I agreed with you on it not destroying Orton. But given the outcome and manner of it, nothing makes him look like a threat to HHH. This is my point.

Not even beating him cleanly for the title?

duh, of course it's collectively. With 3 brands and 3 shows, you'd be a moron to think one guy is going to get it done. My point was that Orton still is not on the level of those guys and his matches really aren't a draw without those guys on the other side. But he definately could be

So you don't think this takes anything at all away from Orton?

God, you people will find any reason to bitch about Triple H. It isn't 2003 anymore.

At this current point in time. Also, with regards to RAW tomorrow

That might have something to do with the fact he just isn't as good as those guys. Orton has improved 1000% since 04, but he isn't as good of a wrestler as any of the true main eventers.

lol, how ironic

you're right, this isn't 2003, yet the guy is still walking out of Mania with the belt.

So why put it off? If you're going to make the star, why not do it at the biggest show of the year? That's like having Austin job to HBK and winning the title at Judgement Day.

I'm not arguing your logic, I follow where you're coming from, just questioning the E's logic

I wouldnt even be that upset with Orton losing if it wasnt for history. HHH has proven time and time again that Orton should not make him look weak in any matter. HHH has beaten him on numerous ppvs. And the time that Orton actually did beat HHH for the titie, was when HHH already had 3 matches that night. Orton can only recover so many times from getting buried. Its becoming a pattern that whenever Orton gets built up, he will get knocked down.

He is still one of the best in the business and a draw, so what is there to complain about? Other than Evil Paul booking himself to win the main event because we all know Triple H really runs the show!

I agree that Orton winning would have been a positive, but this isn't the end of Orton's career or any chance of him being "the man" since I honestly don't believe Orton is talented enough to be "the man".

It is called being a good heel (now), or a shitty babyface (04).

No. Heels are in the buisness to lose.

Randy Orton has no more taken away from him than Andre had taken away from him after Wrestlemania 3...

or Savage after Wrestlemania 5...

or Flair after Wrestlemania 8...

or Yokozuna after Wrestlemania 9 & 10...

or Michaels after Wrestlemania 11 & 14...

or The Rock after Wrestlemania 15...

or Angle after Wrestlemania 19...

or Triple H after Wrestlemania 20, 21, & 22...

or Edge after Wrestlemania 24.

QFT

There's a world of diffrence between Austin at Wrestlemania XIV and Orton at Wrestlemania XXV.

That big difference is that Austin was a face Orton is a heel...

Heels lose on the big stage its the rule of the buisness.

I understand where you are coming from, but can we agree that Mania is the biggest PPV of the year?

They book Orton to win the Rumble, they book Orton to take out the McMahons. They book HHH to come back and avenge the McMahons.

To me, Orton has to come out looking like the winner, and that doesn't have to mean actually winning the match. But he should of at least been made to look above HHH on the biggest stage

And you're right, Mania does not end things anymore, but it's still Mania. And when they seemed intent on giving Orton a huge push, this match really could of helped progress that push on a big way. It hindered it....yet again, rather then helping it. That's all I'm saying

A. You agreed he got buried but then say he loses nothing from it. Ok.....

B. You're looking too deep into it. The main idea is if you're going to make the star do it on the big stage. Perhaps they could have built Orton up as a tweener or maybe teased the turn, I dk how they should have done it.

I would agree with that, but who was one of the first people to break that tradition of faces winning??? HHH in 2000. But even The Rock was booked better that year due to the McMahons screwing him over.

I just thought that should be isolated...

Big Bad Triple H hadn't won at Wrestlemania since 2003... yeah 6 years ago.

and yes, all you guys are correct in saying this isn't the end of Orton's career. But the bookers or whomever need to start getting off thier asses and start putting guys on the levels of HBK, HHH and Taker, because they won't be around for much longer.

He still didn't put Batista over. Batista could be one of the biggest stars in WWE...oh wait

I never said that he got buried I agreed with a quote by Xero which had more than just the "he got buried" part which was the part I was agreeing with.

I'm with LC on this is part of the problem

The business 101 is that established guys put over the yuong stars to help them gain credibilty, we don't see much of it here, sadly

Storyline-wise you can say HHH is supposed to win to avenge what happened with his family. But in the early part of the storyline, they said Orton needed to avenge what happened in 2004, and the broken collarbone from last year. Wrestlemania is supposed to be the place where the person chasing the title finally wins it, but that did not happen now.

And now name me what other heel won in the main even of Wrestlemania...

Steve Austin the very next year at X-Seven (nobody bitched then) and John Cena in 2006 and 2007

The Xero quote:

Although like you said, if he doesn't go over in the near future, you'll join us in our "furiousity"

See you in 2 or 3 months? lol

I think all you kliq guys are missing the point entirely. People aren't hating on the finish just because Triple H won. You said yourself, this isn't 2003 anymore. People don't like it, because Triple H winning, really doesn't accomplish anything. Orton has been a great heel the past year, but he still doesn't seem like a threat on the same level as HHH, Cena, HBK, and the other top guys. Beating HHH at mania would have changed that.

And yeah, the feud will continue, and he will probably beat HHH for the title, but it won't have the same effect. As WWKD said, mania makes stars. It pushes people to a new level, in a way that other ppv's can't.

If you can't see that....if you can't see that people are dissapointed with the backwards thinking booking of the finish, and not triple h himself, then you need to get your head out of his ass.

Austin went in face, to be fair


Cena can't even be judged in those terms, Vince books him as a face. Most of us fans however treat him otherwise

Austin was the face going in to that match.

John Cena was supposed to be the face at least in those matches.

I agree with that.

I have stated that Orton winning would have been a good thing (hell I was shocked he didn't), but points have been brought up that this is the end of Randy Orton and somehow it is always Triple H who screws him out of a big win and now he has been robbed of the career making "WrestleMania moment" win despite him beating Cena and HHH just last year clean.

I'm going to say this one more time...

Randy Orton defeated John Cena AND Triple H at Wrestlemania 24.

CLEANLY!

That was his rub...

That was where his star was made...

On the biggest stage of them all.

Exactly.

yeah has everyone forgotten WM 24?

EXACTLY!

It isn't Vince's fault Randy Orton can't take advantage of all the oppurtunities to be "the man" he has been given.

Winning a triple threat match, and beating triple h one-on-one, especially the way the triple h/orton fued has been booked, are two very different things.

Look at all the guys who won the title at mania in a triple threat match. Mysterio, Benoit. wow, they sure stayed in main event for a long time, didn't they? I think they both were fighting for the us title 6 months after they won at mania.


So no juan. Not EXACTLY.

I will agree to a point. But that was not the main event, and triple threats are booked to which anyone can get a pinfall. This was a bigger match situation, and Orton didnt get it done.

But even last year, Orton was not getting as big of a rub as he was this year. As champion, he cheated or barely made it through his matches. Jeff was really the only one he beat clean.

Now this year, Orton has much more momentum. He wins the Royal Rumble, he takes out the McMahon family, hes never looked stronger. Just something like this seems to kill his credibilty. Not to mention his past with HHH proves that he cant beat HHH.

He's been outstanding the past year. And to my knowledge he hasn't shit in anyone's personal belongings lately. So what exactly is the justification for that comment?