those guys weren't past their prime, maybe in ring but not as stars. In ring means little in this business and I think you know that.

Seriously tho, I realize what I'm saying to various arguments is getting tangled, and I'll admit, I'm having trouble making my point here so I'll make it really simple.

I hate WCW. I loved WWF. WCW didn't make new stars and failed to push their roster. They relied off of talent that was established and gave them fresh runs, that were inferior to their original. Foley and Austin, and Jericho and company were NOT made be WCW. They flourished in WWF.

I also feel fans, due to current day disenchantment, credit WCW and fault WWF/E for the past, when its not deserved in either department.

Well than if we are talking on a strictly financial stand point, WWE ailed to use Hulk Hogan correctly. It's not a secert that WCW made more money with Hogan than WWE has ever done. And on the other side of the coin, Hogan made more money during his WCW run then he has the rest of his career combined.

Tron, you obviously have a huge chip on your shoulder about WCW. And hell, they wern't great at getting new young guys over...to a World Title worthy position. But if it wern't for WCW bringing in guys like Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, Malenko, and others...we'd never have gotten that kind of entertainment. Because look at who WWE was hiring at the time. Big, muscle men. Outside of HBK and the Harts, it was all guys who were huge. And let's not go overboard with WWE used Austin wonderfully. He floundered for YEARS in WWE. They knew he had talent, they had no clue how to use it though. Then they tried to make him a bad guy, it turned out they accidently made him the biggest babyface of all time, and boom. Suddenly WWE is a bunch of geniuses for knowing how to use Austin.

And let's not forget now, WCW gave Austin Tag Title runs, and a run with the US Gold. WWE gave him...the Million Dollar Belt for the first few years... not exactly flourishing him there.

Quit trying to make WCW as this place were people went to die and WWE this place were the young and restless were always rewarded. It's jaded and so full of bias it makes almost anything you say sound tainted.

This was more my point, just stated a lot better.

A lot of guys, like you mentioned Luger, only were pushed in WWE because of success or potential for it in WCW. Luger, Scott Hall, Nash, Marc Mero, The Steiner Brothers, Ric Flair, etc. were cases of that as well.

Arguably, most wrestlers that was past their prime and went to WCW for the checks [which is a whole 'nother story, because that's why everyone's here] were still money makers. Hogan, Hall & Nash, Savage, Hart, etc. prove that.

Also, I'm not saying what I'm saying about WWF/WWE based on today's product. IMO, WWF and WWE should be rated seperately really. They're almost two completely different things, yet so much alike at the same time.

I grew up on all the promotions evenly. I used numerous tv's to tape shows that were on at the same time so I could see everything. I had relatives that stayed up early mornings to tape shows that aired then, and have thousands of tapes. All of the promotions entertained me, without a doubt. WWF, WCW, ECW and other programming as well. Just to me, not forcing it on anyone else, WCW was the organization who did it best.

Hogan was a huge money maker for them, but he had clearly been ridding the succes fromt he federation. Same with Savage on a smaller level.

Nash and Hall I love, so its hard for me to say here. I personally feel they did as well, probably better in WCW. However they were huge stars in WWE before. They were used in the same capacity. Nash was a main eventer. Hall was a huge star, but uppermidcard in WWE. He never advance from that in WCW. nWo and how successful that was is what made their run technically more successful.

As for Hart, he was one of the biggest misuses and wasted investments in wrestling history when he came over to WCW. He clearly was never used even close to what he should have been, and had been in the federation. Thats not Brets fault tho. Its Bischoffs, and Vince's for how he was sent there.

But seriously, I don't deny WCWs good sides. I don't deny the many great talents they had, and many great things they did. I also don't deny that they had talent there that would go on to greatness. But I just feel they had major failings as a promotion. Especially when it came to utilizing and pushing talent.

I just think WWF > WCW, by leaps and bounds. At least in the long run, and overall in terms of quality. I suppose its my opinion, and maybe I do have a chip on my shoulder about WCW, but even though its an opinion regarding what promotion was "better", I see it as hard to argue some of these differences.

Just my 2 cents.

:y:

For history, prestige, sentimentality, character development, business acumen, impact on the industry, development of the wrestling business, opportunities given, superstars created, standing in the wrestling business, success, fan loyalty.... I'm going to have to go with the USWA.

Of course not! WWE. In it's prime, nothing could touch it.

Even now, well past it's prime, you'd be hard pressed to find a promotion today with the overall total package WWE boasts in nearly every aspect of the wrestling business.

NeanderCarl uses his noggin. Thats why even though I lock horns with him at times, I respect and like him.

As far as historical impact on the world of wrestling, yeah nothing can touch WWE. But the thread wasn't asking about which was the biggest of made the move waves, it was asking about personal favorite.

Pre-Noah split All Japan Pro Wrestling.

Even though I enjoy the story aspect of wrestling, I enjoy the actual wrestling so much more, that they could cut out storylines all together, and I wouldn't really mind. So naturally I prefer the Japanese product more as it is.

Classic All Japan is imo the greatest period of wrestling ever. Every match on the higher part of the card had such an epic feel to it, be it singles, tag, or 6man contests. I have yet to see any six man tag contests even come close to the quality of the ones in All Japan. The singles matches ere absolute wars. The "Super Generation" of Misiwa, Kobashi, Kawada, and Taue, were way ahead of their time. Doing stuff we didn't see in America til the very late 90's.

Even the old school stuff from the 70's and 60's as amazing. Harley Race, the Funks, Jack Brisco, And the Destroyer had some classic match ups in All Japan. Also, if you are a fan of old school wrestling, do your self a favor and watch some Destroyer matches. The guy is amazing.

Some people don't understand the japanese style of wrestling, which is fine. It's not for everyone. But if you are a fan, I don't see how you could possibly argue that All Japan wasn't at one point the pinnacle of wrestling in Japan

WWF 80's-early 90's is my favorite promotion ever, late era WWF and WWE are a different promotion. Nothing beats childhood nostalgia.

Please refraine from using that word. Smarks ARE marks. A bunch of marks got together andecided that they didn't like being called marks so they made up this faggot ass word. You cant pick what people call, you're either a mark or a smart. And if you aint in the biz, you're a mark.

Go ahead and try to dispute that. You'll be wrong.

And if you are in the biz, you're a mark too.

If you're not, then you're not really here for the biz.

Everyone who got into wrestling because of the interest in it, not the dollar signs, is most definitely a mark for someone. This continues throughout your entire career. If it stops, then you're not having fun anymore.

For the others, they're mainly marks for themselves - so they'd still count.

There is a world of differance to the man who works in an industry, and even the biggest fan of that industry. While people in the business were 99 times out of 100 originally a mark, it's a completely different world than if you are just a fan. Smarks are simply marks who all came together, decided "they didn't just like the good guys and hate the bad guys because..." whatever reason, and the moment you cross that line people feel they deserve a special title to their enjoyment of a product.

Trekies don't have levels of importance. Marks don't have levels of importance. It's the way superfandom works. It's a lot more than your average joe, but at the end of the day you're still just a fan...

Yep :y:

First of all on Savage:

Greatest WWF/E moments for me were
1. His match against "The Dragon" at WM3
2. His winning 4 straight matches at WM4 to win the WWF title.
3. His feuds with Hogan, Flair, & Jake Roberts.

Greatest WCW moments:
1. Had to be his feud with DDP.

Like i say, the name "Stone Cold" may have been born in WWE, but the attitude of "Stone Cold" was born in ECW. Jericho, on the other hand, may have been more successful in WWE because he became WWE champ, but no offense to all the WWE Jericho fans, WCW Jericho was a hell lot more entertaining. Same thing with Rey Mysterio, winning the World title "which by the way is a fucking joke considering its the ole' WCW belt" but his matches against Malenko, Jericho, Guerrero, etc. in WCW were 10x better. Benoit, hmmmm sorry but no WWE Benoit feud even, and i mean even remotely comes close to his feud with "The Taskmaster" in WCW.

okay then, take smark out of my paragraph. Does it change what I was saying? This side argument really has no bearing on the argument. It's just a word that I used because it happens to be in my vocabulary I never thought into it. I don't claim to be an industry insider or a superior fan. I just used it to refer to the IWC, since I was talking about their liking for the quality of matches and factors thats not really a the main concern of most casual fans or the industry catering to them.

dude, I've watched Jericho all along. He's been just as entertaining all along. I have a hard time stomaching WCW marks who come in here and try to talk about it like it was a real fucking promotion and not just Ted Turners bully stepchild who shit his pants and got sent home crying.

I also have no problem giving ECW credit for the talent they discovered and allowed to advance their craft. You're right about Stone Cold. But thats something he did, difference was that ECW and WWE were the two companies that allowed him to do it and had a push and tv time to go along with it.

I have a hard time stomaching anti-WCW marks who don't know what they're talking about. WCW was a real promotion. For years WCW was THE dominate promotion. Did WCW spend a lot of money to secure countless talent to prevent them from going anywhere? Yeah, but let's be real, it also was earning 300 million dollars a year. It had one of the hottest angles of all time. It brought quick/light wrestling to the mass American audiance. WCW was the first promotion that brought wrestling to the main stream for anyone over the age of 10. Tell me one other promotion in history who was so massively popular that people would throw parties themed around one of their stables.

WCW was a real promotion. Jericho was equally good, if not slightly better, in WCW. The first of those was a fact, the second was opinion.

WCW.

Both have/had the strong/weak points, but I always like WCW, and I love going through my WCW tapes and remembering it all.

WSX