works, so let's just get it out of the way. It goes somethign like this.

"I like so and so, so they're successful. I found a bunch of like-minded people in a very limited aspect of the overall community to agree, so it's justified."

It's dumb. And the problem is, it doesn't play with the overall crowd.

If the idea here is to pass the torch, they're doing it wrong. And part of it is not really having a group who's going to carry that torch.

...Okay, okay, except with the aforementioned TPWW logic of "but I like him, so...."

And that's, in a nutshell, why we have a "save Wrestlemania" thread.

And honestly, "Cena's Generation" is in no way old enough to need to pass it. Don't be daft. And there's such a bizarre overlap. It'd be like talking abotu passing the Torch to Batista, a man who was older than many of the öld guard" of the day.

Guys like triple H and Undertaker should be passing the torch. Oh, look. Those two are facing each other. Well, shit. That really blew that idea.

Maybe "sharing the torch" would be more apt. Y'think we can get that phrase going KK?

Guys like Miz and Morrison and Rhodes won't ever be seen on the same level as a Cena or an Orton unless they start beating those guys. And doing it fairly legitimately (or as much as being a heel allows for legit wins).

With Takers streak, there's little point putting it on the line against the likes of Barrett or Sheamus. We all know the outcome of the match. And whilst it might be possible to "make a star" even in a losing effort against Taker, I honestly can't remember the last time that happened (if in fact it ever has).

And I'm not using this TPWW Logic© you speak of here. I don't really go in for the bandwagon jumping that it appears a lot of guys around here do. There are some guys in this "generation" that I see as "worthy" and I'd like them to be presented as such.

Where's the benefit in Mysterio beating Rhodes? Or Cena getting ANOTHER WrestleMania Moment?

...A HUGE payday.

Wrestlemania now needs to be saved because Sting didn't show?

Personally I think The Rock returning after 7 years is pretty damn good. Especially based on how people clammored for it over the past years. And they're making the best of it thus far.
But now it's here and it's not enough for some, I guess.

I think fans are way spoiled when it comes to Wrestlemania. Every year people expect more and more out of the cards, and it's because since WWE bought WCW, they've given it.
Look at Wrestlemania pre-17. It's a wrestling show. Yes, it's supposed to be the best of the year, but they should do their best with what they have on the roster, and provide hot storylines and matchups that serve the current direction.
But now people want multiple dream matches, and every star from the 90s.

The past year has been a huge youth movement. The matchups aren't dream matches because this early in a generation you just aren't going to have dream matchups.
If you ever want to see dream matchups and hugely anticipated feuds again, there is going to have to be a period where they are forged.

That's how it was at the beginning of the attitude era, and there are only so many years and matchups left in the tank from that generation.
It's time to let the new guys stand on their own. The Rock and HHH/Taker seems like more than enough veteran presence.

I also don't think Goldberg showing up is in any way going to "save" a show that The Rock is already on.
It would be a nice addition, but hardly make or break.

That's why fans are so stupid.

They had been clamoring for Bret Hart to return to the WWE for YEARS. Once he did last year, it was "He looks old", "He can't move", "He looks like Ozzy Osbourne", etc.

This year, after so much bitching and moaning for YEARS, The Rock is back in the WWE, and it's not enough for some. They (fans) went along with rumors about Sting going to WWE, something WWE NEVER publicized, and all of a sudden who cares if The Rock is back? Sting didn't go to WWE, so now all of a sudden the WWE is the bad guy, and WrestleMania is in trouble.

Pfft.

:nono:

I'm pretty sure that the fans who care about the undercard are the ones who will order/watch Mania regardless.

The average and casual fan really only cares about the main attractions, and that will involve the names The Rock, John Cena, HHH, Undertaker and possibly Shawn Michaels (ref).
That'll do. It's hardly in trouble.

Orton got a bit of a bump after his Mania match against Taker at WrestleMania 21, if only for looking like a bad ass after his chokeslam reversal into the RKO.

But I agree with you. There's no way to make the new generation into legitimate stars until they start getting legitimate wins. Even CM Punk hasn't really reached "that level" yet, despite being a former World Champion and PPV main eventer. I think the only legit wins he's gotten over main eventers were against Jeff Hardy, and that's not that much to brag about. They need to not be afraid of having their top guys like Cena, Orton, Taker and Triple H lose clean from time to time. There's nothing interesting about a face versus heel match if you don't feel like the heel has a chance of winning the thing. When Jeff got a couple clean wins over Triple H in the build-up to his WWE Title push it did wonders for him. Why can't they do the same for their bad guys, too?