BTW, Twins clinched the AL Central for the third straight year tonight.

The Yanks drop on to the Tornoto andd the sox capitalize by... oh they lost to Baltimore.

Wake has pitched like crap the last month or so... and he's always been a streaky pitcher, they're actually questioning around here if he should be on the playoff roster.

I say he should be, but only starts if needed... as a #4 depending on weather him or Lowe as #4. The way Arrojo's been pitching I put him #3.

I'm not a Mountie :rant:

Your not the mountie? I didn't know you have the equipment to be the Mounter... :shifty: :p :shifty:

hahaha VEL actually made a funny. An honest to god funny.

LMAO

Red Sox are like 9-7 vs the Yankees but then they have a losing record againest Baltimore this season :wtf:

DAMN what a game

Schilling goes 8 scoreless with 14 K's...Foulk gives up runs but then the Sox still win

Magic number drops down to 8.

Boston's definatly got an uphill battle right now.

I forget, does anybody remember what the Twins magic number is??

They won the division already, so they don't need a magic number. :)

Good Boy!

CAAAAAAAABREERRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

STICK IT ORIOLES AND YANKEES! :love:

Are you jumping on the Sox bandwagon this time Wadding?

I've always been a small sox fan, Cabrera's homer last night made me smile :)

Damn lost tonight

Ahhhh. The creative ESPN artists..

http://espn.go.com/i/page2/quickie/040924_quickie.jpg

I'm not feeling too well, and I am thinking of staying in tonight, getting some rest, and watching the Yank's Sox game on ESPN...It is on ESPN right???

lol at Billy Martin holding down the Sox. Looks like Schilling :lol:

Yea, it's on ESPN.

Wow I just got home and put the Sox game on, 5-4 Yanks in the top of the 9th. That Wild Pitch then tag out at the plate was a sweet play. A-Rod is up now...Lets see if Stima was right and the Sox can consistantly occasionally beat Rivera.

Matsui's going crazy.

The Yankee's would be better off if they fired everybody but Jeter, A-Rod, and Matsui and started over.

Yeah Sheffield is terrible

WTF are you talking about BCWWF?

It would be hard not to have 116 RBI's if you were in Sheffiels position..


Obviously I was exagerating, but IMO if you had to fire everybody but three guys offensively, those are the three guys I would keep.

Whoever is advertising Sheffield for MVP is a joke.

Also, thats got to be cheating for the Yankee's to pick up John Olerud. Talk about an in season free agent pick up.

Thats not taking anything away from Sheffield BTW, he is still a great player, one of the best in the game, but his stats are inflated batting in the heart of the Yankee's order.

His stats were better playing on lesser Brave and Dodger teams

He had a career year last year and a comparable year to this one in 1996, otherwise he is already over his career averages in RBI, HR, and one under in doubles. Last years Braves team was arguably just as good offensively if not better than this years Yankees.

Sheffield is playing with, for all intense of purposes, a seperated shoulder. He has been alomost all year. The guy is MVP material.

...oh, and that's coming from someone that doesn't particularily like Chef.

There are generally two different opinions on what the MVP is. One is the best overall player in the league. The other is the most valuble player to their team, meaning the team wouldn't be where they were if it wasn't for him.

I personally don't think he leads either catagory.

Sheffield has been the most consistant and clutch Yankee player all year. So that makes him the most valuable Yankee right there.

He's got some of the best numbers in comparison to other AL players. So that puts him right there as best overall player.

Come on BCWWF, don't be like that.

You could put up a better case for him being the best overall player, as he does have good RBI, HR, etc. Manny, Vlad, Ichiro, could all be considered in that category aswell though.

As for the most important to his team, I honestly don't think that taking Sheffield away would take away their position in the standings. Obviously if you put like Greg Vaughn in his place it might, but just an average/above average guy is all the Yankee's need to keep first place and a huge offense still.

IMO, the following guys were more important to their teams this year: David Ortiz, Ivan Rodriguez, Vlad Guerrero, Travis Haffner, Lew Ford.

Ford obvously won't get any MVP considerations because his numbers weren't spectacular, but if you follow the Twins you would notice little trends like whenever he sat, they lost. He is the only player who was consistant all year, in the first half Hunter, Koskie, Mientkiewicz, Jones, and Rivas were all trash, Blanco didn't do much, and Guzman was OK, but Ford is really the one who held our team together all year. In the end Morneau came up and Hunter, Stewart, and Jones improved, but without a doubt if Ford wasn't there the Twins would probably be in a really close battle for the division right now. Ford isn't the MVP and won't be the MVP, but without him the Twins very well could have been watching the playoffs this year.

Vlad is still the MVP IMO, The Angels would be so fucked without him considering he was their only good player who didn't get injured. He also has the best stats of the 4 main candidates.

WHO THE FUCK CARES. Yankees just Beat the SOX.

Damn...Pedro lost the lead in the 8th :(

Well whatever, the Sox were never really going to win the AL East, and they were always going to make the playoffs. The last week or so is just showing that the Sox really aren't the hot team going into the playoffs, its really going to be anybodys games. Right now the Yankee's probably have the best chance.

God damn, like a week/2 weeks ago I was feeling good about the Sox chances to finally do something in the playoffs. I don't know now though, they gotta beat the Yankees. I don't know what the deal is, Sox were able to beat them at the start of the season but now when it really "counts" they aren't doin' so hot. Pisses me off...Can the god damn Red Sox just win one efffffffffffin World Series?

lol

Sheffield for MVP. :mad:

As much as I want Manny to win it, I think Vlad will probably get the nod. Which would be fine with me, he obviously deserves it. I don't think Sheff should get it personally.

I'd vote for Shef... and I hate the Yanks.. but he carried that team all season while Jeter, A-rod and Giambi couldn't find the plate.

As for the Sox, I fell asleep before the 7th... but from everything I read and people I spoke to, it was another Grady little...

This time of year, Pedro doesn't have 120 pitchers in him... I don't care if its the 6th or 7th or 8th... he hits 105, pull his ass.

Watch, Francona will over react now and Sunday pull schilling early.

The best was Francona after the game... when asked after the HR by Matsui why not pull him. He said something like 'Well, it had only been 2 pitches so if I had taken him out then it would have looked like I made a mistake leaving him in, in the first place'

I swear, I don't care if they win it all, they better fire his ass at the end of the year.

I guess I underestimated Gary

12-5 Sox :cool:

How anti-climactic would that be in the Twins beat the Red Sox in the first round of the playoffs. I'm not saying the Twins are going to win, I am just saying if they do it will be a huge dissapointment. Everyone wants the Red Sox and Yankees ALCS.

Everybody got mad at me for saying it would be cool to see the Cards and Yanks in the World Series, but we all know that if it ends up being the A's and Braves everybody will be dissapointed.

yeah... nice to see Wake work 2/3 of a game and only gave 5 hits and only 3 runs were his fault.

Lesankic has looked good... Faulk still scares me... he not a power closer... His out pitches are never over 90... a closer who doesn't have a fastball scares me... but Foulke has done well.. but when he was with Oakland they didn't make the ALCS.

Tomorrow should be great... I'd expect Brown to step it up and have a classic game... I wouldn't be shocked to see it go 0-0 into the 8th w/ Brown and Schill both still going.

I think Brown will either pitch real well or just absolutely suck it up tomorrow...I'm kinda hoping for the second.

What the hell are you talking about? Do you work for Fox or something? I don't want to see the two biggest and most popular teams. Braves/A's would be an incredible matchup, probably the 2 best starting 5's in the playoffs going at it.

haha, Brown got shelled.

Good thing the rest of the world isn't The Miz

Do you really think the Braves have that good of a starting 5 still?
As for the A's, yeah, last year... this year there pithchers have been off... some suspect mulder is still injured in some form and Zito... well, he seems to have lost his fastball...

But yeah, Healthy and on their game the A's have a sick rotation..

then again, so do the Yanks and the Sox...

(again, healthy and on their "A" game)

I bet you're one of those people who stop watching a game if it's 0-0 after 4 innings

BCWWF check out ESPN2 right now, Red Sox 9-2 Yankees, it's a really great baseball game :y:

When Scott Hatteburg is batting against Mike Hampton I don't really give a shit. When Derek Jeter is hitting against Curt Schilling, theres a difference. In theory no-name teams may be fun, but in reality you forget about it as soon as its over.

That's weird, Scott Hatteberg has been hitting better than Derek Jeter this year. I guess you like lower quality play.

Aaron Boone vs. Tim Wakefield was not a big star matchup, and it was pretty exciting. When was the last time a big star was the difference in the deciding World Series games? Lets look back, deciding factors in the last few World Series clinching games

2003: Josh Beckett (complete game shut out)
2002: John Lackey (complete game 1 run allowed)
2001: Luis Gonzalez (walk off blooper)
2000: Luis Sojo (go ahead rbi)

I don't see Jeter, Rodriguez, Martinez, Clemens, or any other stars anywhere.

I'm sorry, the Red Sox Players are just pieces of shits. Was that necessay to throw at Lofton with an 11-2 lead? Give me a fucking break. And don't even try to tell me he wasn't throwing at him. Joe Torre would NEVER let that happen in a situation like that. Lot of class shown there.

Josh Beckett and Luis Gonzalez aren't stars?

And that doesn't address anything either. You are missing the whole point The last two World Series's weren't spectacular...by that I mean people aren't going to look back and say "Oh when the Angels beat the Giants, that was the best World Series ever!" The best World Series in the past four years was the Yankee's and the Diamondbacks because they were the two of the best teams with big name stars.

Then go back to last year, the ALCS was bigger than the World Series. You could even say that the NLCS was bigger too. The Red Sox were a better known team the Marlins and they have more big name players. Same with the Cubs. The Marlins were probably the better team, but they didn't offer the more exciting series.

Well, I can see BCWWF's point here. The 2002 World Series was the lowest rated Series of all-time. Here's a couple of quotes from an article I found.
---------------------------------------------

"ANAHEIM, Calif. (AP) -- San Francisco wasn't the only World Series loser. Television ratings for the all-California matchup against Anaheim set record lows.

The Angels' seven-game victory over the Giants averaged an 11.9 rating and 20 share, Nielsen Media Research said Monday.

That rating is 24 percent below Arizona's seven-game victory over the New York Yankees last year, which got a 15.7/25, and is 4 percent below the previous record, the Yankees' five-game win over the Mets in the 2000 Subway Series (12.4/21).

With the Yankees not in the World Series for the first time since 1997, the all-California matchup set record lows for an opener (9.4), Game 2 (11.9), Game 3 (10.8), Game 4 (11.8), Game 5 (10.0), Game 6 (11.8) and Game 7"
-----------------------

Take that for what you will.

Josh Beckett is a star now because of that World Series, but not really before it.

Now that was called for.

Miz is going to argue that ratings don't matter and the gameplay was better in those years, but I am going to argue that a series like that isn't very exciting. Now that we skipped that stage, whats next?

And nobody try to act smug if the Twins make the World Series, because obviously I will be going crazy, but I would understand that most of the United States wouldn't really give a damn.

Beckett and Burnett were huge prospects for the past three years or so. They were the only thing the Marlins had going for them before the World Series. Most people knew who they were before the World Series, that game just put Beckett in the spotlight. Before that he was good but nobody cared. And yes, I knew Burnett was injured. If I'm not mistaken he was supposed to be the better pitcher of the two, wasn't he?

No, Lofton is a piece of shit, was there any need for Lofton to throw an elbow at Mancavietz?

MAYBE, JUST MAYBE part of the reason for that is the time difference between the East and West Coasts and how that relates to starting times for the games.

Its the same way with the NBA, everybody hates the Lakers, but when the Spurs are in the NBA finals it was boring as shit. Big market teams and big market players make more exciting games. Generally.

A lot of it has to do w/ the big markets (TV) and while the West Coast is a huge market, it's never really driven sports wise.

As for the start times, I thought during the WS they started games early so they hit primetime?

:y:

Yea throwing it at Dave Robert's chin was pretty classy too. The pitch to Lofton was obviously done on purpose, no denying that but it was thrown way behind him.

Supposively last year when Pedro threw at the head of (I forget, it was either Posada or that random right fielder) and then pointed to his own head and everybody got mad and Zimmer ran across the field...He was actually saying "I'll remember you said that" and now "I am throwing at your head." Who believes that?

Pedro throws at people all the time. I guess its like the old line "it takes 2 to tango" it goes both ways. That "real classy" thing in my other post was only there because LC said something about class in his post. No matter what happens, usually both teams show the same amount of "class" or whatever.

I think that was the same game that hick looking pitcher Nelson or whatever got into a fight with a Fenway Staff member in the bullpen LOL

The Pedro thing had nothing to do w/ yesterday.

As for last year, if Pedro wanted to hit someone in the head he would have, he gets the same rep as clemens cause they both pitch inside and have no fear of backing a player off of the plate. Some players actually hang over the plate and wear "armour" on their arms to take hits if it comes inside.

Ortiz talked after the game that Mancaveitz/Lofton goes back a few years that Lofton always feels Manc steps to far back on the bag and is rude about it, Manc understand getting bumped or elbows but Lofton does it every single time.

So, yesterday, Lofton gave Manc the Elbow and he got sick of it.

Yes, the Sox threw at lofton in retaliation, I'm ok with that since they threw behined him, it wasn't even close to hitting him.

and, I'm even ok if the Yanks feel the need to respond, but there's no need to throw chin music like they did to Roberts, that was BS.

My only hope is if these two teams meet in the ALCS they don't pre-warn both teams... because taking the inside part of the plate away from the pitchers would ruin it for both teams.

Pedro didn't point to his head till after the benches cleared if I remember correctly and no one knows for sure what he said.. another was he was saying "use your head" or "think about it" meaning if he wanted to hit someone in the head he would have.

Others have said he did threaten Porsada...

But no one knows for sure... but again, yesterdays issue had nothing to do with that, as Ortiz explained it actually goes back a few years to when both players were on different teams I believe (Mancaveitz was a Twin, not sure, Lofton might have been a yankee, but I thought maybe a White Sox or Cleveland?)

ok, first I'm now calling him Doug M. since I realised how off I was on his last name.

Anyway, here's the article where Ortiz talks about it... Doug was w/ Minnesota and Kenny w/ Cleveland.

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSo...rticleid=46163

Old foes intensify rivalry
By Stephen Harris
Monday, September 27, 2004

Big league first basemen and baserunners, for their mutual well-being, normally try to avoid making contact with each other.

Fenway fans were reminded yet again yesterday that the rivalry between the Red Sox [stats, schedule] and New York Yankees [stats, schedule] can hardly be called normal, and they also got a firsthand glimpse of a rather nasty ongoing tiff between Sox first baseman Doug Mientkiewicz [stats, news] and Yanks outfielder Kenny Lofton.

Competitively, the drama was over early on a sun-drenched afternoon in the Fens, as the Sox lit up Yankees starter Kevin Brown, took a 7-0 second-inning lead and breezed to an 11-4 win. But the third-inning confrontation between Mientkiewicz and Lofton on a routine ground ball out sparked the always-simmering tension and anger that exists between the ancient AL rivals.

On the play at first, Mientkiewicz seemed to partially block Lofton's path over the bag, and Lofton delivered an elbow to the first baseman's back as he ran past. The incident led to an exchange of apparent message pitches and three ejections.

The first payback was delivered by Sox reliever Pedro Astacio, who buzzed a fastball behind Lofton's posterior in the seventh inning, earning Astacio a quick ejection and prompting an official warning to both dugouts. In the next inning, innocent bystander Dave Roberts [stats, news] barely ducked away from a high and tight pitch from Yanks rookie left-hander Brad Halsey. The chin music brought both teams streaming out of the dugouts and bullpens, although no one came to blows. Halsey and Yankees manager Joe Torre were tossed from the game.

While both Mientkiewicz and Lofton faulted the other, Sox slugger David Ortiz [stats, news] candidly explained the genesis of the friction between the pair.

``How it started? It started with a little bump at first one time on a play just like that,'' said Ortiz, who was a Minnesota teammate of Mientkiewicz' some years back when Lofton, then with the Indians, first made contact at first.

``Lof say he was across the bag, and Mientkiewicz say he was too far away for him to bump, and blah, blah, blah,'' Ortiz said with a hearty laugh. ``I guess they pretty much bump all the time. I guess they don't like each other from a long time.

``Kenny is not a bad guy, and my boy (Mientkiewicz), I guess I'm going to have to put them together someday and take them out for dinner, see if we can fix things up. Because every time something happens between them, they start screaming at each other. You want to see some punches or something - no, I'm just kidding.''

The two foes, who exchanged angry words immediately after yesterday's inning-ending play, were unapologetic following the game.

``It's not the first time it's happened,'' Mientkiewicz said. ``We had an altercation in Cleveland, too, a few years ago. It's been fine since. I don't talk to him at first. When I continue to get rap shots, I don't appreciate it. I get elbowed every day, but when it's continually the same guy every time, I don't appreciate it. I have no problem with Kenny Lofton, but I don't appreciate continued elbows in the back.''

Lofton was equally aggravated.

``Most (first basemen) catch the ball and pretty much get off the base. But with him, that's not the case with me, I guess,'' Lofton said. ``It's the only time it's happened to me. There are plays where a guy has to reach for the ball or something, and you bump into him. Both players will say, as a courtesy, `Oh, my bad,' and he says, `No, his bad.'And it's cool and you let it go. But like I said, it doesn't happen with him and me, I don't know why. I think it (happened) more than once (before).''

So now the Red Sox-Yankees battle, which could be joined anew in a couple of weeks in the American League Championship Series, has a new edge. Just what these teams needed: More reason to dislike each other.

Oh come on though. You really believe he wasn't trying to hit him dead on? That miss was by accident just like that one dude missed Clemens a couple of years back to get revenge for Piazza. LOL.

And yeah, the Yanks picture (forgot his name) shouldn't of thrown up and in like that. He should of just threw it at his stomach or whatever.

Also when I played ball, I hated when the 1ST Basemen would cover the whole bag. You can break your ankle like that when your running hard and your trying to get your foot on the bag. I played 1ST Base and I always had the side of my cleets on the bag so I wouldn't get spiked or whatever.

Lol, I had no idea you were talking about Mientkiewicz that whole time.

But I was just bringing up the Pedro thing because I saw some sort of biography on him on FSN and thats what he said, and it is kind of a similar situation as to what happened yesterday.

That whole story sounds like a bunch of little girls whining. The original incident could only have happened in 2001, get over it.

Pitchers throw behined batters all the time and get the same reaction from a batter as hitting them, so yeah, I think that was the intent.

Red Sox are playoff bounddddddddddddd

Hopefully this topic is as entertaining last years :cool:

I was so pissed they celebrated... WTF... you don't celebrate going to the playoffs as 2nd place.

Celebrate a div title, not a wild card.

"Yes. It is true. It brings me great shame to admit it, but the Yankees are my Daddy. I never knew until recently because my father left my mother before I was born.

"The Dodgers, of course, are my mother, and I loved her as I love life itself. She was the most beautiful woman in the world; and when I close my eyes now, I can still see her dressed in the purest whites and deepest blues you have ever seen. She sacrificed everything to raise me and my older brother, Ramon. She worked in the fields until her hands were raw and her back ached, and yet she always found time in the early evening to teach Ramon and I how to throw a beanball.


"One day when I was six and Ramon was nearly 10, we asked our mother about our father -- who he was and where he lived and when he would come home to teach us how to throw sliders. She only told us that our father was a very bad man, and then began weeping. She walked into her room, closed the door and stayed inside for three days. She ate nothing and drank only the tears that ran down her cheeks. We could hear her sobs even when we turned up 'Welcome Back Kotter' very loud; and when she finally emerged from the room, she said that we were never to ask her any questions about our father again. I tell you, these were the saddest moments of my life until Grady Little left me in too long in Game 7.


"Looking back now, I suppose there were clues to my father's identity I should have recognized if only I had opened my eyes wide enough to examine them closely. But so much of life is a deception, is it not? Even now, many Red Sox fans think we are going to win the World Series.


"I once caught my mother opening a worn shoebox and pulling out faded black and white photos of her when she was a girl in Brooklyn. Then she looked at a photograph of her as a young woman smiling with a man in pinstripes. When she looked at it, she made a strange sound and I could not tell whether she was laughing or crying -- it was similar to the sound Red Sox fans make at the beginning of each October. I asked who the man in the picture was, and she quickly put the photos away. She said only that he was a rich man she once knew in New York, and that I should not sneak up on her anymore and should instead go outside and practice knocking down 72-year-old men with Ramon.


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width=5 rowSpan=2><SPACER height="1" width="5" type="block"></TD><TD width=195></TD></TR><TR><TD width=195></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>"My mother also had a beautiful ring she kept protected under the mattress. Ramon and I never were allowed to look at it closely, but she would occasionally take it out to slip on her finger. We could see that it was gold with a ruby in the middle and small diamonds surrounding it and some sort of inscription. We asked why she didn't sell it in the market so that we could move into a better neighborhood with cable TV, and she said it was all she had left from our father and that she would never sell it. I understand now that it is a World Series ring, though of course, I have never seen such a thing up close.


"My mother died just before I reached the majors, and I was always sad that she never got a chance to see me pitch. But worse was the longing I felt for my father. Whenever I would see Ken Griffey Jr. or Barry Bonds or Aaron Boone, I would feel such jealousy. Why did they have fathers in the game, and I did not even know who mine was? And why did they always hit so many home runs in extra innings? I would be so envious that I wanted to hit them all in the head with my pitches. And I usually did.


"And then I visited my old, beloved aunt, the Expos, in Montreal this summer. She said that she would be moving soon, she did not know where, and that I should know the truth about my father in case she never saw me again. She said that the Yankees were my Daddy and that though they were dishonorable and had treated my mother very badly by not marrying her and never once paying child support, I must seek them out and resolve our relationship, though perhaps I should have my agent phone first.


"It was painful to learn, but at least now I know the truth. The Yankees are my Daddy and I look forward to reuniting soon and getting to know him as a son should know his father, perhaps beginning next season if he will offer me a four-year, $60 million contract. Perhaps he will even take me to the World Series.


"But the truth about my father is not the most amazing thing I learned. No, the strangest part is what else I discovered.


"Don Zimmer is my crazy uncle."


From ESPN

LOL. What the hell?

nobody is reading that

Lol, what Yash said

LOL Don Zimmer

Lowe isn't in the playoff rotation...I bet he will be gone next season too

Especially w/ his agent... probably pulling his hair out, cause they also turned down a contract which is more then they'll get from anyone.

Priority #1 is Teck and he's going to cost a lot.

#2, if you can get a reasonable price, maybe a 2yr w/ 3rd yr option I'd go after Pedro.

YUP 1-0

Thats the way to run the bases Bellhorn :ROLL:

Fuck You All :rant:

NOMAR WHO?

Careful, someones going to accuse you of being a whiner and not being able to get over Nomar leaving the Red Sox... :lol: :rofl:

So, it's ok for me to root for the Angels Friday so I can see the sox win the series on Saturday? Right? Right? Yeah I know... 3 game sweep would be nice, especially if the other ALDS goes 5 games.

It's too bad nobody over 40 posts here, you would probably be the funniest guy around

lol

***Insert sexual joke about Miz's mother here***

No but other things then the Nomar trade has turned this team around. I didn't really agree with the trade at 1st, but I am starting to like it now. Time will tell though to see how things really pan out, still a long way to go.

Sox up 2-0 right now, hopefully get the sweep tomorrow. After what happened last year with the A's, I know anything is possible but I think the Sox will win tomorrow

I questioned the trade at first till I looked at the stats... but considering he was going to walk at the end of the year, and wouldn't be healthy all season, I figured anything was better then nothing.

Yeah, a sweep would be nice, I'm not worried about us taking the final 3 from oakland last year, since two of them were at home. I'd be shocked if Anehiem took 2 in fenway. Although, they were saying Arrojo has had trouble against them.

Do you guys remember me asking if the Red Sox were giving up on their season by trading for Cabrera. :lol: How wrong was I. He really came through.

Yea overall the trade seems to be working out. Nomar is still one of my all time favorite Red Sox though. I didn't get to catch the game tonight, since I had a game of my own but I am glad to hear about what happened. One more step closer to the World Series....DONT BREAK MY HEART AGAIN SOXXXXXXXXXXX

You know they'll end up losing to like the Astro's or something. Its always the last team you'd think.

Wow, I was stuck at work from 5-11. We had the worst reception from the little AM radio and I was still going nuts.

Sox Yanks Round 2