You both deserve it :mad:

TBF, I'd been up since 5.30am, worked from 6am-8pm and just watched Mania. Didn't really expect to last through to 4am for the end of Raw.

Thanks for the stream though, rep given.

That made my rep a nice even number :y:

I'm in the same boat (boot,eh?) Co-worker off for a few days, so long hours. Going to watch on YT later.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...2&feature=plcp

Someone has posted all of Raw already on YT

Also Tensai stole Kurrgan the Interrogator's finisher with that hand claw thing...

Still watching Raw as we speak. Just enjoyed the first Mark Henry match since whenever D'Lo Brown running powerbombed him. Awesome match and kind of surprised.

I kind of hope that next week John Laurinaitis forces CM Punk to defend the WWE Title against Mark Henry in a Steel Cage Match -- so "Punk can't get himself counted out to retain his title." The finish sees Henry grab Punk as he is trying to escape, and Punk manages to fight Henry off and send him crashing to the mat. Chris Jericho runs out with a steel chair and begs Punk to come off the cage so he can get whacked with it. Punk then defiantly hits a Savage Elbow into Henry and pins him.

A) It gives Punk a credible victory over a monster heel.

B) It continues to build to Punk vs. Jericho at Extreme Rules.

C) It would be fucking awesome.

Lord Tensai's gimmick is kinda lame, love his moves though.

Everything else was brilliant. Really hoping Brock destroys Cena to give him more self-doubt and a more interesting character.

Was they chanting "shave yr back" to Tensai during his match?

Pretty sure I heard it along with the A-Train chants :lol:

Haven't seen anything of RAW yet except for Lesnar. And holy shit. I kinda spoiled it for myself by checking Twitter, so I just went and watched it, but fuck man. That was amazing. And the crowd went legit insane. Probably the biggest immediate pop since the days of Austin's height. Yes, it was a smarter/hardcore fanbase, but holy shit the pop and chants were amazing.

So happy to see Brock back. As much of an asshole he is, as much of a crybaby he can be, I can't wait to see this beast wrestle again.

Dont know if anyone already posted this but the dark match is fucking amazing, crowd rips everyone but Danielson to bits

:lol: @ the kicks @ 8:20 -

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Going to Raw week after next in London, the YES! chants had better make their way across the Atlantic.

Wonder how many kids herd fuck you for the first time during that fuck you Cena chant.

That Dark Match was hilarous.

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M. Bryan

Dolph was still able to do a sit-up in midair before falling down.

That Daniel Bryan dark match/segment was fucking incredible. The true definition of an overnight sensation.

Overall Raw was fantastic this week. One of the best and most memorable Raw in years. Mostly due to the crowd, but everything just went really well. The matches themselves were pretty average, but the booking and the promos and of course, the crowd, made this an incredible show.

Wasn't able to watch last night, watching now and loving the YES! chants :lol:

That might have been the best Raw I've ever seen

The responsibility falls on you tonight, Smackdown! crowd. Continue the YES! chants, force Vince's hand, and let the clusterfuck of WM 28 be DB's catalyst to superstardom.

Oh and... BROCK LESNAR

I think Cena needs to disappear for a while, make a surprise return to go after Brock and do the sporadic appearance thing. It's the best thing for his character to not have him on tv every week. Lets guys like Punk get more over too and reach that next level.

Speaking of Punk, I would give my left testicle to see him beat Rock next year at WrestleMania and retain the WWE title.

Damn, gutted I missed Raw. Had to leave Miami yesterday to get back for classes/couldn't really afford to stay an extra night. Crazy crowd. All I saw were British football shirts (nothing new for Wrestlemania weekend) but wow. Seemed like the 50/50 of Americans and internationals made it pretty special. Goes to show how truly happy everyone was with Wrestlemania this year as they turned up at Raw the next night in amazing spirit. It's never usually like that.

Raw makes me miss the Monday night wars. It's ridiculous NOW to think that grown men used to get together in droves and throw parties for wrestling on Monday night but last night's Raw would have been worthy of one.

Surely Jericho was ribbed by people when he got backstage. :(

Ribbed for his pleasure.

i managed to avoid reading/seeing anything about brock lesner before mania, and raw..that part at the end with cena, i kept telling myself how bad i wanted to hear lesners music hit, just to see the crowds reaction..sure enough, goosebumps..that had to be one of the biggest pops ever..

Whose body is that?

Gonna be disappointed if the YES!'s don't continue from the crowd next week.

^ Then we'll yell, "NO NO NO NO NO NO!!!!"

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Hahaha. Love the part where he shut up AJ and pointed out the ring for her.. Awww.

Surprised Sheamus got the heel treatment pop from the crowd sooo much.

Okay, I'll word it differently.

Brock Lesnar got pushed because he's Brock Lesnar.

John Cena got pushed for lack of a better option. Make more sense now?

being in this crowd was off the chain amazing . Seeing brock return live was the best

What? John Cena was on fire when he got his first push leading into WrestleMania 21. Everyone loved him.

...and it lasted all of 8 months until people were shitting on him. John Cena was over, but he given that super-push because Brock and others had left and forced them to rush Cena, Orton, and Batista to the top and give them megapushes.

I said nothing about how it ended up or how on fire he was 8 months later...

But he was easily the next big thing when he first got his push. His character becoming more "Hogan-esque" in it's mass pandering and the fact that WWE has been so shitty at long-term booking for so long screwed it up but you can't tell me he was simply "the best option". That's completely downplaying how over he was.

Santino is just as fucking over right now, but he isn't ready to be thrust into that spot.

There's a pretty big difference between Santino and John Cena circa 2004. lol

They both are cartoonish characters who are over huge, getting great crowd reactions, have gimmicky moves over, held midcard championships, and been teased in main event matches with success.

? Umm... define "cartoonish". lol

You can't seriously tell me you don't see how John Cena could have been looked at as the next mega-star in wrestling and Santino isn't. Jesus. They're night and day. Cena was a serious contender who was actually having serious, good matches and feuds in the main event with guys like Lesnar and The Undertaker. Santino is a comedy character who was generally getting squashed and used as fodder and then had one week where he tasted a main event tease and then the next night was beaten in like one minute by the champion to re-establish his place.

Really, James Steele? Really?

Oh, and I forgot to add in the fact that Santino got his tease just days before the PPV because someone got injured and they needed a replacement for a SIX PERSON MATCH.

The only difference is the level of push they are getting. They tied Cena to a rocket because Lesnar left a huge void in the main event and so they had to push him way too hard and way too fast. Which is why fans turned on him once he was working with established mega-stars like Angle, HHH, HBK, etc. Edge, JBL, and The Miz are the only heels to get Cena cheered. Cena was "ready" to be champion, but Cena wasn't ready to be given 1 1/2 year initial run with the belt (He held the title from WM21 to ECW One Night Stand except for a 3 week run from Edge).

I... I don't know what to say at this point.

AND HE WAS FUCKING OVER AND HAS BEEN OVER FOR A LONG FUCKING TIME! The Cobra and Cobra Sock is no more fucking stupid than the 5 Knuckle Shuffle and padlock necklace.

He's a fucking comedy character! lol

Cena was booked as a legit tough guy. I guess if you wanna call his rapper persona "cartoonish" that's fine but holy fuck, you can't not see the difference. Santino is taylor made to come out and be comedy fodder. And he's good at it. Even while never getting legit big wins. He's over from it. Doesn't make sense to make him WORLD CHAMPION.

Cena was cocky and he joked but he took guys like Lesnar and Undertaker to the limit. Fuck the gimmick, he was actually booked to look on par with guys. What are you not getting?

I'm saying that if they actually booked Santino to "take guys to the limit" while keeping his quirky attributes, he would be over like Cena was in 2004. People went fucking nuts when he almost won the Rumble and they went nuts on the build to Mania, and they loved him at WrestleMania.

Well, this all sounds like praise of Santino more than knocking of Cena.

I personally think IF they started booking Santino with the ability to legitimately wrestle, he'd be huge so if you're trying to use him as an example to knock Cena's push, you're talking to the wrong person. lol

Anyway, what the original point of this was 72 hours ago was that Brock Lesnar leaving forced WWE to push Cena, Orton, and Batista too soon. Orton showed just how ill-prepared he was and they pulled the plug after a month. Cena and Batista went on fucking ungodly title runs that they couldn't sustain because they were ready for title runs and main event spots, but not as "faces of the company" which is why once they got out of their initial feuds and went on to face other stars, Cena especially, they got exposed. Cena began getting shit on by the fans when he feuded with Jericho, and it all started snowballing big time once he faced Angle and then Triple H all the way through today. Batista was able to be protected more since his push was more organic with the feud with Triple H and getting injured and keeping him off TV for awhile.

Cena was a victim of bland booking/the change of character.

Shitty booking/character development can force the best to get bland and booed quickly. See: The Rock

And I'm not even just talking about Rocky Maivia. How many times as face Rock did the crowd go Cena on him?

Occasionally, but he rolled with the punches and evolved. (Ex: "Hollywood Rock" circa 03) Cena has enough stroke to say "Let's try this."

Well, yeah. I don't think anyone would blame Rock though. He was booked as a face who talked shit a lot and got beat a lot and it got bland. Cena hasn't and won't turn heel anytime soon. His character changed though and the booking of his feuds were terribly formulaic for that span when the crowd turned on him. That's why I'm saying booking is such a huge part of it. With the right booking, you can easily push a talented guy to the world title in a short amount of time and keep him over. It just takes consistency.

Austin's shit was formulaic, and you can't tell me the monster trucks and beer baths kept him "fresh".

Austin wins title --> Austin pisses off Vince --> Vince stacks the deck --> Austin overcomes somehow --> Austin does something ridiculous with heavy machinery to piss off/embarrass Vince --> Vince finally screws Austin --> Austin finds loophole to get back in title hunt --> Austin wins title -->

Am I wrong? The biggest difference is Austin's initial run on top was only 2-3 years (Late 97 through Survivor Series 99) and not fucking 7 like Cena.

Austin was ushering in something completely new. The stuff with McMahon was something people had never seen before. It's arguably the greatest rivalry in wrestling history...

I mean, if you're gonna call stuff formulaic in retrospect, Hogan's feuds were pretty damn formulaic. At the time though, holy shit.

They made the formula work, and Cena hasn't be able to do that. Hence why he comes off like a lesser star than those guys no matter how hard they push him. He is no doubt a huge star, but I don't think anyone but the kiddos look at him as on the same level as Hogan, Rock, Austin, etc.

can we import that Miami crowd to every Raw from now on?

This "Cena hasn't been able to do that" thing is what I have the problem with.

A major part of Austin was the character and the writing aside from the man himself.

A major part of Cena is/was the character and the writing aside from the man himself.

For Austin it was amazing and cutting edge. For Cena it was bland and boring.

And thus, the crowd reactions followed. The problem wasn't "Cena wasn't ready." He was. He was getting the reactions. He was there. If you continue to book him well, he stays over. The problem was the writers didn't know how to book wrestling in a way interesting enough to please people other than little kids who could care less about intriguing storylines and women who think "OMG JOHN CENA IS SOOOO HAWT!" He went from the character people were so much behind in the JBL feud to becoming Hogan and a main event character that older people had seen before with no creativity behind it. I don't think Cena ever really sucked with what he was given to do. He was given shit to do though.