no, Hurley can see dead people. Jacob was dead. No one else could see him. I'm pretty sure that was Jacob.

Yeah that's what I figured at first, but being LOST, didn't think it could be that simple.

Crazy how it really is all a big chess game. The two kings can't kill the other, thus evil Jacob using Ben to do the deed. Everyone is a pawn.

Also really liked them highlighting the theme of coercion vs. free will (evil Jacob didn't force Ben to do anything, but was it still Ben's free will?)

Guys


You keep mentioning the bomb going off.

I dont think it did. They flashed right then and instead. This lead to the hatch still being built and really nothing stopping, as well as them still crashing. Nothing was changed. Everything happened as it should for them, and htey just returned to their time.

I think the alternate reality is jus that, but not a direct result of that exact realities plane not crashing. Its like a red herring. This explains why Shannon wasnt on the plane, why Locke went on his walkabout, why Desmond was on the plane and why Hurley calls himself the luckiest man alive (No curse)

Two Unrelated timelines

Crash - Time Travel - Return as we have seen.

Everyone has a different life and lands fine in LA. Their lives before and after the crash are different.

Im calling that as the major twist.

Another reason the events werent prevented...The coffin is missing...in the 1st reality it was on the plane, so even if they didnt crash it would be on there. Plus the island was under water...we will see.



OR Better yet


Whatever happens this season will create the alternate timeline where the island is under water.

So the real cause of the alternate reality is yet to happen, so it will be a twist since we think it was because of the bomb. Maybe the story will truly end with that as the result.

The ideas are flowing.

JAcob touched each of the losties as some point.

The note said Sayid "cannot die". I think that means that they have to protect each lostie from death.

Why?

While jacob was killed by Ben, he imprinted himself on all the losties. As long as they all live, so does he. He is not truly gone, and the war is not over.


I love this show, it just makes you think of your own crazy ideas.

More to support my idea that the event that changes realities happens later:

Maybe the end this war of Jacob and the man in black, thus the island sinks as it has no use since the "game" is over. Then no Dharma, no hatch, no numbers, Desmond doesnt crash there, so that explains why he is on the plane.

Ill stop spamming now

I gathered that the bomb DID go off. They weren't building the hatch when they blew it up, and it was the detonation of the bomb itself that was the "incident" that necessitated the hatch being built

Not true. They were building the hatch. Remember, when Hurley arrived with Miles to the site BEFORE the incident, they watched the door with the numbers be chiseled and put into place.

Dunno. Maybe the bomb went off at the same time simultaneously with a time flash and this created an alternate reality in which Oceanic 815 never crashes, yet leaves the "original" characters in the "original" timeline.

Also, too early to tell because there's no evidence, but maybe "Sayid" is now Jacob, sorta like how "Locke" is the Man in Black.

Radinzski and Cheng often call it the "Swan"

Plus this

Construction of the Swan began sometime before July of 1977 and Radzinsky was seen with full blueprints of the station and a survey map when he was stationed at the Flame that same year. Radzinsky's goal was to manipulate electromagnetism through experiments at the station, believing the results would fundamentally change the world. According to Pierre Chang, the Swan project was "confidential" as the station was located inside Hostile territory. The station's existence needed to be kept secret per the stipulations of The Truce forbidding deep drilling.

During the construction of the station, one worker was killed when one of his dental fillings was pulled through his forehead by a huge electromagnetic force. Another worker at the construction site was seen hammering the Numbers into the station's hatch, although their significance is unknown. ("Some Like It Hoth") ("Namaste") ("The Incident, Parts 1 & 2") When Daniel Faraday returned to the Island in 1977, he immediately warned Pierre Chang that continued drilling would lead to a release of a highly unstable energy, causing the Incident. ("The Variable")

The woman that identified Jack and Co when they arrived in the temple as people from Flight 815 is the flight attendant right? The one that gives Jack the rest of the bottle of liquor and then gets him to help when Charlie is almost dead in the lavatory.

The Stewardess was in an episode of season 3 in the Other's work camp on the Smaller Island, and told Jack that they were here to watch. So, I don't think the Temple people are anti-others.

Ben wanted Alex, Danielle and Carl to make it to that temple before being gunned down by Keamy's merks.

At the same time though, Richard doesn't know where the flare came from or why it was fire, which indicates to me they're a separate group

Who says he doesnt know? He sees it and gets shaken and turns around into Fake Locke. I think he knew what it meant, and it scared him.

Suppose you're probably right, the more I think about it.

Just seems odd to me that they've never been addressed until now.

What do you guys think about the cabin? Is that evil-Jacob's lair? Or is it the one place evil Jacob can't access (due to all the ash, which we've seen repels the smoke monster to some extent)

And is it safe to say that Christian Shepard is evil-Jacob? Considering he was the one who convinced Locke that he'd have to die to bring everyone back.

From the link posted on the page before:

ooo good stuff....Hmmm.

Fuck sake, I just spoiled this for myself. I just downloaded Episode 1 and didnt know there was an episode 2, so I was in here thinking what the fuck are these guys talking about. Have to stay out of here until I watch Episode 2.

Downloading the episodes as I type, I have 19 mins for it to finish, I can put it on my thumb drive and watch it at work, will it finish before I have to go?

saieed wakes up

:D

My fuck kid, I will beat you to within an inch of your life if we ever meet.

Also, its Sayid you asshole.

:lol: and no, no you wont

Just because your an MMA fighter doesnt mean I wont put a pounding on you kid, I am basically the essence and build of legendary boxer, Butterbean, through and through.

theres a hollow wooden cross with a note inside the guitar case and sawyer buries juliette

It finished, if that was a spoiler I will kill you Reavent because you are a cunt.

Can't say I didn't see that coming as soon as Fallen Angel said he was downloading episode two. Let us all learn from his terrible error.

anything i can do to help :y:

kate gets away

I have clicked on this thread, and ran the scroller straight to the very bottom so I cannot see any of this stuff. I just wanted to let you all know it's killing me not being able to discuss this.

As member of the GAY UK, we don't get LOST till Friday at 9pm, and I am actually 'staying in on Friday night' to watch it. I know I could d/l it in HD right now, but I got a thing about watching it on my big screen TV on the couch.

I am very jealous, and look forward to taking part.

Probably going to watch it again right now

Kates a man

lol

I put Reacunt on ignore after the first spoiler ;)Im not that stupid. Also I am happy to say I called Locke being the smoke monster a long time ago.

:kiss:

Just took him off ignore and I see he is as much of a cunt as I thought. Still love you but god you are a cunt.

:love:

Yeah I hate having to wait and not being able to read any forums or anything. So I tend to watch it online the morning after it aired in America and then I'm going to watch it again on my TV on friday or maybe the repeat on Sunday.

I feel bad for you guys.

4 days til the next new episode though :love:

4 Days? What you talkin bout hermy?

well 4 full days.

new episode Tuesday homie

unless I missed something

Oh right, I forgot I watched it basically 2 days after it aired haha.

Actually they covered their asses with that one back in Season 5. When they get back to the beach after the first few jumps in time they still have the little speed boat from the freighter, Juliet guesses that whatever they have with them travels with them through time.

We see it again with the canoe-style boat and the rope that goes down the well.


As for the "Alternate Universe", I figured everything we had seen would turn out to be the result of whatever happens in this season. Not so sure now.

Good episode. Not full of big revelations like the first, but that's to be expected. Now they'll start the gradual build.
Good character development scenes.

Some cool stuff though. Some more light shed on what's going on with The Man In The Black.
Finally they addressed Claire disappearing with "Christian".

Was not anticipating a Mac Attack at all.

line of the night by the funniest character ever, Miles to Sayid

"as you can see, Hurley has assumed the position as leader....That's great"

Linus is far funnier and he doesn't even try to be.

Jack: "What's going to happen to all these other people when this plane crashes?"

Linus: "Who cares?!"

Locke: 'You just killed everyone on that boat!'

Linus: 'So?'

lol another great one

Don't forget the classic scene of Ben and Hurley sharing an Apollo bar.

Or right before Ben knocks out the Arab guy in the Tunisian desert with a rifle butt -

'Oh, so you do speak English...'

Hurley throws a hot pocket at Linus and he just sidesteps it

But Locke isn't the smoke monster, Locke is dead. The guy that wanted to kill Jacob clearly has an ability to inhabit dead people on the island so he became Christian to make Locke go back and die before returning to the island so he could become Locke and make Ben kill Jacob as he was unable to himself.

Really hope they don't have him/it take over Sayid's body now though and use that to gain entrance to the temple as that wouldn't make much sense if hes been able to take over any body on the island he should have had a much easier time of it all. Hope its explained away that people have to arrive dead before he can take over or something.

The thing that is taking over Sayeed isn't the same as The Man In Black imitating Locke and Christian though, I don't think.

In the case of Locke and Christian, their form is used by the Man in Black, and they remain dead.

I gathered that Sayeed is slowly being turned into some kind of servant to The Man in Black, just like Claire has been

That was my take on it too. We know that there is some kind of "war" being waged - more than likely between Jacob and MIB. Claire and Sayid have been "claimed" for MIB's side.

Love the way they've swung the characters of Jack and Sawyer to start this season. Last season at this time Jack was a whiny bitch and Sawyer was his tough wannabe cowboy self.

Claire has been claimed. The asian leader told Jack.

I wonder if this infection has anything to do with the shots Desmond and the hatch workers before him took regularly.
I had chalked that up as some lie/experiment/placebo from the Dharma Initiative, but it may actually have meaning

I don't know if there's any way to tell between those who are sick and those who are inhabited by the MIB. The only sick people we saw were the Frenchies, and we saw them attacked by the Monster only to be "released."

It seemed to me that Claire showed some sort of surprise when she saw Jin. We've never seen any of MIB's incarnations show any emotion at all.

Claire is not MIB. Nor is Sayid. MIB is "dressed up as" Locke on the other side of the island, more than likely making his way to the temple.

We're being told that Sayid and Claire have been "claimed", probably for the use of MIB but I don't think Claire/Sayid are in the same state as "Locke" or "Christian".

Think there are going to be different 'claimed' types.

Claire has been 'claimed' yet she is not dead, she appears to be confused and going mad, kinda like Danielle did or was. The 'sickness'. When her team arrived, they got 'sick', one of those guys was taken by the monster and he had changed and tried to kill Danielle.

Then there's people like Charlie and Christian, who are dead and appear to be influencing people to do tasks. If someone else has been using Jacob's cabin, and Christian took Claire and she is now 'claimed', then there is some kind of line or difference between those who are dead and those who are not.

Then again, Walt appeared to Locke and saved him in the Dharma pit, and yet he is not dead, nor do I believe he could be 'claimed', after all he is 'special'. BUT then again, Jacob didn't 'claim' Walt or Charlie, I think his chosen primaries are the ones he touched in The Incident.

Flocke could be heading to The Temple, but I believe they picked early footage of the series to use in the trailer. If this is correct, I suggest he is on his way there, but ultimately arrives at the Barracks to coerce Sawyer into joining his side, since Sawyer is broken and full of dread and pain and harbors hate for Jack. I just got this feeling Flocke will home in on this and manage to get him on his side. But then Jacob did visit Sawyer and presumably 'claimed' him.

Im starting to think Claire died in the cabin when the Merc blew it up.

THen she came back much like Sayid and stumbles out only to dissappear.

That is why the others knew he was "infected". The waters may be some form of healing via Jacob, which didnt work since he was dead (Which is why thewater was colored) and the Man in Black/FLocke can bring people back from the dead with his power, but you become one of his people.

I imagine they dipped young ben in that same healing water.

MIB has some form of power over death.

He has appeared seemingly as the 2 dead bodies brought to the island. And those who died on the island he has "claimed"

When Ben was saved as a child by Richard, Richard told them his innocence would be lost forever. He would always be 'one of them'.



With the whole water thing, it's like sign that badness/the 'destiny' over free will aspect is winning - Flocke has a body, his army is growing, Jacob is dead, etc - there is this frame on the trailer where he takes a white rock off the scales, suggesting the dark rock/badness is winning.

I agree MIB has some kind of power, but I'm not sure it's with regard to taking control of them after they die. As the monster, he would 'judge' them, now believe it wasn't a matter of being judged, rather to see if they are able to be 'claimed', if they are, as Mikhail once put, 'flawed' and not on the list/Jacob's list.

Yeah, my take is that when you're "infected" you're essentially becoming MIB's minion - not inhabited by him. He can only inhabit those who have died prior to coming to the island (Christian Shepherd, Yemi, Locke).

Also, Locke's body is still there, he wasn't reanimated like Sayid.

Yeah that's one thing I'm kinda stuck on too.

I had a thought that there are two bodies because he has actually maybe focused more of his power and ability to actually inhabit his, with the ability to not only be seen and heard but also have human traits such as physical strength etc. I always found it odd that, as Christian, when Locke asked him for help in the frozen donkey wheel chamber, Christian couldn't/wouldn't physically help him up. Yet when Charlie slapped Hurley at the mental hospital, he felt it.

I think Christian wouldnt have helped because locke had to do it on his own, and therefore be banished on his own.

No, he didn't refuse to help him push the wheel, he refused to help him up, as in come into physical contact with him period. Just rather curious about who he can take form of, and what limits those forms have.

I agree he wanted Locke to do it, as he told him the first time around HE had to, yet Ben ended up doing it, thus finding his loop hole.

Notice that MIB refuses to touch anybody, whereas Jacob touches everybody.

In the flashbacks where we see Jacob visiting the passengers at earlier points in their lives, he always touches them.

He punched and picked up Richard. But that might be because Richard is an Other.

I was mainly referring to his refusal to touch Locke, and Jacob's touching of everyone.

I never would have noticed that he deliberately touched everyone unless I had heard Damen Lindelof point it out.

There should be a Richard backstory episode pretty soon. It seems like next week the beach crew is going to meet up with the temple crew.

I'm glad. It feels like Sun and Lapidus have been standing on the beach forever.

I'm sure Lapidus sang Forever In Blue Jeans to keep everyone on the beach entertained

Yeah looking forward to that..

Every season we get the backstory of someone important who has been in it a while, yet we know nothing about.

Season 2 > Desmond
Season 3 > Ben
Season 5 > Jacob/MIB

Be good to see him arrive on The Black Rock in those chains.

Back stories are always exciting when they haven't been done.

I remember when I first watched the first season, after I caught on to the fact that each episode would give the backstory of a different character, it got really exciting to see who was next, and wonder when certain characters would get their episode

What if we seen MIB as evil.......and he in the ends turns out to be the one who is good

I thought that myself

Honestly, I still wonder if he was talking about the chains metaphorically. As in, he just killed Jacob.. so perhaps Richard is no longer immortal. 'Unbound' from his chains, so to speak.

this

Ok JUST THOUGHT OF THIS: What if MIB/Smoke Monster is at Jacob's bidding, and it is really Jacob who's interested in judging these people, then offing them if they don't meet his standards? Seems pretty dick of Jacob to bring all these people to the island with the knowledge that many will die

I am just going to make a small theory.

If you freeze frame anytime with the smoke monster, you will see someones face in it somewhere.

I think this may be

1) Souls of the dead
2) Memories of the dead
3) Both of the above
4) Anger of the dead

Well, when smokey faced off with Eko in season 2 in the jungle, the pictures/faces of people inside the cloud were images of Eko's life, his past. The monster has the ability to see into the lives of anyone it want seemingly.

Correct, however isnt Eko dead on the island? ;)

What?

If you couldnt understand that I think the smoke monster is the embodiment of souls of everyone who has died on the island, I dont know how else I could explain it BK.

Think you're a little off there, FA.

Well, maybe not off but you seem to be reading into something that others are understanding differently i.e. the images seen in the Smoke Monster.

From what we have seen (in the aforementioned scene with Eko and also when it "judges" Ben under the temple) the images we see in the Smoke are images from the person's past and therefore the things that they are being "judged" on. Ben sees all of the things leading up to the death of Alex for instance.

On that line of thinking, I was having a few thoughts about the temple and the cabin.

We have been lead to believe that the cabin belonged to Jacob (by Ben and Illana pretty much confirmed it when she said "He hasn't been here for a long time"). In addition, when we saw the French guys during one of the flashes the Smoke Monster tries to drag one of them under the temple and that's where Ben goes to get "judged".

We see that the cabin is surrounded by ash and that the Others at the temple begin to use the ash to protect them from the Smoke Monster.

The presumption is that the circle of ash around the cabin was to protect Jacob, but why would Jacob need protecting from Smokey if he can't be hurt or at least killed by it? Is it more likely that the ash was to keep something from getting out?

Perhaps the temple belongs to the Smoke Monster? Perhaps Jacob took control of the temple and banished Smokey/MIB to the cabin? Perhaps we do have it backwards and Jacob isn't the good guy?

Is Jacob using MIB/Smokey to do his biding? Is MIB being kept there against his will? Is that why he wants it all to end so that he can go "home"?

So, Jacob is Willy Wonka. The Crash was his golden tickets, and he's looking for the one person willing to take over his role.

Jacob: I don't want to run this Island forever Charlie, and I really don't like feel like trying. Oh wait a second Charlie, you died, you blew up the Station that needs to be washed and sterilized! So, you lose, GOOD DAY SIR.........I SAID GOOD DAY!

The winner gets a lifetime supply of unanswered questions...

So in this alternate timeline, Helen mentions Lockes dad coming to their wedding so you would assume they are on good terms. If that's the case I wonder how John ended up in the chair.

"The universe has a way of course correcting" Desmond.

It was probably his mom who pushed him off.

I was really suprised that we saw Helen at all. I thought her being dead in the real storyline was some sort of thing about Katey Segal not wanting to be in it.

the boss guy was calling him by a military term so im qassuming he was a soldier

He called him that in Season 1 and we see him playing a war board game on his lunch break, Randy was taking the piss. Of course, in our alternate timeline he may very well have been a soldier.

At this point we don't know if we'll see the characters pre-flight stories so we may never know.

Really feeling like MIB isn't quite as much of a villain as we might think. Think he's more of a gray area. Unless flat out everything he told Sawyer was a lie.

Also betting that the ghostly kid is Jacob's son.

I thought ghost kid was Jacob reincarnated by the island or something

Aaron? I mean, he would be 4 or 5 by now, and he's blonde - and that kid also looked a LOT like Claire

He'd only be 3 surely, 3 years since they left the island after a little over 100 days on the island

Ogen's right on this one.

when Locke threw the light stone into the water and said something of "it's an inside joke" my thought immediately went back to this scene

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