It a match that who goes over doesnt matter anyway. The just need to kill each other for a half hour. It'll get both guys over

AJ wins in 10 seconds.

Clean.

In the Pre-Show.

To accommodate Undertaker's 2 hour long entrance.

Bryan being back honestly makes a Nakamura win more logical.

For as much as they've touted Nakamura vs AJ as a dream match, it's a match we have already seen before. The true dream match is Nakamura vs Bryan. It's the main reason Nakamura is in WWE in the first place.

Nakamura beats AJ for the title, and gets a good strong run leading up to summerslam where he faces Bryan in their second biggest event of the year. Whether Bryan wins or Nakamura retains is a whole other (absolutely loaded) topic.

Mind you I could absolutely see AJ retaining for all the reasons Noid listed, and I wouldn't even be disappointed really, as I like AJ as champ, but the above scenario is the most ideal to me.

I think that logic seeps in to the company's train of thought too. Naka will just look good being there.

Well what do we have here...

Yes they'll just end it with a video package and deafening silence in comparison to the two mid-card guys

Feel like very few stops were pulled in this match. Felt overly safe and formulaic, tbh. The strike exchange towards the end and the finish were really the only real stand out moments in the match for me. Everything else kind of just felt like "getting their shit in", as they would on your standard Raw or Smackdown match. Which for these two guys, still leads to a good match, but no where near what they are capable of, or should be putting on, on a stage this big.

So yeah. Match itself was kind of a disappointment, but the aftermath REALLY softens the blow, because heel Nak opens up lots of possibilities.

Agree with Fignuts 100%, it almost felt like they were limiting themselves or trying to tell a "traditional" WWE Heavyweight match. The problem with that is both of them are popular because they arent traditional WWE Heavyweight or work that style.

Weird and I felt uninspired. Also was the crowd 100% dead like it seemed or were the crowd mics down?

Also agree

Wouldn't be surprised if Styles getting hurt very close to Mania also hampered its potential.

Live crowd was more into the actual main event. Actual main event also had WAY more appeal to any casuals tuning in because it was free. They got it right. Even with the heel turn, AJ and Nakamura closing the show would have been anticlimactic to a comedic level.

What's the point of this heel turn?

I dunno. Don't care though. Heel Nak seems a lot more interesting than what they've been doing.

I guess they might be thinking they're going to have him against Bryan and Styles in coming months, so why not try and shed some of that bland babyface ju-ju.

Big disappointment for me, but a predictable one. Nakamaura was at his best since going to Smackdown! here but still not enough to capture the crowd and own the moment until after the bell rang. I wish it could've been positioned differently but the card was laid out really well... so I think it falls on them not capturing the crowd and owning the moment until after the match. Perhaps I will look at it with different eyes a few years from now.

Posted this in the official thread, but I loved the match. I think WWE television is generally really dumb, but Nakamura "hits it out of the park" in the way that they want. Saw clips of him faking on the Kinshasa -- dude is cheeky as fuck. I love it. I don't know if I will watch just because of Nakamura, but he's really good at what he does, folks, and I think Vince would have been happy with this as an overall performance. Vince used to like stories, and this one has a fairly meaty one for modern WWE standards. And it's simple.

Wrestling is supposed to tell a story of conflict. It's easy to forget that when you get caught up in the internet bubble. There is conflict here. There is conflict between Shinsuke and AJ Styles (obviously). There is also conflict between Shinsuke Nakamura and the fans and what their respect is worth. And there is conflict within himself and whether or not he can make it in the WWE.

I dunno, I kind of dig it. At least until they turn him into a comedy ninja or whatever. For now, I think it's good ol' rasslin. Good Guy Shin comes over to be the big star and be known as the best wrestler in the world, only for the fans to whinge about how disappointing he is, because he's more focused on winning than putting on a show and damaging his body. But he's unable to wrest the WWE Championship away from the real best wrestler on the planet, so Good Guy Shin makes a deal with the devil on his shoulder.

Now I want to see more AJ vs. Nakamura matches, and I'm excited because they might tell an evolving story instead of just being a whole bunch of kicks to the head and kicking out of each other's finishers.

I do wish that the dumb-ass fans would shut the fuck up and boo the heels though. If you're supposed to be smart, play along.

Nakamura is a natural heel. Turning him was a good call even though it's too little too late.

Intellectually, I don't like that I've already seen him lose to AJ Styles, but I'm just going to try and switch my brain off for that program. It'll be nice to see him lead matches instead of sitting in Dolph Ziggler chinlocks for two minutes.

Maybe they just like the heels better and don't care about playing along.

Then fuck up with your annoying chants.

What chants are annoying to you? Only one I really hate is the "you deserve it" chants.

Almost every single one I've heard in clips of the show, to be honest, haha. But within that case "Knees to faces."

Other annoying chants:

"This is awesome"

"This is awful"

"You've still got it" (after Angle threw one punch)

You prefer a silent crowd like in Japan then?

The this is awful chant was great. You've still got it is a bit annoying, yes.

I owe RP an avatar.

Is that what I said?

No that's what I asked.

No.

This is the main reason people were disappointed

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/xqp5z2yARdw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Now, most people weren't naïve enough to think we were going to get the same kind of match, given they are two different companies with two different styles. But there are certain things in that match that made it great that go beyond match styles.

First off they were noticeably quicker in their first outing. Maybe AJ's injury played a factor in this match's slower pace. I don't know.

Secondly, they built to, and hit the bigger spots and near falls in a way that felt organic, and fit into the match naturally. The mania match, as I said earlier just felt much more produced. Hate to use the word choreographed outside of flippy floppy acrobatic junior matches, but that's kind of what it felt like. The Wrestle Kingdom match had much more natural feeling spots and shifts in momentum. Even something like that back and forth exchange at the beginning where AJ dodges the kick at the end. That one little exchange helped to set the tone that the Mania match was missing. WK match really felt like two of the best in the world, repeatedly countering eachother, neither able to maintain control for long because they're both so damn good.


And once again, the mania match was still very good. While it catered more to your typical WWE heavyweight match formula, they still told a good story, and if it were anyone else I'd probably be giving them more praise. The problem is it's not anyone else. It's AJ and Nakamura, and they set the god damn world on fire in their previous match, so it's impossible for me and a lot of other people to see this as anything but underwhelming.

I've actually seen the AJ/Shin match, but thanks for sharing. I might go back and watch it because I remember really enjoying it.

I'm sure the original was faster. AJ and Shin were two years younger, two years fresher and were in what I imagine is a smaller ring with cables and a production style that doesn't mind getting close as opposed to making it look like they are fighting in a huge open space. Even if WrestleMania wasn't faster, I'm sure the emotionless, inorganic, forced commentary that either misses or manufactures emotional cues would have made it felt slower. Seriously, I wonder how much that effected thing?

I dunno, I just loved so much about the Mania match. I loved Nakamura wearing similar colors to AJ Styles, as this symbolic form of respect. I loved Nakamura planting the seeds of desperation throughout. Besides a better crowd, I can't really think of anything that would have enhanced the match for me. Honestly. Not in their first go-around of many, anyway. I think their second match will be more "intense."

I dunno -- I think fans need to be re-educated and reminded that not everything needs to be 100 all the time. I can understand people were probably expecting it for WrestleMania, so maybe it wasn't actually the best place to run the first match between the two. Whatever. I'm as cynical as they come and I fucking loved it. Seriously, I cannot remember a WWE Title match at Mania that I thought was bell-to-bell better. Maybe Angle vs. Brock, but it's been ages since I've seen that. I might be cutting Angle and Eddie short too. I remember being slightly disappointed by that, but I remember the finish with the boot well.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Brock vs. Reigns was still coming. No matter what you think of it, the philosophy was probably there to not go 100 before that so that Reigns kicking out of F5s would get over. That obviously didn't work, but I'm not sure how much "freedom" AJ and Nakamura had here, in the sense that maybe eighteen Kinshasas or whatever wasn't on the table.

That being said, I honestly really liked it. I really enjoyed the performances in the mixed tag, but this was a much better match -- in my opinion.

I think I'm defending it so much because I got the impression from people that they shit the bed. They definitely didn't do that, haha.

I don't think it's that they shit the bed. They just didn't deliver a classic after everyone talking about how it was their chance to deliver a classic. But they executed the heel turn well, which was what counted.

I dunno, I think I'll remember that match for a long time. Styles calling bullshit on Shin's cockiness; the counter to good vibrations; Nakamura's caterwauling; his kick to Styles perched on top; Kinshasa to the back of the head; that perfect Phenomenal Forearm; the finish. I only remembered the back body drop, the missile dropkick and the dragon superplex from Omega/Okada.

I get that people were disappointed, and they follow closer than me; but I fucking loved this match. It reminded me of Angle vs. Benoit from X-7. Thought it was great. I'm reluctant to throw "classic" at something so soon after it's happened.

Honestly, I'm taking a wait and see approach. It's entirely possible that after deciding on the Nak heel turn, they told them to take it easy in this match, so as not to blow their wad on the first match of the feud. Better to have the harder hitting, more intense match when things are more personal. So as a one off rematch of their WK encounter it may be underwhelming to me, but as one part of a greater overall story, I think I will appreciate it more.

If WWE can manage to make that story compelling.

I think Styles and Nakamura have their faith. I just have this feeling that Vince is a legitimate fan of AJ Styles. He went from having him cut-off from speaking in segments to being "The Face that Runs the Place." When the WWE Champion flops, either as a face or heel, he's the first port of call. He's like Bret Hart, I suppose. And I think Vince "gets it" enough with Nakamura, or else he wouldn't be in this position. And I can just imagine heel Nak's antics cracking Vince up.

I think he will be "out of their way" on this one and kind of watching as a fan. It's just a hunch. The storytelling between the participants -- including Daniel Bryan on SmackDown -- has been brilliant thus far. I do hope people look back at this more fondly and as a building thing.

I'd need to re-watch the match. But the crowd was exhausted by the time they went on, and they fell into the "big move" sell for a minute into another "big move" sell for a minute, way too fast. IE. WWE style.

In saying that... there were some really nifty spots, and they didn't fuck anything up. It just didn't feel "special" until the heel turn which I legit did not see coming.

I thought it was fluid as fuck. I didn't notice a botch anywhere. But I'll also probably go back and re-watch it. I didn't watch it as part of the show either. I saw it in isolation.

I'll also re-watch it, because at that point I was pretty exhausted. They do this every fucking time. They space out the big matches in between the low key bouts, so you have this up and down emotional roller coaster that has you tired by the last few matches.

Meanwhile, Wreslte Kingdom while not as long, is still a brutally long show. But it flies by because there is a natural progression from lower card bout to main event. Mania gives their audience too many oppurtunities to breathe and relax, killing the momentum. Kingdom just builds and builds your adrenaline and excitement, never even giving you the chance to get tired.

Yeah, that's a big problem that didn't factor into my enjoyment, because I was mainly interested in Styles/Nakamura so I just sought that out.

While the match didn't quite live up to expectations, it was far from terrible. I think I heard that Styles was hurt, which is why it didn't quite deliver.

Yep. I think the consensus was it was good. "Far from terrible" is even harsh.

I honestly think the terrible way they booked the D-Bry match killed the crowd. It made me fucking insane that they did the god damned injury angle. He's been injured for the better part of 3 years. Milking it even more towards the end of a 7 hour show is just fucking retarded. Sucked the life out of the crowd.

The problem was they just did the wait for the hot tag with Ronda and Angle. Guess they could have Bryan start the match and just never tag out. Shane could have pulled Owen's down from the apron and brawled with him outside the entire time which would let Shane do Shane things. And Bryan gets his moment of course.

Are the rumble participants gonna be coming out every minute or will it be 2 minutes like a regular rumble? Show will be way too long if its 2 mins

WrestleMania is like 16 hours long now. They're not afraid to go way too long.

Probably just every minute though. Lame.

I heard during the pre-show they are going to behead someone.Those arabs know how to put on a show. PrettyCool.

It sounds really dumb how they put that together. Cornette came up with a better way on the fly. I'd probably have had Bryan just destroy Zayn and Owens for the opening portion of the match, then when he gets done, he tags in Shane who wants a piece. Shane gets his shit in as much as he needs to, and then he takes a bit of a beating and tags in Bryan who goes into kill mode and maybe we get an elbow from Shane and Bryan wins the match for the team.

I dunno, that might not be great, but I don't think people were really tuning into WrestleMania to see Bryan get injured or even sell that much. There will be a time and place for this story, but this should have just been "Holy shit! D-Bry's back! Look how fucking good he still is!"

I mean... that is booking 101. Would have definitely been better.