Cuts are a shitty thing to do IMO (except for the morons who are unvaxxed) but not completely unjustified. A lot of those people shouldn't have been signed in the first place because they were hoarded. Now they can go get over elsewhere. IMO it's a good thing for the most part. With guys like Kross and Lee, it'd have been better if the company didn't devalue them before kicking them to the curb. But whatcha gonna do.

And "bad performance" is pretty subjective in wrestling. Vince could fire anyone on any given day in this iteration of WWE given how paltry ratings are for wrestling as a whole.

Izzy’s parent cheering on Lince Dorado’s release. Droford was right all along.

It would be so fucked to get signed for a bunch of years… then released a few weeks later haha. That’s so so bizarre.

WWE contracts can be ripped up at any time with barely any financial repercussion. It's a very one-sided relationship.

lol, Eva Marie is back like 5 minutes. Surprised they released Jax considering who she's related to. Guess that'll be Dwayne telling them to eat a dick when they next want him to appear.

Their contracts aren't worth the paper theyre written on, surprised supposed "independent contractors" have contracts of any type anyway.

And theyre still claiming these are "budget cuts". :rofl:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Don’t worry <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WWEUniverse?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WWEUniverse</a> , I will be back very soon!<br>Aaaaand Stiiiilll the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/undisputed?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#undisputed</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Undefeated?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Undefeated</a> 👑👸 <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Czarina?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Czarina</a> of the Internet!<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Smackdown?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Smackdown</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/wweraw?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#wweraw</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/wwe?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#wwe</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/EvaMarie?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#EvaMarie</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/EvasCzarinas?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#EvasCzarinas</a> <br> <a href="https://twitter.com/WWE?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WWE</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/WWEonFOX?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@WWEonFOX</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/peacockTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@peacockTV</a> <a href="https://t.co/26E5kc7xje">pic.twitter.com/26E5kc7xje</a></p>&mdash; Eva Marie (@natalieevamarie) <a href="https://twitter.com/natalieevamarie/status/1455360554273542147?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That tweet aged well. :wave:

Looking at the roster on wwe dot com and honestly they still probably need to trim another 25-30 wrestlers, roster is still 'too big'...aew also needs to trim their roster as well

not wishing anyone out of a paycheck tho either

Vince ixnayed her coming up with Kross, saying she was "too hokey".

I’m kinda fascinated by Eva Marie getting cut. Like...Did they not know what they were getting when they brought her back? What did they suddenly decide she didn’t bring to the table? Did someone stand up in a meeting this week while cuts were being discussed and say “I’m just gonna throw this out here. Eva Marie’s skills aren’t quite up to snuff.”?

Just had to go dig up a post from an old EWR game in March 2009 where I created a promotion entirely made of 2008/09 WWE releases and ran a Rumble on the first show.

Entry Order
1. Kenny Doane
2. Paul London
3. The Boogeyman
4. Lance Kade
5. Cliff Compton
6. Elijah Burke
7. D'Lo Brown
8. Groundskeeper Robbie
9. Val Venus
10. Bam LaRouche
11. Chuck Palumbo
12. Sinn the Clown
13. Balls Mahoney
14. Armando Castro
15. Dave Taylor
16. Gene Snisky
17. Colt Cabana
18. Trevor Murdock
19. King Nelson
20. Colin Olson
21. Ron Spears
22. James Maritato
23. Afa Jr.
24. Super Crazy
25. Thorn
26. Shannon Moore
27. Groundskeeper Rory
28. Bradley Ryan
29. Bob Howard
30. Chris Harris

I think a 2021 version of this would have way more star power, to say the least :lol:

I’d take Cliff Compton and Trevor Murdoch over all these clowns.

I would also like to know the somewhat-inverse of this....




Who the hell stood up and thought she would bring ANYTHING to the table? That isn't denying that she's eye candy, but they have that already

She could have been the top heel of the division easily.

I assume that’s what they thought when they brought her back.

What the fuck changed???

They watched her performances.

Was it all just to get Doudrop over?

What the fuck is this company’s mindset???

Can't have them know that people wrassled before they got to "E". You shall never say "Piper" and "Niven" in the same sentence.


Did they let Nia go because Piper? Just sayin...

contracts are agreements between twop people. both parties argeed to the terms.

Instead of booking her as a giant chicken shit heel who believed her own delusional hype, we got Doudrop. Have her duck out of matches, fake injuries or hell have Doudrop as your enforcer who wins matches for her. Do the whole Diesel/HBK thing but with a twist. Eva takes all the credit, mistreating Doudrop, acting cocky. Build it to Becky vs Eva in Becky's long awaited return. Eva brings back the Diva's belt. Eva orders Doudrop to take her out. Doudrop finally refuses leaving the lamb to get slaughtered. Becky returns killing this obnoxious asshole, Doudrop becomes a face and Eva comes up with excuses. It's not that hard

Yeah they pretty much did that angle but condensed it into 3 weeks.

That's all well and fine but I feel it completely misses something important: Eva has no talent other than standing around looking pretty. Without Doudrop carrying her in that scenario she would do nothing worthwhile in the ring. That only gets worse when Doudrop turns on her and she has no one to carry her. She isn't the worst on the mic ever, but she is still awful so I find it hard to think she would pull off making any of her promos believable. She would just be a female Sami Zayn with at best 1-2% of the talent he has to make it work.

They should have never brought her back in the first place.

But again, they hold all the power. Until the last 2 years they were “the only game in town”. Making it in WWE was reaching the top of the mountain. Still is. So, yeah, you go in knowing the deal, doesn’t mean it’s not a completely one-sided deal.

This. You can't say it's unfair that WWE can "break" the contract and not the talent when the whole reason WWE has that ability is because the talent willingly gave them that right when they signed on the dotted line. If you have a problem with the terms of a contract then you either negotiate or you don't sign it and walk away and go somewhere else.

If I went to a job interview and they told me "we can fire you at any time but you can't ever quit and when/if we do can you you can't work anywhere else for 3 months" then I would stand up, shake the bosses hand and wish them the best in their future endeavors.

2k22 makers in tears banging their head against the wall.

I think now that there’s a viable alternative that’s exactly what more people will do. Would a Will Osprey look at the long list of mishandled guys that were stars in Japan and just think “nah”? There’s still a chance he could be used well, and there will often be a part of you that thinks “that won’t happen to me, I’m good enough to get over regardless”, or that just wants the exposure but I think this will make guys think before they go there. Then again, WWE aren’t interested in signing guys with experience so…

He was entirely right tbf. Could they not just have asked her to tone it down though?

minus the lip syncing, i thought she was perfect with kross in nxt. liked her more than him.

That’s what I was thinking. They basically rushed through that exact story as quickly as possible and then decided Eva Marie had served her purpose before the audience fucking knew what hit them.

There’s hotshotting and then there’s... THAT.

Lol they did everything in 2 weeks

I think they seriously had Eva return, introduce Doudrop to wrestle in her place and then have Doudrop be like “Fuck this bitch...” all within 2 weeks. Lol

It may have been 1 week.

It was the Miz and Alex Riley's storyline mashed into 1 month.

yeah i am betting half of the people who signed before the 1st aew show will not be resigned when there contracts come up this and next year.

They are meant to be having Gargano and O’Reilly wrestle dark matches for Smackdown. With their contracts running out soon and what has happened to Kross and Lee today and various others before there must be little incentive on them signing a new contract with limited job security.

A paycheck?

There is that yes but they would be two people you could see at AEW after their contracts run out.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Probably the best take I've seen on the WWE releases tbh <a href="https://t.co/oFzxUUhk6E">pic.twitter.com/oFzxUUhk6E</a></p>&mdash; Alex Morrison (@Alex_m197) <a href="https://twitter.com/Alex_m197/status/1456425864128778245?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 5, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Everything you said is what makes gertner's suggested angle work so well.

And we all know wwe throws the term "independent contractor" about like it holds any weight, it's been a scam of theirs for years they've somehow been allowed to get away with. These days their contracts basically mean they own you yet they still claim performers are independent, the whole twitch channel thing said it all in that respect, wwe wanting a cut of something they shouldn't have been entitled to.

Sooner this gets taken to court and they lose big time the better.

theyre awful contracts. people shouldnt agree to them

I want to see Vince geting fucked in court, badly. He would easily owe out tens if not hundreds of millions in all types of payments that employees are entitled to that wwe dodged over the decades.

This is not a good take, at all.

Yeah, no one forces them to sign.

Fun follow up to this:


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Don’t worry fam, I see you. <a href="https://twitter.com/Cody_Starbuck?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Cody_Starbuck</a> soon. I’ll be at <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/silverspursarena?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#silverspursarena</a> today at 4 after my competition. Come down and talk. We gonna talk or what? <a href="https://t.co/lal4T8xXDj">pic.twitter.com/lal4T8xXDj</a></p>&mdash; Lince Dorado (@LuchadorLD) <a href="https://twitter.com/LuchadorLD/status/1456941665520848896?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 6, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDhqdlMX...png&name=small

We should've listened to Droford. He was right.

I typically loathe how much Destor usually sides with employers. However, given how fucking stupid all modern wrestlers come across in interviews, I'm going to agree here. So many of these people are fucking vapid morons and when it comes down to it, why feel bad for them for taking a contract they knew was shit?

Every time I listen to any of them speak as a "shoot," I die a little bit inside. Used to love shoot interviews but maaaaan. So many wrestlers just suck and deserve their shit contracts.

its not employers i side with its individual accountability. these guys see a shit comtract and decide that the deal is better than their current circumstance. and perhaps thats completely true.

but when the agreement they freely chose to agree to is followed exactly to the letter they agreed to im supposed to what? pitty them? the deal was fine as long as it was favoring them.

say what you will about him but Kenny Omega was offered a contract by the wwf and he didnt like the terms so he didnt take it and forged another path. he chose to take a risk and be accountable to himself.

the workers who chose to take a more secure route do so by agreeing to terms that have their own risks. these are those risks. in either case you're beholden to your choices.

there are no good guys and bad guys in this as long as everyone honors their agreements and these terminations dont dishonor that agreement.

and if that contract was broken in any way they should seel legal council and get the justice theyre owed

lol I don't know if I've ever seen you side with an employee unless they've been fired over "woke" reasons.

Anyways, we can champion Kenny Omega for "forging his own path" but we don't know what advantages/privileges he was working with compared to other workers who might have no other option than to take the deal--could be a matter of putting food on the table for some folks.

I know it's a huge ask--but why not just treat people like people and not basically try to imprison them via contract because you have the power to and it helps your bottom line? I'd say it's the people who deserve our compassion and understanding, not the multi-billion-dollar, publicly-traded company owned by the Tony Soprano of pro wrestling.

That said, I think most wrestlers have the choice to do other things, and thus deserve some of the accountability. But these things aren't as black and white as you make them out to be.

Gotta say, I agree with Destor

You son of a...

i doubt you can site a situation i didnt side with individual responsibility for any scenario including wokism. im a very consistent person.

and i believe the way you should treat people is by honoring your agreements and demanding excellence. we all benifit from that. employee, employer and consumer.

#metoo

I certainly don’t feel bad for talent voluntarily signing shitty deals. The reality is that until two years ago that was the best bet. What I feel bad for is talent like Keith Lee getting cut off at the knees and not being given a real chance. But even then, he’s going to be fine and getting released was a good thing for him.

that should absolutely be taken to court. hasnt happened in 50 years thpugh

(but there's nothing about being an independent contractor that makes anything i said an exclusion)

Didn’t del Rio take them to court to get around his 90 day clause

Oh absolutely. However you seem to be applying very “real world” ideals to something as idiosyncratic as professsional wrestling.

My ability to do my job to the required standard isn’t as hampered by the powers that want me to do the job to the required standard. What about Keith Lee or Karrion Kross’ main roster runs suggests they were set up to succeed? You can easily say “they’re not stars”, “they never had IT”, “I don’t see it”, “they didn’t take advantage of the opportunity” but come on.

Everyone wants to blame the office. Keith Lee and Karrion Kross were not that good. Keith Lee was brought in and immediately worked with Randy Orton. He was in the 5 vs. 5 match at Survivor Series. He got the Brock spot in the Royal Rumble. They tried to put him in top positions against top guys to produce top work. He’s not a young guy and his psychology is kind of spotty for what they want for a “big boy” (as Brock called him). His promos aren’t good either. Yeah, the company could have moved heaven and earth for him, but come on — at some point you’ve got to connect.

Karrion Kross got his chances too. They gave him promo time. Not the best push or presentation in the world, by any stretch. But for a guy that is supposed to be a “monster,” he isn’t that big and comes off as really generic to me. If he hit it out of the park and was really dynamic, he might have been given more chance to stick around. But again, I don’t know how many mountains you want to move for a guy who doesn’t do anything outstanding.

Much to the disdain of The Bastardly One, I too side with Destor here.

The contracts are shit. We get it. Don't sign it then. If more people refused to sign those contracts maybe WWE would be forced to approach them differently with better options on the table. But you can pretty much count the number of people who refused to sign it on 1 hand; as long as 99% of them continue to sign the shitty deal it's going to remain a shitty deal because there is no impetus for WWE to make it better.

WWE changing their approach to hiring and developing talent likely means they won’t change their approach to contracts any time soon. They would have to be spurned by countless would be free agent signings and given the direction they’re taking their talent pipeline I don’t see that happening any time soon.

seems like we all agree the contracts are shit at least

100% yes

This is a great point. I was thinking about this, but if they are going to be recruiting young people to train from scratch from a pool of Collegiate athletes or Olympians, those guys historically get better contracts than guys coming from a pro wrestling background anyways, so they would be less likely to turn WWE down.

Something I mentioned on other forums, but I feel like it applies here: Keith Lee is two years older than Big E. However, Big E looks about 7 years younger than 35, but Lee looks about 10-15 years older than 37. Like, he looks like he could be Big E's father. Maybe that's the true "Power of Positivity."

Kross is just a generic fuck who looks like a bad CAW created by some edgy teenager. All of his personality is stored in his wife. I believe he was good friends with Drake whatever his name was, the Qanon Ref. Hence the whole Anti-Vax thing. I'm sure that made him a real peach to be around (there's been talk of his attitude much like Lee's). I wouldn't doubt that he felt like the only way they could use Scarlett was if she was with him, and WWE just decided not to bother with either of them. If that is the case, it would make him significantly dumber than Candido, Mero, and Morrison put together. But that part is speculation.

What has been said about Lee’s attitude?

And Lmaooo at noid. I’m sure it’s Lee’s fault for not connecting surely only winning 1 match out of a combined 7 matches against Orton, Braun and McIntyre, while losing 4 and having 2 no finishes, gave him every chance to get over and look like a huge star. And that was just his 2020 on TV And ppv.

In 2021, he traded wins with Kross, who was DOA his first night, and beat such huge names as Akira Tozawa and Cedric Alexander. The only name he beat this year that’s actually been somewhat protected or at least regularly featured is Riddle.

The only thing they seemed to have established was that Lee will have some moments but is mostly a jobber who isn’t good enough to beat those guys. That’s not doing a talent favors if you’re trying to get them over as a big name player.

Don’t understand how anyone could blame Lee for not succeeding given that he was never booked to be a big deal.

Here's the thing about that: the primary problem comes from using the excuse about budgetary cuts like your're hemorrhaging money, but then coming out with major profits when the financials come out. At the very least, it's a bad look when you cry poor, and wipe away the tears with way more cash than you made last year.

The optics of that are one of two things: you're either doing something unsustainable while trying to continue the illusion that you make record profits, or you just don't give a fuck about your EMPLOYEES* at all.


Yeah, Scarlett was too hokey, but dressing Kross up like MasterBlaster without the midget on his back was apparently "good shit!" They could have tweaked shit with them, because that was already a ready-made package that could've used polish. Instead, they have to completely fuck with everything, and when that didn't go over well, it's somehow the fault of the talent.


The bigger issue here, though, is that they (WWE) have gotten to the point that they have deluded themselves into wanting instant gratification and THINK they can generate that themselves.

Let's not even specify anyone, let's make up a hypothetical amalgamation. Imagine Wrestler X has made a name for himself on the indys. And I don't mean as Flippy McKickpads, I mean a solid guy who can go bell to bell. This ficticious person looks like Ultimate Warrior in his prime, wrestles similar to Mr. Perfect, and has the gift of gab to rival Paul E line for line. They spend two years in NXT, and has a natural progression from nobody to NXT Champion. Has a following, and some catchphrase or some shit that nets him a unique marketable chant. These are all things you'd think would add up to an impossible to fuck up main roster talent that they can pad their ranks with.

Then he gets called up to RAW, and he suddenly wears coveralls to hide the physique. He gets the Sin Cara mood lighting. He gets no promo time. He jobs every other week in squash matches. Fans barely get a chance to do the chant. Complete 180 from what fans were witnessing for two years. Finally, Vince goes "nah, I don't see it", and this guy is out on his ass.

This isn't specifically about or limited to Kross and Keith, or anyone on this current slate of releases... but since they're here:

I've said from day one that *I* personally don't see the attraction with Keith Lee. I could never divorce him from being Shane Taylor's tag team partner in RoH. They were both generic big guys to me. However, I could clearly see Keith Lee was getting traction in NXT. Also, matches with Randy Orton shouldn't exactly be a barometer of success in WWE, since he does have a record of derailing pushes if *he* didn't like the match no matter what came before or after. They kepts trying to fuck with his gear, his gimmick, and his NAME instead of just letting him be.

As stated earlier, Kross and Scarlett were a package already. He wasn't the absolute best on the stick, but it wasn't like he was absolute ass, either. But the whole "If it ain't broke... let's break it" company mentality still won out, even though it wasn't the way most of us predicted (face it, most of you were like me and figured they would push Scarlett beyond Mars and Karrion Kross would get the Marc Mero treatment unless she got pregnant like Maria Kanellis did).

It makes no sense to try to "create new stars", while either simultaneously rejecting or actively fucking with all these supposed new stars. They start latching onto the barest handful of moneymakers and humping them dry for about a decade and then calling back people who have moved on to try to trade on the nostalgia that they themselves don't even actively educate their fans on. There's going to come a day where nobody knows who Stone Cold Steve Austin is.

It's easy to say about anyone who gets released everytime releases happen things like there was "nothing special about them" or "nothing of value was lost", but there is something of value lost. These people aren't supposed to be interchangable actors that can be plugged in anywhere and replaced like a car part. Hell, actors aren't even often interchangeable actors. Fans usually have shitfits if a show is recast or hilarity ensues with a big-budget film getting direct to video sequels with a very different person playing the lead role of who is supposedly the same guy.

WWE has very greatly distanced themselves from what they actually are so much over the last couple of decades. You have all the Vince-isms of "don't call it a belt" and a bunch of shit worded in ways that people don't actually speak. You have a maniac in the truck in love with sickening camerawork and a new toy in the last couple of years in the whole AR floating entrance shit. You have a bunch of people in suits who aren't even fans of the business they're in telling people who are supposed to be the product that they aren't suited to be the product because reasons. Or that someone who is so green that they could literally kill someone/themselves in the ring that they're good to go because they "look good on camera", or tell a top draw their voice is terrible, or a littany of other things. It's an unweildy corporate entity that seems to be actively trying to somehow simultaneously sustain their viewership, grow their profits, yet drive fans away by making them not care or invest in anyone because nobody will be invested into long enough for anyone to actively care about.

Kross was very much not keeping it simple. He was best as a rage filled mauler. The entrance and presentation, followed by just destroying people, it worked. Then they had him start cutting weird promos, and even worse once they brought him to the main roster they took everything that worked away. No Scarlett, no black and white entrance, then they made him a Samari, then a psycho, then released him, all within a span of about 2 months.

No one is crying poor. Having $200 million in spare cash doesn’t mean your budget is $200 million. Just because you are rolling in dough doesn’t mean streamlining your talent roster is inherently counterintuitive.

I hate being pushed into the position where I am defending this company, but who is that perfect wrestler? I’m not saying the WWE doesn’t miss the boat on talent. They obviously do. But not everyone they miss is this giant missed opportunity either. I used to think that way, but it’s just so wrong.

Most of the people being released do kind of fit that Flippy McKickpads description. Or they’re just the shits in the ring.

There are people who do, somehow, get over in this environment. Drew McIntyre, the Street Profits, Bianca Belair. I would love for the WWE to be calibrated to my tastes as a fan. I’d love for it to lose the forced promos, terrible tropes and be booked like proper pro-wrestling. God knows I’m hungry for it. But people act as if it’s impossible to be good at your job in this environment.

This has to be the dumbest thing I've read in a while. Really tells you how far certain people will go with their hot takes. While I'm not a Kross fan, he did not get a fair chance. His presentation which made him special was greatly altered and he was separated from his wife/valet. Not to mention that his undefeated streak was killed off in a 2-minute nothing match on RAW while he was the champion. Then he was saddled with one of the most cringe-worthy gimmicks in recent times. For someone who rambles on about perception being key, this has to be one of the dumbest takes in a while. Absolutely cringe inducing stuff.

Wade Keller is reporting that even supporters of Keith Lee are saying he did have a bit of an attitude problem, or at least a “perceived” one. Say what you will about his booking, but there are variables that go into how you are going to fit that environment that fans don’t see.

This is where I land on the issue too. If you cut someone because "you're not connecting with the crowd" or "creative has nothing for you" that's one thing. But to claim it's for budget cuts when you're making money hand over fist is, at the very least, shitty optics.

Kross was never impressive, even in NXT. His entrance and music were move over than anything.


I strongly recall him beating Balor with that stupid ass forearm to the back of the neck. I don't buy the dude as some beast. They REALLY fucked him on the main roster with all the changes, too. Oh well, he wasn't that great, certainly not as good as Balor.

I thought he was presented well in NXT [mostly because of the entrance and his laaaddyyyy, but anyway]. But as soon as he stood across from Jeff Hardy on RAW and I realized they're kinda the same size, I knew he was done. Or at least, there was no chance of recapturing whatever he had that got him going in NXT.

I am not a fan of Kross either. But to suggest that he got a fair shot on the main roster is utter nonsense. That’s the issue I have with Nerfect’s post.

So direct your post at Nerfect? I didn't say anything related to your post.


It was painfully obvious he was never going to cut it on the main roster anyway.

whats a fair shot and why are people entitled to it

Nerfect and I are not on talking terms anymore :o

Then stop invoking his name, especially when it's not even related.

What do you think the outcome would be if one of these dudes just turned up on AEW, no compete be damned?

WWE takes them to court for breaking contract. People start taking a look at the whole “independent contractor” deal? Is that a can of worms WWE want to open?

Part of me thinks it depends who it is. If it's a midcard guy? Maybe WWE won't bother. But if a bigger name gets cut on Monday and shows up on Dynamite Wednesday? That'd probably be an issue.

(This could all be bullshit and WWE could go after anyone who does that. But I feel like they "couldn't care less" if like, Lince Dorado popped up on Dynamite or Rampage in the next few days.)

She's a drama queen

The wrestler would go broke from the legal process and that's why they are fearful to challenge it.

Thanks for acknowledging me, King ;)

They're not.

I think the better argument is that when someone does start to gain momentum, WWE has a habit of cutting their legs out from under them for no apparent reason.

its a terrible habit of theirs. horrible booking and they do it all the time.

Agreed. Simply turrible.

The company got shit all the time for not having anything for people. Or would be blamed for guys not connecting. If the WWE just came out and said “We don’t want you here anymore and it’s our prerogative who we pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to” people would still whinge.

I still don’t get the budget cut = they’re broke argument. Just because you can afford something doesn’t mean you have an expansive budget. Especially if you are trying to get elements of your business under control that would not necessarily be profitable if you were to lose major revenue streams.

Yeah, he was framed well in NXT. I agree with drave in that I was never on-board, but he just can’t be a big fish in a small pond up on the main roster.

There’s a case of the Mike Awesomes with him. Everyone who saw Awesome in ECW thought of him as a big guy. Then when he shows up in the WWF you realize that he looks smaller than Bradshaw.

I also wonder if there was a case of the Mike Bennetts with him too. I think Vince has a guy hyped to him as being so very much in the WWE mold. Then he sees them and is like “That’s it? That’s him?!”

I think the issue is WWE is still paying them during those 90 days. That is why they keep their WWE Twitter handles until that 90 days are up. Logically I would rather keep getting paid and not have to pay legal fees.

That said, Brock Lesnar already won a court case over WWE's non compete clause, but he even said it cost him a lot of money. In his case, so what because he could make 10 times more in New Japan and UFC than his legal fees, but nobody else has that unique earning power to command $10-$15 million a year.

Keith Lee and Karrion Kross got shitty gimmicks on the main roster? Yes, they did. But guess what? I know of one guy who had shittier gimmicks than both of them. I am talking about an Ex-Rugby Player. I am talking about his only personality quality was that he spoke 5 languages. I am talking about whatever the fuck that yodeling thing was.

And guess what? Cesaro's still around. He'll likely never be WWE Champion. He isn't the poster child of charisma. All of that said, he seems like one of the most universally liked guys in WWE, and he's versatile enough that he can be plugged into almost any spot and it works. Main Eventer needs some down time? Put him in a tag team with Cesaro. Heel needs to get his heat back? Put him in there with Cesaro. And Creative always seems to have something for him (apart from recently, but he did have a rather talked about bout with Walter recently). And he never seems to be on the list of people who might get cut. Talent plays a fairly big role, but I think attitude plays a bigger one.

Cesaro is a good hand. he gets the people he works with over.

Hey, this brings up a question and forgive me for my ignorance but are the talent required to have a Twitter account/handle while being a contracted talent? Because, you know, ew.

There's always a place in the wrestling business for a good hand. He'll almost certainly be a trainer in the Performance Center after his WWE run is over.

I would argue that Big E is another example of attitude keeping someone around. He was just kind of there from his debut. They gave him the one big babyface run that fizzled. He was kind of just being used as a very buff jobber. He could have very easily been cut after he lost the IC title, but everyone seems to like him, as well. And he got another chance from there became part of one of the biggest draws in the WWE.

I am ultimately saying that having a good attitude in WWE can give you chances that having all the talent in the world won't.

I don't think they "have to" have to, but I think it is strongly encouraged. Clearly some guys have way more freedom to post what they want than others.

When "budget concerns" is a phrase used, the implication is that you're overspending. Again, you either shouldn't have thrown that money around to begin with, or you're using that as an excuse... and the money you "save" looks like extra in the coffers.

If the talent isn't that valuable to you, then don't throw that value out there. This isn't limited to this particular crop of cuts, or even this field.

You act as if folks are saying they should be spending every dime they're making. Not the point at all. However, using that $200 million example, if you're spending $50 million, you're still up $150 million. There isn't really a dire need to save that chunk of cash just to make it look better on paper. If you have it to spend, and contracted people on the promise of it, then you go "Whoops, I don't actually have the money to give you, bye!" then turn around and brag about making $200 million. That sounds like a crock of shit to the folks you just kicked to the curb. Especially to ones that don't even get the chance to see any supposed return on investment because you changed your mind on investing in them.

Instead, it sounds more like an empty excuse. Much like when people used the phrase "in this economy..." around the 2008 housing bubble burst, even when the job wasn't even tangentially connected to the mortgage crisis at all. "Budgetary concerns" is almost a corporate way of saying "I could pay you, but I don't feel like it because profit margins" in fewer words and trying to dress it up like it can't be helped even if it can.

One thing their change in hiring philosophy will hopefully eliminate is their need to warehouse people and waste their time and careers just so someone else can't have them that they've been doing for about two decades or so now. Small solace, but still a minuscule plus.


Asking "who that perfect wrester" is basically just rode past the entire point of it being a hypothetical, can't-miss person that WWE would find a way to completely fuck up. It wasn't anyone in particular: they prob'ly don't exist. And if they did, I say again, WWE would likely fuck them up.

A thing I've said for years is that they are so intent on trying to find the next Hulk Hogan, that they'll overlook the next Rick Rudes, or Roddy Pipers, or a litany of other past top stars in their blind pursuit to not only find that cash cow figurehead, but somehow copy and paste them. That's not how any of that works, but it feels like nobody can tell Vince and company that.

I've also said that my decline in interest in WWE television started in the throes of the Smackdown Six era brand split. Smackdown had overtaken RAW in interest, ratings, match quality, and goddamn storytelling. It was done over time, and with talent that was supposedly for the most part subpar to who was on "the flagship". Heyman took that supposed chicken shit and made state fair quality chicken salad. And instead of having RAW do that same shit with the supposedly superior crop of talent, they instead just started poaching the people who were now over and have them appear on Monday nights and still put the same crummy effort into getting any of the stars they supposedly already had over. Nowadays, it's like they're mostly treating everyone like they're RAW talent from that era, and most of the NXT call-ups have been actively fucked with in one way or another at the transition if they even get called at all.

And being "the shits in the ring" is relative. Yes, I'm glad they got rid of the potentially lethal cancer that was Eva Marie again, but they still have Baron Corbin. Some of them were too new. Some of them never got an opportunity to be anything other than background bland. And the people who can and do stand out get meddled with. Again, something that happens most release cycles.

I'm actually not as excited about Steiner as I should be, because I'm just waiting for the punchline- that moment where they have someone that has future star written all over him, but somehow drop the boat and have him gone in the next eight months.

Overall, this isn't an indictment of the here and now. It's and ongoing gripe with WWE in general that has been happening for ages.