Goddamnit! For some reason my screen keeps scrolling back up to the picture ant posted :wtf: :rant:

Good, I started a new page, SCREW YOU ANT

It's not drawn to it anymore, I can read RDD's post in peace

Granato's inexperience as a coach is no excuse. He is partly to blame for what happened. He played gritty hockey his entire career and knows better. Granato was even playing Worrel on the powerplay. These things were done to infuriate the Canucks. Of course he didn't expect for Bertuzzi to break Moore's neck (or whatever the injury is) but he knew what he was up to.

Hockey justice. Overboard.

You guys can sit there are debate things, and that's fine, don't get me wrong, Bertuzzi deserves a severe suspension. There is however alot of blame to go around.

Heres a question. I just looked on ESPN and according to Brian Burke, Bertuzzi tried to contact Moore at the hospital to apologize and whatnot. My question is, would you be willing to talk to him at that point?

I don't think I would, at least not yet. I couldn't take an apology from Bertuzzi as sincere. What would you do?

I would. Moore knows Bertuzzi wassn't trying to break his neck. The neck was an accident. also when 4 guys dog pile on you that weight doesn't help.

Yeah I'd take his call. I'd also place the call, in fact I'd show up at the hospital.

---

VANCOUVER (CP) - Colorado Avalanche forward Steve Moore, sucker-punched from behind by Canucks star Todd Bertuzzi, will miss the rest of the season with a fractured neck as bad blood led to a bad injury.



Bertuzzi, meanwhile, faces the wrath of the NHL and possibly the police.



Moore, a rookie with modest numbers for the Avs, crashed face first to the ice following Bertuzzi's punch in the third period of Colorado's 9-2 win Monday night.



The Canucks power forward landed on top of Moore, who was targeted because of a hit last month that sidelined Vancouver captain Markus Naslund with a concussion.


Police are investigating the incident, which also left Moore with a concussion. He will remain in hospital in Vancouver ``for an indefinite period of time,'' the Avs said.



``Regardless of the fact that this involves a player in the National Hockey League, this will be a routine assault investigation,'' said Const. Sarah Bloor, a spokesman for the Vancouver Police.



``Crown counsel will be responsible for making a decision as to whether or not anyone is charged.''



Bertuzzi has been suspended pending a hearing with the NHL in Toronto on Wednesday.



The league issued a statement saying executive vice-president Colin Campbell, who handles discipline for the NHL, and Bertuzzi would not comment until a disciplinary decision was reached.



The general managers of both teams held separate news conferences Tuesday. Canucks GM Brian Burke said Bertuzzi had planned to meet the media but was ``too distraught to come here today.''



``It's been too emotionally difficult for him,'' he said.



``Right now he's very upset about what happened. In terms of the incident, he's remorseful and relieved that Mr. Moore's injuries at this point appear, that a full recovery should be possible.''



Bertuzzi had tried to contact Moore at the hospital, in addition to trying to speak to the Avalanche trainer, Burke said.



The Canucks GM, while wishing Moore ``nothing but the best in terms of recovering from this injury,'' declined comment on the incident himself.



Colorado GM Pierre Lacroix was also guarded.



``We hope as an organization that Steve will recover,'' Lacroix said, adding more medical tests are planned.



``All I know that his spirit, under the circumstance, is good,'' Lacroix added.



He avoided offering any more medical information, saying that was best left to doctors.



Lacroix also did not want to talk about a criminal investigation, saying he just wanted his player to get well.



``I don't want to think of anything else,'' he said.



It was in Vancouver that Marty McSorley, then with the Boston Bruins, was charged with assault after knocking out then-Canuck Donald Brashear with a stick to the head in February 2000.



McSorley, suspended by the NHL for a year, was convicted of assault and given an 18-month conditional discharge.



Moore's injuries are extensive.



``Exams have revealed that Steve sustained a concussion and a cervical injury (neck fracture) and will be out at least for the remainder of the season,'' head Colorado trainer Pat Karns said in a statement.



``He also suffered deep facial lacerations and abrasions to the forehead, right cheek and upper lip.''



As soon as his condition allows it, the 25-year-old from Windsor, Ont., will be transferred to Craig Hospital in Denver, the statement continued.



On a team stacked with stars, Moore is a checking forward who has four goals and seven assists in 57 games this season, 13th in scoring on the Avs. He has 37 penalty minutes.



Bertuzzi is a bona-fide star, a native of Sudbury, Ont., who signed a $27.8-million US four-year contract in October. While known for his big hits - his hard-hitting checks were featured in a TV commercial for Gatorade - he usually steers away from fights.



He has 17 goals and 43 assists, second best on the Canucks. He also has 122 penalty minutes.



Bertuzzi was suspended 10 games two years ago for coming off the bench to join an on-ice fight.



But bad blood between Colorado and Vancouver, currently No. 2 and No. 4 in the West, had been simmering since Moore's hit on Naslund during a game Feb. 16 in Denver. Naslund suffered a concussion that cost him three games.



Moore wasn't penalized for the hit and the league took no action.



Vancouver coach Marc Crawford called Moore's hit ``a cheap shot by a young kid on a captain, the leading scorer in the league.''



The two teams met in Denver on March 3 but there was little action in a 5-5 tie. That changed Monday night as the score became lopsided in Colorado's favour.



Asked how far over the line Bertuzzi's hit was, Colorado coach Tony Granato said: ``We have too much to offer in our game for something like this. Does it cross the line? Of course it does.''



But Lacroix said the NHL would do the right thing.



``I have full trust they will do the appropriate action.''



The Avs GM also said he had not heard from the Canucks.



``I haven't heard from nobody,'' he said, adding Bertuzzi's agent had made a call to request information.



The Moore injury is the latest black eye for the NHL, following a brawl-filled game last Friday between the Ottawa Senators and Philadelphia Flyers, which set an NHL record of 419 penalty minutes.



And the league will not be pleased that the Bertuzzi bloodbath tarnished NHL trade deadline day - normally a dream day for hockey junkies.



``This is not the way we're going to make people love the sport,'' said Lacroix, who refused to be drawn into further debate.



The Denver Post called the incident ``an ugly piece of frontier justice.''



``Even with the animosity between Colorado and Vancouver seemingly building by the second, nobody expected it to come to this,'' said the Rocky Mountain News.



Bertuzzi received a match penalty for his hit on the Avalanche centre Monday.



The two teams don't meet again during the regular season.



Colorado cancelled a planned skate Tuesday morning at GM Place. The team was to fly to Edmonton later in the day for a game Wednesday against the Oilers.


http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=75668

Bertuzzi is introducing Gaborik to the fans in attendence

Gaborik is a good guy.

greedy

<font color=8307ff><b>Yeah I'm a Canucks fan but what Bertuzzi did wasn't cool. :n: Like some other people said, he could've easily beat up Moore face to face anyway, there wasn't really much point.</font></b>

<font color=seablue><i>I don't really know what to say. There's been so much said in this thread already that might make what I write seem redundant but I'll try my best.

There were a few things wrong with that game last night that made me lose a lot of respect for the Canucks organization and for me, someone who calls Vancouver my adopted home, is a lot to say.

Not only was there the Bertuzzi incident, but there was the May incidents. He was flapping his yap at Aebischer and for what? What was he going to do, fight him? And then Crawford's reaction to the whole incident was far from shocked, again showing the calousness and assinine behaviour that caused me to hate the Avs until him and The Ego left.

Morcheeba is speaking a lot like my boss' wife did when she was visiting today and she is heavily involved with hockey. I was mentioning that it's time Bertuzzi's head was on a platter and she was telling me that it's hockey, but it's far from that. Think of the following items:

- The original hit, Moore on Naslund, was not called and therefore was iffy at most. It may seem dirty in some people's minds but obviously the league, and the refs didn't think so. And for Crawford to sit there and bitch about some player hitting "his star," is disgusting. If he hit a third line player like that, would it have made it any different?

- Following that game, many players were calling for Moore's head. This is called threats which would make the attack thought out.

- Bertuzzi is seen chasing Moore, tugging at his jersey. You see Moore refusing to turn his head and fighting him. Obviously Bertuzzi is not taking no for an answer and why is that? During tonight's Calgary-Edmonton game, Olijwa is trying to get Laraque to fight and he just keeps in the play. Such as was last night so Bertuzzi should've skated away but instead - sucker punches him and falls on top or him/pushes his head into the ice. It depends on how you look at the tape.

- If the neck break was caused by Bertuzzi or a player from either team jumping into the foray...it's still Bertuzzi's fault for causing that injury. Think...if Bertuzzi didn't sucker punch him, Moore would've have been on the ice in the first place and his players wouldn't have helped him out.

And I need to ask - Why shouldn't this be investigated by the Vancouver police? It was an assault. This wasn't a fight, this was not a mere check into the boards. A player was struck and knocked out. What benefit does either team have from a chickenshit move like that? I can even be backed by hockey players here in that the only moves on the ice are done to get to the puck and score. If there's a fight, it's to get a rise out of the team. A hit like that, only proves you're the idiot.

In all, I think Bertuzzi should start practicing a different kind of swing - his golf swing. His suspension will reflect his actions of that evening and his past and that will be a year. And what is going to happen when he returns? Would you want a player like that?</i></font>

if he isn't suspended for the rest of the year, than the NHL is a bigger joke than i thought.

and heyman, to quote u on your original post. The Leafs are 3-1 vs the sens, so i have no idea where you pulled that from.

Gaborik eats glass

He needs to be suspended for at least 1 year because I just saw the hit for the first time today, just a couple of minutes ago. When Moore was going down Bertuzzi clearly was throwing him down to the ground and even when he was on the ground he pushed on his neck again.


Needless to say when the forum breaks the news of this, there is going to be a lot of controversy. Also, I believe there should be a criminal investigation in this because it is bullshit. He deliberately tried to injure him. If someone did that in the street (just a random 2 people) would the one who did that be kept out of jail??? No! I believe he needs to be suspended and brought in front of a court.

Just an act of cowardice that's my opinion.

yeah but there wont be an NHL next year so it wont matter

In that case the Avs shoulda been coming over the boards to get at that mother ****er.

why? The Avs have a great chance of winning the Cup this year. They shouldnt throw it all away because someone took a cheap shot on one of their rookies

oh yeah Steve Moore is from Windsor just FYI

See the NHL should be smart here. They should suspend him for the rest of the season. Then they should say 1 year of playing time starting at the beginning of next year. Therefore if they lockout he should have to start the supsension 1 year after they lockout. That's my theory.

then he'll go to the WHA

Criminal Charges in hockey games are for the most part absolutely ridiculous. I didn't support it with McSorley and I won't support it now.

Yeah, but you can't bodycheck someone into a store window either. Cause that's assault

Or shoot a puck at someone's face who is walking down Main St. Cause that's assault with a weapon


Sports are different than regualr life, there is a certain voluntary assumption of risk that is made by participants.

I am not saying that Moore should have assumed he was gonna get his neck broken, by any means, but consider the notion of the voluntary assumption of risk.

He got sucker punched from behind and driven into the ice because he wouldn't fight the pussy. Honestly, could you be any more cowardly. Sports are a different life yes. But if your pissed with someone you talk to them man to man (or woman to woman, not to offend any of the chicks here) and fight like that. Not suckering someone from behind. And about this phone call where he is trying to get a hold of Moore. Dont get ahold of him by phone. If your truly not trying to be a pussy, then go see him in the hospital.


I'm not pissed at you samchina, just pissed in general of the whole situation.

Really? I know a couple people with the last name Moore.. wonder if there's any relation.


-edit- this was in response to Supreme saying he was from Windsor :o Didn't realize there was 2 pages when I replied

Yeah man, no worries, it's all for the sake of discussion. :y:

Put it this way - as people jumped ontop of Bertuzzi and Moore, Bertuzzi was winding up to punch him repetitively....

Bertuzzi was going to punch the crap out of a guy with a broken neck - that's bullshit.

<font color="#ccffcc">

to my knowledge, criminal charges have only been persued in hockey when a stick had been used in an incident. also the nhl usually just punishes the action itself and not the result of said action. i'd say the prescedent had been set in the matt johnson case years back but then again then nhl is hardly ever consistent and since there is no hard rules as far as how long a player must get suspended for whatever particular infraction, it's left open to interpretation and of course inconsistencies.

</font>

If I'm not mistaking him and his older/younger brother both play in the NHL and both played for Harvard.

My stance on this has changed a little, I sitll think the NHL should throw the book, desk, chair at him,

But, I'm not against the police getting involved, not that I don't think this is worthy, but it opens a can of worms for future situations.

He ****ed up his vertabrae pretty bad and had a concussion.

They said Bertuzzi wouldn't comment on the matter and got his agent to issue an apology.

What a ****up

Oi just read the whole thread :o

From what I saw on ESPN, Bertuzzi suckerpunched him and then Moore went limp and fell down (draw your own conclusions on what caused the injury), and Bertuzzi jumped on him trying to do more damage. Then Moore's teamate jumped on him to try to get him off but one (or two?) more Canucks jumped on him.

SO, let me get this straight, it's the coach's fault for a guy being a cheap artist? Right.

Somehow I don't see the reasoning in that. Blame one man's moronic deed on the coach for not taking him out.

Also here's a link from ESPN.

TORONTO -- Vancouver All-Star Todd Bertuzzi faced a hearing with NHL officials Wednesday to talk about his hit that left Avalanche forward Steve Moore with a broken neck.

Moore, who was hospitalized in Vancouver after Monday's game, will miss the rest of the season. Bertuzzi was suspended indefinitely.


The hearing was delayed until Wednesday afternoon to give both sides more time to prepare, said Gary Meagher, an NHL spokesman.


British Columbia Solicitor General Rich Coleman and Vancouver police are investigating, the second time in four years police have looked into an on-ice hit at an NHL game in the city.


"It doesn't matter what the score was, what the time was, what the place was, what the history was, there's no room in our game for that," Colorado coach Tony Granato said.


Bertuzzi slugged Moore in the side of the head late in the 9-2 Colorado victory. He hit Moore from behind and drove his head into the ice. Moore landed face-first -- with the 245-pound Bertuzzi on top of him -- and lay in a pool of blood for several minutes before he was removed on a stretcher.


"All I'm concerned with is he regain his health," said Pierre Lacroix, Avalanche president and general manager. "All legal matters and all medical matters, I don't want to think about."


Bertuzzi's punch appeared to be retaliation for an open-ice hit Moore delivered to Canucks captain Markus Naslund last month, knocking him out for three games. Vancouver players vowed to get even with Moore for that hit, which wasn't penalized. Enforcer Brad May spoke of a "bounty."


The Canucks didn't go after Moore in last week's rematch in Denver, a 5-5 tie attended by NHL commissioner Gary Bettman. Naslund said he didn't believe Bertuzzi planned to hurt Moore.


"He tried to do something he thought was right for his team, to challenge someone," Naslund said. "He wanted to make a point that you don't go out and hit our players."


Bertuzzi's punch and its aftermath sent shock waves through the league, with players condemning his actions and calling for tough penalties.


"As NHL players, we get fired up and sometimes do stupid things on the ice, but nobody wants to see injuries to the extent of Moore's," Detroit Red Wings veteran Brendan Shanahan said.


Even the NHL's so-called goons were appalled.


"It doesn't matter what your name is, this is not right," said the Calgary Flames' Krzysztof Oliwa, a well-traveled fighter. "This is not hockey, this is being cheap."


Wayne Gretzky said it was an example of something that can happen in a sport that often turns violent.


"It's a very emotional game and you can quickly lose your temper and lose your focus," the Hall of Famer said in Lakeland, Fla., where he was watching the Toronto-Detroit game.


"What happened was wrong, and I am sure that nobody feels worse about it than Todd."


In February 2000, former Boston Bruin Marty McSorley was charged for hitting then-Vancouver Canuck Donald Brashear with his stick. McSorley was convicted of assault with a weapon, but he received an 18-month conditional discharge, meaning no jail time and no criminal record after probation.


The league suspended him for a year, ending his 17-year NHL career.


When Moore's condition improves, he'll be transferred to Craig Hospital in Denver and evaluated by neurosurgeons, the Avalanche said.


"Steve knows he has the support of the entire Avalanche family and hockey fans throughout the world," Lacroix said.


Vancouver general manager Brian Burke said Bertuzzi was "too distraught" to attend Tuesday's news conference, but the Canucks right wing tried to contact Moore at the hospital.


"That, to me, shows the sincerity more than any statement that we could issue," said Burke, who will fly to Toronto to be with Bertuzzi at his hearing Wednesday.


Bertuzzi was an All-Star last season when he was fifth in the league in scoring. This year, he was an All-Star again and has 60 points, 23rd in the league.


"If most people knew how upset Todd was by the result of what happened they would have a different view on things," said teammate Trevor Linden, also president of the NHL Players' Association.

Come on Cheeba

If it was Thornton that did it, I would be the first to admit what he did was completely bullshit
This IS hockey, but cheap-shotting a guy like he did was completely wrong. He DESERVES jail time. He won't get it, but he deserves it. Moore has a broken ****ing NECK.

I know Bertuzzi didn't mean for it to go that far but it did and he has to pay.

He just wrecked Moore's career and laid a huge blow to his because some say that he might get the rest of this season and all of next season (whenever it is). So if there is a holdout then he'll be 2 + years older then he was.

He also ruined Vancouver's shot at the cup. Without him, they can't be considered a top team with the Avs and Wings ect., NO WAY can they win without him.

So, Yash, let's say in baseball, a pitcher is planning on intentionally hitting a batter, in retaliation for what the other team's pitcher did in the inning before.

The pitch gets away from him, and hits the batter in the head, giving him a concussion, and fracturing his skull.

Does he deserve jail time?

This is my concern, where does "intent" come in and who decides...

Anyone know what happened there was a college or minor league pitcher who had a batter timing his warmup and threw at him (while he was in the on-deck circle and hurt the guy bad). That being said, the "normal" would have been to throw at the guy when he was at bat.

But, who decide intent.

What about a fight, where one player gets the better and the other finally turtles, once the other person is in a defensive position it goes from "self-defense" to "attack"...

Thats the only reason I'm not keen on seeing the cops getting involved (yeah, I switched on this one).

Bertuzzi still meant to hurt him, no doubt about it. You can't compare throwing and punching though; one you have total control of and the other you just don't

<font color=seablue><i>Not too sure on the older brother playing in the NHL, but I do know that the Moore brothers are from Harvard...

Just thought I'd add that to the discussion :y:</i></font>

I believe that Moore has two brothers, one with the Rangers the other with the Penguins.

Yeah, I saw that picture in the Sun this morning at work. The one on the Pens had something happen to him (I forget what it is), so he's not in the NHL anymore.

I think that TSN said he had concusion problems for his career