Which is contradicted by record intetest from advertisers. More demand means higher price. WWE knows this increase in intetest is happening, so they will likely ask for more. On top of that you have a lot of cable networks looking for programming that will raise their average. WWE even with the recent decline would still increase the average for the majority of cable networks. In the end, their fees should at least stay the same, if not increase.

The more intetesting thing to me will be do they lock in long term this time around. A lot of people are predicting a decline in TV rights fees across the board in the next decade as viewing habits change.

Yeah, and Cynick argues that it's WWE "slowly" building him up. That's absurd. He hasn't even won another singles title. Yeah, it's slow if you consider the fact that Vince's first attempt at making Roman a world champ/main eventer never took off because it was rejected so blatently before it started. Instead of trying to build Roman up in between he just decides to wait a while without having Roman successfully get more over before basically trying the same thing again.

At the end of the day, it looks to me like the plan was always to get the title on Rollins. I think they decided it made more sense long term to avoid having Brock lose, and get the belt on Rollins. That way you still have the story of Reigns finally getting to the top of the mountain and you could still sell Brock vs Reigns as unfinished business.

But the mistake they made was involving Daniel Bryan. That hurt Reigns a great deal.

Think 2017 is when the clause in the current contract comes up. Sort of like TNA's deal with Destination America but with the WWE and not USA being the ones to opt out.

Investors might try to force Vince out for real if he fails or lies about getting a massive deal again. Stocks still haven't fully recovered from that blunder and the Network being well under what the WWE kept hyping.

Someone who can actually connect with fans. Roman is not a tier guy and I don't believe he will be as long as he's playing John Cena 2.0 . The guy has potential to be " the guy" just not at the moment. Guys like Cesaro, Ambrose, Owens, and Ziggler are more deserving in my opinion. Reigns is being force fed and he just comes off as a phony.

I answered YOUR question to someone else.

The point was that despite Reigns selling a lot of merch (to kids), most people who have been long time viewers and are > 10 years old do not care for him or his very boring character, nothing more.

Selling a lot of merch =/= good entertainment.

Just as a point of interest, what else do you enjoy watching Cynick?

Those figures match up and it leads to one thing.

The only other non sports thing I watch right now is Walking Dead.

I liked Sopranos, 24, and Breaking Bad when they were on. Those are the only scripted drama type shows I ever got into.

But sports takes up most of my TV time.

this is why people perceive you to be a ding bat by the way. Because you appeal to constant fallacies. And it's why it's most likely that you are in some shape or form trolling.

This has been addressed on multiple occasions and you've ignored it to press on with your narrative. Up your game the CyNick I know you've got more than this.

People can respond with an insufficient explanation of how they can get into detailed discussions about shows they claim to not watch.

How was the Habs game last night? Real answer - I have no idea, I didn't watch. IWC response - it was awful, it was one sided and boring. I didn't watch, but I saw two clips and read a summary online.

Love how you keep bringing up the IWC like your not apart of it.

To me IWC is a sub set of sports entertainment fans on the Internet. You can be online and not be part of the IWC.

I use it to group the people who watch and spew hated week after week and think they are smarter than Vince and co.

Your a member of a internet wrestling forum, you are apart of the IWC.

lol I don't think anyone here thinks they are smarter than Vince McMahon.

But to ignore the fact that wrestling is a politicking backstabbing petty business where constant poor decisions are made based on ego is just naive. We know what we see.

Just because we can't do the job better than Vince, doesn't mean the job can't be done better. I personally don't partake in fantasy booking, but I do possess the ability to critique.

I take it you've been to University as you seem a very articulate (albeit sometimes obtuse) individual. Well it taught me the ability to think critically and critique something I don't like in a constructive manner. Quality is certainly subjective, but like I said before, we some how all can surmise that the Rock is better than Barry Horowitz.

Though, much like you, my fellow IWC members (that's what we all are) have the propensity to bother me all the same. You aren't alone in this in the least. It drives me nuts if I hear somebody derail the Rocks work, or call Steve Austin a lousy worker... hell if someone tries to say they weren't a fan of Hulkamania when they grew up in the 80s I know they're lying. These are all things we see in the internet community. And you are not alone in people having vastly differing opinions on all of this.

What you are alone in is being a complete and utter blowhard who thinks he's smarter than everyone for the most part lol.

I tried to watch Smackdown tonight, and honestly, it made me too ashamed to tell anybody I'm a fan of wrestling. Once upon a time, I would have a panic attack if I missed a minute of a WWF/E show, but that time has long passed with this aimless Disney circus flavor of pro wrestling. The saddest part is that I am yet to meet any children who actually watch it or even know what it is. TPWW is the only place I have anyone to talk about the sport without being ridiculed, and I can't even discuss the material of today with even this community because I don't find it entertaining anymore. Is this a phase or is it truly that dreadful of a show these days?

also, the whole "we think we're smarter than Vince" is that same nonsense where if I'm angry at the way Sidney Crosby played on Saturday night, you can retort by saying "WELL HE DID BETTER THAN YOU COULD" like wut? I'm not a professional hockey player nor do i get paid to book wrestling storylines. But I know what I like and I have an idea of what is well received by most audiences, the same as I know if Sidney Crosby played crap or played well.

Well Mick Foley and ex-WWE writers agree that the product is awful right now. And personally I'd take Mick Foley's word over CyNicks.

Well then I'm coming up with a different term

I think lots of people online think they can do things better than Vince, which is absolutely insane given that NOBODY has come close to the success Vince has had. WCW was the closest and they managed to have success for barely over a year, and then they were squashed dead by Vince. My favourite thing online is reading how people say a guy like Jim Cornette is a great mind and a booking genius. He's had stops in other companies, but I didnt see them blast off in terms of popularity. I never saw him create a worldwide superstar. Its a very unique industry, and only Vince has mastered it, therefore I give him the benefit of the doubt on decisions.

The other major beef I have is when people talk like Vince makes decisions for anything other than making money for his company in mind. The narrative is usually things like "oh he wanted to bury that guy because he's from WCW". Has any of the so called reporters in this industry ever got a quote from Vince or HHH to validate that claim? No of course not. But the people who read that garbage, take it like its gospel, and try to pass it off as fact in conversations like this one.

Roman Reigns may not catch on as a #1 babyface, but it wasnt long ago, when he looked like he was on his way to becoming just that. The same Vince that is apparently out of touch, also managed to place Daniel Bryan in the main event of 30 and create one of the most special moments in WWE history. Was he out of touch by having Daniel go down with a career threatening injury? The same Vince green lights NXT every night. Because NXT exists to appeal to a subset of the sports entertainment audience, the people on here say its the best thing in the company. Its the same guy giving the go ahead. Cant have it both ways thats all.

Vince abd h being fairly savvy corporate men give corporate answers in out of character interviews spinning their narrative. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to put that together

So remember a few months ago when all the "dirt sheets" said that Vince was letting go of the reigns and letting HHH book more of RAW? So is that what's happening or is everyone still blaming the "powers that be" for RAW's declining ratings?

Vince wont let go till he is dead

the dirtsheets are like any other sports reporters to be honest. they take whatever scoop they can get and run with it. You have to take it for what it's worth.

As a Jay's fan, right now, David Price has been reported (by reputable reporters no less) to be signing with about 32524 different teams and went from havng a chance to be back with the jays, to never a chance ever, to a bit more of a chance, to maybe kind of a chance.

You have to do your best to sift through the bullshit. I personally think Meltzer does the best he can to be legit, but even he is incredibly full of shit like most reports 65 per cent of the time.

Children tend to know who John Cena is if you ask them. But that is about it.

But scummy newsletter writers with sources who can't be named should be trusted?

Nutty

I see a major difference. A real sports reporter will actually try to get info from the source, and then possibly speculate. Never seem Dave or any of those guys get a quote from Hunter or Vince. Or even day they were reached out but didn't comment. Why? Because they don't want real information. They just want to spin their own narrative.

What Meltzer and co have built a business around is outright lies and passing off the personal speculation as fact. For example the motivation behind not pushing certain guys. It would be like a sports reporter saying a GM is terrible because he didn't pull the trigger of a ficticious trade that was never presented. There are guys like that in real sports, but they are bloggers, and real media outlets would never awknowledge them because it's known they are full of crap. The problem is the Melter Bots just repeat what he "reports" as fact.

No human being is perfect though Cynick, his motives are not pure money, everyone has their pride, arrogance and personal likes and dislikes to stop us from being robots.

Is it so strange to think that Vince might not have gone for certain things because they weren't his creations or characters, for example.

He has proven, with the likes of Punk and Bryan that if he sees cash, he can be flexible, but it is unrealistic to think he hasn't made bad decisions based on other factors before.

He is a genius, and is rightly heralded as such, but we have seen this before in WWE before WCW tackled them. Even the best of us get in a rut and get too comfortable.

So because they don't get their info straight from the top, they're not legit reporters or don't have legit inside sources?

You can't compare real sports reporting to WWE reporting. Real sports reporters have actual access to the top coaches, players, staff, etc., through league mandated/required weekly press conferences, media days, etc. Not only that but many of the best sports coaches, teams, etc., are often highly secretive or sandbag reporters regarding game plans, deal negotiations, injuries, etc. With the exception of the NFL's mandatory injury reporting being the strictest regarding info that teams are required to disclose.

WWE doesn't have mandatory weekly press conferences or media days with the upper level executives, talent or staff regarding game plans, deal negotiations, injuries, etc. WWE doesn't want to reveal their secrets or have a narrative get out that they don't control. There's no benefit to Vince or HHH answering questions about creative plans, etc. so they don't even allow the opportunity. There's also no benefit to the top coaches, talent, staff of real sports teams answering questions about game plans, etc. The difference is obviously most are required to provide the opportunity in real sports.

Don't get me wrong, there are many WWE sites/"reporters", including guys like TPWW's own Ryan Clark who just subscribe to Meltzer's work and then re-write it and pass it off as there own like they have inside sources. Those guys are horrible. To disparage Meltzer as some kind of guy who doesn't have inside info is stupid though. His info isn't always solid but find me someone reporting on an industry as unique as pro wrestling and you'll find that often their sources aren't always accurate either.

Didn't HHH say in the Stone Cold podcast that its frustrating that the internet nerds know more about that is going on sometimes than the actual writers? Pretty sure that occurred in some form in the past year.

Think that was just for anything Authority related since it directly impacted his character. If I remember, he gained a lot of control over Smackdown but not enough to fully revamp the show's status since RAW is still the main priority.

I definitely think I am smarter than an out of touch 70 year old man who thinks that poop and fart jokes are the pinnacle of comedy. Now this Cynick character may scoff at that but he seems to share that 70 year old man's idea of what's entertaining so... I DUNNO *fart*

You think? That's exactly the problem. No, Dale got it right. You think wrong.

Also, you do realize that Jim Cornette was right there at Vince McMahon's right-hand side during some of the most critical re-building periods the WWE has ever had, right?

One could very easily make the argument that Vince never "created" a massive international star on his own either. He's given them platforms, which is what the role of an old-school booker was to do.

What about Kevin Sullivan? He basically created Goldberg by using a Mike Tyson template. I'm not a massive hater of The Berg, but you can't deny that how he was presented was a large part of his success in the industry. It's really annoying when you do this "Vince is responsible for all the good; none of the bad" bullshit.

It's also been widely reported that Vince does not have much input in NXT at all. Sure, he could shut it down in a second -- but let's not pretend he's running that show or a major creative influence. That's just not true.

Your last paragraphs just ramble into nonsense. Apparently you should ask a racist if he racist or something. You're impossible. There is plenty of supported evidence that allows you to see a large picture of what the WWE culture is like, and what Vince McMahon's attitudes are towards certain things.

This says all you need to know about the modern Vince McMahon, and where he feels priorities are:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">.<a href="https://twitter.com/WWE">@WWE</a>. E is for entertainment.
<a href="http://t.co/48SOQyqI29">pic.twitter.com/48SOQyqI29</a></p>&mdash; Vince McMahon (@VinceMcMahon) <a href="https://twitter.com/VinceMcMahon/status/643919759415898113">September 15, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

He definitely said it recently in response to some criticism or something. And I'm sure he has a point -- even in the territory days when one person had the book, you'd still have to juggle egos, politics, injuries and all that sort of thing. Now you do have merchandising agreements, licencing agreements, video game placements, network relations, international television agreements, contracts and many things on top of that. With all that being said, the WWE is not being forced to have a shitty product right now.

The fact that the format is the same, tired old thing each and every week just fucking sucks. It's bad television, as any writer could tell you. Redundancy is a cardinal sin, and I can't remember the last time a Stephanie McMahon promo had a point. In fact, last week she actually said "As you just said" to preface what she was saying. Fucking yawn. Maybe Bonnie Hammer or whatever her name is wants McMahons on television. Well, the McMahons can still explain that their appearances are worth more when they are sporadic. If that doesn't get through, you can still drip them in effectively over an episode, instead of the storytime segments off top.

And that's down to Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn. They think that is a "hook" at the start of their show in 2015. Okay, fine. Well, your hook is not fighting the downward trend in ratings.
"Oh, but television is changing!"
RAW is a live program designed for prime-time viewing on a Monday night. It's broken people's viewing habits, and people aren't watching live anymore. What happened to that experience? What happened to that "catch it as it happens" edge that the program used to have? Was it the hot-shotting of the Attitude era? Possibly, but there's no doubt that people are finding the product sterile. Is it overexposure and product fatigue?

There are far more people who WANT to watch than are watching. Not everybody who likes watching wrestling is watching WWE, and that is a realistic grab of an audience they are missing. The other day, I heard a kid talking about Rey Mysterio and Shawn Michaels. Neither is involved in the WWE product currently. Are the WWE Network subscriptions for the current product, or are they for the nostalgia material?

In the past, I've wanted to see guys pushed, only to later learn that they weren't really a great worker and I didn't understand the fuck-ups they were making. Attitude problems come to the surface. But that being said, it doesn't excuse the WWE for booking the current crop of guys they do SO FUCKING BADLY! I no longer care about them! That's not me saying "I could do better". I know a lot of people who could make me care about them more though. And I am a fan, I do have an opinion, I do have a critical eye for what I do and don't enjoy, so let me tell you -- the current WWE fucking sucks. I WISH it didn't. But it does. And the big problem is with them and not others.

Well let's be reasonable. As far as creative and coherent ideas, I think Vince is probably past his sell by date. But there's more to being just a creative mind that goes into the product. Variables that you and I would probably crumble having them forced upon us.

So yeah, while creatively, I can think of something far better than the Katie Vick angle, or having to reference Reid Flair's death to appeal to the lowest common denominator... I also wouldn't really know how to coordinate with a producer how to piece a show together to ensure Brock Lesnar comes across as a star.

I mean I'd get the idea of how to BOOK him like a star, but the logistics and the ins and outs make Vince a genius. It does go a little beyond the storylines... which I really wish it didn't. Plus as Chris Jericho has pointed out, there is that fine line b/w genius and madness, which Vince often crosses. Every 1000 shitty ideas he has and we're forced to stomach, he has one MONEY idea where every thing clicks and I could probably say I wouldn't be able to make that happen. I could maybe think of the idea, but I couldn't be the quarterback and make it happen.

And I mean for every fart and poop joke that is terrible, when Vince is in character and on screen, he is pretty fucking hilarious.

And of course I have never once said Vince is perfect. If you asked someone on here do I think Vince is perfect, they would say yes, but thats because most people on here read what they want to read, not what is actually written.

No, I think at the end of the day Vince does what HE THINKS is what the fans want, because in the long run, thats best for business. The guy has THE MOST PROFITABLE company in the history of the entire industry. Thats not by accident.

Its more than Punk and Bryan. In 2004 he pushed Eddie and Benoit. If you go by the Dirt Sheet Playbook, those guys had multiple strikes against them; "WCW guys", "midgets", one of them couldnt cut a promo if his life depended on it, etc. Yet somehow those guys were pushed to the moon. But since that doesnt fit into the narrative, its largely ignored.

In all honesty, its overblown on here. The majority of people liked the low rent elements of the Attitude Era, and a result, they say the current era sucks. Ive been watching since the early to mid 80s, and I still enjoy it. But my opinion doesnt count because it goes against the Dirst Sheet Playbook.

From a business and marketing standpoint, he's well aware of what he's doing. That includes all the little production aspects. CyNick wants to throw a blanket reference to him being a genius out there as if his business smarts is directly related to his creative mind so if you think giving a diva a farting gimmick or ending a heavily-featured blood feud without explanation is retarded, YOU must be wrong because Vince can't be.

Incorrect.

They are just terrible reporters. Actually, check that, they are just NOT reporters. But they like to pass themselves off like they are. Vince has done interviews in the past where he's shooting. He did the one with Austin, and Austin hit him with questions that were controversial, and Vince answered them without blinking an eye. And that was on his own Network, so obviously he's not afraid to pull back the curtain. The problem with the Dirt Sheets is that if they were to interview Vince, they wouldn't have the ability to lean on "sources say" to carry on their lies. And without the lies, they dont have the "controversies" to read about in their Dirt Sheets.

I've heard Triple H discuss backstage things in different setting. He was interviewed by Chris Jericho, and was very open about the behind the scenes happening. But what happens is when the Dirt Sheet guys get quotes that dont fit their narrative, they just ignore it as "well he's just working".

I dont know why you are hating on Ryan. Anything I see posted gives credit to whatever publication they are pulling the info from. Its the guys like Dave (there are others too, I just mention him specifically because he's the top guy) that pass themselves off as "insiders", when the reality is they have no connections to the top levels of the creative workings of WWE.

Survivor Series is one of probably 100 examples of shoddy reporting. The reports going into SurvSer was "WWE is deciding between Reigns and Ambrose for champion". When the tournament was first revealed, most people on here GUESSED that Reigns and Ambrose would end up in the Finals. I think Noid nailed the Final Four perfectly. Does that mean he's an "insider" or was it just the most logical booking? So the Dirst Sheet writers run with that GUESS and pass it off as "inside information". Then when they are WRONG, they backtrack and run with the classic excuse "well WWE changes their mind all the time, so there was chaos, and a last minute change resulted in Sheamus as champ". Why not just ask Vince or Hunter if there was a last minute change? Because it doesn't work with their narrative.

I listened to that interview, I just dont recall the quote. Would need to know the context.

Hahaha, how is your billion dollar company doing?

I find it ironic that you are talking about a 70 year old man is out of touch, and you are in a thread that is talking about what a crisis it is that Monday's ratings have declined. You should read some recent articles about what major networks think about daily TV ratings that dont factor in DVR and Digital numbers. At least Vince has the excuse of being 70 years, whats your excuse for not understanding the paradigm shift in entertainment consumption.

BTW - WWE is I believe the 5th most popular VOD service. Not bad for an out of touch 70 year old.

I find New Day entertaining.

Another Vince creation.

Are you dense or do you lack reading comprehension abilities? I just told you why. They don't have access to Vince or HHH.

Guys like Jericho and Austin do. Not only that, but by going on with Jericho or Austin, (especially on WWE Network) they can still control more of the the narrative. I.e., "Don't ask me any questions about future creative plans."

I'm not saying HHH or Vince won't be honest when being interviewed by someone like Austin or Jericho, but it's always questions about things after the fact. In their interviews with HHH or Vince, Austin and Jericho aren't asking what the future creative plans are.

In comparison, you can have reporters who know people working in the company who are privy to future/upcoming creative and/or business decisions who will share them prior to them occurring.

Do you know what exactly Cornette contributed to WWE's rebuild? Dont tell me what the Dirt Sheet writers wrote, give me your own inside scoops. What I know is that since he left WWE, Cornette has not done anything worth talking about, except complain on the internet. Probably tells you all you need to know about his contributions vs Vince's.

You know who else had a major contribution to WWE's success in the late 90s? Vince Russo. Notice he didnt make your Wall of Fame (doesnt fit the narrative, I know). Did you see what happened to him after he left Vince's wing? I did too, it wasnt pretty.

Ive never once said "Vince is responsible for all the good and none of the bad". If I was an American, I would sue you for liable. But I'm a good natured Canadian, so I will let it pass. But hey, it upped your word count, so well done lad.

NXT has been reported as Triple H's baby. Of course the NXT Triple H is a different person than the Dirt Sheet villain Triple H who buries everyone so he can push himself. I bet he's just building NXT so that he can book himself against the entire roster and Pedigree them all. That aside, the issue that gets lost is that NXT is a company wide effort. Triple H has said himself that NXT is meant to target a different audience from RAW and Smackdown. Quite frankly, booking to satisfy the passionate WWE fans is easier, but it likely wont appeal to the wider audience. Thats why its on the WWE Network, which is essentialy made up of all passionate fans. At the end of the day, if Vince thought it was crap, he wouldn't allow it on his Network. But he does, and he pushes it like crazy, and allows it to grow.

Most interviews I've read of guys who were real players in WWE and would have had extensive experience with Vince usually have nothing but positive things to say about him.

Actually, when talking to the guys from New Day, Vince completely missed the mark with them, and it was those guys figuring it out on their own which made it happen. That is from their own mouths, not the dirtsheets.

Any time you reference the dirt sheets you deserve to have your nuts zapped. You actually sound retarded.

Ive never said he's batting 100%

Ive said his batting average is multiple times better than anyone else in the history of the business.

*poops on CyNick's head*

*is now best friends with CyNick for some reason*

*farts*

*sends genius post to Vince McMahon*

*accepts job offer*

Cynick: "Yeah, but it doesn't matter that New Day said that. If it doesn't come directly from Vince or HHH, it isn't credible and didn't happen."

Im not saying they should ask about future plans. I'm saying now that Surv Ser is behind them, they could ask if that was a change in direction. My point is they dont even TRY to interview the actual decision makers because it doesnt help their cause.

I know what you are saying about Austin, but Austin asked him point blank about Cesaro, which was a thing that was ongoing at the time, and Vince gave an honest answer about his opinions and why he wasn't being pushed to the moon. It just shows how WWE doesn't respect the Dirst Sheet guys as legitimate reporters, because they are not.

I can start a blog tomorrow about the NHL and get 100K followers. Doesnt mean Im going to get accredited to cover NHL games.

But thats what guys are supposed to do. Vince took three guys going NOWHERE and said here's a platform, try to make it work.

New Day is actually a shining example of guys who went out and grabbed the brass ring that Vince talks about.

Just like when Vince put Hunter with Pac and The Outlaws, I dont think he envisioned they would do exactly what they did, but he gave them the platform, and they contributed creatively, and Vince gave it the green light. New Day is doing that today, just within the confines of a PG Universe.

Thats what people in the industry call them.

I could use the term you would prefer...role models.

I admire your persistence.

You Got SWERVED

Again, you're making an assumption. You actually think that if a lot of these "reporters" had the opportunity to interview or question Vince or HHH, they'd turn it down or not mention it?

I agree that most of the "reporters" running these sites are actually terrible writers or don't have real sources from a traditional reporter standpoint. That being said, the few legit "dirt sheet" reporters there are out there shouldn't be disparaged because they're not working for a major media outlet.

What about me? I left a large, established law firm and now run my own large, successful firm. Does that mean I'm not really an attorney or less of an attorney?

CyNick has now been demoted from ZZ to VKM Kiss my Ass club photos.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...Bj5FzKicGkwdRQ

hahaha

classic

lol yes, I live every day wishing to be Dave Meltzer.

You said it

I can only assume you dream of being Kevn Dunn. A creepy little weirdo with a poo fetish.

I love how this place is so easily butthurt that one person can completely own the whole place.

CYNICK 4 LYFE

Actually Theddy Damndest, I know it's easy to go with that narrative if you're going to be black and white, but I don't think any body cares about someone enjoying the product and putting it over. What we get annoyed with is being told we're sheep because we don't enjoy the product.

I don't see this as about owning anyone and us being butthurt or trying to defeat the Cynick. We are responding to a guy telling us we don't understand something we have been a part of for multiple decades.

If anything, I want to give Cynick the chance to express his opinion without talking at us.

and if your focus is on other people being butt hurt, I'd say you have some of your own issues you need to deal with.

Do you? Does that mean you're finally gonna respond to that post of mine you've been avoiding for a month (as I BELIEVE you gave your word you'd be doing in post 293 of the jump the shark thread) or are you just gonna admit you're backed into a corner as far as defending WWE's writing? Or are you just gonna keep ignoring it hoping it will go away and you can keep bullshitting your way into thinking WWE's writing is top notch? I bet you keep going with that last option. Just a hunch.

*tries to fart but accidentally poops*

*sends description of incident to Kevin Dunn to pitch at next creative meeting*

Dunn: Genius! Give this to Sasha Banks! Where's Sasha? She's in the can!

Cornette came up with the Hell in a Cell idea, he was largely responsible for protecting Kane during the first six months of his career. He, Jim Ross and Bruce Pritchard would hang out with Vince at his house and block out the entire show. After leaving the main roster, he went down to OVW, where he helped craft basically anyone that came up from OVW at that point in time until Heyman took over in 2005.

His plans for ROH were basically what Triple H did with NXT, except Sinclair didn't commit to them. What a bad idea, huh?

Cornette and Russo are very different people with very different attitudes to the industry. It's not a case of not fitting the narrative, it's a case of them playing different roles in them.

But if you're the biggest game in town, doesn't that mean you must be doing something right? Doesn't the market dictate which product should survive?

And why were these guys going nowhere? Seems that whenever something good happens it's "Praise Vince!" and whenever nothing is happening, somehow it's the talent's fault. That seems especially contradictory to your alleged point that Vince McMahon is involved so heavily in the creative direction of everything, including NXT (which many insiders -- yes, people actually involved in the business -- have confirmed that he doesn't).

<font color=goldenrod>Crediting Vince with getting the New Day over is hilarious. It's well documented that he intended for the group to be faces, and he could not understand at all why the group was getting booed to shit for months. He actually thought they were going to win over the crowds and especially the African-American demographic with that shit.

The members themselves acknowledged that Vince never saw them as a heel group. They basically turned themselves heel by realizing their reactions were terrible. At that point they no longer gave a fuck and had really nothing to lose so they decided to just have fun with it and it's worked spectacularly well, to the point where Vince can't go back to the original plan.

New Day has thrived in spite of Vince, not because of him.</font>

Yes but did Vince or HHH say that in an interview? Nope? Sorry :'( It does not matter if the talent says it. Needs it to come from Vince or HHH.

Kofi said in an interview that he himself want the group to be faces

How dare you question the Almighty Meltzer or the Gospel PWI with your logical skepticism..... If you read something quoted from "an anonymous source" your better believe it's the truth!

<font color=goldenrod>The group talked at length in Jericho's podcast that Vince wanted the group to be faces and actually thought it would work. That's good enough for me since they'd have no reason to make it up.</font>

Yeah, but don't you remember when Daniel Bryan lied about Mania plans to protect Kayfabe and Batista lied about Mania plans because Vince doesn't tell his talents everything? C'mon Vito, get it together.

Vito is the dirtsheet sheep to the max. Maaan, Vito, you need real facts here. The only thing that counts as a fact is if Vince or HHH states it. Maybe Steph depending on who is doing the interview.

lol Dave Meltzer is a constant interview with Steve Austin and Jim Ross on their podcasts, who they make it clear that they respect and actually defer to for information on wrestling.

That's not to say Meltzer isn't full of shit from time to time, but he's a pretty even keel reporter and I don't think either Jim Ross or Austin (MAMMOTHS in the business) would bother with him if he was some punk. Same with Wade Keller.

But Cynick obviously knows more than Ross and Austin. Especially about what Vince is thinking, because 2 men who worked closely with Vince wouldn't know Vince like Cynick.

I don't see the issue in HHH beating Sting.

1) Sting wasn't hurt at all by losing to HHH. Sting does have a name value, and the WWE did do a good job building his name prior to Wrestlemania to give him even more credit.

2) Sting was going away for a while after Wrestlemania and HHH wasn't going anywhere so for that reason alone HHH should have won.

O shit was the Sting/HHH thing in the other thread?

Fuck

Since were on the subject, I personally think 90% of what "dirt sheets" report are bull shit. I use TNA as an example. Meltzer reports back in like July that he received a "memo from a DA executive" saying TNA is getting cancelled in Oct (I don't know how a journalist who does not work for either company would receive such privileged information, but let's say he did) So October rolls around and TNA is still on DA..... then Dixie does an interview saying TNA is moving stations in 2016.... so then the dirt sheets "report" that they WERE going to cancel them in Oct, but they gave them an extension to be on TV.

I actually said in that thread that I thought it was lazy writing, but the issue was the talent screwed it up, so it got to a point where its useless to try to fix it through writing. They just decided to hit the reset button. That doesn't make it good writing, just understandable. And I dont think one angle being terrible means 'everything sucks'.

What I would recommend you do is look up Victor Newman vs Jack Abbott. And tell me there is 100% continuity between them being allies and enemies. The show those characters are on is the #1 daytime drama, and has been for years and years.

You're throwing out random things that Cornette apparently did. Do you have sources on this? Please please dont say the sheets or Cornette himself.

Ask Kevin Owens about Cornette as a booker/person in charge. Guys like you like and respect Owens, right?

Who said 'Vince could not understand why they were getting booed'?

At the end of the day Vince will be proven right. They are 3 black guys, basically playing over the top preachers, talking about positivity. They will be full fledged babyfaces at some point in 2016.

I dont see how you can say they succeeded in spite of Vince. He took three characters that were aimless as singles, and put them together. Vince has said on many occasions that he listens to the crowd. He repackaged New Day, and maybe he did think they would catch on babyfaces right off the bat. They didnt, so he listened to the fans, and turned them heel. Now you can see the fans starting to take to them (as Vince expected to happen) and they will likely go babyface at some point.

What I will say in this case, is the New Day guys took the Unicorn by the horn, and rather than just drowning when the gimmick didnt catch on in the exact way as first laid out, they adapted, and added their own flare. No different than how Rock rolled with the punches when he was getting booed, and created a character that turned into a massive success. But he still needed Vince to buy in to the shift, just like New Day would have has to sell Vince on what they are doing now. Its a joint effort between Vince and the talent.

So you think Vince lays out every long term plan to all talent. Vince tells guys what they need to know when they need to know it.

Roman Reigns said he wasn't told about Mania booking until the night before.

But in your mind, we just ignore what Roman said regarding how far in advance the talent was filled in with plans because it doesnt fit the narrative.

I have no problem with Dave in terms of historical knowledge. For example, if I wanted when someone in the business dies, I think he's a solid source for bios and stuff like that. Beyond that, Austin and Ross are trying to sell their podcasts to the same people who currently read the sheets, so it makes sense to speak to their fearless leader.

Where I think he's full of shit is his access to inside information. I think (check that, I know with 100% certainty) his info is BS. I believe his whole business is based on selling the idea that WWE is in constant trouble, and are always doing the wrong thing. You gotta pay to read next week's issue to know what mistakes are being made. I cant remember the first issue of the Dirt Sheet I ever read, might have been 98 or 99, but even then he was selling issues in the same manner, and business was great. Then he is able to backtrack on everything by saying WWE is constantly changing plans. Okay!

#2 is the biggest thing to me.

HHH is a weekly TV character. If it was Steve Austin coming back to wrestle, then sure, I would say its fine for HHH to lose. But Sting is not Austin. HHH got the win, but they moved mountains to protect Sting in that match.

The other thing that gets ignored is that from his debut, Sting never really got the type of pop you would expect from a top level star. It was a nice pop, but I remember hearing it, and thinking I expected more.

The pop for Sting was fine. Hinter is not going to be hurt by a Sting loss and using Sting to sell the Monday Night Wars is a bigger waste of Sting than anything he did in TNA beside the Jeff Hardy incident. Wish Sting would have stayed away from WWE and just retired. The mans reasoning for not signing with WWE years back is exactly why he should have stayed away. WWE has no idea how to use Sting and really never intended on making Sting look like the Icon he is.

I see where you are going with this but this was not really on topic. I was really making fun of CyNick for calling all and any wrestler not named HHH to not be a credible source of information while doing an interview.

:lol:

You're so full of shit. You're as big or even bigger a phony than most of the dirt sheet reporters.

You know his info is bullshit how exactly?

You completely ignore the times that Meltzer and others have been spot on in their reporting of future plans/outcomes. Instead all you do is focus on the times when they were incorrect in reporting future plans or outcomes and the fact they make money off of their reporting.

Vince and HHH are the only sources that are reliable to you and if dirt sheet reporters don't have access to Vince or HHH, they're full of shit. You never do address the issue of dirt sheet reporters simply not having access to guys like HHH or Vince but instead only have access to others in the company that will anonymously share future plans with them as they're made aware of them.

Yes. I have NO problem believing and understanding that Roman wasn't told of the outcome of a match he was going to be in until the night before. It's completely reasonable, believable and understandable.

Roman isn't on the level of Rock, Batista, Austin, Taker, HHH, Cena, Jericho, Sting, etc. Roman doesn't have the contracts, stroke, experience, drawing power, history, etc. of guys like Rock, Batista, Austin, Taker, Cena, Jericho, etc.

Batista, Rock, Jericho, Taker, HHH, etc., all have the draw, contracts, history, etc., to decide whether or not they want to come back based on who they're going to work with and what the plans for them are. None of them may have the final say or expectations to know specific match outcomes or specific writing/booking plans or details more than a day in advance. It's reasonable to believe that guys like Rock, Batista, Lesnar, Taker, etc. would AT LEAST be told (either before or upon returning) what the overall plans and expectations were for them in terms of who they'll be feuding with, face/heel alignment, etc.

Its also reasonable to believe that Vince doesn't completely make a decision on some things until last minute.

Very true. It's also reasonable to believe that Vince & co. often change their minds on their original plans.

Yes it is. Did Vince ever tell you that in a notarized letter? If not then bullshit. Must have the stamp to prove it too.

He is very quick to point out when they were doing well and ACTUALLY to put over Vince when ever I've heard the chance. You are simply pushing your narrative.

lol I can't stop arguing with you, you're the cut on the roof of my mouth I can't stop tonguing, you sick bastard.

You're talking about results. I'm not talking results. I'm talking plans. Batista was told a plan. He has gone on record saying he was to come in as the huge babyface to challenge for the title. Daniel Bryan stated through several outlets, including a company produced documentary, that the plan was never to main event and only when the fans threatened to shit on the main event did things change.

To which again I ask why in the world those two would lie? What reason do they have to throw Vince under the bus?

Unfortunately no. :'(

The Micker says this might be his last Raw

He also mentioned in the comments:

Oh Mick.

I like Mick, I enjoyed his work over the years in WCW, ECW and of course WWE. But the guy is egotistical.

Why would he think WWE would randomly call him for his opinion? They have plenty of ex talent on the payroll who they can bounce creative ideas. Everything about that blurb comes down to "its all about Mick". We're nearing Mania season and Mick has an angle he should be involved him. I don't think he's at a stage where physically he should in a WWE ring. He wants everyone to gather around and find out if he's gong to stop watching (spoiler, he won't), does anyone really care?

On top of that he doesn't listen to what Vince says. Vince specifically said he thinks one of the problems with guys today is they are afraid to fail. The problem is the talent expects everything to be handed to them. He talks about scripts. This may sound mean, but Mick is likely heavily scripted because they don't trust him to stay on point and within time constraints. New Day talks about how they are not scripted and given the green light to do their own promos. But not everyone is that good, so the guys who are not, are heavily scripted. I believe it was Triple H who said some guys prefer it that way. That shouldn't be an indictment on WWE creative.

Mick talks about using blood to get Roman over. Sure, that would be easier. But I don't think Toys R Us and Kay Jewellers would appreciate being associated with a form of entertainment where grown men mutilate their bodies and bleed in front of little kids in the first row. The product is more mature now, more family friendly. Maybe because Mick needed all those gimmicks as a crutch to get over, he can't fathom how it can be done without it.

At the end of the day Mick is just trying to get more eyeballs on his blog, which is smart. He'll be watching next week, the week after, the month after, and the year after that. Bank on it.