Little dramatic there.

Thats fair. Like most childrens films the writing is suspect

To each his own. Killing Snoke reshuffled the deck for episode 9. Killing him was the next step for Ren. He killed Snoke. He killed Han. He is unshackled.

If you want to complain about wasted characters I’ll give you Phasma.

Rey’s parents being nobodies is an answer. It may not be the answer you thought but it’s an acceptable answer that works with Rey’s character and the setup of this film.

Phasma is def the fett of this cycle. Character you want to be cool but isnt.

That's absurd. Not being old enough (to what btw? Gauge public review of the first trilogy to contrast the new ones? What?) didn't mean I wasn't able to understand initial criticisms of the prequel trilogy. Anymore than it makes me unable to review Prometheus in the context of the Alien saga because 'I didn't exist when Alien launched'. That is a piss poor dodge to excuse whatever issues I have when a long enough franchise starts skirting its own ruleset.

Nor is it even the save you want it to be; by today's story telling telling standards Rey would still be poorly written in TFA, Snoke would still be panned as a wasted villain (something no franchise even the MCU can get away with), and the retooling of how the Force works becomes nonsensical. Taken in a vacuum, it still doesn't work. So miss me with the 'you were too young to get it, but you're also now too old for it' line. Please. That alone is inconsistent.

You like it or accept it. Cool. Whatever. But don't go pretending we (Kalyx and Fignuts!) don't understand something about Star Wars. You are much better off saying you like it and don't care about things we're pointing out.

The retooling of the Force is by far the best thing they’ve done.

On NUMEROUS occasions it has been claimed in this thread that somehow this is different than palpatine. And it absolutely isnt. The only thing that has changed is you. The aging viewer. Who clearly has no concept now as to who the demo is. Yiu are older, grumpier to boot, and think this film needs to gear itself toward a more die hard audience.

It doesnt. Infact it would probably kill the franchise. The films have never been for hardcore staf wars nerds, a fact the star wars nerds have never been able to get a good grip on.

If you dont nerd rage for palpatine you cant for snoke. The standards,despite your best claims, havent changed. I know this because ever kid in the theater fucking loved the film.

If the franchise isnt for you anymore than just admit it. But dont ask it to change to suit your ever changing needs.

The variable is the viewer not the writing

Obviously too young to have lived thru it, but where there complaints are the swerves the 2nd and 3rd film threw at the audience at time of release?

Like, were people upset at the "
..I am your father" like coming out of nowhere and rendering the "he murdered your father" line in the first film useless?

Were people upset that the Emperor was tossed to his death with little backstory? Legit curious.

@ wwe

Except it makes what Darth Plagus did impossible. And the Skywalkers, who were supposed to be the connective tissue of the series due to their affinity to the Force (itself potentially because of what Plagus did), is now like... just people the Force choose to be that strong?

I have no issue with this 'avatars of the light and dark' neo/smith thing got going with Kylo and Rey. I'd even accept Rey getting so strong BECAUSE Luke cut himself off for years, forcing the Force to choose a new avatar for the light. It would even explain her being OP and add more credit to Rey actually sympathizing with Kylo during their magic snapchats.

But I guarantee I've just put more thought into it then they did just now.

Jedis have been around for thousands of years. There were many Jedi heroes long before the Skywalkers.

There were sith long before the Empire. I don’t get your point.

I'm not a hardcore Star Wars fan. I loved the last 2 films. And TLJ is prob my second fave, right behind Empire.

Was Dark Plagus mentioned before the prequels? That'd be pretty cool idea to expand on in their spinoff series

Asking them to make sense of Snoke is not a die hard fan notion. My issues with their vehicle design and lightsaber choreography is nerd shit. Here I'm just saying using Snoke as a miniboss with no kind of context is lame. Even if this was a new franchise. He was clearly played on his mystery last time. He'd never be presented that way if they knew he was gonna get put down without so much as a motivation speech.

Vader being Luke's father is a historic twist that paid off Obi-Wan's comments the movie before. Was it a stunt? Most likely, from a certain point of view. But even this example made use of some established history, it wasn't completely out of nowhere.

I'm gonna throw this out and guess nobody cared enough about Sidious' origins. It was the 80s. He's a badguy. He has to go. lol EVEN THEN, he was positioned as ultimate evil and master to Vader as Yoda was mentor to Luke. That was all we needed. To say Snoke can pull off the same lack of background after decades of world building is crazy.

Yep. Episode 3, Palpatine explained to Anakin his backstory in the form of a parable. He revealed that his master found a way to create life which is heavily implied to explain the eventual virgin birth of... Anakin. Which then explains why the Skywalkers were freaks of nature, which works whether by midichlorians or affinity to a mystic force. It's consistent either way.

Not anymore.

Most people were losing their minds over how cool it was and just enjoying the movie. But there were fignuts then bitching about the cannon error, yeah. Had a friend who didn't see 6 until we told them the retcon with obi won in 6. And lets be clear....that was total retcon. Vader was not a skywalker when lucas wrote 4.

This fan theory for the record.

I have explained this like 10 times in this thread.

Oh you said before. Oops.

But all but obvious.

How people reacted to the original trilogy is completely irrelevant.

No yiuve said things that are flat out false because youre too young to actual,y fucking know and are just talking out of your ass. Youre literally lying when you say no one cared.

No it isnt. Its everything. It clearly demonstrates that youve changed not the franchise.

Nobody cared. Not even the mountains of EU material approached it, and I was alive to see nobody asking for his origin story THEN.

It has and it hasn't.

You're correct in your previous statement that it's practices and tropes have "stayed authentic to itself."

It has changed in that there is now more history in the story, that makes staying authentic harder to do, while telling a coherent story.

The more you add to the history, and the lore, the more plot holes bad writing decisions are going to evolve if you ignore the history just remain true to the tropes that have been a part of the series. And the thing is, it doesn't even need those tropes. They aren't necessary to make star wars unique and special.

Why even do a sequel if we weren't in some fashion an essential part of the demo anyway? Just reboot it.

Also, people's reactions to palpatine isn't relevant, because this arguement isn't about that.

It's about comparing a mysterious powerful figure introduced in a trilogy with no preceding history vs a mysterious powerful figure introduced in a trilogy with a TON of preceding history.

That's it. Doesn't matter fuck all how people reacted, because it can't change bad writing.

A lot of tissues are needed in here. Jesus Christ.

Shut up, meg.

I don't think Smoke is dead. Rem isn't intimidating enough to be the main bad guy at all. Believe in Snoke.

I would hold out hope but that gag scene with hux kind of makes me think no.

This post makes no sense. As a stated earlier there have been a thousand generations of Jedi and Sith. The sky walkers weren’t the first powerful beings.

We still have another 2.5 hours of story to go. Ren is the clear villain. They have had two films now to reveal his backstory of succumbing to the dark side, because while we know he worships his grandfather, and we can see he's conflicted, the part where he committed to Snoke is still missing. No reason to think it won't be touched on in the finale of this trilogy.

With all the comic books and novels coming out as well, it is a sure thing that we won't have to wait as long to find out the origin story of Snoke as we did the emperor

Send me your address. I will get tissues sent to you on tuesday.

Give me yours, so I can send you some drizzling shits. Figure it's right up your alley since you loved this movie so much.

its gotta be kane86

This line probably sums up the new movie best.

Destor,

I think your argument of 'you were not alive' to see the old movies on Day 1 of 1977 is invalid.

By that standard of thought anyone younger than you should have a stronger opinion because it is the younger audience the movies are geared towards (in your words) and we're younger and closer to that age than you so perhaps our opinion shoulder carry more weight?

Pretty silly argument, either way.

Some people liked it and some people didn’t. Thank you for continuing to establish that.