you find something thats not popular music besides classical...well maybe bluegrass. but even thats pop to an extent.

what exactly are you arguing at this point?

singers aren't musicians in popular music, which is all music except classical music.

so where do you stand on primarily vocal groups like the Flying Pickets? They don't have any instruments apart from their voices. Is what they produce 'music' in your eyes?

or have you become confused as to what you were arguing, like us?

harmoney in vocals is music.

but... I thought you said singers weren't musicians. How can they make music if they aren't musicians?

me so confused.

its hard to explain. it would take awhile for you to get where im comming from.

it seems that way. Your point is fragmented and makes no sense.

who exactly are you saying isn't a musician?

my opinion will be out later this year in paperback and hardcover forms. :naughty: :D
LOOK AT ME IM A DRUMMER :drool: :y:

This guy makes you look like a fu</>cking ROCKET SCIENTIST.

If you want to take a REALLY wide technical view of popular, someone likes EVERYTHING. But then, by your own logic, that would make Classical popular. "Omnia Mundi," for example, is a VERY popular classical piece. Classical music is generally pop music of days past. Mozart was the Lennon of his day, Bach the Elvis. Granted, being the bad boy of the music industry didn't mean as much of a change at that point, as Bach wasn't out there grinding his hips as he played his keyboard...

Bluegrass is a shit example, because the biggest seller in the US is COUNTRY music. Not Rap (Though it's an up-and comer), not rock, not heavy metal, not ska, punk, emo, folk, or whatever you can mention.

So we're talking in a giant circle here.

How about harmonic interplay between vocals and other instruments? And if it's not music, why does so much popular music revolve around the vox and lyrics and not the "music?"

i prefer listen to the music over the vocals...vocals do make or brake a band but the truth is most singers out there cant hit a note if their lives depended on it. face facts. pop music vocalists suck. like RA. decent enough band but the vocals leave something to be desired. trapt now they just suck at music and coulnt write a good riff if it killed them. if your strictly going on vocals hitting notes and harmoney is a must.

So you prefer the music, and THAT makes vocalists not musicians? Lovely argument there, chief. :y:

:roll:

By the way, the vox for Ra are awesome. You can complain, but I've heard yoru band's vocalist, so I'd say that those who live in shit houses shouldn't cry about another's smell...

By the way, it's "harmony."

Seeing as how it's central to your argument, and you seem like you're going to be using it a lot, you might as well know how to spell it.

also, there are pop music vocalists out there with greater range and power to their voices than the vast majority of opera singers. Listen to someone like Kristy Thirsk or Tori Amos and tell me they don't have technically astonishing voices. Hell, listen to Ruben Studdard and tell me he hasn't got a beautiful rich voice.

Freddie Mercury. Great pop vocalist who had classical/operatic training and a huge vocal range.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/3...y300x180as.jpg

Lewis Moody is the man though, here he is scoring agains't New Zealand

ra dosent have a good singer. tori amos plays piano. therefore she is much more than just a singer.

And Ra's singer does more than just vocals.

what play bad guitar parts?
im looking at the drumming when i judge a band.

you might as well say 'tori amos sings, therefore she is much more than just a pianist'

her songs 'me and a gun' and 'wampum prayer' are a capella. They are amongst the best things she has ever done.

Yes, she is a truly excellent piano player, but she is also a truly, truly EXCELLENT singer. She has an incredible, well trained voice with an astonishing range, tone and quality. THis is not invalidated by the fact that she happens to play the piano.

pah. Drummers aren't musicians. They just hit things.

yes, I'm sure you do. I'm sure that's the only part of a band that counts as "music," too.

Seriously, when your band learns to play, I'll take your criticism of other music a little more seriously. Til then. :lol:

Dude i think your right, i saw it somewhere Evanescene is on the 3rd place with their cd in the charts :y:, they where on 10th place and now they are on the 3rd :D

Wouldn't be surprised. Take some poppy metal, throw in a pair of tits, and you've got a Smash Hit.

Your right look at Britney (slut) Spears and Christina (X) Aguilera

now cross them with Linkin Park, and BAM! You have Evanescence's success.

and this brings us back to harmoney.

ive yet to see your bitch ass post your music. therefore **** off and i dont care. anything you say will never be taken into account as far as im concerned.

Because I'd rather not post half-assed demos, I don't post music on here. Is it that hard a concept to grasp? To you, it must be. Your music is absolute shit and you cry when people don't call you God. Those of us who don't want to sound as pathetic and talentless as you don't bother unless we have something professional worth putting up.

how does it bring us back to harmony when she's a solo artist who performs without backup singers?

she can harmonise with herself. hitting the proper notes

she can harmonize with herself?

unless she can sing two notes at the same time (and the human throat isn't capable of such a feat) I don't know how she could harmonize with herself

this is quite possible with the right equitment

you could RECORD yourself harmonizing with yourself (and indeed Tori does on most of the songs in Boys For Pele), but I still fail to see how you could sing more than one note at the same time.

vocal processors

I have no idea what you're talking about right now.

i dont even sing and ive used one. come on. you dont know what a voice processor is?

Except that vocal effects processors are setting up a computer to perform harmonically with you. You're still not singing more than one note at a time.

actually you could be when used right.

No, because your vocal chords only produce one note at a time. You can SIMULATE harmony through recordings or synthesis, but you're only singing one note.

If you're still having trouble with the concept, I can speak slower and with smaller words.

please do...jackass.

you do realize this only goes on because i love being a prick to your bitchass

More like because you're too stupid to know when to quit.

actually thats quite untrue

kanes a ****ing douche. ive been comming to this messageboard under various names for years...

The last two posters in this thread are both douches :naughty:

i liked it...

I know what a vocal processor is. I don't have any idea what that has to do with the inability of the human throat to sing two notes at the same time.

Trying to think of what you COULD mean, I've only been able to come across two ways you could simulate the effect of solo harmonization live.

1) pre-record one vocal track. Bad idea because you could get out of time with yourself. Some people still do it though.
2) artificially raise or lower the pitch of the voice singing, and play the doctored and original vocals at the same time. Usually sounds really horrible. The only time I can think of that I've heard it working really well live was Jarvis Cocker of Pulp performing 'party hard' at Glastonbury 1998.

don't get me wrong, for more than one vocalist, good harmony is essential. However, for a quality solo artist, synthesized harmony sounds bloody awful.

Yes, I believe you. Simply because you said it's not so, means it's not so. :lol:

If you spend enough money, you can get a machine that will harmonize with everything you do, and it'll sound like 4 of you in perfect harmony. In fact, people who know how to sing harmony without a machine dislike the synthetics.

Granted, everyhourdylan's shown that he has no concept of what a good vocalist by giving us a link to his band. It's pretty obvious that he doesn't really understand a vocal processor beyond "It maekz k3w1 n0YZ."

The worst part is that most vocal processors, whether purchased for effects or synthetic harmony, blow. I use bass pedals for my vocal effects, personally. Nothing like Chorus, but I use Fuzz and Flange.

A lot of big groups that do vocal processing live have a couple laptops backstage doing the processing. This includes most form of vocal processing, except the standards, like reverb.

They've got some really cool programs for effectively altering vocals and pitch, but it's still mostly for people who want 4-part vocals and lack an ear for harmony.

i know much more than you think i know...hate to break it to you...ive been doing this for years.

I'm sure you have. And you're proving how much you know by offering up erroneous, false, and stupid information.

Good plan, chief.

Crying when someone calls you a moron when you demonstrate yourself as one.

All that knowledge of vocal processors, and you can't even use one to make your vocalist sound like he knows how to sing. Good demo. :y:

um yeah what ever you say.

if you've been working with vocal processors for years, then surely you know that a great voice sounds MUCH better unprocessed than processed. You'd also know that all the technical wizardry in the world means nothing if there isn't a voice to work with.

You'd also know that a singer is as much a musician as someone who makes their music with an instrument.

Oh, but he knows more than you think. :lol:

Of course, it would require he had some understanding of the human voice, and listening to his demos, he's pretty clearly clueless...

yeah because your always right!

It must be hard to have to pull that card when you're clueless on the subject upon which you speak.

Okay, im confused. Someone told me Amy and Ben Moody are or were married...true?

neither. They were engaged at one point, I think. But not even that can be confirmed/denied except by Ben/Amy and maybe their families.

Oh...damn people.

And now she's with some guy from seether, right?

Yeah, Shaun Morgan.

I will admit that I am mad jealous.