Oh how things have changed.

First. Place.

Hey good call bro

Chi Sox are fucked. They got to deal with the Twins, while The Tribe plays KC again. Only 2.5 games back if they hang on tonight. We may see a change there as well in a few days.

Ryan Howard is the man

KC is playing better and Twins still have a AAA offense. I like the White Sox to win the division but by 1.5 or so

god tonight sucked.

what a difference a day makes.

Radke and Stewart are both done playing, but the White Sox aren't going to walk over the Twins, they have to face Santana, who always dominates, and they haven't been playing superb ball lately either...

Needless to say, I think the White Sox will still make the playoffs as well, because either the Yankees or Red Sox is going to lose that last series, and with a race this close it will be hard to make the playoffs while losing the final series.

My gut feeling says the Houston Astro's are gunna be the Champs this year. Mark it down.

Fenway Park 9/30-10/2 Best of 3, Winner take all, Looser goes home.

Well, at least after tonight the "1/2 game" will be done.

The Sox get a well needed night off. 30 games in 30 days, I think they went like 17-13.

Yanks are finishing the season with 20 in a row.

The sox have one of, if not the best home record this year? (thought I heard they had the best)

Sox have last 7 at home, Yanks have last 7 on the road.

Sox in Baltimore, then Toronto and NYY at home.
NYY Host Toronto and in Baltimore and at Boston.

This is gonna be fun.

I hope they go into it tied, wanna see a "best of 3".

Fenway Park 9/30-10/2 Best of 3, Winner take all, Looser goes home.

Well, at least after tonight the "1/2 game" will be done.

The Sox get a well needed night off. 30 games in 30 days, I think they went like 17-13.

Yanks are finishing the season with 20 in a row.

The sox have one of, if not the best home record this year? (thought I heard they had the best)

Sox have last 7 at home, Yanks have last 7 on the road.

Sox in Baltimore, then Toronto and NYY at home.
NYY Host Toronto and in Baltimore and at Boston.

This is gonna be fun.

I hope they go into it tied, wanna see a "best of 3".

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/column...son&id=2168811

I like the first paragraph

16 less HR's, 40 less RBI's then David Ortiz.

He does have a BA .08 better then Ortiz.

If there's enough problems giving it to Ortiz cause he's a DH, how do you give it to a DH with worse stats?

VEL seriously this is one of your dumbest, least thought out posts ever. Did you ever think that it's possible that Ortiz could have a few more at-bats than Hafner? Because he has 115 more. If Hafner had 115 more AB's, don't you think he just might have more RBI's? Did you consider any stats other than the 3 listed, all 3 completely useless?

Some other stats
OPS
David Ortiz: 1.012
Travis Hafner: 1.008

OBP
DO: .396
TH: .412

Ortiz has better HR/PA and is a better power hitter. Should we give him the MVP because of that? If their OPS are identical why does it matter? And Ortiz plays in the park that was rated #1 in Park Factor for Hitters last year while Hafner plays in #25.

But more importantly, where would the Indians be without Hafner? Where would the Red Sox be without Ortiz? It's safe to say the Red Sox would be in much better shape Ortiz-less. They would be worse obviously but they still have Damon, Manny, Renteria, etc. Who anchors Cleveland's offense without Hafner? He is their best power threat and only legitamate #4 hitter. Without him, they would not be anywhere near the White Sox or the Wild Card.

Hafner gets my MVP vote before Ortiz.

Hafner is obviously the man but I think you're understating how clutch Ortiz has been for the Red Sox. Yes, without him they'd still have Manny, Damon, etc. but none of those guys have been nearly as clutch. My vote would rest on who gets his team into the playoffs.

Before people go off on me, I'd vote for A-Rod if the Yanks get into the playoffs before both Ortiz and Hafner.

A-Rod is probably still my guy too, but that was just an interesting article.

Yeah Hafner has been unbelievable. I was very surprised he wasn't listed in the MVP talks. If he would have been healthy all year, we might not be having this "debate".

Phillies down by 1 in the Wildcard :cool:

Yep, missed looking at the AB's assumed with his name coming up he had played all year. The fact that he didn't does change the numbers but it also changes his qualification for MVP.

Simply, he hasn't been there all season to help his team.

Ortiz does and has put the sox over the top, he Wins games for them all the time, and not the "8-0 garbage time home run".

That being said, as much as I'd lover to give it to Ortiz, I'd still now give the nod to A-rod because of the field play.

So they vote when the season is over, if the AL East comes down to the last 3 games, and A-rod or Ortiz his 1 or 2 game winnng HR's think that will influence people?

What if the Yanks don't? If they miss the playoffs would you still vote for him?

So, what happens in a multie tie?

I've heard a few rumors but not an exact rule.

Let's say the Sox and Yanks tie for the AL East
The Indians and White Sox Tie for the AL Central.

The 4 teams have the same records.

I've heard 2 things.

1) The 2 divison teams play each other in a playoff to decide the Divison, and then losers then play each other for the Wild Card.

2) The divison is decided by head to head record and the two non-div winners play each other for the Wild Card.

Anyone have more info?

That is ridiculous. Hafner can't help that he was injured.

So if Ortiz missed 2 weeks and Hafner played the whole season you would give the MVP to Hafner before Ortiz, right VEL? Of course not, that argument is retarded.

Both are excellent candidates but the Indians are barely a .500 they'd be much better off than Cleveland.

Hafner Sept numbers: 10, 24, 1.203
Ortiz Sept numbers: 10, 22, 1.152

You don't have to play the whole season to be considered. Shannon Stewart got votes when he was on the Twins for a half season because he singlehanded brought them back into the playoff race. The Red Sox aren't some magnificent powerhouse this season, just because Ortiz has good numbers doesn't automatically make him the MVP.

No Miz, your math is retarded.

1) 115 AB's in 2 weeks, that's one hell of a 2 weeks, Did they play triple headers?

2) He's having a better Sept, a month that isn't over and a last I checked the season started in April?


I never said he shouldn't be considered, I said I'd give it to Ortiz or A-rod before him.

getting "some votes" doesn't mean he won MVP and doesn't mean in my opinion he should be, nor does it mean he deserves it more then Ortiz or A-rod.

You're right, the Red Sox aren't some magnificent powerhouse, which is more the reason for Ortiz.

Hey, you guys have your opinions, I have mine.

While September is a huge month, what A-rod had better numbers then he has now, same team, except say A-rod has 5-10 more HR's, 20 more RBI's and oh yeah, the Yanks are 10 games up and already clinched?

So are you two now telling me if your not in a "tight pennent race" you can't be MVP?

If you don't help your team into the playoffs you can't be MVP?

This is a joke, right VEL? Are you actually this dumb? Have you ever looked up stats or facts or anything to back up what you are talking about?

TRAVIS HAFNER MISSED TWO WEEKS DUE TO INJURY. THAT IS AN UNDISPUTABLE FACT. A 5 minute search of MLB.com or ESPN will find this to be true. Obviously not all of the 115 AB's came in those 2 weeks, he has had various days off throughout the season. Boston also has a better offense than Cleveland, hence more AB's for their hitters.

THE WHOLE POINT OF THE SEPTEMBER NUMBERS WAS THAT THEY ARE ALMOST IDENTICAL. Hafner does not have "better numbers". 2 more RBI's and about .100 higher OPS. Ortiz can co 4-4 HR 2B tomorrow and surpass Hafner's numbers. Hafner and Ortiz are both having amazing Septembers, the most important month. Yes, the season does start in April. I already posted their season stats which you ignored.

Are you ok VEL?

I'm fine, clearly being a Seattle fan has you confused about sports.

You brought up the 115 AB and the 2 weeks.

Yes, September CAN be important, but what if a team is in a crappy divison and has things wrapped up by September 1st and their star player leads the league or top 3 in offense, good defense even gold glove and has won many games with his offense. Does that player not get MVP because they maybe had a bad September when there was nothing on the line?

Really, keep repeating yourself all you want, I understand you don't have much to talk about with the Mariners, Seahawks, Sonics... So, keep going.

But I still give the award to Ortiz or A-rod before Hafner.

What does Seattle have to do with anything? I love when posters are clearly losing arguments to me and start to talk about the Mariners even if there is no relation.

Let's break this down:
1. David Ortiz has 115 more at bats than Travis Hafner.
2. Travis Hafner missed 2 weeks in July with a face injury. This missed time cause him to miss probably 50-60 at bats.
3. Travis Hafner has had several days off throughout the season which has caused him to have even less at-bats than Ortiz.
4. Nowhere did I state that all of 115 at-bats came in the 2 weeks. You assumed that, then put your brain on double-duty and made a clever crack about triple headers.
5. Part of your argument for Ortiz being better was that he had more HR's and RBI's. By your logic, Brad Wilkerson has been a better power hitter than Barry Bonds this year.
6. I then brought up the stats OBP and OPS which are averages and therefore not penalizing to someone with less AB's. You had no response to these stats.
7. You stated that you would give it to Ortiz over Hafner because "[Hafner] has not been there all year to help his team". I asked you this question: If David Ortiz missed 2 weeks due to injury like Travis Hafner had, would you then select Travis Hafner as your MVP? Would you consider Ortiz not a worthy candidate because he wasn't there all year to help his team? I'm still waiting for an answer.

This applies to neither Hafner, Ortiz, nor Rodriguez so I'm not sure why you're asking me this but I'll answer anyway. I would vote a guy MVP if he had a shitty September but his team had wrapeed up the division like then, but only if he was the catalyst when the team took the huge lead. If the Red Sox had a 15 game lead on the Yankees entering Sept and Ortiz hit .210 in Sept I would not take it away from him, granted that he had a monster stretch and led the team when Boston got that 15 game lead.

Yawn. Who was better last year, Sonics or Celtics? Yeah. And the Seahawks made the playoffs last year and are in a good position to this year. Am I not entitled to an opinion if 1 of the 3 teams I like is bad? Another failed attempt at being funny with a cheap shot. You are dumb.

Ffffffuck da Rangers

lol Buck is an asshole. He rolled over for the Angels and is managing this series like the playoffs because he is an A's hater.

Miz, that's a shitty thing to say. The players wouldn't respect him and he'd get fired if that were the case. Players don't lie down and if they thought their manager was trying to make them loose they would be a revolt.

I don't think they were trying to lose. I think they were giving an average effort against the Angels and are trying really hard to beat the A's.

Bing, bing, bing... winner...

Give the guy a cupie doll.

You're the jerk who started with the name calling like it somehow made your point, then when I lower to your level and return a few shots you cry. Seriously, do you need a crying towel?

and The Sonics are a good team because they had a better record then the Celtics? So, then that would make the seahawks a bad team because they did worse then the Pats?

Anyway, you finally seemed to find a clue in that quote.

You are entitled to your opinion, which has been my point for the last couple of posts, but you've been too busy trying to take cheap shots and slip in name calling to read what I said.

It's my opinon, I'm not saying he's not qualafied, I'm saying that in my opinion, I'd give it to Ortiz or A-rod before him.

So clearly, since it's not ok for me to have my opinion, then my answer to your question is "NO", you're not entitled to an opinion.

Where did I "cry" VEL? Combatting your incorrect comments with fact is crying? I guess I've been crying this whole thread then.

LOL WHAT? We're talking about the 2005 season right? Do you watch basketball? The Sonics not only had a better record in a much tougher conference but advanced to the second round in said conference. The Celtics were a first round exit against a #6 seed who lacked their best player. Yes, the Sonics were a good team. Not because they had a better record than the Celtics. They won their division and advanced to the second round, losing only to the team that won the NBA Finals. The Sonics were a good team.

I used the words "bad" or "good" nowhere. I simply said that Sonics > Celtics. And obviously Pats > Hawks. That doesn't mean the Hawks were bad they were just much shittier than the Pats.

Yes you're entitled to your opinion, you have provided no support for it which is why you're looking dumb here. You originally said that Hafner had worse stats than Ortiz, then when I provided meaningful stats to combat your pointless ones you didn't respond. Then you said Hafner couldn't be MVP because he wasn't there to help his team. I asked you if Ortiz missed the time Hafner did would you vote for someone else. You didn;t respond to that either.

I'm sure in your response you will flame me or say I'm crying or whatever, but I want to make a special request you answer this question this time. I'll even put it in bold for you.

If David Ortiz missed 2 weeks due to injury like Travis Hafner did, would you then not select Ortiz as your MVP?

We already know you are a homer, but if the answer is no, you are a hypocrite.

Come on D-Rays

Really Miz, I think I need to go back to calling you the wiz for awhile, cause you're really to pissy.

you flame me, and then accuse me of it... you make comments then when they're thrown back at you, you dance.

anyway, just so you'll shut up already (christ, you're worse then RP).

If Ortiz & Hafner swapped stats, I would give it to Hafner over Ortiz.

Anything else?

lol mets are back at 500. GJ

God Cano is like the shittiest 2B ever. He looks like he could turn out to be a good hitter but he is such a defensive liability it isnt worth it.

woah, missed a lot of talk in here this weekend.

Yea Cano is a shit 2nd baseman defensively, but the Yanks always seem to attract these guys for some reason. He's gonna be a great hitter though and if they work with him a lot at 2nd, he'll be fine. I just don't understand how you can play professional baseball and be a shit fielder.

Huge loss for the Indians today, Now only .5 ahead in the WC.

Fucking Cano won it for the Yanks today though. I don't mind the Yankees, I like Jeter, Matsui, Posada, Williams so it's hard to hate them. But this Cano dude, please. :n: