an wwe fire everyone around him but want to keep him for some reason.

Its possible they wanted to keep him as a coach.

yeah even the coaches are leaving

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Roderick Strong looks like a Sitcom Dad 10 years after the show was cancelled.

And on top of that, he was part of a trio where the other two guys got purged.

Forgotten Sons pretty much forgotten, but it could have been worse. Could have been like Hit Row. I would say that's the worst, if not for the perpetual implosion of The Diamond Mine... the only constant there is Roddy, and that stable can never get off the ground.

Do they, though? Do they really?

Besides Heyman and MVP, who was the last manager - actual manager, not just an injured mouthpiece (David Otunga) or a valet with a mic who eventually gets in the ring anyway (Zelina) - to get any actual serious time? Last one I remember is Dutch Mantell/Zeb Coulter. Paul Ellering was back for enough time to build up Authors of Pain in NXT, but then when they got called up, he was back on the unemployment line, and they got split up and shitcanned. The only other one I can think of outside of that was Abraham Washington, and he got himself fired for mentioning the one name he wasn't allowed to on Twitter (Linda).

Tag teams are worse. Most established actual "teams" that gel or work as teams get split up for no reason or treated as jokes. Then, they make teams out of whole cloth from two thrown together singles. The one of the few true teams still around right now are the Usos, and part of that is being auxillary to Roman. If they literally werent Bloodline, they'd be on the breadline, or chilling somewhere in catering next to <s>War Machine</s> <s>The Viking Experience</s> The Viking Raiders.

They have two sets of tag team champions (not counting NXT or the women's belts, because those are different difficulties), but they're mostly ornamental. The "division" itself reminds me of when Gregory Helms was the Cruiserweight Champion when there was almost nothing on the roster but "heavyweights", or when AJ Lee was the Diva's Champ with no other legit full-time wrestling ladies on the card except Nattie, and she pretty much had to carry matches against swimsuit models and "reality tv stars". There are no more Road Warriors, British Bulldogs, Powers of Pain, Demoliton, etc., etc., and the few that show up get shit on or disappeared. American Alpha had potential, but again, not only were there few other actual tag teams around to make them look good, but Vince was super horny to make Jason Jordan the next big breakout singles superstar and was super eager to split them ASAP.

I find it funny now that they went elsewhere and proved how great they are, WWE wants The Revival back... even though when those guys left, the company was about to make them a comedy act and bury them to hell. And I'm convinced if they go back and take the money, they'll eventually swing back around to that line of thinking. They only want them back to deny AEW the buzz. Just like the deal with Gallows & Anderson. Just like when they "showed interest" in the Young Bucks.

They'll dabble every once in awhile. They may put together some sort of [insert wrestler name] Tournament for Tag Team Supremacy or hire some guy who looks like they'll become the new Harvey Whippleman or Paul E. Dangerously, but then both of those ideas will last for a number of weeks, then begin to fade into obscurity, and the idea of the next great tag team renissanse or prodigous mouthpice will be shelved for another few years. They never stick with it, and they seemingly never will. I would assume on the manager front Bivins saw the writing on the wall.

yep poor stone and la knight both managers

Lmaooooo at the idea at WWE having a better tag team division than AEW. Fucking laughable take.

https://c.tenor.com/fJRgX3o6qvwAAAAM...ott-dawson.gif

That was how they were using FTR. Accidentally putting Icy Hot on their balls. Just insane. Lol

and they were shaving the backs of one another as well. brilliant.

impact and nwa have better tag teams then the wwe

THAN. THAN. FUCKIG THAN.

Sorry about that little outburst.

*fucking

I can’t blame Roddy. When UE split he was the “other guy” when Cole and O’Reilly was feuding. Then they launched Diamond Mine, I think mostly as a vehicle for the Creed Brothers (which is fine), let that one guy go, then Bivens. Apparently they approached him with a name change. Where does the dude fit on the Main Roster? Fine as part of a group but as a solo act?

Sorry. Clearly too worked up.

he couldn't even hang as a solo act in NXT so his main roster chances were pretty damn slim imo

Well yeah. He’s a tag/stable guy if ever I saw one.

Heyman and MVP are where you could stop. I didn’t say the most managers, I said the best managers. No one touches them.

The Usos have been on the main roster for 12 years now. The New Day have been together for 8. The Street Profits for 6. The longevity argument is an outdated one. Splitting up teams wouldn’t negate the argument that WWE have a good division anyway.

Right now they’ve got aforementioned teams, RKBro, Alpha fucking Academy, The Mysterios, Ziggler & Roode, and the ability to put a bunch of other guys into the mix that currently aren’t cycled in (Edge & Priest, Gunther & Kaiser, Styles & Balor). It’s just an antiquated argument that they don’t have the teams available to produce top quality tag team stuff. It’s been the highlight on Raw.

This is probably the strongest the division has ever been since The Hardys, E&C, The Dudleys, APA, Too Cool, Radicalz days. And I can’t think of another time where it was more important in the context of the show. RKBro and The Usos are just about to headline a PPV.

I’ve also read that RKBro are MASSIVE merch movers for them. Hence why they don’t break them up. But the team has gotten over and worked. To say they aren’t one of the most important acts there right now is just absurd.

Now compare that to AEW. Do Jungle Boy & Luchasaurus compare as champs to either WWE team? No. Are any of the teams true main event acts? No. They’ve got FTR, who are outstanding, but booked so terribly by the company. They’ve got alien belts no one cares about and have had to build up a reputation outside the show to get over enough to stand out.

WWE had them in the first place, lol. WWE wants them now? They hired them anyway. FTR quit. Their greatness was well known before any AEW run.

The anti-WWE lens skewers everything, and it tends to fall back on antiquated arguments and internet tropes that don’t hold true under examination.

Tremendous points.

WWE is a leader in sports entertainment for a reason.

They do make AEW comes across as amatuers at time. I'm exhausted by the overbooking on AEW programming. It's not going to improve ratings. There's no breathing room on Dynamite. Space it all out for crying out loud.

Noids missing the point. None of those WWE teams do 7 star flippy shit every match. This puts them at an automatic disadvantage to every team in AEW.

CyNoid

When you take off the anti-WWE lens this is a gif of them tearing the house down.

https://c.tenor.com/fJRgX3o6qvwAAAAM...ott-dawson.gif

I can find gifs of all the teams in AEW you worship doing embarrassing bits too. Is that really how you're gonna play this?

Could probably just do a montage of all of them jobbing to a dick flip at some point.

Seph versus Fan turning into a hot feud RN. I think you guys should do a podcast.

The only tag team I worship is Danhausen and his jar of teeth. I dare you.

You wanna go back and forth with WWE guys and AEW guys taking dick flips for point provings? No lenses allowed!

Idk how anybody could watch both programs and not concede that AEW runs the better tag division. WWE has the talent to have a strong division, they just choose not to.

I can’t speak much on the team itself but the existence of RKBro pisses me off solely because Orton should be a megastar. He should be a special attraction and treated way above teaming with a stoner surfer dude who has birds fly out of his asshole.

well he isnt and never was a megastar. his career is nearing its end...might as well build someone up.

He’s 5 years older than the guy they’re using him to build up and has WAY more star potential. My comment was more condemning WWE for fucking up with him over the past 20 years but if they can even get 5 more years out of Orton full time then they should be focusing on making him the star he should have been as opposed to “using him” to build up a guy with FAR less potential than he ever had.

Why would Randy Orton, a 42 year old guy want to help somebody else get over when he can just say he wants to work with younger talent, but then win every single match he is in and act tough on Twitter???

https://i.imgflip.com/61c7en.jpg

Let’s talk about it.

Don’t think I could agree more

5 years older and a couple million more bumps

there's a reason he's in a tag: its way easier on the body.

That doesn’t really excuse the waste of bumps, which was my point.

Orton should have been taking half as many bumps for twice the return.

he's not doing much bumping these days. the guy with no shoes does all that. its the easiest pay check he's ever had

takes a few years working tags. heals up. one final big push on his way out.

i dont see the down side

the bumps are virtually 0. thats the point of the entire endeavor.

he *might* take 1 a night.

well 2. the rko is just a giant bump.

Right. But my point is the fuck up to this point. Again…

is the issue just who he's tagging with? cause theres no scenrio other than going home thats going to lead to less bumps than he's taking now

He wasted a shitload of bumps underachieving. Now he’s an “old man” bumping less to help put a young guy over who won’t actually get over. The entire return of the bumps is a fraction of what it should have been.

oh over his whole run. i get you. yeah i think its very fair to summarize ortons entire run by "failed potential."

i think thats on him though. he had every opportunity to transcend his status.

Right. That was my point. I don’t really care what he’s doing now and I should.

cant even begin to argue against that

early on i thought he would be Cenas great adversary but honestly the main event scene was very crowded and he wasnt able to rise above his peers even after being given the keys to the kingdom on multiple occasions. his legacy will be inorganic. a manufactured memory of highlight videos.

Was saying the other day somewhere how it is "weird" how Orton still isn't a "big deal" and is just "a guy like anyone else"

I like RKBro. It’s like WWE’s version of Hookhausen

Well shit, he can join the club of inorganic legacies WWE will try to push as more of a success than they really were through a manufactured memory of highlight reels. That’s running rampant now and will be for the foreseeable future.

We can argue all day whose fault it was that he wasn’t more but when you look at what makes a star, Orton had all the tools. He came along in an era where the only game in town was no longer able to produce stars like the business as a whole used to be able to.

objectively orton was around while cena was coming up. cena unquestionably is a star. is it fair to say they couldnt do it at the time when he was on the rise?


flash forward 10 years and i wont give much push back...but then? cenas tenure and social status are pretty high as far as wrestlers go. he's no hogan rock or austin but the number of people who "never watched wrestling even once" and still know cena is higher than nearly everyone to have ever done it before. i dunno. its a huge topic.

Let’s talk about it

And I thought YouTube comments were bad

They hold very true. You have apparently confused me with an AEW fanboy. I've been bitching about this type of stuff in WWE for ages. I myself never made the argument about AEW having a better tag division. Their shit sucks in a completely different way, starting with the notion that :Schiavone voice: "The Young Bucks are the greatest tag team in the history of our sport"... but it wasn't the topic. So please stop with the false equivalancy shit. This has nothing to do with the very clear and utter bullshit in AEW right now. AEW's nonsense is a different subject entirely. Cut that out.

Yes, the Usos have been together for MOST of their time in WWE (and initially were with Tamina), except when they weren't on those couple of times they had solo runs. New Day being together for 8 years has nothing to do with other teams being either randomly paired and/or broken up... and even there, they have been severed by the brand split more than once (but you prob'ly only remember the times they were considered "one person" and were drafted together). And on that, they were all almost fired because that forced positivity babyface BS they were on initially wasn't working, and as per usual, it was somehow "their fault" instead of just not being something fans wanted to see. They had to beg Vince to turn heel, which started them down the road to being together as a group for so long as talent the folks gave a shit about. On the other side of that fence, you had a team like The Major Brothers, who Vince decided after about two weeks that "nobody would buy them as brothers" even though nobody knew who the hell Brian Myers and Matt Cardona were on top of them having the same haircut and twinsy ring gear (and all that before they became Edge's stunt doubles for awhile). Meanwhile, that same company still to this day run with the kayfabe fantasy about Undertaker and Kane even though EVERYBODY knows better anymore.

I also wasn't making a blanket statement that EVERY SINGLE TEAM gets split, though it has historically happened a lot. The divison as a whole always gets minimized. They get flashes of resurgance, just like I said before, but it never lasts. And again, I'm only counting main roster men's belts. The NXT titles don't mean much, because it isn't even close to guaranteed that the teams holding them will survive as teams to the main roster. For every Street Profits still there and allowed to be themselves, you have your AoPs, or Blake & Murphys, or Enzo & Cass's-es. And the women's tag teams are just the "everyone gets a turn 2.0 belts". There is no real division, and very few actual women's teams to begin with... just mostly a series of loose alliances that makes little sense to have a division around.

Yes, RKBro is popular now, and a merch mover, but you know damn well they're nothing but another "odd couple" gimmick destined to be broken up. Most likely from Orton turning on Riddle - even though they may surprise everyone (doubt it) by having it go the other way. Alpha Academy is either the 4th or 5th tag partner for Chad Gable (I legit don't remember how many anymore), and second partner for Otis. They are literally both remnants of other teams that had been broken up.

For as poorly as they foster tagging as a division, it makes little sence to have two sets of titles other than the perception of USA and FOX not wanting one show to have something the other doesn't. On the company end, there are less teams and more angles and excuses for singles stars to "have something to do". Its more "let's form a stable... welp, guess these two guys are the requisite tag team". It's more "TAG TEAM MATCH, PLAYA!" type booking than actually fostering an environment for actual tag teams.

As for FTR, the gif of them with IcyHot on their nuts is the tip of the iceberg. Yes, they quit. Remember why? They said themselves WWE were about to saddle them with being a parody of 80s wrestlers in a comedic fashion. It was going to be another Ascention situation ("most dominant tag team" in NXT, made out to be jokes and never-wases on the main roster who talked big but never beat any one of note and got gangbanged by finishers from Legends teams that weren't even active on the roster anymore). Instead of being taken any sort of seriously, they were going to be part of the clusterfuck of guys chasing after the 24/7 Title. They were going to be finding new and creative ways to be taking the RKO. They were going to be footnotes; incidental guys who ate a pinfall or squeaked out a win in that one match where Singles Star A and Singles Star B began their feud and overshadowing anything The Revival did since that isn't and won't be the focus.

This isn't that "fedbad" bullshit that I'm already tired of. This is stuff that has precident and track records. This is the conclusion of the "baby we can change/we're listening to you fans" McMahon family promo that we've all made fun of. Tag team wrestling, midcard titles meaning anything whatsoever, and fostering anything close to a new career manager dies on the vine to ensure everyone oos and aahs at the fruit that is currently Roman Reigns, or previously John Cena, or whatever top-tier talent or market share ploy they consider worthy to throw ALL their attention into at the literal expense of everything else down the card.

Sorry, I don’t agree with this. I’m critical of the automatic conclusion that “WWE doesn’t like tag teams,” “WWE doesn’t like managers.” I don’t think it is true. I provided my reasoning.

lol you are such a twit

I mean, he'd have to watch the show to know that those things can be true.

And that right there is all that needs to be considered when reading said posts. ^

To be fair, he has a great mind for the business.

He's outspoken and doesn't shy away from expressing unpopular views. We can't agree on everything. That's how democracy functions.

Which wrestling company genuinely has better managers or a better tag team division currently than WWE?

erickman suggested Impact and the NWA. I’ve been trying to watch more NWA, but who are the featured tag teams there? In the NWA you’ve got The Briscoes. The NWA features solid wrestling, but I wasn’t aware of a truly pumping tag team division.

The WWE has got RKBro, Alpha Academy, Street Profits, Ziggler & Roode, The Usos and The New Day.

For the record, nobody gives a shit about The Dirty Dawgz :lol:

I think you’re judging it by different standards.

Noid is setting the bar at “best compared to” and Guycott is setting the bar at “best it could possibly be”.

I’m inclined to agree largely with Noid’s assessment that WWE tag division > than most right now, however, that’s the issue; it’s going great guns right now, but precedent suggests it won’t last. Which then becomes an issue with people committing to it. I suffer from this myself. Everything good in WWE I’m just waiting for them to misstep/fuck it up/scrap it entirely because that’s pretty much their modus operandi at this point. You don’t get the “benefit of the doubt” until you earn it, and WWE have a lot of making up to do in that department for a lot of people.

Oh, it could definitely be better. But what other tag team division can hold a candle to it? Things will get emphasized differently over time in wrestling. There will almost definitely be lulls in WWE’s tag division again. But that doesn’t necessarily come from a place of malice or an internet fan wrestling trope either.

WWE seem to hum at a level of adequacy that a lot of promotions haven’t even earned in the first place. It’s fair if you’ve decided you aren’t going to trust WWE anymore. But it’s sad because there isn’t really an alternative that can bat on their level.

Eh, disagree. They’re not what they could be, but Ziggler was just NXT Champion. That’s more global exposure than AEW would get. In terms of being a quality team? They shit all over most, honestly. It’s just the matter of a renewed push, which may or may not come.

Ziggler's title reign cemented Bron Breakker as the top face of the NXT brand.

Their title rematch on RAW after Mania had more viewership than Dynamite and Rampage can ever dream of.

the thing with wwe tag teams is vince likes singles better, he said years ago better to pay 2 wrestlers to do a match then 4 wrestlers. that is going by cornett. with that thinking vince will never have a good tag div. so for wwe we are just stuck with new day an the uso's till they get to old.

I think the WWE is realizing the potential of utilizing managers. Bobby Lashley and Roman Reigns both needed a manager to get over the hump. Managers will probably be used sparingly but wisely in the WWE.

It is also rare to have an effective manager. WWE does not need to go down the route of bringing in a bunch of managers who are average. Keep the manager role for select wrestlers who can easily be a superstar with a mouthpiece.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Confirmed: Mat Men Podcast Confirmed this Morning on their Show that More WWE Releases are On The Way ������</p>&mdash; B Mack (@MILANO_MOBBBB) <a href="https://twitter.com/MILANO_MOBBBB/status/1522245264794337280?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

More blood for the blood god

Swerve was telling a story on his podcast about B-Fab's firing.

WWE uses a scheduling app for their talent's travel arrangements. All of Hit Row were set to travel to SmackDown and on the day of travel it disappeared off of B-Fab's schedule but still had it on the other 3 guys' schedule.

B-Fab called the office and couldn't get a hold of anybody, so Top Dolla called Johnny Ace to see what the deal was. Ace told him it was fine and that she just wasn't needed that week. The 3 guys flew in and found out mid-flight over Twitter that B-Fab got fired.

Then when they arrived at the building they got an ass chewing for calling Johnny Ace at all. "Mind your own business" etc. Even though the act was a quartet so it's not really that egregious that they called in to see if the travel shit was a mistake or not.

lol what a company

Between that and bringing up Shotzi without the writers even knowing she was in a tag team with ember, its starting to sound a lot like late wcw in terms of disorganization and just never knowing what the fuck is going on.

Lol, they knew she was in a tag team. They weren’t that interested in Ember because they had used her before on many different levels and she has never been able to get over. They gave her the NXT Women’s Title in her hometown and it was lukewarm.

According to a recent interview with Ember, no, at least one of the writers working with them was unaware of them being a tag team.

And it doesn't really matter if they didn't see anything in ember moon, but rather how they regard nxt in general, and really don't seem to give a shit about it. I think that plays a large factor in why so many talents have struggled after their call up.

This is the problem with taking disgruntled ex-talent at their word. There was a major disconnect between NXT and the main roster. Triple H was aiming an indy-style product aimed at a certain subsection of fans. That’s what they’re trying to rectify now.

Well I mean it tracks considering how clueless they seem to be at times in regards to using nxt talent on the main roster.

I’ll play. Like who?

Oh boy…

Ill go on record and say Ember Moon's initial NXT run was top tier. Great look, great music, best finisher, and her big main roster call up if I remember correctly was teaming with babyface Nia Jax talking about how it is ok to be comfortable believing in yourself Be a Star bullshit. Then they proceeded to do nothing whatsoever with her for months.

That is not a good business model.

Ember Moon isn’t very good.

It’s trendy to blame WWE when the talent doesn’t get over. In most cases NXT talent have flopped on the main roster, there wasn’t much there to begin with. A lot of them have had attitude problems or downright suck too. AEW has exposed how WWE made a lot of guys look way better than they had any business looking.

Do you even realize, or care, that doubling down on a stance that has been proven false over and over again isn't just going to make it true if you repeat it into your echo chamber enough?

OK, Google: Define "insanity".

The irony of this is that you’re coming down hard on a stance that I believe has been disproven.

Of all the talent that has been released since 2019 — we’ve got about 3 years now — who has actually been better off for it? It’s a VERY short list.

Ember Moon was boring as shit in NXT. That four-way when she won the belt against Peyton Royce and whoever else the fuck was around had zero hype. Does anyone really disagree with this.

Can someone link me to an absolutely amazing Ember Moon match, promo or moment, let alone direct me to an actual run where she sustained those things? Come on.

It’s not always WWE’s fault when talent doesn’t pan out.

Except with Doug Basham, that was 100% WWE's fault

I liked Ember Moon when she was in NXT, and it was "cool" the angle they were going with where Asuka had to "cheat"/"take shortcuts" to beat her... like the one person the unbeatable Asuka had to use underhanded tactics against....

But then Asuka got injured and had to vacate the title and Ember never got her moment of victory and won the title instead in a match that, yeah, didn't have any hype behind it.

Ideal booking would have had Asuka continue undefeated on the main roster and then Ember debut as the only one who pushed Asuka to her limits and made her cheat to win... then finally getting her moment defeating her.

I think its really weird to say that anyone and everyone who didn't work out ALL just so happened to be shit; that nobody had any value whatsoever and that's why they're gone...

Oh, and also it doesn't matter how fucked up they may have been treated in any step of the endeavour, from hiring to firing, it is all the fault of the wrestler for being subpar. Even being way more generous than reasonably neccessary, that smashes Occam's Razor to a very blunt edge.

It also doesn't check out when there are still shitty wrestlers who were or have been employed for years.

"Ember Moon isnt' that good", but to this same company, Kelly Kelly is considered a "legend" and - even as of the last surprise appearance she made - still runs ropes like a drunken Clydesdale. The most basic of basics, and she can't do it. The Bellas are HOF material, but Athena somehow sucks because they cut her. And the office not watching their own product and not realizing she was in a tag team is somehow bad on her because reasons.

Sucks that two big Asuka matches got canned for auxillary circumstances. That build to pass the torch to Ember, and also, Asuka was supposed to cash in MITB on Becky, but Becky was with child.