I was watching the Royal Rumble with one of my roommates and his girlfriend, and they were mostly making fun of it. It was a lot more fun than talking about how the booking was stupid and how Vince is out of touch or whatever.

I’ve watched with a few casuals, and what’s surprised me as a recurring theme is how many
Of them hate Dolph Ziggler. “Hate” might be a strong word, but most of them found him really annoying.

It's probably his hair.

They didn’t like his hair! They often didn’t like his cool, in general. One of these times around the time he was wearing the paint on his face. I’ve heard him called a “freak” and a “try-hard.

When did he wear face paint?

I used the wrong term. He used to do the commando streaks on the face for a while there, like Rambo or something.

On a related note, does anyone actually miss Ziggler? It really doesn’t seem to matter that he’s gone, and I can’t think of an interesting thing I’d have him do.

I've watched the show with other people where we've done the same thing and there's some merit to what you're saying. Unfortunately, RAW is a weekly 3 hour show on a Monday and you can't always have your friends over to rip the shit out of it.

Also, wrestling's quality can go far beyond "cheesy show my friends hate-watch with me."

It can actually just be good and not the fucking worst thing ever.

Again, I watch house shows from 1984 where the in-ring quality is horrendous and I'm 100% sure most people here would hate it. Yet I love it. So I just don't think your point holds any weight. More just seems like you're propping yourself up on a pedestal for being better at watching wrestling than other people (surprise, surprise).

Not liking the current state of wrestling doesn't have to do with other people not liking it. It has to do with the fact that it sucks.

I just don’t get how watching it with people “making fun of it” is fun but when they shit on the booking, THAT’S the line.

Thrilla is just taking an anti-cynicism approach. In reality, I'm not a cynical person either. But when you are trying to get some legitimate and sincere enjoyment out of pro-wrestling in 2019, it's a fucking hard disposition not to take, and it's not fans' fault for thinking it sucks. Especially when the only way to enjoy it yourself is with people mocking it.

I don't know if it has gotten any better than it used to be since i got rid of Hulu years ago (Seriously, why charge people for a commercial-free experience, then keep charging them but add commercials as well? Defeats the purpose of me giving you money, dickheads!), but they used to trim too much of the fat much like AM RAW. They would crop commercials (with a big fucking asterisk, see my previous bitch about that), and if you didn't care for the pomp and circumstance, all the entrances were gone as well... but then they would also cut some backstage segments, sections of matches, and sometimes even entire matches that could fuck up context, like that missing match being an important angle setup for next Monday, but you won't know what that person is talking about when they say "remember what you did to me last week?"

Sometimes, some of that stuff cropped could be as important as the matches themselves, and you're leaving it in the hands of a production crew to arbitrarily decide what was "must see" for the sake of brevity.

What I'm getting at is, hopefully in your case, they aren't making a bad show worse by bad editing.

They aren't getting strangers to marry each other for the enjoyment of an audience.

They don't give somebody a briefcase and make them open others to find out how much money they could win.

They don't glorify three useless women and the rest of their family and elevate them to superstar status because their original dad got OJ Simpson off of murder chargers.

Whatever Crissley knows best and the spinoffs are.

They once did a horribly acted skit that parodied a Jerry Springer episode as a prank on Jerry Springer to no ones enjoyment.

They give people briefcases that allow them to pin half dead people to win titles.

They glorify plenty of useless people. The fact that they don’t have the ability to elevate any of them to stardom isn’t exactly a point in their favour.

You’re gonna have to try WAY harder if you want to convince people WWE is above any of these shows you’re referencing.

Vince would fucking jump at the chance to have a Kardashian on his show. It’s just more cost-effective to have Grumpy Cat guest host.

One, I was going to mention MitB, and Fan bet me to it.

Two, you shut your goddamn mouth about Deal or No Deal! Watching people throw away life-changing money just for the chance of a larger amount of life-changing money is schadenfreude-tastic!!!

The same could easily be said of that entire Bella Twins feud...wasn't it just some horribly contrived "blood feud" to try and drive up ratings for Total Bellas?

Oh yeah. The Bella blood feud that ended when Brie was forced to be Nikki’s slave for a month and before the month was even over, they were randomly friendly again with no explanation.

Seriously, that is some shitty writing that is unrivalled by anything else on TV. If you just TRY to tell a logical story, you’ve got that beat.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more WWE really creeps down there. It doesn’t even achieve what it sets out to do. The only thing I will say is that TNA is still on TV, if you count it’s channel with under 60,000 viewers TV.

lol you are such a fuckwit. I love that your ego won't allow you to admit that the kardashians are better t.v. than the WWE. You're a sad, semen-encrusted man.

lol and this was AFTER Nikki had wished that her own twin had died in the womb

I don't watch TV and I doubt RAW is the worst show.

I can't believe the WWE actually think that they deserve Emmys.

Curt Nennig

I'm npt sure if it's still going but 2 Broke Girls.

Maybe you like the satisfying conclusions to their main events?

The answer is officially yes.

I bet Game of Thrones is going to end when Conan the Barbarian and He-Man run in and beat up both the Night King and Jon Snow.

Not even proper 80's He-Man. "New Adventures of" version with short hair and the skinny jeans.

Fuck no. Tripe like Friends,Fresh Prince and SVU are much worse.

Don't hate on Friends. THEY WERE ON A GODDAMN BREAK.

Lol, Friends and Fresh Prince?

I would much rather watch reruns of all of these shows than current episodes of RAW.

What odd examples. Lol

SVU gets over 5 million viewers an episode. So it's more watched than WWE. So, by that metric it's not worse than Raw. I mean, if you don't like police procedurals then that's fine, but as far as prime time drama goes, I think it's fairly well respected and no one would say it isn't well made. Mariska Hargitay gets more Brock Lesnar money than Brock Lesnar for working that show.

I don't think so, but The Big Bang Theory is in its final (thank fuck) season.

You want to talk about garbage TV? I dare you to top Two And-A-Half Men. Unwatchable, even with Angus T. Jones and that woman from the pizzeria scene (the "I'm gonna cut you into 12 slices of bitch-eroni!" woman) from Mr. Deeds couldn't salvage it even a little bit. Charlie Sheen thinks he's so funny, but he's lowest common denominator BS.

Give me N.Y.P.D. Blue any day over the rest. Dennis Franz as snarky and always angry Detective Andy Sipowicz kicks ass.

I don't like that show either, but when you're talking lowest common denominator BS, isn't wrestling down there too?

Also, it ended, like, four years ago.

I can’t stand Big Bang Theory but it’s WAY better written than the lazy nothingness that is Raw.

Yeah, that's a point too.

Jesus Christ, Stephanie McMahon is both a heel and a face on the same show some weeks.

We call those characters "tweeners".

No "we" don't. You do. And that's not even a correct definition of a tweener. A tweener is someone between the face and heel dichotomy, usually transitioning from one to the other. It's often code for "not over." But that's not the same as being a heel in one segment and a babyface in another.

:roll:

Wtf. You interject and then roll your eyes? What even are you? Go to bed.

Yes, I should go to bed at 7 at night because clearly I'm either a kindergartener or a geriatric. Fuck you.

Well, the shoe fits there.

Is it possible to be both?

Lol, imagine thinking that Stephanie McMahon was a tweener.

You could work a late shift.

It's working hard to try and get there as of late.

Has anybody not voted that is going to? Looks like Raw wins.

STD, you feel pretty strongly about this. Give us a reason to watch Raw. What makes Raw not terrible in your opinion?

Currently a tie. Plus the fact that a lot of people who voted “no” did so while commenting that it’s really bad, just not the worst...

Big win

Wrestlers work hard for your entertainment. More in-ring product than during the attitude era. Everybody is a top-tier athlete.

Nobody voting Yes has refuted the point about Chrisley Knows Best.

Lots of people work hard. The Kardashians work hard. Hitler worked hard. That doesn’t mean they’re entertaining. Which part of “they’re trying their best” is supposed to entice viewers to watch Raw?

the people producing Chrisley knows best probably work hard too.

Anyways, you know what's sad? I'd rather watch a 1985 squash match between Randy Savage and Rick QuickDraw McGraw than Seth Rollins vs AJ Styles. I like those guys a lot but RAW and WWE is so shit that despite the immense athleticism and 'workrate' of those involved, the matches aren't really that entertaining. Just a bunch of moves and a story that exists in a vacuum.

I bet you that Chrisley Knows Best, whatever the fuck that is, is better produced for its genre than WWE is for its. I take your Chrisley Knows Best and raise you this gif:

http://cdn3.whatculture.com/images/2...d0-600x338.gif

They seriously think they deserve Emmys.

This is the stupidest fucking argument I’ve ever heard.

And I’ve engaged in conversations with Droford, FFS.

More in-ring product doesn't automatically mean good TV.

For example, Baron Corbin is a featured act on RAW and he fucking sucks. More Baron Corbin matches means the show is objectively worse.

See also: Lashley.

I give 0 shits about more in-ring product if there’s no stories being told or the stories being told are shit. And I’m pretty sure I’m in the vast majority of potential viewers.

What’s this? You don’t find wrestlers wrestling to build momentum a compelling storyline? What about wrestlers trying to get on a roll? What about wrestlers trying to make a statement? No? Jesus, you’re tough. You should be more grateful that these wrestlers are working hard for your entertainment.

I’d accept just building momentum or wrestling simply because winning matches is important as a story. Even pre-2000s squash matches told a story. Doesn’t have to be too complex.

I have no idea why most matches in WWE nowadays happen. They drill the point home that the outcomes don’t mean anything. So fuck the in-ring product.

Ricochet losing to Bobby Roode but then getting put into Money in the Bank might seem inconsequential, but it’s a wonderful example of this company just not making sense and things happening for no reason.

Was catching up on Smackdown today and I realized that it is so much better than RAW because (among other things) Michael Cole is not there. I don't know if it's been mentioned here, but his grating voice yelling "IT'S BOSS TIME" and shit really hurts the show.

The commentary is all-round terrible though.

The only irritating thing about Smackdown's commentary is whenever Graves continues his shtick from RAW with the random bickering to Saxton. Once in a while its funny but most of the time it just comes off as him being really irritating.

Started to appreciate Saxton more on commentary when he was paired with Percy Watson for the Worlds Collide specials since it showed he can be pretty decent on commentary when given a more relaxed or friendly environment to do so.

Tom Phillips is a massive improvement over Michael Cole and he and Graves work well together.

Saxton is by far the best main show commentator they have simply because he knows when to shut the fuck up.

I watched a few segments on SmackDown the other week. Saxton was a lot less irritating than I remember. He was still not good, by any stretch, but commentary has gotten so bad that he seems like one of their best.

Maybe you like a wrestling show with no wrestling?

After this week's Raw, I am changing my answer to "yes".

Welcome to the party!!

It's started to affect SDLive too.

I had to turn my beloved brand blue off when I saw a graphic onscreen saying "Tonight is Shane McMahon Appreciation Night".

Unfortunately for the WWE, the Creative team isn't "creative" enough to come up with compelling characters that can captivate an audience or bring in new fans. Hence - instead of building two brands and increasing the overall depth of both shows, you now have two very sub-par rosters. The same thing happened 17 years ago when the WWE attempted the roster split. I have been a wrestling fan for quite some time and so it's entirely possible that I know what I'm talking about here.

I think we need to update the question. It’s clear Raw is the worst show on television now. But where does Raw rank as the worst show in television history?

Sound off in the replies below.

The constant camera cuts alone have made it the most unwatchable show ever before we even get into creative.

here is a good one which is a better show raw or impact

Impact by a country mile.

guess roh beats raw too

Impact is a fun watch

I've been to Impact tapings since D'Amore and crew took over and they are a lot of fun. They used to tape shows in my city pre-pandemic

Still 100% true.

Raw is even worse now than 2 years ago, but any wrestling show beats 99% of reality shows, singing or dancing competitions, or murder reenactment shows.

Other than other wrestling shows or live sports, television is pretty bad. It's why all the streaming companies win all the TV awards when they technically aren't even TV shows.

netflix green lights some real shit. raw is lightyears better than some of the shit youll find on there

Probably a tier or two above all-time worst tier since those type of terrible shows rarely last long or get canned very quickly.

RAW's been more bad than good throughout its history but most of its bad has been mediocre instead of outright terrible. Only reason its still in a comfortable spot on USA Network is solely due to USA Network's failure at creating enough big hit shows to ever be a real threat to RAW.

NXT's move to Tuesdays shows what would happen to RAW if USA Network ever got a strong enough replacement for it.

They certainly do, but they also have quite a lot of really good shows and movies that I would much rather watch, than an episode of raw.

well im certainly not sayin "fuck netflix its shit" im just saying the crown for "worst shit on TV" is only RAW if you're being reactionary.

for instance go watch "bonding" and tell me its better than even the worst single segment
of raw you can think of. there's some bottom of the barrel content out there that would make me beg for raw.

Yea it is nowhere near close to the worse show on TV. Not even in the bottom half.

If TNA is on TV (I don't know if it is) then WWE is not even the worst wrestling on TV.

I was red hot about AEW and I really loved it for the first 6 months or so. Then i started to sour on it. Now i watch it maybe two times a month. I think they are bad. But not nearly as bad as WWE Monday Night RAW. The things i see on RAW are absolutely terrible. The things i see on Smackdown are mostly terrible except Reigns and Bryan and anyone involved in that storyline ( though i'm coming around to the Crews, Nigerian storyline because they finally are doing something legit with him and I kinda like it ).

RAW has been so bad. And the saddest thing about it is that McIntyre should be a mega superstar. They had no idea what to do with him. They've squandered him beyond belief.

I do give kudos to WWE finally giving Lashley a run, but they are so late to the party on Lashley and because of it, they might be late to the party on McIntyre and they have really fucked themselves. Not to mention the entire RAW show is so unwatchable. I'm not sure who is writing that shit but there is 0 continuation, 0 heart, 0 urgency, 0 everything. WWE could actually just book house shows as a RAW show and get away with it at this point. It would be no different than what they are doing now.

WWE/WWF used to have patience. They used to tell a story. Now it seems like they hope the fans make a superstar for them. And even if the fans make a superstar for them, they manage to fuck that up too!

Money has become so involved with the WWE product, that I'm not sure they can ever recover and put a decent product out for the regular fan.

If i were running WWE and money were not involved, I would put Roman Reigns on RAW right now. But money and contracts are involved. So that will never happen. And so the WWE product has become a mainstream rich mans product.

WWE has literally evolved past the regular internet forum fan. And it's not coming back.