Why would Phil Rivers drop out of the Pro Bowl...It's his second year and hes in the Pro Bowl. Tom Brady or Peyton manning didn't do that......Hopefully Romo drops out so Mike Vick can get his spot he was screwed out of.....1000 yards rushing (record), 2000+ passing, 20 TD ( Career High), and 4 TD in 2 games against 2 good teams (Career High). Tony Romo didn't sdeserve to go to the pro bowl....at least not over mike vick. P.S. Rashe Caldwells eyes are humongous....

Yes, because I said, in pure words, that Jabar Gaffney and Reggie Wayne were the exact same player in terms of talent. Come on...gotta have something besides that.

Jabar Gaffney put up stats with......DAVID CARR. But, on to what you said. Brady made Gaffney look like a pro bowler? He had back to back 100 yard games. That was more than he had all season. Props to him for playing great when it counted, but I never got him confused with Andre Johnson, Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, or Chad Johnson.

Maybe I shouldn't have said Nahh, because me personally I knew about Wayne long before he broke out 3 or 4 years ago. My point was, the average NFL fan did not, just like your argument that noone knew who Jabar Gaffney was. Gaffney was sick in college. Probably should have stayed another year, and yeah he hasn't lived to expectations but who has with David Carr? David Carr isn't going to make a WR like a Peyton, Brady, or Brees is.

My point wasn't that Brady doesn't make his WR look better than they really are because he does, Brady is a top notch QB who a team would be lucky to have. It was more of a jab at you acting like Peyton doesn't do the same thing. See : Reggie Wayne, Brandon Stokley, Dallas Clark, *insert any of his targets he's had here minus Harrison*

MTH, might have to do with who's coaching...

Tom Brady is Joe Montana. I dont know if anyone knows this or not.

Patriots fans always adjust there arguments to hate on Peyton Manning. Look up the past 3 NFL threads. First it was " Peyton Manning will never beat New England on the road ". So that happens and then its " Peyton Manning cant beat New England in the playoffs ". Then that happens and now they talk about " We'll Brady makes his recievers better and Manning doesnt " or " Manning cant win a Superbowl " like it matters to them if he does or doesnt all of a sudden. Patriots haters always have these arguments , most of which never carry any weight at all. Rediculous things like " Manning cant beat us in the playoffs " but he beat you twice in the regular season. Oh but now its different.

And if you say one thing bad about someone or something on the Patriots team, it immediatley comes back to " Peyton Manning cant win the big game " ALWAYS. Dont take my word for it. Look up the past NFL season threads. Its hilarious. Thats why this victory is so great. I love the fact that New England has lost all there " hater " arguments in the last couple of seasons.

My favorite argument is when they start yapping about how many rings they have then they note that Peyton has none. Its only about the " team " when we're talking about the Patriots, but when you talk about the Colts, its always " Peyton has no rings, Peyton cant win the big one , Peyton cant beat New England, Peyton Peyton Peyton". Again, proof is in the history. Go check it out. This is what New England fans do. They talk to no end about Peyton's post season difficulties, never once mentioning the other 52 men on the team, but when it comes to New England, not one person will mention how horrible Brady's last 2 post seasons have been. No we'll just blame the other 52 men on the team. Blame the recievers too. Patriot fans are just stupid.

I got news for you Patriot fan. If Manning wins this Superbowl, he's better then Brady. It doesnt matter if Brady has three rings to his one. Because rings are won by teams not players. Your argument has always been that Manning doesnt have the ring and Brady does. Nice. Well if Manning wins the Superbowl in 11 days, that argument is gone. He has the stats, he has the rings, he has the legacy. He has it all. So hold on to your Joe Montana comparisons like a breast fed baby holds onto his mothers tit. Cause thats all you'll have to fall back on. If the Colts win, Manning > Brady. How bout them apples?

Stokley caught a TD in the Superbowl before playing with Peyton, I'd say that was noteworthy :o

Wait, let me pretend I'm you for a moment.

"Where's your proof"

RP,

You're still bitter, it's really funny..

Joe Montana didn't win every playoff game he was in.

You are right that the whole team plays, however if you look at the big games they have lost Manning has always played very badly and it's expected for your stars to step up in the big games.

Sunday, Manning stepped up.

Everyone talks about Manning the same reason they talk about Brady or just about any QB, the QB is the leader of the team. Especially in Mannings case where he's one of the few if not the only QB in the league right now that calls his own plays.

So seriously, enjoy the experience, you may never make it again (it's been 20yrs since the Bears have been there).

Wait, I just realised what your doing... attacking Belichek, trying to make fun of Brady, talking about "team effort" and such... you're already making excuses incase the Colts don't beat the Bears a week from Sunday.

That's funny!

Enjoy the offseason.

It feels good to let out all that repressed frustration doesn't it?

Yes infact.

I feel what RP is saying. I've noticed the same trend too. People have an argument on Manning, he beats it down and they back up to the next argument.

How long did Patriots fans say Manning can't beat the Pats away, in the playoffs, or win a Superbowl? Now that he has done 2, and probably will have done the third, what will you say then? Manning hasn't won 3 or 4 Superbowls so the Colts aren't as good as the Pats? You can't just change your arguments to suit you.

Peyton Manning has all the ability in the world to win in any situation. He has proven it on all avenues except the Superbowl, and if he does it there too Patriots fans have nothing to say.

No one's changing arguments, until he won Sunday it wasn't an argument it was true, he couldn't win the big game, plain and simple. He's now over that hurdle.

If they win the superbowl will they be as good as the Patriots? They'll be better then this years Patriots, and last year the Colts beat the Pats in NE in their only meeting and both teams lost in the same round of the playoffs, so clearly you'd have to say the Colts were the better team in last year.

Now, are you asking if the Colts win the superbowl will they be as good as the 2002-2005 Patriots who won 3 superbowls in 4 years? Of course not.

7 teams (one of them twice) have won back-to-back championships.
2 teams have won 3 superbowls in 4 years.

So no, until the Colts win more then one superbowl I wouldn't call them a "Dynasty" or put them in the same category as those other teams.

Does that take away from winning a superbowl? Not in my opinion.

But, RP seems more interested in trying to make things up and take shots at the Patriots then talk about the Bears.

I'd like to see Manning get a ring, but if he doesn't I can't wait to hear RP's excuses...

Enjoy the Pro Bowl

Manning is a great QB obviously, but he has shown in the past that he lacks the ability to always show up in huge games. Obviously this years playoffs are a lot different but I don't think one year can erase the huge list of history he has (even dating back to college where he never lead Tennesse to a victory over their biggest rival Florida/Tennesse went on to win the National Championship the year after he graduated) Up until the AFC Champ game Manning has had some pretty horrible playoff performances this year..everyone talks about how bad Grossman is but Rex has just as many TD passes with 5 less INTS. But at the sametime the Colts are winning and that's all that really matters.

When the Red Sox won the World Series did that really erase all the choke jobs the Red Sox had in the past? Not really, it made them "hurt" a whole lot less but they are still there. I definetly know what it feels like to RP right now, but If the Bears win the Superbowl I also know how that feels too..since the Patriots where huge underdogs againest the Saints a few years back. I also reemed Dave Wadding about it for like 2 months afterwards, so I know what it feels like to do that too haha

But lets not get too ahead of ourselves, the Colts haven't won the Superbowl yet, I mean its great and all that they "exorcise the demons" or whatever and made it to the Superbowl after years of being the pick to make it, but they still got one more game to play. I think they'll win, but you never know UF alum Grossman could come out of no where and pull some shit out of his ass...Manning's never had good luck againest the Gators

Lets just say we had protection problems

Switching back for a second.

I still don't understamd why most of you didn't want to see Patriots and the Colts in the AFC championship Game. I understand wanting your team to be in, but other then that this would defintly be the most intersting game as it turned out to be.

Also this Colts/Patroits rivarly hasn't been beaten to death like the Yanks and the Sox, and is without a doubt the best rivarly in the NFL so I don't get why people are tired of it.

Uhh. lol. You talking about the regular season?

Manning - 31 TDs with 9 INTs
Grossman - 23 TDs with 20 INTs

If you're talking about the postseason, that's a pretty silly thing to argue. Peyton's played in one more game, against tougher competition, etc. etc.


But since Peyton doesn't produce in the postseason, I'd like to point out his stats in the postseason. 265/437 for 3,248 yards. 17 TDs and 14 INTs in 12 games. 6-6 in playoff games. He had 15 TDs and 8 INTs coming into this year by the way. In fact, he's performed very well minus a handful of those games, notably against the PATs in '03 and then against the Jets the year before and the two games this year. So, I know the whole argument is "He can't win the big game" which is pretty silly again to ignore all the good games he has including the playoffs and emphasize the few bad ones he's had. That's like saying that players should only show up for the big games. *insert Ricky Williams interview here*

Oh I'm not disagreeing with that at all, he hasn't, up until now really won a game in the "big game" atmosphere. I wouldn't compare the Colts to the Pats in terms of success just because they win one Superbowl or anything, but I just would think its ridiculous if Pats fans found something new to rag Peyton and the Colts about if they won.

Of course we're all having this conversation and knowing fate, the Bears will win or something. :rofl:

Naw. This is the Colts year. The less black coach will win.

Really he's had some really bad games, and some really good games (pretty sure he threw 5 TD passes in like a 42-0 win againest the Broncos couple years back) so his stats are pretty skewed going both ways. He has just gone from being a really great QB to an average one once the playoffs roll around...that's all I'm saying. Ignoring that is a bit silly too, obviously its not like he can't break out of this or something but the proof is there. Naturally I am a bit biased in this discussion too, but so aren't Manning fans so it goes both ways I guess.

I really hope with all this talk that Chicago comes out and beats the Colts, I personally can't see it happening but you never know.

I think it'll be one of the best Superbowls ever. I just have a feeling. I still think Indy will win because we have the legend Adam V, but it think Chicago will play some inspired football and make it a really close game.


Colts 31

Bears 27

This kills me though, cause all you Patriots fans have been arguing over the years is that its not about the stats, its about winning the big game. Thats all you guy's have said. When someone say's something about Manning being the best, its like " Oh Manning puts up all the stats, but he'll never win a big game like Brady ". Now he wins the big game and you wanna talk about stats all of a sudden? Get out of here with that shit man.

Let me just say this. In the Colts/Patriots game the other week, I felt Brady was the better QB. Sure his team lost, but he looked more composed and had much better zip on his ball.

I would agree as far as the first half goes, but the Colts and Peyton in the 2nd half played totally better than the Patriots team as a whole.

People talked about the stats a lot in previous seasons due to Manning putting up all type of gross numbers while still doing much in the post season (especially last season when it was handed to them by terrible calls and mistakes by the Steelers) During this same time, Brady's stats where Pro-bowl caliber but maybe not as impressive as Manning's overall. People then argued they'd still rather have Brady because of his sucess in the big games, to me, Brady is still a much better big game QB then Manning anyway...I mean Manning has just made it to his first Superbowl..I dunno the history is there.

Also, the stats coming into play for the playoff discussion just shows how average Manning has been in the playoffs in comparsion to his stellar play in the regular season. 17 TDS 14 INTS in the playoffs for a guy with 275 TDS 139 INTS in the regular season is kind of hard to ignore, not mention he has 1 TD pass with 5 INTS in the 2006 post season (while putting 31 TD and 9 INT during the entire regular season) Its not like Brady was winning big games while putting up Rex Grossman #'s or something, you know what I mean?

So while Manning has been able to shake his image of absolutely always losing the big game, the history is still there. I mean Marino made it to the Superbowl too and he is still known as the guy who never won the big one, so while beating the Patriots in the AFC Championship game may seem like a huge right now, it won't really mean much if the Colts don't win it all. I mean Colts should definetly win next Sunday but you never know.

Keep spinnin dawg

Not talking about the teams, just the QBs.

You eliminate the dropped passes and as far as I'm concerned, the Pats would have won. The throws were good. No faulting the QB oi
n them. Also not to crucifix Caldwell, because he's a go to guy and as far as I recall, it's the first time he's ever had the yips.

Anyway, QB to QB, Brady was the better.

So many long posts...gosh. Okay yea I think Rex Grossman can be good at times. But I dont think he will do good against the on fire Colts defense. Sorry to go a little bit off-topic but you Outlaw. You say you knew about Reggie Wayne 3-4 years before he broke out. Let me make this comment. Jerious Norwood will be a great Running Back. If he was starting he would be a Lawrence Moroney or Steven Jackson. I saw this in the Pre Season game against NE when he got like a 76 yard receiving TD.

I'm sorry but the 2nd half was all Manning..how can anyone even argue it. The clutch is what counts and he came through when iti counted.

We could split hairs but given the poor performance in the first half by Peyton, I think he totally redeemed himself coming back from a 21-6 defecit (sp?). He answered the call. I'm not taking anything away from Brady here because he played well too. The reason I give the edge to Peyton is because of the one crucial throw made by Brady that ended up ending the game, the INT. Sure, Peyton had a pick but it was early and they bounced back from it. I dunno.

Manning was better then Brady. Anyone who watched the game, or outside of New England knows this. I'm not sure how you could possibly argue that Brady was better then Manning in that game, but it dont matter.

Big game Tom has lost playoff games 2 years in a row cause of poor play and crucial interceptions. Oh crap shhh dont let anyone know that. He's suppose to be Joe Montana remember.

I do have to say I thought that INT by Brady was very uncharacteristic. I don't know if he didn't see the guy, but it initially looked like he tried to gun it in there. I don't know if anyone asked him about it in the press conferences but thats what it looked like to me.

Basically what Your Hero is saying that Brady was throwing the ball better, and that most of Tom Brady's passes looked real good unlike Payton Manning where most of his throws were wobbly and didn't look that good.

Not that it really matters though.

Yah, its the dumbest argument i've ever heard. Brady throws a better ball. So what. Manning has never thrown the prettiest ball. Manning played the 4th quarter with a bad thumb on his throwing hand. Manning led his team back from 18 points. Manning won that game. Brady had a chance and he choked. How can you possibly say Brady was the better QB?

BTW the dropped passes meant shit. The first one was canceled out cause Gafney caught a TD the next play. The second wasnt going no where reguardless cause Bathea was coming right towards him to make the stop. Brady didnt recognize Caldwell that wide open and neither one of them had any clue what to do with when he was so wide open. The fact that there was no saftey over the top and no one guarding him and Caldwell didnt run staight up the field? Brady didnt recognize that?? If that was Manning and Harrison or Wayne or Ricky Proehl for that matter. Manning would have had that ball hiked from the moment he stepped under center. So the who dropped ball, patriots would have won, argument is stupid. Sorry.

It was so obvious Manning was the better QB in that game. And Brady made the key mistakes. And quite frankly, its unacceptable to have a team up 18 points lose a game of that magnitude. Let alone that team having one Tom Brady as there QB. Now thats a choke job for you.

lol wow lotta pent up aggression for this guy.

Its pretty funny seeing how you called Charlie Weis "Lloyd Carr Jr" since he can't win the big game just like Lloyd Carr...when Lloyd Carr has won a National Championship. Now Manning finally wins the AFC Championship game and he is the greatest playoff QB of all time or something.

I really really hope the Bears somehow pull through and beat the Colts, I really can't see it happening but it will be one of the most hilarious thing to happen in the sports forum'

But yeah I'd say Manning out played Brady in the last game, neither of them really had a spectular game though.

LOL

Wow, whats really funny is that i fail to find any post where i said Manning was the greatest playoff QB ever. Were you channeling VEL in that post?

yes, even if Manning wins next Sunday Brady will still be compared to Joe Montana because of the multiple rings and the come back wins. Yes, even Joe Montana lost playoff games.



Of course he would have, but only after running into a phone booth changing into his cape and saving lois lane.

Maybe Manning would have, maybe not, you have no way of knowing, you're trying to predict fact on a hypothetical.

If he was it would be a post with quotes from you that you would claim were taken out of context and twisted, only to be followed up by other quotes from you where I ask you for your proof and you ignore, then followed up by claims of mine, with proof only for you to claim the proof isn't valid because the source is major Boston newspaper.

Really, enjoy the ride, you may never get back and yes, you need more then one superbowl win to be a "Dynasty".

Also, Stima's stats had everything to do with playoff performance, and your "it doesn't matter as long as you win the big game", Manning has won 1 big game, don't get over excited until he does it again.

And see thats what i'm talking about. Anytime someone makes a dumb argument against Manning and I post my reasons for why i think they're wrong, you Patriot fans come in here acting ( in your case actually saying ) like i'm some crazy fanatic who wants to hump Peyton Manning or something and you never quite argue against my statemens. Probably cause i'm right, you just go straight to the " Haha look at this loser, Peyton Manning sucks, I have three rings," bull shit. You cant possibly say, " Yah you're probably right ". Thats fine though. I dont expect that. But the whole " Well since i cant make a valid argument, i'll make a smug comment and post other examples of when of other arguments that have nothing to do with this one " Or as i now will call it, " The Lloyd Carr argument" is old and wore out bro. Stop trying to be funny and come with something logical. I'll designate that for you Patriots fan. Whenever i come in here and pretty much make sense of you not making sense, you have my permission to go to the Lloyd Carr argument. If we're talking about the Superbowl and i say something that you cant possibly post a reasonable retort to, Lloyd Carr Argument.


LOL

" Oh but but but but YOU SAID CHARLIE WEISS IS ANOTHER LLOYD CARR!!! "

Get lost loser.

:lol:

My " It doesnt matter as long as you win the big game" ????

LOL Let me go find the 2005 and 2004 NFL threads . Quick, go erase them so i dont totally make you look like a fucking moron. Wait i'm too late. You've already done that.

But Bellichek is coaching the Pro Bowl, so i guess the dynasty continues.