That's why they canned it. They tested Emma out in the role and it sucked, apparently. I don't know why they ran the gimmick without testing it out first, but they did, and I can only assume it was a black mark against her name.

I am inclined to go with Dessy's inside scoop. Think Emma didnt shine Asuka the way she should have. They gave her another chance on Raw, she got all of her shit in again and got canned. My #FanTheory is that it was her last chance to show that she could offer value as a solid lower tier hand to give hot commodities some shine and she blew it.

Could be completely off base but I think that is how the stars line up.

Road Dogg: "You got nine minutes"

Emma: How am I going to make this match 9 minutes....

*Later*

Vince: "HHH, I thought this Asuka was supposed to be a big thing?"

*Much Later*

HHH: "Emma, your fired"

They tested it with pictures. On her debut of the gimmick Emma said she would not be doing it anymore.

Emmalina's gimmick was little more than "she's really hot" and not much else. That worked for Eva Marie because it provided a workaround for her genuine lack of wrestling ability. The gimmick boiled down to "terrible wrestler getting pushed because she's hot" and she was generating heat. She was the best heel in the company for a time because of that gimmick.

Emmalina couldn't have worked because we already saw her as Emma, know she can wrestle, and have seen her put on decent matches. The gimmick was doomed from that respect. It worked with Eva because we'd never seen her be a good in-ring performer previously.

She doesn't seem like the type that aspires to be a "solid low tier hand".

Understandable. But sewerfucking Asuka when theyre relying on you shining her up is pretty shitty. (hypothetically of course)

Could you not say the very same thing for Emma?

Also, can two people not get over in the same match? Asuka could have done more when she WAS given the shine, and Emma's back was essentially against the wall regardless. I know that may make her sound selfish in a sense, but how do you jostle someone around for 9 minutes without sustaining an advantage? She couldn't put Asuka away. That's the real shine.

I feel like the average viewer is not sitting there giving a fuck about either of the Asuka/Emma matches. That's left for nerds like us. And of the main Emma naysayers on this discussion, I might be the only one who watches everything regularly.

I don't think her popularity has waned because of Emma specifically. It's because of WWE doing it's usual ridiculous thing of...missing the fucking point.

Not Emma's fault. People have been far less fired for far more objectionable things. No fucking way it was those matches. She got hosed...unless there was something else...which I'm completely open to...but who's to say?

Emma is not a bad worker.

Asuka really didn't suffer from that match at all. The people that already know her love her, but they really could have given her a more special debut if they REALLY meant it.

Vince probably hate Asuka, the more I think about it.

I guess I just prefer the NJPW method where youhave workers who are definitely booked stronger, but everyone is booked strong enough where there is always an "any given sunday" approach with undercard wrestlers. As a result, the division as a whole is stronger.

Squashes should be for local enhancement talent, not someone like Emma. And having watched the match again, I still stand by my claim that Asuka looked stronger. She's never been about squashes in the first place. Everyone gets their shit in when they face her. What makes her dominant is that she always wins regardless, and HER shit looks a lot mor brutal. I thought Emma did a good job selling that. Every shot she took looked like it killed her.

I agree 100% with Fignuts.

In any professional sport, any team should literally have a chance to beat any team on any given Sunday, or whatever. Wrestling is ridiculous enough in theory. No need to make things so glaringly obvious. Especially on a PPV.

Emma isn't fucking Reno fucking Riggins, either.

I think she suffered.

But is it Emma's fault? I'm still thinking not. Just strange booking.

On Emma previously being fired:

Jinder Mahal
Drew McIntyre
Daniel Bryan
So what?

I would rather they book Asuka as strong, but vulnerable, because I am 100% certain that if they wrote her as goldberg style dominant, they would write themselves into a corner and the end result would hurt her in the long run even more than people think this match with emma did.

Roman Reigns

Look obviously if thats the match she was told to do 100% down the line then it is not her fault. But if what dessy said is what happened then it isnt

I am inclined to at least take what he says at face value given his experience as a wrassler.

Figgy, while i think a straight up assfucking of Emma would have started Asuka with a bang I am not saying that is what had to go down. The problem was Asuka didnt get to shine. She seemed average. It may as well have been Steve Lombardi going over Renee Goulet on prime time.

Instead of Emma being elevated to Asuka's perceived level of badassery (which wasnt even the point of the match but would be the only positive of being so competitive with a bottom feeder) Asuka was brought down to seeming equal with Emma. It was a good match but I think they didnt execute in the way they should have. Though Emmas shit looked good.

It just required subtle nuance. To me it was like 60\40 Emma. And she kept fucking countering everything Asuka did. She didnt need to die but there were points where she was just beating Asukas ass lol

If they were going 9 minutes the smart thing to do to start the match would have been to have Emma attack her before the bell and a couple of spots outside the ring. Once they got in the ring and the match started Emma could have gotten in some of her offense before Asuka hulked up beat the shit out of her. I didn't watch the match but seen the match on Raw which seems to have been the same match.

Nah, they got her to do a promo in the gimmick or something and everyone shuddered and moved on. It was her big chance for a push she couldn't pull it off.

I don't think that was supposed to be the gimmick. I think the idea was more that she was a throwback to the Sunny days, and this would rub the "progressive" women the wrong way. It was a Diva gimmick, but it wasn't supposed to be a non-wrestling one.

Good for her. That's all they had though.

Vince must hate Asuka so much that this was the straw that broke the camel's back and Asuka got a squash the next week. Yep. Vince hates Asuka.

And yes, Asuka did suffer. She went into those matches super-over, she came out with the fans less interested in her act. That is the exact opposite of what pro-wrestling is supposed to achieve.

But they did that match and it didn't work. The crowd could give two shits. Maybe that does work in New Japan, but when Emma and Asuka did it, Asuka went under. "This should work, that should work," it didn't. They did it that way and it didn't. It's really that simple.

As far as the booking goes, you could argue that Emma should be booked stronger if they are going to get her to go out there and do that match, but how? Who do you put her over? Bayley? Then people will complain that Bayley isn't booked strong enough. Sasha Banks? Yeah, see how well that sits with people. This a problem with women's wrestling in the WWE.

That being said, it's not impossible for talent to be competitive despite a shitty win-loss record. A good worker can do this. They can put shine on the babyface and actually get a crowd into that shit. If it calls for them to show a lot more ass than Emma did, so be it, but they can also do it by giving a lot less. The truth is that Emma is just not that good at her job. If she were a good worker, then people would have bought the work. They gave her two consecutive chances and she blew both of them.

Behind this conversation is an argument about how modern matches are constructed. Every match has to be the same. Everybody needs to get their shit in. If you're the antagonist, you beat up the protagonist for a majority of the match, regardless of whether they are twice your size or half it. If you're in a match longer than 10 minutes, you've got to kick out of each other's finishing moves.

The approach to every match being almost identical is a big part of why wrestling is cold, in my opinion. No one thinks "Hey, how can we actually get this shit over?" Everyone just does the same "good match." If every match is a "good match," then how is any match going to stand out?

In Emma's defense: She's far from the only or worse offender with this. But god is the in-ring fucking boring right now. Go and watch wrestling from before all this artistic combat nonsense. Sure, the matches weren't as long and they weren't as "good," but they contrasted well against the stuff that was good, they seemed organic, and real talent stood out. Shows were more lively and had a sense of urgency. You could buy a finish coming out of nowhere, because sometimes they would.

Fignuts and AT were talking about anyone being able to beat anyone on any given night. Well, they do in WWE at the moment. That's what the 50/50 booking gripes are about. But it also meant something because in addition to those wins, there would be a story behind them. Someone would dominate, or someone would be dominated, and each match could tell a different story. Some were worse, but some were better.

Now EVERY match, except for ones that Braun Strowman is in (funny that he's the most over full-time guy they've got), is the fucking same. The story is the same. The inference from fans in the same. How many times can you hear the same story before you are sick of it?

Dude, during her fucking promo she said she was done being Emmalina. During her one and only promo . It was over before..... nevermind. You obviously have no idea nor care.

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/20...-character-wwe

I wasn't talking about a promo in front of the crowd. I'm talking about why they had her cut that promo in front of the crowd. Why do you think she went out there and said she was done being Emmalina?

So they thought she was not committed enough which also means she never received a chance to play the character. WWW did not let her go out there to see if the crowd wanted it or not.

Emma is not worth 4 pages

Agree with Ruien, Emmalina wasn't given a chance. In the least they could have let her do it and develop the character from there if it didn't go well. Letting her try and fail would have thought her more than what actually happened.

Yes, she did. She got a chance to play the character in front of the people screen-testing her and they said "nope." You can't give Academy Awards to people who fail to get roles because they blow the audition. This is just dumb.

Yes she was. She was given a chance to give Vince ideas and get a massive push. She couldn't do that. Pfft, next.

In regards to who is at fault for Asuka's first two matches, its either the agent or whoever booked it for Emma to have that much offense against someone being hyped up as a dominate force in the WWE. Them having Asuka's 3rd match be a squash should have been a hint the WWE realized they messed up Asuka's aura right off the bat.


Agree. She's at least worth 5 pages minimum, 6 with the EVIL persona.

"Whoever booked emma to have that much offense" haha

If i didnt know any better id think you guys think its just a game of simon says

It's funny that this is coming from you. You, who is the biggest critic on Vince and creative to take them at their word someone does not have the talent to pull off a character.

That's because it is common sense in this scenario. They wanted Emmalina to work -- that's why they did all those vignettes. If you want me to bash WWE in this, I have no clue why they didn't test her before airing all these videos. But if they had struck gold with it, they would have put her on TV instead of Chazzing that shit.

And I've heard Emma promo. It's not good.

Sports Illustrated is reporting that Emma was released because she had "enemies" on the creative team. It might have something to do with her not being able to portray the characters they want her to portray. The same article states that the door is open for her to return down the line, but many consider her departure an "addition by subtraction." I think what that means is that by her not being there, it's one less person to work into plans, book around, cater to, etc. And it opens up a new spot for someone a bit more flexible to come in.

Probably them still being very resentful the Emmalina thing didn't work and her being vocal at times on Twitter about her lack of use for RAW.

They tried an Emmalina-like idea with Lana but even that didn't work or last long. Like BrotherVito mentioned, Eva Marie was probably the only one would could actually pull off what the WWE wanted for the gimmick although she'd eventually run into the same problems as Lana afterwards.

I heard she got fired for being a jerk on Twitter.

Fear not, we'll go more.

There are mixed reports on how she conducted herself backstage. Some say she's lovely, and that was speculated as to how she got her job back in the first place. Others say that she was hard to deal with.

Wait... wasn't the Emmalina change just a mirage? I thought I remember it being something that was suppose to happen, then it couldn't because she was injured for too long, so they just played it out as a big joke because creative had no real storyline for it. It seems to me that you guys are saying that the whole stretch was a planned failure.

I do remember feeling that the TLC match was going on way longer than it should have as I watched it, but as was mentioned above, if they Goldberg'd Asuka, she would have zero longevity on a very thin roster. I can't believe that Emma being fired is solely on the match. My reaction is more feeling that Emma has been around a decent amount of time, but has not been able to "grab the brass ring" with the audience so she became expendable. I hate to see her go, but it is was it is.

Not the Asuka matches though.

I almost forgot that she was released for a hot second back in 2014 for shoplifting an iPad accessory from Walmart.

Protect her and present her as a special attraction. The women's division on RAW is already overflowing with capable performers.

And Asuka can be vulnerable but not in a way where she is giving the jtts of the division most of the match. The njpw comparison doesnt even hold weight because they work different style matches almost every night. Emma and Asuka worked a decent match but it was a standard wwe women's match and the crowd did not give a shit.

Not sure if it is the mainstream audience or the change in the performer's in-ring style once they're promoted to the main roster.

Remember Sami Zayn (on the E&C Pod) stating that the NXT fans feel compelled and responsible for the talent but once they move to the main roster, it is a completely different scenario where the audience may or may not be familiar with their body of work.

I guess that can be attested to Emma's first failed stint on the main roster.

https://threemanbooth.files.wordpres...madanceraw.gif

They are also presented as something valuable in NXT and not treated like a bunch of pussies.

Remember feeling emotional when Bayley defeated Sasha for the NXT Women's title at TakeOver Brooklyn. So much wasted potential.

I think they are building Asuka up to be fed to Roman Reigns.

Goddammit Savior don't give Vince any ideas :fu: :rant:

I'd argue its because WWE does a very poor job bridging NXT with the main roster. NXT gets a lot more freedom to try out stuff but it only carries over if Vince/Creative care. Most of the time its ignored and Creative does a poor job giving fans reasons to care or see why those NXT stars are meant to be special.

Gets worse when considering the stories and rumors about the backstage bickering going on between Triple H's side and Vince/Dunn's side over the direction for callups.

Yeah, lets be clear about something. NXT is a wrestling show, booked with wrestling fans in mind. Raw and Smackdown are segments of a global multimedia empire booked with their investors and sponsors in mind.

The pro-wrestling/sports entertainment dynamic is certainly true, but that fucking Full Sail crowd doesn't help matters, because they will get behind almost anything ironically, and that creates the illusion that these gimmicks are over and that they can work to people who have relatively clean necks.

I stopped watching NXT because of Full Sail. Only watch the Takeovers now. Sucks, because the booking is good enough for me to get behind, but I just can't stand that audience anymore. They've grown to be so obnoxious.

The booking is fairly solid. It can be spotty sometimes, but it's generally logical, which I like.

I always thought Emma was decent.

I hope she re-starts her youtube cooking show

They both were in the women's title match at WrestleMania and Sasha's was the 2nd time.

Emma's negotiation with Stardom ended up after they couldn't agree with her demands.

Reportedly she wanted $2,000 per match, first class airfare, and full creative control.

If she sticks with that at her going rate - she's probably not going to be in the wrestling business any longer.

When was her WWE contract set to expire if she hadn't been released? Maybe they were negotiating an extension and her asking price was way too high and she was being an ass about it. Could have pissed off management, who really didn't have anything for her, and wouldn't see a need to come up with anything if they knew they weren't going to re-sign her. Seems plausible at least if that is seriously her asking price.

If her Instagram is any indication, she's got a modeling career on the side and endorses a few products. It could just be that she wants to take a break from the business unless she was given a crazy good offer, hence the asking price for Stardom.

If and when she wants to get back into it I'm sure her price will go down for bookings.

No, Emma was supposed to come back as Emmalina. But when they trial ran the character, she couldn't pull it off, so they scrapped it and had her go back to Emma.

Or it could just be she overestimates her own worth.

I'm sure she pulled it off fine. More like WWE actually saw the gimmick in action and only then realized it was bad, and then blamed Emma for not being able to play a hot chick.

You really think they would scrap the prototypical hot chick gimmick for a hot chick if they could pull it off? They basically gave the same thing to Lana afterwards. It's easy to blame the company and not hand the talent their fair share of the responsibility.

And Lana did the gimmick for about 3 weeks. Maybe the idea was just bad?

I already tried to explain this to Noid guys.

We can agree it wasn't the Asuka matches though, right?

What actually happened:

Yeah, you sure explained it to me.

I know it's trendy to be all counter-culture and hate on the company and blame them for talent failing. I do it too. I hate the creative direction of the company for the most part. That being said, Emma got multiple chances to prove herself valuable.

* She was called up separately from the other NXT girls and got to be paired with one of the most over sideshow acts at the circus. Was it honest to her NXT portrayal? Of course not. Did it work? Nope. Part booking, but also part her.

*She got repackaged as a heel. Did she receive a push? Not really. That's now entirely her fault, unless she rubbed people the wrong way backstage. But did she blow anyone out of the water? Not at all. Part booking, but also part her.

* She got handed the Emmalina deal, which could have been huge. Look at how successful Sable got with a modicum of talent. Love it or hate it, wrestling is still sexist as shit, and being hot is going to get you air time. The gimmick was dropped because Emma fucking tanked it. This is her fault. Whether it was her choice to not go along with it or whether her accent or some shit got in the way, Emmalina didn't work the way it was supposed to which is why it was scrapped. You don't get to put the cart before the horse on this and reverse causation here. It's not like the company failed with Emmalina; Emma failed with Emmalina. Whether or not the gimmick would have worked is actually irrelevant, because it didn't and now she's out of a job.

* When they turned her heel they tried to use her as an enhancement heel again. What happened? Talent that worked with her got under. Part booking? Sure. You need to make her look strong for her to pass that onto others, but there are plenty of people who can work longer matches and draw people in and get them to invest in the babyface. Emma couldn't do that. She's limited as an in-ring talent and they don't have a heavyweight place for her. She's not entitled to be pushed just because that's the only place she could hypothetically work. They tried that and she couldn't work the gimmick they wanted.

It's not entirely Emma's fault that she was never used to the optimum. But for fuck's sake, it was pretty obvious where she was supposed to deliver and didn't. Couldn't do comedy, couldn't (or wouldn't) do diva, couldn't enhance. Now she's going around asking for $2,000 per appearance and creative control after stating that she does plan to stay in the business. There are escorts hotter than who would actually fuck fans and not charge that much. And they'd work for a full hour.

I like Emma. I think she's gorgeous to look at and I thought her NXT runs were good and I prefer her over most of the other women on the roster. But for fuck's sake, pull your heads out of her ass for a second and look at the evidence in front of you. "Maybe this," "possibly that," "if they had just done this," "if they had given her a huge push at the top maybe she would have been more over." Woulda, shoulda, coulda. They didn't. They didn't have to. They didn't want to. And when they did she didn't want to. And then when they both wanted to she couldn't. How do I know? Because they tried and she couldn't.

Lana is not someone who needs to ever be in a wrestling ring. Plus she was moving from an over act to an untested one. It's a completely different direction to Emma. And a lot of people still don't know whether or not Lana was supposed to be a face or a heel out the gate.

I compared the two, but they're not really equal. You could write an essay on how they are different. But yeah, don't try and convince me that the idea of the gimmick itself is bad. Hot girls are going to get attention in the business -- that's just the way it is. If you really think that being plain old Emma was better, I present to you the evidence of how it turned out for her.

What are you even going on about? Of course the Asuka matches played a part. I think it's largely the consensus that they went on too long, gave Emma too much and cooled Asuka off. Then she got fired. I don't think anyone was ever saying "This one incident is the only reason." It was obviously a compounded issue.

I dunno, man. I just...don't...know.

Noid wrong about a lot of stuff about Emma, right about some other things.

On the whole, though, Emma was good and I will miss her and no one can convince me otherwise.

I feel you, LJ. It's been a tough time for all of us.

Maybe this should be Emmavember instead

I am one hundred percent on board with that. Or maybe we can do Emmacember.

I feel the need to re-state that I like Emma. When she's booked to be a major babyface and she's going blow-for-blow "strong style" with another girl, it's "good" stuff. I agree with that. I can understand why people would say she's "decent" or just not their cup of tea at all. But when it comes to working anything else she loses people.

She was good within a small window, is what I'm trying to say. And she's only 28 or something. She could still make a career out of it and learn to broaden herself. I doubt her Instagram will disappear either.

My fav Emma was heel NXT Emma w/Dana Brooke, where she was feuding with Asuka

I liked that too. It worked in NXT. Emma was so hot in that role.

Yeah. Why couldn't they have just...fucking done that again.

Well, they tried to use her sex appeal and she tanked the gimmick. Sure, it wasn't "Evil Emma," but she had her chance to swing her ass around, give the bosses boners and get herself set for life.

I mean, it didn't click as a serious threat gimmick even in NXT, because she's never been a serious threat. But you need to present her like a serious threat in order for her to play serious threat. Do you get what I mean?

Emma's a fucking paradox, man. If you wanted her then you'd book accordingly. You'd make her look strong all the time so when she came out and shook her ass it felt like a big deal. But they didn't so they didn't and she can't do that without the presentation because it fucking cools everything down.

NXT and WWE are different environments.

They should have just stuck Dana Brooke with her on the main roster. Was it an Emma injury that blocked that? I don't right remember.

Emmalina made no fucking sense.

It was partly injury. It was partly her tanking the gimmick they wanted to push her with. It was partly her being unremarkable. Because, good as she can be within a certain context, she's not remarkable.

It made perfect sense. While Emma was out she was posting all these sizzling photos of herself on Instagram. I came on here and said "If Vince sees these he'll make her a star." He tried. She failed.

Eva Marie got so much fucking heat in NXT because she was doing the diva thing. Sure, that was largely because she couldn't wrestle and the crowd thought they knew it, but Emmalina was going to take elements of that and put it into someone who can at least hold a note.

She'd have been a heel Sable if she could have wrestled. If it had worked, she'd be the Women's Champion right now.

Guys, I know this is hard to swallow, but Emma is largely to blame for her own failures. And she will be largely to credit for her own successes if she keeps working and gets better.

You know who I think is to blame?

Noid.

Yeah, fuck you Noid.

Way to get Emma fired, you asshole.

I love you Noid but if this is true, I won't forgive you.

I will burn all my Val Venis/Danny Basham World Title Fan-Fictions

Yeah and then Brooke was put with Charlotte.

Nah. The crowd was well aware Eva couldn't wrestle, and the heat she was getting was absolutely the wrong heat. To paraprhase Cornette: it wasn't "I want to see this heel get beat up", it was "I don't want to see this heel"... and actually, as it went on, being a heel didn't matter, and it became "please for the love of God get this woman in particular the fuck away from a wrestling ring".

When you have half the audience actively cringe on TV at a very visibly blown spot/bad landing in every match where it looked like she was going to legit kill herself or her opponent or both, and yet the company still stays behind her for months because of whatever heel heat she supposedly got from Total Divas (never watched it, so I don't know and don't care), you should come to realize it isn't out of her being sexy with jealousy directed towards her (subjective: I didn't think she was hot at all) or a "diva", that is a "half them, half her" situation.

She didn't have the ability whatsoever for the plans that were in place, and yet they seemed bound and determined to make her the next top heel for the women's division in spite of all the talent that were active and the ones successfully being trained. It was like the opposite of Daniel Bryan; instead of bypassing a person who is good and over because they don't see it, they were pushing someone who was god awful and very not over, and getting less over because of how clumsy she was in the ring and how unbearable even her canned mic work was. She wasn't improving, but she was still getting the rocket up her ass. It was on her that she wasn't talented, but shame on WWE for continuing to try to shove that square peg in the star hole.

Right on the nose.

It wasn’t the character that got her the heat, it was the performer - and not in a good way.

If you put someone with talent (I don’t know, let’s say for the sake of argument, Emma) in that role in NXT the crowd would have turned her face almost instantly. Yes, NXT is a different animal but that’s the comparison we’re working with.

Speaking of NXT, Emma getting over was one of those things that was oversimplified.

She had talent, and her whole gimmick was weird enough to set her apart, actually "be" a character, and not just be boiled down to bland "I'm going to prove a person with a uterus can kick ass! Girl power!" face or generic evil bitch heel #135. It was awkwardly endearing, much like Bayley was down there. But it got distilled into "weird dancing and bubbles? I don't get it!" on the main roster transition.

Now, if she *did* get the Eva Marie push, I don't think she would have neccessarily gotten over as a face ironically. It hasn't exactly happened for Billie Kay and Peyton Royce; they're absolutely heels. Bianca Belair is shaping up be a tremendous heel, but all things considered, someone will likely have the bright idea to match her up with Street Profits which would turn her face by proxy... got off track. She could have been a decent heel if *she* got the All Red Everything treatment instead of somehow being the dub-in for AJ Lee (that whole "started the Divas Revolution" thing always seemed like a petty, company mandated dig at her much like using Nikki Bella- of all people- to surpass her title reign). But much like asking what if WWE had actually gotten behind the Ryder Revolution instead of having him pop up in cameos at catering when he was at his hottest, we will never know.

It doesn't matter why Eva Marie got heat, the point is that they were going to get Emma to do it and she couldn't or didn't want to, haha.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">MELTZER WROTE A RETRACTION ON EMMA'S BOOKING FEE. APOLOGISE TO EMMA YIS PRICKS.</p>&mdash; rovert (@SoDuTw) <a href="https://twitter.com/SoDuTw/status/931051236626923521?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 16, 2017</a></blockquote>
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God, I fucking miss Emma so much already.