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On the upside, it's interesting where we get support from. Here's feminist Christina Sommers:
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I don't consider myself a "gamer" but someone who has played games my whole life, just as I have watched films and listened to music my whole life. I don't take criticism of games personally, in other words, by someone who takes the time to at least analyse them. |
I have ever once seen any GamerGate person satisfactorily explain how a personal hissy fit from a journalist about an independent games developer has really led to a campaign about journalistic ethics. Taking your cue from a total fuckwit like Adam Baldwin isn't a good start.
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I still love that these fags think game journalism is...journalism. It's fags reviewing games. It's opinions at its core.
Loser fag video gamers trying to justify their actions and pretend they have anything worth living for. |
The fact that this five guys burgers and fries name or topic was ever even involved shows this is just a sophomoric farce. People living in a false world.
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I'm probably in the small minority with this, but the way I view reviews is that they are entirely subjective. A review, be it of a movie, book, album, or game, is by definition subjective. You are giving YOUR OPINION on how good a piece of work is. Sure, you have the context of its contemporaries to compare it to, but really what a review is is one person's voice on why they did or didn't like the game. The whole argument against the Bayonetta 2 review, for example, is "why are you putting your personal thoughts about sexism into the review?" My counter to that is, why WOULDN'T you? I had this discussion with a friend the other day. I could see the issue if said reviewer was inconsistent in their review process. If, say, someone was very close-to-the-vest with their reviews normally and only commented on objective benchmarks as often as possible, then suddenly went up on their soapbox to decry how the game is sexist and lowered the score because of that, I could see people being annoyed at bad "journalism" (opinion piece, remember) because of the inconsistency in the review process. Now, I also understand that most people are fucking morons and treat reviews as gospel, and if a site like IGN gives a game a 7/10 as opposed to a 9.5/10 that can have a real, legitimate effect on the number of sales that game makes. That's unavoidable so long as moronic consumers are willing to let someone else tell them what games to play. The problem lies in that people need to take reviews less seriously and focus less on some stupid arbitrary number and read the content of the review to understand why the reviewer came to that conclusion, then decide at that point if they agree and then if they choose to buy the game as a result. Anyway whatever, tangential post. |
My favourite film reviewer, Mark Kermode, always talks about problematic themes in films like misogyny, poor portrayal of females or foreigners or other non-white North American male characters, exploitative use of animals etc. where these are present in films. I appreciate hearing about it, that's why I listen to him. These are also problems in films and TV and it's commonly pointed out by critics. Games should be no different. Flagging up an ogling, over-sexualised view of a female protagonist in a game is no less a valid criticism than talking about the gameplay. This is an example of "gamers" needing to grow up.
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Adobe clarified allegations of them supporting Gamergate and stated the removal of their ads from Gawker was because of a different reason instead. Originally they wanted nothing to do with either side but felt being silent was hurting them more in the end.
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No it isn't. Sexism is discrimination or prejudice based on gender. What Anita Sarkeesian is doing is using twitter to offer a cultural explanation for why men commit more mass shootings and probably trolling gamer nerds who trip on her every word while she's at it. She may very well be incorrect in that reasoning, but she's not being sexist.
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http://image.basekit.com/bkpam293229_1366209889001.jpeg Hahaha. |
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http://i.imgur.com/d3UOq.gif |
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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-06nLEE4-Ni...27806950_n.jpg |
http://www.wrestlenewz.com/wrestling...orld-Title.jpg
I beg to differ Triple Reap, get your ass back in the ring and explain yourself!! Nobody is going to cut a promo on ECG and easily get away with it. Last week on TPWW I RKO'ed your post to the ground. I deserve a shot at the next KOTF. I'm not going to get upstaged again, no way shitstain. I am Heisenberg, I am Borderline Jesus |
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Winner Winner Chicken Dinner.
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http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/im...543&h=361&q=75 |
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For instance, why are the main people the Gamergaters going after are the developers, and not the journalists? |
Who are the 'main people'?
It's been gaming press companies mostly. |
Like, what would 'going after' even mean in regard to Quinn, Fish, and Wu? For what? They certainly come up often but what they do isn't important in the bigger scheme of things.
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You are wrong ECG, it doesn't matter if ghetto mentality, or thug mentality or whatever was plugged in there.
Saying "It's always *this group of people* that does *this bad thing*" is prejudicial. It doesn't matter what hypothesis she put there afterwards. |
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The word "always" makes it sexist though, if she replaced "always" with "emotionally troubled" it would have made it better.
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what
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Also why is she trying to equate sexism to why shootings occur? Isn't it usually just being bullied or some sort of isolation or mental illness? Seems like she's just grasping at straws because she wants to make some grand point that falls way short.
It's a two-way street for parenting. If parenting has anything to do with it. Trying to blame it all on the men is sexist. Just because males commit the violence doesn't mean sexism has anything to do with it. She's nothing more than another person blaming "rock music" or "rap lyrics." A Full of shit, opportunistic, liar. |
she is somebody's daughter and until you've walked a mile in her heels I suggest laying off the threats to her life
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This thread is becoming fantastically derailed with all sorts of ridiculousness.
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"Always" only makes it sexist if you're trying to make a boring semantic argument about whether "always" means 100% of the time vs 99% of the time. Either way her argument is true that the vast majority of mass shootings are carried out by males and if you start quibbling it with exceptions, you're only really strengthening her argument by highlighting the massive gender discrepancy. |
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She clearly states she feels sexist ideas are behind it, makes no mention of games, yet you say here she is not blaming sexism and is blaming games. |
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Do you think it is more or less problematic to stigmatise mental health with acts of mass violence than to blame it on sexism? I personally feel that writing off mass shootings as down to spontaneous acts of insanity is much less helpful, stigmatises people with mental health problems and is a complete abdication of social responsibility. Furthermore, acts of violence against others and oneself, even in the context of mental health problems, are strongly socially influenced anyway. |
Also, do any of you realise that the only reason anyone even knows Anita Sarkeesian's name is because of the virulent response from gamers to her youtube videos? Why are gamers so insecure?
Many of the things she points out about games are an embarrassment to normal adult males who play games. |
I like her videos although I don't agree with everything she says. Wife showed me her before all of this blew up.
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How many journalists have been doxed for reasons other than bitching about Gamergate? Show me the big action you guys have planned against Game Informer, the video game review magazine run by a video game store. Discuss a conflict of interest in video game journalism, besides Dorito-Gate, that has really eaten at you. |
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Because ideas of "toxic masculinity" are often portrayed in video games and movies.......
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And?
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.................and she said "toxic masculinity"........
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What is your point?
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You seem to be really caught on the semantics of most things in this argument.
Identifying something as "toxicly masculine" != "all masculine behaviour is toxic" |
I'm not saying it does, RDD.
ECG answer these things for me Where do you see ideas of toxic masculinity? Can you see ideas of toxic masculinity in video games? Recently has Anitas youtube channel been primarily about video games? |
http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress...thics-jaws.png
Just wanted to point out I found this on a google search, and liked it. Similarly, I found the Simpson one on my Tumblr page. I had no hand in creating it. Wish I did though, it's kind of spot on. |
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But yes there are plenty of problematic themes regarding gender and masculinity in games, just as there are on TV, in films, in music, in advertising, in fashion, in sport, in factual media. Sarkeesian's youtube channel has been about these themes in games, as it has been about television, music etc. Here-in lies the problem: you cannot articulate your own argument yet you expect me to articulate it for you. You said: Quote:
Do you understand how logic works? Can you comprehend sentences written in fairly basic English? If you can, you need to explain how you have arrived at the conclusion that Sarkeesian has stated that games cause men to want to act out violence from games in real life. |
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> ANITA TALKS ABOUT VIDEO GAMES IN HER CHANNEL YOU WOULD KNOW THAT IF YOU ACTUALLY WATCHED HER VIDEOS. ANITA TALKS ABOUT VIDEO GAMES IN HER TWITTER, READ HER TWEETS. THE MAJORITY OF THE STUFF THAT COMES OUT OF HER MOUTH IS ABOUT VIDEO GAMES.
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LOOUUUUUUD NOISES!
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Except where she explicitly does.
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If your point is that men are more violent in school shootings and toxic masculinity exists, well, guess what? Since you're a guy yourself, you should just cut off your dick and be a woman so that you won't be included in that demographic then as a toxic masculine guy? Makes sense to you, you fucking idiot? |
that makes absolutely no sense.
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Basically, if you're born with a penis, you already have an invisible toxic masculinity inside you.. So, yeah, it's like Anita's shaming men for being masculine in their behavior.
The solution then is you just either cut off your dick and change sex or you might as well be born with a vagina insread... |
no, i understood what you said. it still makes absolutely no sense.
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That's quite a leap in logic there.
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But if it makes you feel any better, paid for reviews are in fact something GG dudes have touched on, including unearthing letters for Shadows of Morder's publisher asking YouTubers to present their game favorably under bane of DMCAs. These things will be approached, I imagine, but priorities priorities. Quote:
- Game journalist don't seem to know what they're talking about anymore. Many previews and reviews use increasingly vague language and simple observations discussing games. - On top of this, they circumvent their decreasing focus on gameplay by speaking more about shit besides the point of the game. While this isn't a GG thing per se - I find these 'game critics' problematic only because they're slowly replacing actual game inspection. - These journalists then get access to preview events (E3, TGS, etc) while YouTubers and smaller sites/blogs who know a thing or two wait to break press releases after the fact. - Deeper into some preview events; publishers treating journalists like kings and leaning their play experience (ref: 'Vertical Slice', I think it's called). - A cultural gulf between how IGN and Game Informer explores Western games versus Eastern games. - Flimsy game analysis when playing games that are similar to other competitors. Back in the day an article would be free to mention Rock Band in a Guitar Hero article and vice versa - but that has slowed to a very noticeable point. Why do you think that is? - Editors placing just any writer on any game like their personal preferences mean dick. Kotaku's Patricia Hernandez covered Advanced Warfare. Comedy of the year. - Game journalists not educating themselves on how to talk to Japanese developers. Often the culture distinction leads to unintentional laughs, other times it's awkward, and a few times it's borderline rude. - Turning back to journalists not knowing a damn thing anymore; many preview videos (>>>IGN<<<) seem to go out of their way to get people who just barely care about the game they're covering. IGN's a strange beast here because they do have people who know their shit. IGN has an unusually large fighting game base within their writer's, for instance. I suppose they could vet future writers on game preference to have a varied experience base but I won't hold my breath. - More but I forget right now. Now I've heard before this false choice of game sites who shill games versus sites who shill their political agendas, but I believe there's degrees. They can both exist, with happy mediums filling the mainstream void. Lots of sites I never visited before stepped up, but they have some ways to go before they can get the kind of access the chief offenders can get. I would suggest publishers remove the middle man altogether and provide preview builds and demos to the public each time they do for journalists. This would lessen the public worship of game writers' opinions and build a more informed consumer base all at once. Publishers can also go Nintendo's 'Direct' route, which some companies are already doing. These are basically video power points, but the longer, in-depth nature is far better than 2min CGI trailers. Anyway yeah, that's my beef with game journalists - if you meant me personally. |
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But thank you on answering my questions. At least you are a bit more intellectually honest than many of the folks who attach themselves to your cause. However, when Ms. Sarkeesan starts throwing out frivolous lawsuit after frivolous lawsuit attacking games, then talk to me about how she's Jack Thompson. |
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BO-lieve in GamerGate. |
Before I go point by point; I wanna clarify that those issues I posted were my personal beef with games journalism, rather than the goals of GamerGate (which was posted on the second page or so). You wrote a few times that where you agreed on a point that GG should turn their attention to it, and I would of course like that. There are places where GG and my own criticisms cross paths, I'll try to note these points. Just wanted to make sure these points were my own issues with the industry over the years.
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Now her character and mannerisms are certainly sexual, but in true hack-n-slash fashion it's over the top as to be comical. She 'vogues' ffs. If that's still a point against her we then have to discuss her creator Kamiya, who's an excellent game designer (DMC1, Viewtiful Joe, Wonderful 101, Okami). Perhaps somebody else could have made Bayonetta and have her less hyper sexual, but then we wouldn't have the best hack-n-slash game ever (opinion mine). Or rather, would you want Kamiya to adjust his creative freedom? I'll choose his creative freedom and game design philosophy every time. Package deal, as it is with any entertainment medium. Quote:
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I mean, how many other movements could we dismiss because their concerns are particular? "Throat cancer charity? Why not all cancer?" GG's not out to save journalism of every field. This probably isn't your intention, but having run into this criticism before it's basically 'it's just games'. I mean, I don't get why people are actually making a case that gamers shouldn't care that much about games journalism. Have a go at demanding why sports fans care about sports controversies and politics. Quote:
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But let's have fun with that image; GamerGate working to oust all manner of journalistic fuckery. Would the narrative then be a bunch of basement boys with delusions of grandeur throwing rocks at giants? It's an uphill battle as it is in the public eye getting talked down to by Polygon. Quote:
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Bhahahaha. I love Colbert saying Feminazis coming to rip off gamer balls.. Thank you! |
Anita wouldn't be the person I'd ask about the journalism/feminist academia angle as she's not a part of DIGRA (though I believe she is with Silver String Media). Though it was interesting that that was the only time she flustered in an otherwise bright eyed interview. This is also the first time any mainstream setting asked about that, so kudos to... Steven Colbert (yet again showing more clout than mainstream news).
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Yes, Anonymous supports Gamers! We're legion. Never forgive. Never forget. |
And in this moment you just aligned with a terrorist organization. well done people will be respecting you soon enough.
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Corporate shitheads can be a terrorist organization too. Erin Pizzey herself even said feminists movement are also terror groups. Go figure.
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Silly kids. |
good grief
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In contrast to all the coherent arguments that Kalyx makes (even though I don't agree with a lot of them), Raven Reaper goes and shows why this movement will never be taken seriously.
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Neither will the stupid journalists who really love to disenfranchise every game with their shitty ass personal agendas.
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I don't see this storyline going anywhere, what are they going to do to counter anything, play more video games?
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Then again, after reading your other multiple replies as well as actually believing Anonymous gives two shits, I can tell you are very serious. |
I always knew video games and video game reviews were serious business.
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Let's not forget the ethics Ruien, don't lose track of the main point!!! :|
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And even if they wanna wail, whine, moan and complain all they want of how they enjoy games that are considered anti-SJW feminism, sexism or whatever, NOTHING will keep us down.. As Capt. Kirrahe from Mass effect would say, "WE WILL HOLD THE LINE!!" |
I can just see how this goes down. Lady A, "If I fuck you you have to write a serious businesses review for me game" and Guy A "Hell ya, a game review for you on my cock is worth it but since this is a game review and it's serious business you need to swallow" and then Lady A "Done deal."
2 months lady Nerd A"What the fuck! This game had a awesome review but it is complete shit!" And Nerd B "I am going to murder you Lady A for using your pussy to get you money!" With Nerd C "Let's not forget about the ethics here." |
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who needs game reviews when everything has a beta/alpha/supersmash invite system in place?
We need to think about all the starving people on the streets, come on people |
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The real shitter here is the way you and others react make the gaming community look like shitheads. They can all have their opinion, as their issues are actual issues. However, I chose to read the content and move along. People reacting in trollish ways will not get either side anything, nothing at all. If you truly want to make a difference, as you say you are passionate, stop being such a child about things and actually build a debate/argument to counter the valid points that are being raised. That is what will help gain traction, not "SHUT HER THE FUCK UP WITH DUCT TAPE". |
I still kinda just view this whole mess in the same light as the type of people who bitch about Fox News (or CNN, or whatever) being terrible then making no effort to find better alternative news sources to get proper coverage. If Polygon or Kotaku or IGN or whatever are so bad, why continue to patronize their sites and give them hits? Why not find a blogger who is similar-minded to you and read their reviews?
For example, I don't necessarily agree with a lot of his rationale but I really enjoy reading Tom Chick's reviews of games. He gets a lot of flak because MetaCritic includes his scores (which are on a subjective 5-star system) into their aggregate, but I find his reviews perfectly lay out his thoughts and feelings on the games. For example, he gave The Last of Us 3 out of 5 stars, citing its awful gameplay but praising the storytelling and character elements of the game. I loved TLoU but totally understand his viewpoint and can respect his opinion. Yet, people see a "60%" score and lose their goddamn minds because NUMBERS!!!!! without reading the review. It's no different from all the stupid fanboys on IGN who go apeshit if the PS3 version of a game gets 8.4 while the 360 version gets an 8.5. At the end of the day it's a goddamn stupid number, when in essence the two reviews are probably almost identical. This kind of thing happens all the time. I'm guilty of it too kinda. If I'm looking at a list of reviews for a game that is universally getting 8.5/10 or 9/10 ratings and there's an outlier that shows 5/10 or 6/10, obviously you're more drawn to that review. A lot of times it's just crappy clickbait from some hack, but I tend to read those reviews more thoroughly than one that rates a game 9/10 and includes a few bullet points of things they liked about the game when it's clear they only put maybe 8 hours into it. As per usual I'm going way off on tangents BUTTTTTTT my overall message is it should be on smarter consumers to interpret the information and opinions that are presented to them. I still can't wrap my brain around how someone is so personally slighted or affronted by a game being favorably reviewed unjustly by sites that "they" (the supposed "TRUE GAMERS") obviously hold very little regard for. It's like getting pissed off that a shitty movie won the Best Picture Oscar then making a shitload of tweets stating how much you think the Oscars are bullshit. Why does it bother you so much? Fucking hipsters. I get the larger implications and slippery slope effect of being apathetic towards the "larger" review sites, but going on some crusade for journalistic integrity seems awfully misguided when the best ammunition these clowns have is harassing those who they don't agree with. whatever I need another damn coffee |
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Quite the perfect parallel, really (Re: RDD)
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Ryan Clark gave it an 8.6 you fucking misogynist
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ECG, I hate that you are in this thread in this forum. Seems so odd. God, I hate it. Have you ever been in the video game forum before? This is so weird. What the fuck. I'm getting the hell out of here.
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It's like you just smelled an argument in the air and followed the scent.
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I don't really disagree with most of what you are saying. I just hate that you're here. It is throwing off the balance of the forum. Like, it's stressing me out.
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