Great episode of Raw with a lot of solid matches. What the fuck were you watching you shithead?

take it easy, slick damo.

Please explain why it was solid.

Every match was good except for the total dives match. Plus we got Rollins and Ambrose in a hell in a cell. Pretty good Raw.

I did when I said solid matches. Now you explain why you think it was shitty. Cena didn't applaud him so don't use that.

Yes in fact he did, if you have it pvr'd I would like you to replay it and watch.


He lost a match that he wanted "very badly" loses it, applauds he guy who beat him, the turns his attention to Orton. How does that make any sense? Not showing one ounce of anger that he lost the match.

He knows Ortons the main threat, remember he never got beat for the WWE title.

Love Cena. Love Orton.

... But Jesus fucking Christ, enough.

<font color=goldenrod>Orton barging in and saying he wants to face the loser in the main event now makes total sense. There's zero chance Cena/Orton goes on before Ambrose/Rollins even though the latter match will be far superior.

Cena/Orton is possibly the most overdone match in the history of wrestling.</font>

<font color=goldenrod>Actually now that I think about it...it's feasible that Ambrose/Rollins will need to tone it down a bit so as to not give Orton/Cena too hard of an act to follow.

This isn't even the first time Orton/Cena have been in a HIAC together ffs.</font>

Dunno how I feel about the outcome. We get Rollins/Ambrose in the Cell, which should be great, but it feels like a feud ender which would be a shame. This is one they should drag out.

Conversely, we get a feud that's been strung out far too long; Orton vs. Cena is past stale. With no story behind it, it's a bit of a nothing match. And this will probably go on last.

And if it isn't the longest match I the card, it'll damn we'll feel like it.

I don't think there's any way the Hell in a Cell card looks like this if they're still trying to sell it 100% on PPV.

<font color=goldenrod>John Cena vs. Randy Orton

<s>ONCE</s>
<s>TWICE</s>
<s>THRICE</s>
TWENTY FIVE TIMES IN A LIFETIME!</font>

Seth Rollins' butt clenched as Randy Orton super-plexed Ziggler from the top rope.

Now why would you notice that?

Who would you guys want Cena and Orton to face at the ppv then?

I would want to have the show booked to where there aren't just four guys hovering around the main event and a huge drop off to a bunch of other guys.

As it stands, there's no heat anymore behind a match that's been done to death and doesn't even draw intrigue as a Raw main event. I'd rather see all four guys in a fatal fourway. Maybe put something on the line. If you're gonna have Rollins win it, put the case on the line. It's a fucking PPV. I know they've decided they can half-ass it since the network came along and there's no need to even have the title defended but at least give people some reason to care enough to actually pay money to watch the event.

Love the Fatal Fourway idea, but no need for a briefcase to ruin it. Can we go a week without somebody suggesting to put the briefcase on the line in a second match. It's NOT a title. Rollins won it and it should be his to cash in when he wants to. It shouldn't be thrown around like a hot potato. If they wanted somebody else to win they should have booked them to win the match in Boston.

They need to stick with their choice unless he gets hurt or does something to get suspended. The briefcase being on the line is a cheap selling point. You're better than that. Vince Russo isn't though which is why he suggests it every time he can. Don't be lemon, don't be a Russo be a rosebud!

It's good the way it is. We have an established feud for protection in case Rollins and Ambrose don't blow the roof off the PPV and steal the show. They will probably blow the roof off and steal the show. An established feud with notoriety will get the viewers attention to buy the show. Cena/Orton has been done to death for one reason: the match sells tickets. Like it or not. I don't like it but it is what it is.

True. They would have Rollins/Ambrose in a regular match and not inside the Hell in the Cell.

They need a cheap selling point at this point because the booking alone is not nearly good enough to sell non-title matches for a PPV. And notice how I said " If you're gonna have Rollins win it, put the case on the line." You don't do it as a way to take the case off of him. Do it as a way to make people care about the outcome of the match. I don't like the idea. I'd rather they be able to book a huge, well hyped main event that gives people a reason to pay $55 for. They failed. So they need to find a cheap reason.

Ambrose vs Rollins is a fine match with a pretty good build. Neither guy is a headliner at this point though. Cena and Orton is your main event by default and it just happened for free on Raw not long ago. And it was forgettable. I seriously don't remember the outcome (though it was probably a DQ because... well... Raw.) Throwing a cell over them and having nothing at stake does not take it from forgettable Raw main event to PPV main event.

Absolutely agree. Really with everything but especially the bolded part.

Storyline-wise it would make no sense for HHH to put the case on the line.

You can make a storyline where it makes sense.

You can just as easily say "Storyline-wise it made no sense for Triple H to give Daniel Bryan a million chances to with the title." That didn't stop it from happening, did it?

where did Noid disappear to?

Does it make sense for multi-time World Champion Randy Orton to seek out a match against the loser of a match where the prize is to face a midcarder? Not really. But they're doing it.

I typed out a way to make it work, but I guess it didn't post. I'll try again tomorrow.

Dean Ambrose sneaks into Triple H's office before they all sign the contract and switches the official contract with one that has a "case on the line" clause. Gives a crazy grin after they sign it without reading and lets them in on the surprise.

That's one of a ton of ways they could make it happen if that's the way they wanted to go.

I think there is a serial killer at TPWW.

Ambrose, Rollins, Kane, and Lesner in a Amagedon Hell in a Cell match.

Lol yeah, there are a lot of ways to make it work. If creative was.....creative.

So;

First thing, you don't have HHH force the match, you force Seth into a position where he opts to put the case on the line. You emphasise the whole "you're never gonna cash in whilst I'm around" deal, you push the idea that Ambrose is the bane of Rollins' existence. All the while you keep Ambrose from getting a fair one-on-one with Rollns.

You get to a point where Rollins has simply had enough to the point where he says "What have I gotta do to get rid of him!?" Ambrose answers this; "you want me to go away? Simple. Me, you, one-on-one. If you win, I go away, I leave you alone, you cash in. But if I win...I get the case".

Rollins deliberates but decides that as long as Ambrose is around the case is valueless because he'll always stop him cashing in. The chance to get Ambrose off his back is worth the risk of the case.

You can go either way here. Ambrose finally gets his fair one-on-one, he wins and takes possession of the case.

Or, Seth wins - lets say with assistance - but you can still have Ambrose causing him trouble and sell it on a "you didn't keep your word (on the fair one-on-one) so I'm not keeping mine". Or Seth wins clean and Ambrose still sticks his nose in, breaking his word because he's a face in the WWE so he can be an asshole.

I think we might have been better off with Cena vs. Rollins and Orton vs. Ambrose.

It keeps Ambrose/Rollins at arms length and allows their feud to bubble along without over exposure of the match. Denying the fans what they want isn't always a bad thing.

It could potentially draw a line under the Cena/Rollins issue and John could move on to something else.

We don't have to see Cena vs. Orton. Again. In a Cell. Again.

We get 2 fresh matches.

We're not show-horning a nothing feud in to a Cell match.


Of course, if it were me booking, this wouldn't be the Hell In A Cell PPV because I dislike the idea of the concept PPV. The meaning of a HiaC match has been lost; it's not the end to a bloody and brutal feud, it's a match that happens because it's October.

What I would have done, as I've suggested before, is tie together the entire period from SummerSlam to Royal Rumble using some kind of gimmick building towards the Rumble Match, which would allow me to try building new stars/teams ready for the Road to Mania.

Or, if that's "too complicated", October is perfect for King Of The Ring to return. You get to build the midcard, give somebody a shove up the card as the winner, even give that person a title shot at Survivor Series if you like. At least by using the frame of KOTR, you can make the 5 weeks of TV prior to the show meaningful (qualification matches, preliminary rounds, etc.) and it'll hand you as many matches as you like for the PPV show; where just doing Semi Finals gives you 3 matches on your card that have background and build up.

As it stands we have a hot feud in a Cell match that will more than likely be bumped in favour of a nothing feud that shouldn't even be in a Cell. Plus, this weird midcard title deal where last months challengers have switched over, perhaps another match between The Usos and The Dusts which nobody wants to see, plus some other sloppily thrown together matches with little to no meaning and nothing on the line.

Or, fuck it, do a single night tournament to crown a Number One Contender. You could have the winner face the champion on the night after surviving 3 other opponents.

Do it with a face, have them show guts and determination but ultimately fall to the fresh heel champion after a valiant effort.

Do it with a dirty heel who cheats his way to a match against the face champion who can then give the heel his comeuppance.

If you're smart/subtle you could even have a heel essentially turn face over the course of the night by showing guts and determination, eventually overcoming the beat down by the big bad at the end.

In the current landscape, whether the champion isn't even on the show, you just crown your Number One Contender who gets a shot at the next PPV.

That's 3 years of storyline ideas from one concept.

See. Another fine idea they could use to make it make sense. Shouldn't be much of a problem for professional writers.