I don't know why, but neither Punk nor Kennedy strike me as the next big stars. Trips and Rock while at mid-card level did. Austin did. I'm not seeing it really. I'm looking forward to seeing Kennedy vs Batista at Rumble tho. It's certainly his big chance.

That's not what I heard...

Me too

What did you hear...

Heyman wanted Punk to choke Show out during the Elimination Chamber. The two agents (producers, whatever the fuck they call themselves) who were in charge of the match said Punk isn't over and the Vice isn't over. These two guys are Arn Anderson and Finlay. They go to Vince and tell him to put Lashley over in the Chamber. The rest is WrestleCrap history.

This week Holly was supposed to win, with either cheating or a weapon shot. Then again the agents changed the finish to Punk losing clean.

Foolish NODQ

BTW I'm gonna believe the one Innovator said

Yea, Skippord, if you go far enough back on NoDq, they had the exact same thing Inno posted up. Take NoDq(and all sites like that) with a grain of salt.

I may not be the biggest Punk fan, but some of the reasoning I heard is kinda crap. Unless some people are just starting out in wrestling, I don't get this whole "paying their dues". And there seems to be a double standard when it comes to big guys and little guys. They sign a freak out of a movie who can't even wrestle, and put him in the main events. But yet someone the size of Punk has to "pay dues" even though he has wrestled for years, albeit other companies.

It just seems now that Punk has the RVD path going for him. Since he has gotten over on his own pisses off all the big honchos, and therefore will do anything to kill his push.

And as far as Holly being there for 14 years, therefore he should get the win is BS. If he has been there that long, then he should be putting over the younger talent, not destroying them.

QUICK! Give Brooklyn Brawler the WWE title! He's been there for over 20 years!

Finkel for WWE Champion

:lol: I wonder if Punk did something (Smarktard: of course not! He's CM PUNK? PUUUUUUNK! WWE is just stupid) or if people are just against him backstage (Which would be a real change of attitude).

Being associated with Heyman in WWE is like wearing a Nazi symbol down the middle of the street during a Jewish parade.

"Also, some of the agents believe that he's "Heyman's guy", and that's he's not really very good and his being over is a fluke that was created by Heyman"

Heyman's guy? What like Foley, Benoit, Jericho, Eddie, Rey, RVD and others?

I'm sorry, but saying Holly is the bigger star is like telling my Jewish grandma that the holocaust never happened.



*edit- Had to take out a rant because for some reason I read the word "biggest" instead of "bigger"

Kinda want to punch Arn in the face rn

I predict that CM Punk will lose more than 50% of his matches over the next 12 months and that he will last about 30 seconds in the Rumble.

And yet, several people who would seem to fit that definition have done fine in WWE, so I'm not particularly sure this is the reason.

Spoiler Alert:


(1) CM Punk vs. Matt Striker. Joey Styles notes that Punk lasted 28 minutes in the Royal Rumble. Striker wins a short match by holding the ropes. I guess Punk remains in the dog house.

Okay, babies, you now actually have some sort of trend to piss and moan about. Your crying is now somewhat justified.

...As is the urine in your training pants.

credit:wrestling observer newsletter
Someone may want to confirm this though as I didn't get this from the Observer myself.

Has the thought even crossed Vince's mind, that maybe he should have that type of attitude cause he's better then almost all the WWE's top guys ?

Wait. Am i kidding myself or what? Vince lost his mind years ago.

Read that too. It was on Observer.

If anyone else had the attitude CM Punk has right now, they'd be all over him on this board.

I like CM Punk, but he's doing some damn stupid shit.

:lol: Looks like my spoof wasn't too far off the mark.

What exactly has he done? I've heard all this shit about how he's got an attitude, but I've never heard exactly what he's done to earn that rep.

Kissed his girlfriend

the bastard

Made Maria not want to give Vince handjobs.

Seriously, if kissing his girlfriend is the only thing he did then that is just fucking sad.

He's a jobber.

If Punk does have an attitude, maybe it's because he out-popped the biggest face act the WWE had (despite being on the C-brand)? I'm sure having Maria ride you doesn't help.

Randy Orton has an attitude, what happens to him? Push, push, push.

Even if CM Punk has an attitude problem, and that's a big if...why the fuck should that interfere with him getting a push? Money is money right? Punk is one of the few guys in the WWE that could be HUGE. The WWE is missing a huge opportunity.

Let me get this straight.

They are de pushing Punk, cos he has an attitude problem and they don't think he's money.

But they are worried about him going to TNA and becoming a star?

Hypocracy alert!

Gee, selective enforcement from the wrestling community?

Psh. You're full of shit. :roll:

It's apparently not, as lame as I think it is that they're reacting with "heat" for this. Reminds me of that Simpsons episode. "You're kissing a girl? That is so gay."

I especially liked that Push where Orton jobbed out to the Undertaker for like a year straight.

A "star" in TNA is about a "Velocity" level wrestler.

However, the major point is that they don't want him to get big. Though I think it's hypocritical (Hey, you didn't seem so worried about attitude with Brock), it's a pretty common thing. If Punk had half a brain, he'd be wary of being cocky without important friends or the support of Vince. Still, it comes back to They don't want him to succeed/they want to punish him. That's the bullet point.

Now, if you don't want someone to succeed, why send them off to someone else?

Well, there's still the notion that they think he COULD be successful that strikes me as kind of odd. People in wrestling seem to take things WAY too personally.

Also, I think a lot more people should lose to Matt Striker, seeing as to how he is the man. Moreso than CM Punk, for sure.

Yea CM Punk is dead as a doornail, just like Paul Levesque was in 1996 after getting in the doghouse. He never came back from that....

Henry Godwinn went on to huge stardom, though. :y:

What about main eventing WrestleMania when he can't even work on the fly?

The only Mchman(gods I suck at spelling) availible for him to wed to get out of the dog house isn't a year old.

Triple H was out of the doghouse and headlining PPVs as champion long before he was involved with Stephanie off-screen.

Innovator better think twice before he kisses his boyfriend in public

Jerictron's right. Shadow's being a 'tard again.

I'd like to reiterate that I called this first.

Anyways, where was his 'pop' at the Rumble? Matt Hardy got more of a reception than him.

Most people keep saying that he 'got pops bigger than the stars' and all that, I'm still to hear them. Survivor Series aside, I'm not sure he was ever that over. Then again, Punk himself obviously thought he was. Arrogant prick.

His Survivor Series pop is extremely exaggerated on these boards.

Not that much of a disappointment if he is getting "depushed." I didn't expect him to be used properly from the outset, regardless of his backstage attitude.

And this is assuming that he is being depushed, which is assuming that he even had that much of a push to begin with. I love Punk, but he hasn't exactly been setting the world on fire in ECW.

In fact, thinking about it, there isn't much lower than losing to Matt Striker on ECW is there? I mean, who is lower than Striker? Miz? I can't think of many more.

Punk REALLY must have fucked people off. Orton did the same, but the difference was that he had his daddy and an established name behind him. Punk waltzes in to the WWE's Z-show, starts dating a Diva and becomes one himself. I look forward to Mr Straight Edge in a Extreme Chocolate Sauce Bowl Evening Gown match with Pat Patterson any day soon.

I think WX was going more for the "assuming he had a push in the first place" bent.

I mean, I suppose you can call beating up jobbers a push, but...

Of course. It's PUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUNK!

I bet you someone's described it as bigger than Rock or Austin's pops.

I think you all finally have an argument. While I personally think this is the begginings of a loosing streak angle, you'll get no argument from me. At least now you have some sort of foundation to your claims.

I remember seeing someone mention in the Survior Series thread (I think) that Punk would probably get buried after out popping DX.

I doubted that, but then as time went on things started pileing up. I made this thread because it started to look like that's what they were doing. And then shortly after you keep hearing stuff about Punk having heat on him for various reasons.

Now I don't know how much of a cocky attitude Punk has, I mean afterall you can have confidence and someone can see it as them being cocky. And in all honesty I could see someone within WWE see Punk as being some cocky prick in all reality he is just confident in his abilities. But since we have no solid proof of him being or not being a cocky asshole backstage, we can't say for sure.

Although I do love that they won't release him because they fear he'll become a huge star in TNA. I mean if he'd become a star there then don't you think he could be a star in WWE and that they'd want to market him as such?

But that would be too logical for WWE's brain(less)trust.

Well it's much easier to a star in TNA than it is in the WWE...just sayin'.

But since TNA isn't near WWE's level, why should E care if Punk becomes a star in a smaller promotion??

This isn't 1997 and TNA isn't WCW.

Until I see him falling in love with a mop or tag teaming with Snitsky I'm going to assume he isn't getting buried. I think the fact is most people are pretty worried about WWE yet again failing to capitalize on an obviously talented wrestler like CM Punk - especially when they are in such dire straights like now.

So any bit of evidence that could support this concern is seen as certain fact - including everything which is in the dirt sheets. I just think people are maybe jumping to conclusions.

Well you DO realize that you can be buried without having to be saddled with a stupid gimmick, right?

Predictions on who he'll be jobbing to next?

People backstage probably think straight edge is gay

Marcus Cor Von

Yeah, but it doesn't take much to turn a minor deal into something interesting.

Anyway, in terms of"saw it coming," Like I've said before. Did anyone REALLY think Punk was going to go somewhere in WWE? He's not homegrown, he's not a hoss, he's not a brawler. Come on, we were calling this before he ever debuted. We were calling this before the deaf dumb and blind gimmick, and we were calling this about 3 seconds after the ink was wet.

So yeah. A lot of people saw this coming. Basically, anyone with a brain.

Just saying. If WWE booked based on pops or fan reaction, it'd all be about Van Dam or someone instead of Cena.

The only sensible thing to come out of the locker room.

Not home grown? Who in the WWE is if he isn't?

I seriously never thought he was going to be WWE Champ or anything, but I always thought he would be a US/IC Title fixture.

You know, the guy that could always put on a good show when given the chance but never gets the ball just because of where he came from and the fact that he's not 6'10" 315lbs.

JOHN CEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

BATISSSSTTTAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

LASSSSHHHLLEEEEYYYY

KHALLLLIII

And CM Punk isn't like them how?

Where has he been? Three months in TNA hardly counts...

ROH

John Cena was huge in UPW, so he clearly is UPW home grown talent.

In order for one to be homegrown, he can't make his name any other place except WWE.

Punk already made a name for himself in ROH and to a lesser extent in IWA-MS.

Because the average wrewstling fan has heard of that comapny and all.

But see UPW was somewhat of a WWE partner back then.

Really? Huh, news to me.

I concede then.

We're not talking about fans.

WWE has always been known to prefer pushing guys that they essentially created.

They didn't create CM Punk's character.

They created guys like Cena, Batista, Triple H, etc.

Punk shouldn't have gotten a bigger pop then DX

Did WWE create punks image like the babyface wigger?

I think it's finlay, I remember his name coming up in a Punk related post. Remember triple h putting Punk over before survivor series?

Everyone seems to be forgetting that making out with his girlfriend wasn't the only thing he did.

Arn Anderson did attempt to give him advice and he shrugged him off. Thinking you're better than listening to a wrestling legend seems quite arrogant to me.

LIES!

Did he? Well, Mr. Punk, that wasn't wise...

And Punk jobs to Matt Striker via a roll up with the ropes. We are witnessing the Tazz-in-i-zation of Mr. Punk.

Well what kind of a "shrug off" was it?

Once again overreaction can come into play.

Punk could've stood there and listened to him went "Okay" and walked away. Arn could take that as "Oh he didn't appreciate what I was saying." I mean like it's been said before, no one here knows to what extent things went down. WWE could be holding Punk under a microscope so everything he does or says could be blown out of proportion.

I mean would you really be surprised if WWE did that?

About as surprised as I would be if Punk was found fucking a headless corpse in the ass, and his fanbase urged me to give him the "benefit of the doubt."

"He was so awesome that she died from orgasm! And the head just seemed to pop off."

:rofl: OMG. That was awesome.

I still say relax about CM Punk. Yes its more fuel on the fire but I watched it and was suprised, but it didn't seem to bad. It was clearly a cheap victory and CM Punk will pick up a beatdown on him soon.

Didn't Jericho lose cleanly to Chyna? That didn't kill any heat. There's plenty of examples of guys with heat early in their time with WWE who have LOST AN OCCASIONAL MATCH and still been fine. If he's as popular and entertaining as you all maintain, he will be fine.

Now if hes squashed thats another thing....but it hasn't happened, yet.

Oh and btw, if Punk wants to really get over, he needs to pick up a microphone and let the world know who he is.

"He is straight-edge, he is all about competition, he is C...M...Punk."

I think he's about as established on the mic has WWE wants him to be.

I think hes just about as over as he ever will be, this guy would be a solid IC champion, but get ready for dissapointment if you think this guys gonna break into the main event. I like him, I'm just saying.
And as for the people who've said they see him as "a mainstream star", well I don't even wanna begin with that but, no. Not happening. Whats mainstream about a straight edge guy who looks like he should be operating the tilt a whirl.

I hope CM Punk continues to get over and makes a name for himself on the midcard, but I can't see this guy getting anymore over than Xpac or Road Dogg circa 1999 (not an insult, they were phenomenal back then), unless he goes through some drastic changes or Vince takes a shine to him.

Oh, it's still too early, but at least now they have something that actually constitutes the crying. You know, a pattern. And it's still not really much, but it's more than nothing, and nothing's what they had going for them prior.

It's because they know he's not going to win the title at Wrestlemania and dominate for 2 years like they all want. So since the inevitable dissapointment is on its way, why not blame WWE for "intentionally preventing" it.

Actually, I sometimes wonder if wrestling fans tend to bank on these guys so they'll have a reason to bitch. I mean, I don't know why anyone would actually be delusional enough to think Punk is going anywhere, pop or no pop.

And by the way...

;)

Though I agree with your unrealistic expectations. But seriously.

Exactly, while he is very talented, he is not the kind of guy that the WWE pushes to the top. He does not have the look that they want, it is not fair but thats the way it is.

He has the potential that Xpac and Road Dogg had in late 1998, sorry if that rubs some Punk marks the wrong way. I don't mean it as an insult to punk, he's just not the type of star who will go the distance. He is over with the crowd, and may get more over (just like them) but thats about it.
Survivor Series honestly doesn't impress me. Its a chant.