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larry browns head would pop off.
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Pretty interesting pre-show stuff on TNT. They're debating the best dunk contest dunk of all-time now.
But what I want to talk about is what they did before this. In 1996, the NBA announced the 50 greatest players of all-time for the 50th anniversary of the league. For those who don't remember, the list was: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Nate Archibald, Paul Arizin, Charles Barkley, Rick Barry, Elgin Baylor, Dave Bing, Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain, Bob Cousy, Dave Cowens, Billy Cunningham, Dave DeBusschere, Clyde Drexler, Julius Erving, Patrick Ewing, Walt Frazier, George Gervin, Hal Greer, John Havlicek, Elvin Hayes, Magic Johnson, Sam Jones, Michael Jordan, Jerry Lucas, Karl Malone, Moses Malone, Pete Maravich, Kevin McHale, George Mikan, Earl Monroe, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, Robert Parish, Bob Pettit, Scottie Pippen, Willis Reed, Oscar Robertson, David Robinson, Bill Russell, Dolph Schayes, Bill Sharman, John Stockton, Isiah Thomas, Nate Thurmond, Wes Unseld, Bill Walton, Jerry West, Lenny Wilkens, and James Worthy. Anyway, since it's 10 years later, TNT decided to add ten more players to that list. It wasn't an official NBA thing, just a ballot among TNT's 14 NBA announcers and analysts. Here's who they added (in order of most points): 1) Tim Duncan 2) Kobe Bryant 3) Dominique Wilkins 4) Allen Iverson 5) Bob McAdoo 6) Kevin Garnett 7) Reggie Miller 8) Connie Hawkins 9) Jason Kidd 10) Gary Payton I agree with quite a few of the guys they put on here, but I'm not entirely sure what business Iverson and Payton have on this list. Both were excellent players, to be sure, but how can they get on while they left off Joe Dumars? Maybe in five years, if Iverson can ever win anything, we can consider him for the top 65, but no way do I think he belongs on that list at this point in his career. (I thought the same thing about Shaq in 1996. NOW, I'd put him on the list, but at that point in his career, he'd only been in the league three years. How on EARTH did he make it, while they left off Dominique Wilkins?) Anyway, discuss. |
GREAT dunk contest tonight. I really hope that the excitement that Nate Robinson and Andre Iguodala brought tonight will remind the LeBrons and the Kobes that guys like MJ and 'Nique used to tear this contest up, and that nobody is "too big" for the contest.
Iguodala's dunk in the first round is maybe the best I've ever seen. Especially after he whacked his head the first time around. |
I'm pretty sure they have a rule that only guys who have been in the league like 3 years or less can compete. That'd rule out guys like Kobe and Vince but LeBron still could have done it.
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I was rooting for AI but wasn't disappointed Nate won. Dunking over Spudd was awesome and that freestyle fifth dunk was crazy. AI had best dunk of the night (maybe ever) though. |
Anyone else unable to get the NBA Media Player to work? I can't watch video from NBA.com on Firefox or IE. ESPN and MLB.com's stuff have always worked for me, but not NBA.com. :(
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I was worried Reggie would get overlooked. IMO he's the 3rd greatest 2guard ever. Behind Jordan and West. I challenge anyone to argue that Reggie Miller isnt the clutchest player ever.
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It wasn't always the rising stars game, they only changed it to hide the fact that all the biggest stars didn't want to do it
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Oh yeah. Forgot about that. :$
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But Reggie is easily second. At least of the players I've seen. |
Horry?
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I'm usually not one to critique sports fashion, but good GOD these All-Star uniforms are ugly!
And this whole "keep giving T-Mac the ball so he can win the MVP in front of his home crowd" thing is frustrating. |
Rocket fans have to be wondering where this T-Mac has been the last few wekks
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I thought Nate winning the dunk contest was pretty...odd. I didn't know you got as many tries as you wanted to dunk?
Pretty disappointing/anticlimatic when they announced the winner, but it was entertaining overall. |
I'm glad they got rid of the missed dunk rule, otherwise we wouldn't have gotten to witness a ton of these classic dunks. I was watching an old dunk contest on ESPN classic and all the guys were scared to do something crazy becuase you were allowed one miss. The one from the otherside of the backboard was fucking insane. Nate Robinson is straight up insane too though, his hoops are unbelievable. Jumping over Spud Webb was awesome.
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I agree that getting rid of the missed dunk rule was the right thing to do, but you should be penalized somewhat when it takes you like 15 times to do a dunk. Maybe like a point or two.
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Exactly, the crowd even seemed like they thought it was pretty ridiculous. I dunno, it seemed like they were just giving Nate free points because he's 5'9". :-\
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That was seriously a great dunk, and if he'd hit it on one of his first five tries, I'd have been all for giving him the title.
But once he hit double-digits, they should have let him finish the dunk, but given the title to Iguodala who was the most consistently amazing dunker of the contest. |
ESPN says that the Raptors are close to landing Bryan Colangelo as their new GM.
FUCK YES! This is the best news in a long time for the Raptors, they have offered him 3 times what he is making in Phoenix. I really hope this goes through but I have a bad feeling its just going to result in him getting a huge raise to stay in Phoenix. |
What's up with the Bulls tonight? It looks like they are in practice uniforms.
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Colangelo would be a huge coup for Toronto. He's one of the best GMs in the league.
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You guys can take Kevin McHale...after all you got Babcock from us too :p
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Not happening
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LOL @ Pacers playing good
WOOOT |
ESPN is reporting this trade
To Denver: Ruben Paterson Reggie Evans To Seattle: Earl Watson To Portland: Voshon Lenard Vitaly Potepenko |
You forgot the Kings, they are involved somehow I believe. I forget details though.,
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Over the All-Star Weekend, Bill Simmons moderated the All-Time Atrocious GM Summit.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/060224 |
Lol I read that too, good read
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What a comeback by the Mavs today.
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Gilbert had 46 points tonight on 13-16 shooting. His three misses were all 3-point attempts.
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:wavesad: Bryan Colangelo :wavesad:
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:wavesad: Sam Mitchell :wavesad:
(There goes a guarenteed 2 wins a year for the Nuggs :( ) |
I like Mitchell, hope he is given a chance. Its a still young team and they've made the mistakes that a young team will make, I don't think that he's to blame. Mitchell should get alittle more time before Colangelo brings in his own guy.
Oh an by the way WOOO F'N HOOOO |
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Not gonna lie, it really is a fresh breathe of air to see who the top three draft prospects are. Adam Morrison, LaMarcus Aldridge and Rudy Gay. Morrison and Gay are stars in college and Aldridge is very solid, but more importantly all three teams are in the top 10.
Am I the only one who is happy to see the big names in college hoops this year rather than the unknown high schoolers? |
Rudy Gay is the next Lamar Odom
Anyways, you see the Knicks green jerseys tonight? haha I kinda liked them |
Why is JJ Redick not a top three prospect
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He is not athletic enough, ie he is white
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Because top 3 prospects need to be good at more than 2 things
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I would take Morrison before Aldridge, unless I really needed a big man or something
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Wtf, why is no one posting here anymore? It's almost playoff time! Lake show is doin' pretty good, they can win at least 2 in their series with the Suns.
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What team will win the ''Get beat by Pistons first round sweepstakes''
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I dunno, I was really into the NBA earlier, with the climax being when the T-Wolves made the Western Finals in my senior year, but since then the NBA has gone sour for me. It is so money driven on the players and owners part. The players don't work hard and the league has sold its soul for money. You can't get a decent ticket for less than 50 dollars, which means all of the fans are rich businessmen who don't care. There isn't an atmosphere like there used to be. What really started to piss me off though was when they didn't start a home T-Wolves playoff game until after 9 p.m. on a week night.
I think the NBA as a whole has been on a decline since Kobe and Shaq split. There was so much energy around the league with them being there and I just feel like it is lost now. I mean who gives a shit about the Spurs, honestly? Can you can any less charismatic players? The Pistons and Suns are doing it right, but Miami fucked up its roster too much as well. It just seems like the NBA is really down lately. The only play I would turn on the TV to watch right now is Kobe, I'm not a huge fan of LeBron personally. I just think college basketball has so much more emotion and storylines that is has a huge advantage over the NBA right now. |
Raptors are like the only team I can watch and enjoy right now. I used to be so into the game back in high school but now it bores me.
BTW the Raptors will be a playoff team next year might even win their division. Good draft pick, good GM and a couple good big bodies in the draft is gonna put this team over the top. They are playing great right now without Bosh they are playing alot of tight games and you take away that terrible start and they are in the playoffs right now. Next year will be hottt |
I heard Peja was being linked to the Raptors because of some large population of whatever country he is from. They would be pretty sick, I've also heard Kareem Rush's name being mentioned.
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Peja would be cool but I like what we have going with Mo Pete this year, the guys is playing the best basketball of his career and doing alot of the same stuff that Peja does. Plus he has become a pretty good perimeter defender.
If Mo Pete and Mike James are back next year (not sure if Peterson is a free agent, but I think he either is or he has one more year) then I think that all we need are a center and pack up point guard. They may already have the point guard in Calderon. |
Yah Peja said he's opting for free agencies next year. We probably wont resign him. But i'm not sure who the big free agents will be, but we might have a little money to throw at one.
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GO LAKERS POSTSEASON BABY
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Who are some big free agents next season?
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Lakers looked good last night despite the loss. That team plays alot better with eachother now. Kwame Brown ( When he can catch the ball in the post ) has become a decent low post player. Luke Walton, Odem, Kobe, and Parker on the floor together create fits. Especially since Luke Walton is playing like he might be worth something. Lakers might shock someone. Kobe is the best player in the league btw.
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The Lakers aren't getting past the Suns. Also, Melo is the most clutch player in the NBA. :cool:
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Pacers are playing for a Lottery Pick.
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Julius Hodge got shot
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EDDIE HOUSE
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1. Ben Wallace 2. Al Harrington 3. Jason Terry 4. Nazr Mohammed 5. Joel Przybilla 6. Nene 7. Mike James 8. Peja 9. Radmanovic 10. Drew Gooden 11. Chris Wilcox 12. Bonzi Wells 13. Reggie Evans 14. Marcus Banks 15. Alonzo Mourning 16. Bobby Jackson 17. Sam Cassell 18. Flip Murray 19. Rasual Butler 20. Tim Thomas 21. Speedy Claxton 22. Lorenzon Wright 23. DJ Mbenga 24. Keith Van Horn 25. David Wesley/Nick Van Exel/Chucky Atkins/Gary Payton/Tony Delk/Milt Palacio |
Shows how much Pejas value has fallen over hte last two years. He is behind Nene.
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Hey guys what's going on with Amare Stoudamire these days? :$ Yeah we don't get much info over here in the UK. Thought he was coiming back before the postseason?
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No, they fucking let him play for a couple of games and he refucked his fucking knee. So he had to have fucking surgery to clear some fucking stuff and he's out for the whole season. Stupid fucks.
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That's some shitty free agents.
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He was back for like two or three games but his knee wasn't good enough so now he is out all season
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Ouch sounds pretty fucking stupid let him fuck himself up again :$. Not that I'm a Suns fan but just sounds stupid.
And yeah wow Free Agency doesn't look too big this season. |
It was actually his other knee that he injured. He was out all season with a left knee injury, then he returned and hurt his right knee.
And Ben Wallace pulled down 20+ rebounds again today. Two more wins and the Pistons clinch home court advantage throughout. |
Lake show beat the Clips tonight. Pretty huge win. I just hope we can get that 7 spot. 6th woulda been sweet, but it was a longshot I guess.
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Pretty big win for the Sixers tonight. Memphis should start losing on purpose so they can get that 6 spot. Lakers will win at least 2 games in their playoff series.
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Yeah I'm sure the Grizzlies would love the 6 spot, considering they'd play the Nuggets and have NEVER won at the Pepsi Center.
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Hmm, Nuggets or Dallas? Yeah, I'd pick the Nuggets
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At least the Wolves lost, although I really don't see any way that they can compete even next year. The deal with Boston was so horrible, Ricky Davis and Mark Blount are signed until 2009 and 2010 respectively. If the Wolves didn't sign any new players next season, the payroll would only decrease by 2 million dollars. The worst part, if they didn't make any changes after next year, the payroll would be higher than it is this year! Kevin McHale is just as bad as Isiah Thomas.
The Wolves are going to make a run for Joel Pryzbilla, but Portland will likely get him back. Then my best guess is that the Wolves take Sheldon or Foye in the draft. The only way they can even consider competing is if they find a way to deal Troy Hudson and Blount. AHHHHH |
Lake show is heaaating up at the right time. Kobe went for 50 last night. They can beat the Suns in the first round. Lamar had his 2nd triple double in 2 games.
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The Lakers can not beat the Suns in the first round.
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I like Kobe and the Lakers, but they won't beat the Suns, especially because the NBA is retarded and has a seven game series in the first round now.
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Well they can make a series out of it. If they keep playing like this they can.
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No, they won't even make a series out of it.
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The Lakers may get one game from Phoenix.
My upset special that I'm thinking about now is that Washington could win out and take the #5 seed and I think that, over the course of a series, they would beat Cleveland. |
Lake shoowwww
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Alright you guys ready? I haven't cared about the NBA in a while now, but here's mine.
Round 1 Detroit over Chicago in 4 Miami over Milwaukee in 5 New Jersey over Indiana in 6 Washington over Cleveland in 6 San Antonio over Sacramento in 5 Phoenix over Lakers in 5 Clippers over Denver in 6 Dallas over Memphis in 4 Round 2 Detroit over Washington in 4 New Jersey over Miami in 6 San Antonio over Dallas in 6 Phoenix over Clippers in 5 Round 3 Detroit over New Jersey in 5 San Antonio over Phoenix in 6 Finals Detroit over San Antonio in 6 |
Well, I'd have Memphis win 1 game at least, and i dont think Wash will go over Cleveland.. other than that, its pretty accurate.
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God, the NBA is so stupid. I can't believe they do seven game series in the first round. It should be one and done like college basketball, which is 10x more exciting.
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1 and done would be lame in the NBA, they should go back to the 5 game series in the first round.
They also need to get ride of the 40 games in 40 nights shit, its a joke how long the playoffs take |
Mamba(Kobe) 4 MVP
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I think to be Most Valuable Player, don't you need to...like, add value to your team? Kobe is a basketball black hole. The ball goes to him, it never leaves. It's a miracle that team is playoff-bound.
Really, the three viable MVP contenders at the moment are: Steve Nash - Can't argue with six teammates having career years LeBron James - Finally became a playmaker and not just a scorer Chauncey Billups - The driving force behind the best team in the league Personal bias would give it to Chauncey, but I'd understand either of the other two. |
Theres a lot of ways to define MVP.
I think a strong case can be made for Kobe that I read from Bill Simmons. Just imagine you replace him with an above average shooting guard, like Jamal Crawford, they are probably the worst team in the league. Whereas you give Phoenix someone like Mike James instead of Nash and they would still be dangerous. BTW I don't think you can give it to Chauncey, they whole team is about chemistry and no one stands out above others that much. I also think that people are ignoring defense when talking about Kobe, the other big candidates don't play defense as well as him and a guy like Nash is a liability on defense |
Chauncey's pretty damn good on D, though. Probably not as good as Kobe (few are, I'll admit), but he's one of the better defensive point guards in the league.
I've never been a big proponent of the "Take one player out and replace them and see how the team does" theory of MVP decision. For this reason: Say you take Kobe Bryant out of Los Angeles, and you replace him with... let's say Michael Redd. It would be an entirely different team. For one thing, Chris Mihm wouldn't be the starting center. They'd have that Shaq guy in the middle. And, even if you put aside the deals the team made to appease Kobe, guys like Lamar Odom without Kobe would be averaging more than 14.9 PPG (he was averaging 16.2 for his career before he came to LA, and that's including his two injury-plagued years with the Clippers). They'd have better ball movement, and guys like Odom and Smush Parker would be allowed to contribute. And, sure, Phoenix would still be a very good team with Jason Terry or Kirk Hinrich or Delonte West, but I always consider the MVP as someone who makes his teammates better. Raja Bell - Career highs in PPG, FG%, rebounding, he's second in 3-point shooting, Shawn Marion - Career highs in PPG, blocks, rebounding, and he's .042 higher than his highest career shooting percentage Boris Diaw - He's third in the NBA in triple-doubles, and he'd never averaged more than 4.8 PPG before he came to Phoenix. Career highs in FG%, 3P%, rebounding, assists, blocks, and he's averaging more PPG this year than in his first two years combined. Yeah, they'd all be having good years because they're playing on a very good team, but to be having years that are that good, it all comes from the point guard. Kobe is probably the best player in the league (much as it pains me to type that), but he's far from the most valuable to his team. In fact, I think he's probably toward the bottom of that spectrum considering the nosedive the team took after management made it "his" team two years ago. If roles were reversed and it had been Kobe traded to Miami in '04, I really think LA would still be a title contender, and Miami would be the #5 or 6 seed in the East. |
Also, on a totally unrelated note, after tomorrow night's games, I'll post my picks for the All-NBA team.
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Okay, triple post, but...
ESPN just did a pretty cool montage of the "Best 3Ds of the year." It was cool, but it reminded me how badly Iguodala got screwed at the dunk contest. |
Loopydate your post #385 is rediculous. The Lakers decided to take Kobe over Shaq two years ago because he was younger and not injury prone. Both teams are in the playoffs now, and there is nothing else to it.
People need to forget about all the stupid drama that happened two years ago. Kobe is scoring more points than anybody has in a long time this year, and he is leading his awful team into the playoffs. The argument that Kobe shoots too much is immediately void when you look at the people around him. The Lakers should be a rebuilding team right now, but they made the playoffs because Kobe put them on his back. I don't know who I think should be MVP yet, but to rule Kobe out because Shaq wanted out two years ago is just stupid. |
There's a difference between "both teams are in the playoffs" and "one team's going to challenge for the title, and the other might get a game from Phoenix."
And I'm not necessarily saying Kobe shouldn't win MVP because of what happened two years ago. I was refuting IoE's point about "if you take Kobe out, they're mediocre" by saying what would happen if things were different and Kobe actually were taken out. I'm saying he shouldn't win MVP because, despite being the best player in the league, he doesn't make the players around him better, which is usually one of the main criteria for getting an MVP. Nash, LeBron, and Chauncey all make the players around them better. Kobe does not. I would go back and re-read the post before you start attributing false opinions to me again. |
I dunno if I get what your saying about my point. I'm saying you take this current Lakers team and then replace Kobe with an above average shooting guard. Ignore the fact that the Lakers would have had cap room to construct a different team, just put a guy like Jamal Crawford or Cutino Mobley in the starting rotation instead of Kobe. They aren't just mediocre they would have trouble scoring 60 points a night.
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I think Chicago shocks the world and beats Detroit.
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Yeah that Bill Simmons article on ESPN is absolutely great. Kobe has been unbelievable this year. If he doesn't win it this year, he probably never will.
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Kwame has been solid lately, Lamar had back to back triple-doubles, Luke is contributing as well. Kobe's starting to get some help. And it couldn't have come at a better time. The PHX-LAL series WILL BE A GOOD ONE.
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The Heat aren't contending for the NBA Title. The Pistons are the only team in the East with a legit chance at beating San Antonio, Phoenix or Dallas in the finals.
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I like the Lakers so I'll say that they might have a chance of winning. However probably more likely that they'll go down in 6.
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I can't believe the NHL thread has more pages than the NBA thread. Sad.
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loopy, I guess we'll just have to disagree on this one.
I think Odom would be better but not good enough to get them to playoffs. Kobe has been getting triple teamed in games, take that away and Odom and would be getting the double. Also Kobe is a top defender in the league, take him away and the teams defense goes way down. BTW you are forgetting that the Jazz finished a game or 2 out of the playoffs |
A lineup of Smush Parker, Luke Walton, Lamar Odom, Kwame Brown and Brian Cook, with Deavon George, Ronny Turiaf and Andrew Bynum off the bench would not be better than Portland, Minnesota, Golden State and Houston. Well, maybe Portland.
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Thats not my point. You take out the best player from any good team and they are gonna suck.
I'm saying that you need to imagine what the team would be like if you replaced the star player with an above average guy at that position (ie. replace Kobe with Cutino Mobley, Nash with Mike James or Lebron with Caron Butler). You add Cutino Mobley to that list of Lakers and they are still going to be a terrible team |
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