I hope they do too. I'm just being realistic.

Prove you wrong? I haven't been put in a position that I need to prove anything. I'll wait to prove you wrong once you prove something.

If you compare TNA to when it went on PPV to RoH at this moment there's a noticable difference. When TNA jumped into PPV they had little to no exposure. No one had heard of them. RoH on the other hand has a strong and loyal fan base and a name that a lot of people are interested in, yet have no means of seeing it.

PPV is their answer.

Your mistake is thinking they actually need TNAs numbers. A lower production cost than TNA, crossed with lower paid talent than their competition, added to (me assuming here,) them charging more for tickets, food at the arena, DVD price, etc., could very well equal them not only not needing to make as much as TNA on the event itself but coming closer to equaling their increased cost to produced the show.

Lets keep in mind that they don't need to charge as much for the Pay per View as TNA/WWE as well. All contributing factors that can get them buys. While on the subject of viewers, as noted earlier, a large number of the IWC itself does want to see RoH. Every time I see RoH brought on boards I see many people wishing they could see some and for a group of those people this will be their answer. Another thing to consider is that wrestling is not in the companies title, so they might sucker in a group of people thinking this is Boxing/MMA. ( :D ) And no I'm not kidding.

I'm unaware that they were losing money putting on shows and would LOVE to see some evidence of this, as none has been presented to me, and sorry, Rob's word is not law. But that doesn't mean I don't want to know whats up, so hook me up if you could.

As far as you having the numbers, Rob I've watched you post for forever, if you had info when I said you didn't have shit, you would have threw it in my face and whiped your cock out. So if I didn't know before, I think I know for a fact now.

SO I guess I should be asking you, how do you know they cant break even?

Truth is, neither of us know, we're just specualting. It's all bullshit.

What we should be doing is waiting for some numbers...

Bump this thread in 6 months and we'll see.

Deal.

Judges vote: Rob pwned BTY.

God I HATE having to say Rob is right. Someone find me some Kliq shit to talk about...

RoH could sign Waltmen, after all of his succes in WSX after all.

Throw HALL in on the deal as well, and you have one of the strongest promotions in the World. :yes:

Just to elborate, I was never saying that I think RoH is destined for sucess, it's just seems insane to think that they are doomed.

Credible is free...

Well do you, or are you just pulling that playground bullshit?
And even though I think this may fail, who the fuck are you to insist upon it as though its pure fact? I know you "know your facts", but you don't know the future, and you need to relax on BTY for having a little optimism. Even if you do have reasons to believe it will fall flat on it's face, that still doesn't neccesarilly mean it will. He's right when he responds to you saying "prove me wrong" with "you haven't proved anything right". What does he have to prove wrong, your (educated) prediction?

The world will end on July 19th, prove me wrong. I respect you man, and I even agree with you, but I just can't believe you're bullying him around for disagreeing in opinion about the fate of something that has yet to be determined, as if you were the Nostradamus of Wrestling.
And even if you are and expert, and even if you do "know about running PPVs", how does that still dictate the future?
Even the experts scoffed at Bischoff for doing 12 ppvs and tackling Monday nights, and even the experts said PPV wrestling like Wrestlemania would never work. You don't know shit for sure, even though perhaps you personally have good reason to believe.

Rob's right so often that it seems worth trusting him, and assuming that he does know, instead of pulling that "playground shit."

Seriously, he is the ONE guy on here with a near immaculate track record. While he's not right 100% of the time, it'spretty clear he knows his shit.

Dave Meltzer tries that same shit.

Trust his gut and then acts like he has inside knowledge. It's lame. If you can prove RoH isn't making money at the gate, if you can prove that their DVD sales are dropping, then get on that.

What is there to hide?

I think the majority of people here are ready to believe the truth, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone dumb enough to play along just "because Rob said it."

Especialy when you consider this guy has almost moved on from wrestling and is focusing the majority of his energy into MMA (something he somehow always knows the inner workings about [makes you wonder there too.])

Sounds like Meltzer: says his speculation as fact and then waits for it to come true.

And if it doesn't then enter the bullshit excuses.*

Is asking for facts and/or evidence too much? How about a sorce?





















The last part only applies to Dave Meltzer.

But I will concede that he has a fantastic batting average.

With a batting average like his, it's hard to say he's going by his gut. Especially when, as you say, he's all but removed himself from wrestling.

Actually you know what I think this a good idea. Right now I can tell you I am going to order this PPV. I'm the defination of a casual ROH fan.

Ordering a PPV to is mch less of hassle then buying a DVD off their website to. Again I don't think this is a bad move.

I feel the same. I am VERY excited, and I can tell you now, I'll spend a lot of time hyping this to people.

Fair enough. I said I agree with him and I damn sure respect him. But he's insisting that he's right until proven wrong and that he knows for certain what will happen. BTY can fight his own battles but it struck me as silly to play the "how do you know I don't know ___" card. Either tell us you know or stop the kindergaten mindfuck charade is all.
If he does, I'd be interested to know his knowledge and enlightenment of the inside of the PPV business, as well as how he knows other than citing Wikipedia.

I've never bought an ROH dvd or ticket, and I'll be ordering at least their first ppv. There's a lot more hardcore wrestling fans with a casual approach to something like ROH. The ROH marks will buy the dvds and see the PPV, save some of the cheapskates I suppose. Going taped, dumb, but who knows how set in stone that is or if it will keep up.

But I'd be willing to be there's plenty of wrestling fans like me and Legend who'd love to order the PPV in the comfort of their home, but can't be damned to order a dvd online or go track one down at stores, if they even are sold there which I don't think they are. It's all about access. If your product is accessible to more people, it will reach a wider audience, and the chances are the fans willing to go to the lengths they do to follow ROH will still be there.

Of course, it's not gonna garner a huge audience or boom, but it certainly will reach more eyes, and I'm not sure what the cost/profit situation with the PPV will be. Like Rob said, it may backfire but what the hell, they can make their own bed. I'll buy, but I agree it's a risk to push like ECW did.

I'll post it again

I would like to think you haven't pulled this out of your ass, but at this point you're not really leaving much of an alternative.

In an interview yesterday, Gabe said this is nowhere near the level of Barely Legal, mainly because the PPV market has changed so much. Back then it was unheard of to get on PPV if you were a wrestling company, it's a lot easier now.

The DVDs weren't available in stores mainly because of the TNA contracts, saying that their performers could appear for ROH as long as they weren't on PPV or had nationally distributed DVDs. As long as ROH sold the DVDs from their own website, they were ok. Now with TNA pulling Aries and Homicide, there are no more TNA guys on the ROH roster. National distribution is in sight now and is in the works.

I'm not exactly sure what the problem is, here. The IWC takes news articles on faith when they're from Meltzer, etc., and even Meltzer doesn't really have as solid a track record. In fact, if Rob cited DM on his "facts," it'd probably be accepted, though he doesn't cite his sources.

guys at PWInsider > Meltzer. They don't report rumors as facts, or their own opinions as facts either

Missing the point>You.

Read my user title, and you know which side of the fence I am on. It's OK think you know the facts, and think ROH is certainly doomed because they are doing something, but why the fuck can't people just enjoy the ride?

Does ROH put out a great product? Then why the fuck are people complaining that they get to see it? Order the shows, get some good wrestling into your diet, send Vince and Vince your own personal "fuck you," message (as small as it may be), and just see where it goes.

Who knows where ROH is getting money from? It's a point I brought up that has been completely overlooked because I suggested a crazy way ROH could get mainstream attention, because they're just an "indy fed", and we all know guys can't get over doing what they do for a living well, these days. ROH has got great relationships with Pro Wrestling NOAH and Dragon Gate, both companies from a climate rich of professional wrestling. I'm not sure how much money Dragon Gate has to spare, as it is much smaller, but Mitsuharu Misawa's company could have a bit of cash lying around.

Why would Pro Wrestling NOAH go out of its way to help ROH? Because they've been their American exposure for quite a long time. People seem to be in agreement that Takeshi Morishima was given the ROH World Championship, at least in part, as a friendly move to Pro Wrestling NOAH, who want to move Morishima up to the GHC Heavyweight Championship division, but aren't sure if he is ready.

As Mr. Monday Night suggested, it is unlikely the WWE would have been oblivious to ROH's ventures. I think that is probably correct, even if most mainstream entities want nothing to do with them. So perhaps they are throwing some cash their way? I'm not sure of the reliability of those WWE funding ECW offerings, but the same thing could be happening again.

If the WWE knew about ROH growing, why didn't they stop them? And don't use the "they don't care about ROH," excuse. I find it hard to believe. If you don't want someone around, you take care of them while you can. You don't wait until it is noticeable, and you don't pop the bullet into their skulls in daylight.

It's just an idea I'm throwing out there.

And Innovator's point is very relevant. ROH DVD sales are hard to gage by, because ROH doesn't have a conventional distribution deal. With ROH now being an entity seperate from TNA, they can now put their shows on DVD. Sure, anyone can order an ROH DVD over the internet, but a lot of people still don't trust internet shopping (I know I don't), and some geeks might be afraid to actually have a wrestling DVD delivered to their house.

If Ring of Honor doesn't get greedy, they could actually do quite well in the DVD market. Perhaps it's because I'm not too strung out on money, but when I saw ECW DVDs being sold for $8 at a local store, I snatched up about six of them. $8 x 6 = $48, for those not keeping track. I spent around $50 on ECW that day. If ROH keeps the prices of its DVDs down, when they appear in stores, they could make some nice sales.

And let's assume this does fail. Let's assume the PPV thing falls on its face, and they do need to break it off. It seems like the deal has only been arranged for 6 shows because it is what both sides of the fence are comfortable with. I doubt either has put themselves in a position where they will be ruined. ROH goes back to running smaller shows, less frequently. They will not lose their audience. If anything, it will grow. People might wait slightly longer between shows, hence excitement grows, and ROH will at least earn a few fans via their PPV experience.

Plus they managed to get rid of TNA, which I think ROH secretly wanted, anyway. Delirious seems to be stepping in as a possible replacement leader for The Resilience, and that was before Austin Aries was pulled. ROH can now go wider and more convenient (for some) with their DVDs.

If you're a fan of ROH, or good wrestling, just support this thing, and tell your friends about it.

*deep breath*

STRAAAAA...Awww, forget it.

You're a fucking idiot.

*walks off*

It's funny that Hero was making this same point in a TNA thread a week ago and yet then you said nothing.

What the fuck is the straw hat reference? I assume you're only trying to entertain yourself, because that's all you ever manage to do.

And it doesn't surprise me that you only pick moments where you won't look like the dick you are for being a dick.

By the way, I love the irony that someone calling someone else an idiot couldn't originally quote right. It's simple, you hit the "quote" button, and what you want to be an ass about because you have a rare moment of pathetic inspiration, comes up, all ready to go. Then you don't delete the end bit of it, because you are too eager to make a reference which, assuming by the way it alludes, isn't even your own.

Please keep walking. Come back when you get some material of your own to try and be smarmy about. And come back when you're actually a consistent human being with, you know, some levels of integrity?

This is a little bit off base, but I was under the assumption that Claudio Castagnoli signed a developmental deal with the WWE at the end of 2006?

Some Visa issue and he has been allowed to continue Indy bookings for the time beeing. Not to clear on that really.

Can I say something markish? RVD. THINK ABOUT IT.

Doesn't surprise me. I have people like him worked out. My friend is one, actually.

I think he believes he is more intellectually appreciated than he actually is. Wouldn't surprise me if he tried to wow people at parties with his "knowledge" of politics, culture, literature, or what have you (especially when drunk). None of this knowledge is first hand, mind you. They're his own amateurish opinions, formed by the beliefs of guys like Jon Stewart, Roger Ebert or H.P. Lovecraft, which he is just taking for a spin.

I don't want to sound as petty as he does with his "assaults", but it wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't have too much luck with the ladies, either. Pushes too far, tries to get away with too much "humour" (which they would find a turn off, as it is very pretentious) and he really gets nowhere, while they think what a loser he is, as he gives his mates the "thumbs up".

People like KK aren't stupid, but they are disliked, and they don't end up successful. They're too smart to be stupid, but they're too idiotic to be intelligent.

I'd love to know what he does with his life. If he is successful (not "going to be successful", currently is successful), happily married/in a relationship, I would be pleasantly surprised. Good for him, if he is.

If he's not, though, I'd laugh at his expense, because dicks like him warrant it.

There is only one way to settle this. Both of you open MS Paint.

NOW DRAW!

I have been, and I like it.

RVD isn't exactly "Mr. Technical" (which is why I think you said it was markish), but I would much rather prefer to see him jump to ROH rather than TNA.

RVD is a great bumper, and could put over guys like Brent Albright, BJ Whitmer and Takeshi Morishima.

If Mick Foley isn't under WWE contract, and he and the WWE are going through a roughish period at the time, can you imagine Mick Foley vs. Rob Van Dam in a Fight Without Honor? :drool:

DRAAAAAAAAWWWWW HAT!

:shifty:

Could be because I didn't read it.

Put some thought into it, next time you try and stretch like that.

Oh, shit....Forgot who I was asking.

LOL, god you try so hard. God bless ya.

:lol: Sultan of Spin

"Straw Man," tard.

And I love the fact that you're actually bringing up not quoting correctly.

That's actually pretty close to another strawman in and of itself. Trying to make an issue out of that. You know.

Because you're fucking stupid. And that's not about entertainment. That's about you making stupid argument.