Yeah, but wanking the indy audience is fucking stupid. They're trying to become a viable national - and I assume international - audience. When you turn it on and the first thing you see is some fucking weeny in a mask, it's a turn-off. I can tell you it was for me because the first thing I thought was how fucking bush league he looked.

Fan did a good job answering the question about Ventura and Lawler. And even then, I'm watching AEW as an alternative to the hokey WWE bullshit.

I understand why fans of Ex may not mind, and he's a good commentator too. But part of the problem is what Indy fans want and like aren't what a national or international audience gives a shit about (nor is what WWE is doing).

I think there's so much strength in having him play it straight with his appearance. It'd also just be far less goofy. I dunno, there isn't even any context for it. We're just supposed to be like "OH IT'S WRESTLING SO THIS GUY HAS A MASK."

I really don’t care.

It was a good show. I’m really ready for them to get on weekly TV. My interest on All Out is growing. Hopefully some of these undercard indy guys will learn to quit playing things so over the top.

I’m all for it if indy wrestling fans who have followed Excalibur’s career is as far as they want their appeal to go.

I never heard of Excalibur until he was announced as an announcer for AEW. He looks like a fucking dink with a mask on while his ass is wearing an AEW blazer. He is a good announcer. He and JR should just be a 2 man booth.

I mean yeah this seems like the correct position to take. It’s not a big deal. He seems pretty good at his job. Let a brother work.

Out of all the things to bitch about, people are really going to bitch about a commentator wearing a mask even though he wore a mask when he was active? Come on.

Just finished the show, couldn't watch yesterday as I was at a NASCAR race. Good show again and I'm really looking forward to going to All Out.

I don't understand Evil Uno from the Dark Order. He's so out of shape an not menacing. I just need to understand this gimmick better because I can tell these guys can work really well but like... what's the story with why they are this way? Why does it come off so "bath house" with all the other shirtless twinks in masks?

I want to take back some criticism of Luchasaurus ... I mean he's lucha so he's gonna do lucha and not be a standard big man. I'll give it a chance.

The mask is whatever. I agree he looks like a big dink. He's known to a niche audience, so if that's what they're shooting for, great. But he's not playing a gimmick. He's playing it straight. And he looks ridiculous. He's not Rey Mysterio. It doesn't take me outta the product itself but I can see people tuning in and thinking it looks bush league.

Who are these people we’re worried about? Who are these people tuning into a wrestling show and turning it off because the announcer has a mask?

I watched this today, had a couple gripes, one was in this match, Luchasaurus is standing watching Jungle Boy go for a pin and basically just ignored the dark order guy sneaking right past him to break up the pin.

Another compliant/gripe and I dont usually get too upset over psychology issues but Hangman Page is fucking selling his knee like its 1/2 inch from being permanently messed up and Kip Sabian is in there doing fucking rest holds working his shoulder. I didnt have any opinion of Sabian prior but all I see now is a fucking moron who cant smell the proverbial blood in the water. Then Page comes out 1 hour later to attack jericho and hes not even selling the knee.

My only other gripe was Cima doing about 20 meteoras, which I guess isnt such a big deal but it seemed like it was the only move he knew how to do and it wasnt fucking working. Match itself was overall pretty good though.

I feel like Im channeling Jim Cornette here but still.

Which announcer was it that blew the finish of SCU vs Luchas? They called the package piledriver a move a head of it actually happening. Seemed obvious cause they apologized.

It was Excalibur but it wasn't a blown call. He just called a Canadian Destroyer a Package Piledriver and then soon after someone did the package piledriver so he looked kinda dumb for a moment. But he didn't give anything away.

I'd imagine they're supposed to be new viewers and the market WWE has lost. The cena kids who grew up and left. Like I said, I personally don't care one way or the other, but it is goofy.

Nah I think those are balance criticisms. I agree strongly about Page no selling the knee during the melee later in the show, that was lame. I didn't mind the Meteora's but I was annoyed by hearing that word like 20 times.

I do think that Jr. needs to ask Excalibur about his mask at some point during AEW's first TV...

Just have The Bucks take the mask from Rey Fenix in a beat down. He covers up and runs away so no harm to him. When the segment is over, JR asks Excalibur about the importance of a mask in Lucha Libre and he goes on about that and why it's so important that he still wears his mask to this day even in retirement. Boom, problem solved.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Tony was inspired by South Park. Can’t wait until he kills Kenny. <a href="https://t.co/isSJ7nN1zR">pic.twitter.com/isSJ7nN1zR</a></p>&mdash; VCR Vermin (@VcrWrestling) <a href="https://twitter.com/VcrWrestling/status/1150264815321047040?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 14, 2019</a></blockquote>
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there was a you killed kenny chant which the fans probably failed to think Cima cant understand it

that'll be a running chant

Similar. I mean, I get the gripe, but it doesn't bother me so much. If Steve Corino could put on a mask just to pretend he was someone else and continue appearing in the booth on ROH TV since he was supposed to be "gone" is perfectly fine, why can't a guy go under his mask with his ring name just be a guy with his mask and ring name? Lawler sat at a table for decades in full ring gear with a gimmick crown when it made no earthly sense to do so.

My problem with it is he should go all out (pun not intentional). Start buying "flashy" suits and matching masks. If you're going to do it, do it big.

Excalibur is a no name Indy schmuck who will be more famous for being an AEW Announcer than anything he ever did as a wrestler. Comparing Lawler to him is apples and oranges. Jerry Lawler was a national known superstar wrestler.

For a new fan like myself, I see this bozo who I’ve never heard of and supposed to take him serious. I do agree an actual backstory with him or going all-in and getting glittery suits that go with the mask might help. I can’t help but roll my eyes right now every time they cut to the announcers and see this:

https://i.ibb.co/SdqKjbf/ECFA0909-84...1516-B1-BB.jpg

I’m tired of rolling my eyes watching wrestling. That’s why I don’t watch as much as I used to and I’m wanting to get into AEW.

fixed.

marvez looks like he should be the one with a mask.

Excalibur is a good announcer and will only get better with time being with JR. Marvez can fuck off. Let him run the website or the official AEW Podcast or something.

Lawler was also playing a gimmick. He wasn't being straight or providing hard analyses and calling moves. He was playing an antagonist to both Vince and JR. Excalibur isn't playing a gimmick. He's playing it completely straight. Lawler isn't a comparison.

Dunno what the problem is. He looks pretty sharp to me. Like the luchadores who walk around in suits with their masks.

For fuck's sake, people... talk about missing the point.

I wasn't comparing Excalibur as a whole to Lawler as a whole. I wasn't comparing their announcing, or what they did in the ring, or any of that shit.

I said Jerry had been sitting at an announce desk for about twenty years in full wrestling gear and a fake crown and nobody gave one flying fuck. This guy wears a mask and people are flipping the fuck out about it being "unprofessional" or "offputting". I don't ever remember hearing "Ugh, Lawler's not a real monarch, that shit just takes me right out of the show" or "he should wear an actual suit instead of a gimmicked blazer over his singlet".

That specific thing is the same difference, but Jerry gets a pass just because he's Jerry. Ventura was gimmicked out when he was an announcer; feather boas and sunglasses and everything. Macho Man was still in full gear when Vinice planned on keeping him in the booth. If Rey Rey retired from the ring tomorrow and became a commentator for Smackdown, nobody would insist he went back to his Filthy Animals look because he's sitting in a chair. He would still be in his mask. If you have a problem with one but not the other just because one guy is a "nobody" and the other is a legend, I feel like you may be a bit too dense to actually explain how you're being hypocritical about the subject. This is a thing I don't even agree with Cornette on. The mask doesn't hinder his performance on the stick, nor does it really detract from anything for the total few minutes they actually show him on camera.

Like I said, Excalibur should just go all in with the thing. Instead of just wearing the same mask all the time, he can keep the pattern but alter the colors and get matching suits. Plural. It can be his cowboy hat. His crown. His neckbrace with a bowtie.

He looks like a guy who is about to give you an estimate on your muffler repair.

Lawyer & Ventura's meaningful careers in the ring allow them to do that. For awhile, Lawler could always pop up and wrestle. Excalibur will never wrestle for AEW and 99.5% of the wrestling audience will never see one of his Indy matches. If they highlighted his career somehow and gave him some legitimacy besides being a dink in a mask that wrestled in some backyards at some point in time then maybe it wouldn't make me roll my eyes like the fucking Undertaker every time I see him.

But, your'e also the same guy who about had an aneurysm when I pointed out that HHH was a mediocre talent, no mater how much a mind for the business he may have, so pardon me for not agreeing with you on this, either.

it's just bush league and indicative of bigger problems. Honestly, look at that live audience. I hate to just flat-out echo Jim Cornette, but it's not an actual diverse audience. It's pretty much the same people you'd see at a comic con. 18-34 sweaty nerds or hipsters.


Yes, he's a solid commentator and when you hear him speak, he knows what he's doing. BUT, you're seeing the show through his eyes and his vantage point and his presentation is important. Commentating and the presentation of commentators is a vital facet of the product. Need proof? Listen to WWE's commentary team ruin anything that could possibly be any good.

It's not a be-all-end-all type thing. It just sets a tone that this is some goofy fucking bullshit. That's fine that you dudes ARE TOTALLY COOL with his stupid fucking mask. But I'm here to tell you, he looks like a goober and at best it's a tiny nagging negative that detracts from his credibility. If he was still working, then wear the mask all day, every day. Otherwise, take off the mask and change your name in the booth if your wresting identity means that much to you. To me, it's the dreaded "Indy mud show bullshit" to a tee.

He's at best a regional legend. So, it's not like the audience has context, like with Rey Misterio where most people know him.

I mean, that's cool that you don't care. Do you want a cookie? Maybe some new Lio Rush PJs?

I think legit luchadors look great in their masks while wearing suits tbh. But Ex just seems like some backyard gimmick guy. I know he's not, but it's how it comes across, especially with no context other than you guys telling me he's a local legend of legendary proportions.

Tbf you've just described most American wrestling audiences regardless of company. I see the same people at every show.

Even at G1 Supercard. I'm watching whatever match was on and all of a sudden I hear some dude a few rows back "MULTIPLE WRESTLING WEBSITES ARE REPORTING THAT BRET HART WAS ATTACKED". Not saying that wasn't important but it's like, really dude, you're sitting in a great seat at MSG with a New Japan show going on in front of you and you're busy looking up shit on your phone? Enjoy the moment.

But we're not talking about other companies, we're talking about AEW and the potential to branch out to different demos.

Again, if AEW strives to just be like any other indy company and appeal just to those fans then fine. “Well, indy fans know him!” and “But other wrestling audiences are made up of the same people!” are good enough reasons for anything they do.

That’s not exactly a recipe for success if they want this TNT thing to last though. If they wanna be just another indy fed, that’s what they’ll be soon enough.

AEW is ALL ENCLUSIVE everyone is welcome at AEW. So if Excalibur identifies as a luchadore who are we to tell him he's not?

#MaskedLivesMatter

They had a guy with NO LEGS in a battle royal where BOTH FEET MUST TOUCH THE GROUND.

Lol it’s not hypocritical by any means. People aren’t trying to explain the difference between Excalibur and Lawler/Ventura to say “They’re cool so they get to do it but fuck this guy, he doesn’t.” They’re saying it’s fucking silly to compare a commentator making his debut in a company making its debut to guys who have established themselves as known stars carrying over their gimmick to the booth. It’s not just some “he hasn’t earned it.” nonsense. It’s the fact that one had been established for years and years before shifting to commentary so it made sense and the other showed up on day 1 looking ridiculous with no explanation.

Also, was Alex Marvez still there for Fight for the Fallen? I still watch the opening of the Double or Nothing pre-show sometimes because of that amazing awkwardness. It actually distracted from “why is the other commentator wearing a mask?”

Marvez was back at Fight for the Fallen. The Goldenboy guy from Fyter Fest wasn’t bad. AEW needs to just get Mike Tenay.

I'd be fine with just JR and Excalibur. No idea why AEW is following the WWE trend of being so gung-ho about 3-man booths.

If this were WWE, Marvez being remarkably awkward and terrible would be turned into a gimmick.

The mask doesn't bother me but once TV starts I wouldn't be opposed to them doing an angle with Ex and having his mask on line for a match. MJF vs whoever Ex chooses to represent him, maybe Cutler. MJF wins and Ex has to unmasked and reveal his who he really is.

Yeah, my issue is it's "HE HAS A MASK BECAUSE WRESTLING."

Don't get me wrong, I understand excalibur was a big deal in cheesedick-ville, USA but I literally have no idea who the fuck he is, much like other audience members won't.

I will say, where I might be wrong is that people can literally look him on their cellphones as they watch the product. But, some context within the framework of AEW instead of looking it up on Wiki is still a nice touch.

I think you guys are being a bunch of whiny penises about something that does not matter in any way at all, but I suppose reasonable minds can differ.

But I think we can all agree that nothing is as damaging to the credibility and professionalism of AEW as that garbage on Alex Marvez’ chin. Good grief.

My penis is not whiney. I'd say it's a pretty good sport given the punishment it receives daily from my right hand.

Marvez fucking sucks. He's so damn bad.

At least we can all agree on that.

That's cool that you do care. What are you gonna do about it? Cry some more on the internet?

Bitch.

If I remember, AEW had plans for that to not be a long term thing. JR would eventually be moved into a backstage role similar to the one he had in WWE.

They just need him in the booth now for the name recognition and to help train the current team they have.

Although this was before anyone realized how bad Marvez actually is so who knows if that's still the plan.

We did have Tony on the show you know. It could happen.

I'd really like to hear Tony and Jr call an AEW show with Excalibur.

I would love for Schiavone to take over if JR transitions to a backstage role. I think he and Excalibur would make a good team.

Excalibur seems to be really good at calling the moves but I don't know if his storytelling is any good. Schiavone obvs has the edge in that sense and Tony can crank the raw enthusiasm for big moments.

Tony had a meeting set up at Cody’s house presumably to discuss working with AEW. Tony did not show up. His steak was fed to the dog.

That might be the perfect 3 man booth. I still want to see Tony with Cornette in MLW also.

He would be the newest member of Titus Worldwide, and they would script forced awkwardness on top of what's already there.

I would agree with that context part, but I think a problem with that is more of a logistical one. Kinda like that Kenny Omega "losing streak" makes zero sense if you aren't already aware that this stems from his last matches in New Japan, since they sorta-kinda can't acknowledge that but have to leave it up to inferences as to it meaning that. Pretty sure they could expound upon letting more people know he's in a mask because he was in ring talent (was/is? Is he retired, or did he just kinda settle into desk gigs?). Since Excal's matches were places like ROH, it isn't like they can just show film.

At the very least, what will likely happen is short pepperings of relating what is happening in the ring to experience, sort of like Matt Striker (maybe without the beating people in the head with it like Matt was prone to do, though... more subtle, like Nigel does occasionally). "Oh, he wrestled. That makes sense." I don't think people will dwell on that so much once they know that he isn't just some random dude who just showed up off the street in a La Parka mask. JR would be pretty good about leading into something like that.

Let the TV show get here to give them the opportunity to clear that up, though.

Greatest steak in the history of our sport.

I thought that's what it was, too. Wasn't there some concept mentioned about JR essentially being moved to off-camera stuff except for title matches and big-deal main events to give them that extra "oomph"? Aside from that, from that inference, it was supposed to be a two-man booth.

And as easy as it is to call for his head, I seriously hope Marvez can find his footing. It took awhile for Corey Graves to become decent... he was pretty brutal in the initial transition from wrestler to announcer. They obviously see something in Marvez to want him to be "that guy", and maybe they can eventually polish the stink off that turd with work and reps.

Maybe.

Graves has charisma tho. Marvez has zero personality.

Your reason for editing this post is pretty much the greatest thing I've ever seen. I don't want you to think I didn't see it.

Excalibur wearing a mask is frustrating because it’s like the guy walked into his job interview wearing his trackies. Big wrestling names with established gimmicks he is not. I was never confused as to what Jerry Lawler was supposed to be. I still don’t know what the fuck Excalibur is.

Marvez should have a job, but I’m not sure it should be at that booth.