Was just watching a repeat of season 5 on TV where Ben goes to the temple to be judged. MIB took the form of Alex and pushed Ben against a wall telling him he must not kill Locke and must obey him.

He also took the form of Christian and showed Sun and Lupidas a picture of Jack and Co. in the Dharma Initiative in an earlier episode which they alluded to in this one.

But maybe when Jacob is killed is when MIB must stay in his form. That's the only pivital event I can think of that could cause that.

Jacob dying is what keeps MiB as Locke. Ilana hinted at this and I think the producers confirmed this in a podcast.

I'm just going by what Ilana said on the beach as they were burying Locke. I dunno where to go on that one now.

The Island is in the game Just Cause 2, pretty cool looking if you ask me, reminds me how I loved walking round the Island in Via Domus, even if it wasn't that great of a game. Would love a game where you can explore the Island fully.

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Yeah I saw this a while ago, apparently the plane explodes by default if you ever fly over it lol.

Think there is also a hatch in the WoW game universe I saw.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../Wow_hatch.jpg

lol

haha yeah my ex-girlfriend told me she found that during her WoW playing days.

I'm probably gonna play just cause 2 just to find the island.

Isn't there an actual Lost video game?

Yes but many people didn't like it.

I only played it over the course of one week, I thought it was okish. The voice overs were terrible.

I'm sure once Lost is finished, there will be more thought put into things like that.

I'm curious about what these Lostpedia folk were complaining about. I browsed that forum and didn't see anything particularly negative. I don't doubt fanboys overreacting at all though

Mostly people picking out every small instance and point out to say "See! They didnt have this planned all along! The writers suck and wrote themselves into a corner. They are just making stuff up as they go along! "

That variety of comments.

I think people are too absolute about the whole "planned all along" thing. It's possible to have a general idea/theme/direction planned out and not every single detail mapped out.
Obviously they never had every episode and event written in stone. That would be ridiculous. That doesn't mean they're making it up as they go along either. I don't think the majority of people out there have the slightest clue of how a writing or creative process works at all.

I like to think they started with a general idea of where things were going, then made it up as they went along, and then when they knew when the end was going to be, they solidified their plans.

They obviously make stuff up as they go along. It's called writing. I don't see why this a bad thing at all. It's expected and I'm actually glad it happens. That comes with the territory of writing a seasonal network TV show. They don't always know what they're going to run into, and things change.
They more than likely plot things season to season. Obviously entire seasons seem to be planned out in advance. Things like the increased role of Linus, or the twists and turns we see from episode to episode are all improvised. It's not like something like Faraday parachuting onto the island, or the boat not being Penny's , etc. had to be set in stone.
That is all just story that gets the show from point A to point B.
It's the bigger picture. The Island, The Smoke Monster, The Others, Richard Alpert. The very big questions and ideas are likely what was planned in advance.

The writers knew The Hatch wasn't going to be the biggest deal in the end, but they made it seem that way because it's good storytelling.

Either way I don't really care. It's fiction. It's all made up as they go along on some level. Whether it's planned word for word, season by season, or episode by episode is really irrelevant to the final product.
The show has set it's own end date and direction, and is ending on it's own terms. I don't see why people are so skeptical that they have a plan.

completely agree :y: At the end of the day, i have been more than entertained for 6 seasons of watching the show, discussing it, and reading about it.

It's not the Island - there's a storyline reason in one of the game missions as to why your plane crashes the moment you fly over that one particular island. Although what is on the island is still pretty bizarre.

The Hatch is probably just there as a homage.

What?

The whole island is there as an homage.

I re-watched Ab Aterno, the Alpert episode tonight.

QUESTION-
Man in Black takes the form of Isabella, Richard's wife, as part of his plot to convince him to kill Jacob.
How is this possible? We know MIB can take the form of dead people like Locke and Christian, but their bodies have to be on the island. As far as we know, and common sense dictates, Isabella is not on the island. How can he take her form?
If this is the case, he wouldn't have needed Christian or Locke's bodies brought to the Island which has been specifically stated to be the case.

I think they jus tfucked up.

Like Yemis body was there, so it worked for eko...but I honeslty think this was just some plot oversight.

Everyone he has appeared as has had their body on the island. Locke, Christian, Yemi, Alex Rosseau. Plus he said he needed their bodies in last weeks episode.
So I guess it really was a mistake. The only explanation is if he can somehow briefly imitate the dead, but not longterm. That doesn't make much sense.
Or if Isabella's body was on the ship. That also doesn't make any sense and wasn't stated.

I also just read something about him appearing as Christian years before the crash of flight 815. I never thought of that. Was this when he met the real Locke by the wheel? I hadn't even thought of that before, but was that during time travelling and before Christian's body was ever on the island?

perhaps she wasnt the MIB

I have a bad feeling that the overall theme/message in the final will be something along the lines of "All you need is love/love conquers all"

She was though. It wasn't her spirit, Richard can't see spirits. Later in the episode her spirit is standing right next to him and he can't see her.
They also reveal that MIB was taking her form. It was the enhanced version

Maybe the monster is a part of the island and time traveled also? So he had already discovered Christian's body.

That one doesn't really matter to me at all since it's all relative really. I just wonder how/why he was able to replicate Isabella, and based on the rules they have set out it seems to be a fuck up

did they say in the footnotes of this episode it was for sure the mib taking her body?

Yes. That much was made obvious in the episode too, but they came out and actually flat out said it in the footnotes

Jacob even said it wasn't his wife, to Richard.

The only other idea is that they do not have to be on the Island. Ben saw his mother as a child on the Island, and her body was never buried on the Island.

The extended episodes with the captions arent neccessarily canon. The producers said they dont have time to really look at those, though someone is there to try and make sure everything is correct.

Also, I dont think every dead person that has appeared on the island is the smoke monster. Some are dreams, some are manifestations of another kind/hallucinations.

Christian was traveling back in time I assume because Smokey had already started using him and I assume could keep his form in 1977, so yes, technically Christian appeared on the Island long before the Lost folk ever did.

While we have been told the whispers are dead people on the island, that doesnt mean MiB cant assume other forms of dead people from characters' past. The first time he meets Richard, he is clearly scanning him, only after which Isabella appears.

Same I would think with Dave and Hurley, and Ben with his mother. Go back and watch Man Behind the Curtain. Richard's reaction to young Ben saying he saw his dead mother out in the jungle isnt exactly one of happiness.

It isn't exactly one of horror either, more interest in the fact and idea he can see her. Like MIB was with Sawyer and Desmond seeing the scruffy child who plagues him.

What is all this stuff about Christian being in 1977? When? where?

Actually its previous to 1977, when Locke has to turn the wheel. He is the one who tells Locke to get up and do it. (Its MiB in Christian form, not actually Christian). Its previous to the well or Orchid station being built.

Yea it's when they were time jumping.

I suppose MIB can just scan people and assume the form of the dead, but that sort of contradicts MIB's statements that he needed Locke's body brought to the Island so he could assume it.
Maybe the difference is just that he can only physically take the form of people who he has the body of, but can temporarily create the illusion of the dead from people's memories. We don't know if anyone else would have been able to see Isabella when Richard did, or the same for Ben's mother.
Christian is a non issue really. We know he took his form, but he never said that he needed his body to do so. I think that's just assumed since it's the form he took most often other than Locke's, and his body was there too.

There's also the possibility that MIB was Kate's horse, and Hurley Bird. I don't know about that, but I've heard it suggested.

I think the MIB/Jacob episode will shed some more light on exactly what his powers are. It's sort of unclear right now, aside from the hints and obvious connections.
I hope it sheds a little light on this though.

crap, I was all excited for a new Lost last night. looking foward to it all day. Then @ 8:59pm, it dawned on me that the show is on a 2 week hiatus. :(

I rewatched the episode though

Same :( I ended up just drinking a few beers and playing Bad Company 2 on Xbox with friends.

Tuesday night my wife is out of the house, and usually I enjoy some lost. Made me sad.

This whole thing about MIB/Christian being around when the Island was time jumping, its not really that significant or a big deal. And yeah, pretty sure the main difference is with Locke's body and having him dead before he could look like him - the difference is that he can use that body in a physical way. That is why when Locke asked Christian for help in the well, Christian said he could not, probably because he cannot actually touch or physcially help Locke.

And to be honest, I don't think MIB is/has been Christian the whole time, it just doesn't fit or seem the case. MIB kinda looked surprised when Jack said he saw his dead father, and that he kinda pulled that 'you needed to find water' reply out of the blue, either it was a good guess or he scanned his mind there and then. I dunno, there are just certain instances which make me think that MIB, Jacob and even The Island have used Christian Sheppard to get things done before. Has everybody fogotten this....this does not seem like the actions, words or intent of the MIB

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Also 'Kate's Horse', I used to think that was significant like the Hurley bird also, but its getting to the point where whatever it was, it has no real importance now. I mean neither lead them to do anything or made a significant change to anything. I thought the horse could've just been part of the farm that was stationed at The Flame. There were tons of farm animals there.

MIB could have used Christian in a physical way, though, since his body was there. I don't see why this would be any different than Locke

Unless he isn't dead?

The only other possibility is that Christian is not dead, maybe MIB is using that as his A-bomb to pull out on Jack? Maybe he has had Christian this whole time, saved and kept and is actually serving the MIB like one of his 'claimed'.

Claire smiled when she asked Jack if MIB had told him that it was him pretending to be their father, and it just looked like she had her own private joke going or she knew more.

Well that would mean Christian was risen from the dead, and Locke could do the same.

I don't read too much into how the actors react to things. There seems to be a lot of analysis of the looks on characters faces when things are said.
I understand the subtleties of acting, but I think it's placing stock in something that's not really there.
Most of these actors have no clue what is going on in the next episode

It doesn't matter if they know or not, if there is anything to be seen in their reactions, they will be directed to do so. I'm just sayin, usually everything we see or hear is for a reason.

Which is exactly what I said will happen. I believe once the realities merge, John Locke will be risen again. Whether we just see the smoke monster fly out of his body, or have his old body emerge from the beach, I dunno. Just think/hope that's how it's gonna go.

What is this business about MIB scanning minds? That sounds purely made up. If he had the ability to scan minds he would have known Sawyer was planning to double cross him, the candidates were planning to escape on the boat, and that Sayid didn't kill Desmond, etc. etc. etc.

hes stuck in locke's body now and cant do it anymore?

I too am of the mind that real Locke is returning. It's possible that he won't, but thematically I doubt it not happening.
I felt pretty strongly that it would happen all along, but last week really sealed it I think. When MIB called John Locke a sucker, I felt it was confirmation.
Seems unlikely to slap him in the face like that, and not have him eat those words.

I think it's obvious that he can scan people's pasts, and knows things about people on the island. He definitely has those type of powers, like Jacob does.
I don't think he can flat out read minds though. There's been nothing to really indicate that.

Well he's done it to Eko and Richard definitely. I'm not saying he can scan their minds and figure out what they are going to do. But he can scan their pasts, and at least if he has some other skills to it, scan their mind to see what they are thinking at the time. Like Jack asked him WHY he supposedly posed as Christian in the jungle, and since Jack was thinking about when he was following Christian when he asked him, maybe MIB picked up that it lead him to find water/the caves.

Yeah I didn't mean or suggest that was a definite case.

Who was it laughed off my idea of Locke coming back from the dead way back when anyway?

No idea but I have never subscribed to the idea of him being dead. He's been "dead" since the finale of Season 4. He's a pretty damn important character to the show, and hugely popular.
As far as a "main character" on Lost goes, I think he shares that role with Jack. I will be a bit suprised if he doesn't come back.

My prediction is that his return is the final cliffhanger. It will probably be the huge moment that ends the episode before the finale.

Kate's Horse is not the monster (as confirmed by producers this year)

The difference between needing Locke's body and Christian's body is simple: Being Christian would not have gotten him an audience with Jacob.

Once he was able to manipulate Locke into being the leader of the others and gain their trust, he was able to use that on Richard and Ben to get into Jacob's temple at the foot and use Ben to kill Jacob.

It was all about finding the right loophole to get to that point.

My theory is now that Jacob is dead, he needs to get all the candidate's off the island so he can leave too. If there are no remaining candidates, there is noone to hold him back. (Though I think everyone assumes this).

I think MiB is also the reasoning behind the whole getting pregnant on the island thing. I assume if people cannot get pregnant there, it was harder to produce new groups of candidates.

I was thinking about it, and maybe a lot of us had the wrong idea about MIB needing Locke's body.
Maybe he can just imitate the dead, and only needed Locke to kill himself. The body was brought back as part of simulating the conditions of 815.
MIB needed Locke's body brought back so people, namely Ben and Richard, would believe that Locke had risen from the dead and they would then take him to Jacob.
That could be why he said he needed the body brought back.

That would put rest to the idea that he needs the physical body of a dead person on the island to replicate them. It just so happens that the body of everyone he has posed as is on the island, except Isabella.

That's the best I got right now. An episode highlighting MIB's history/powers is really key

Well yeah I thought all of that was agreed and known; that they needed his body, and they needed to recreate the conditions as best they could so they could make it back; the guitar, Christian's shoes on Locke, Sayid in cuffs not kate etc

I still think the main question is not what his true powers is or are, but what Jack asked him, who he has actually been and when. I want to know who the guy in the chair was in the cabin in season 3, I want to know who asked Locke to 'help him', and I want to know who was in the cabin with Christian in season 4.

but the good people said they needed locke's body to go back.... penny's mom and jaco himself... why would they want that if bringing them back would give mib a chance to leave

I really hope that Locke doesn't rise from the dead. And by that I mean the body of Locke buried at the beach.

It doesn't make any sense for the "monster to fly out of his body" because that is not his body. MiB hasn't taken over Locke's actual body, he just appears as Locke.

The only way I would buy it is if Locke's consciousness switches across to ALT_Locke's body - as we've seen happen in part to Desmond and Hurley.

The only problem there is that ALT_Locke is in 2004 whilst the on-island action is presumably in 2007(?).

They didn't know what he was plotting. If they did they wouldn't have gone through with that.

I forgot about that. Someone else was in the cabin with Christian at the same time?
I thought it was just Christian and Claire one time, and a mysterious figure another time.
Can you tell me what episode it was I'm curious to see it. I recall all that stuff with the cabin but I don't really remember any of the details.

Yeah it was the first episode of the 4th season, The Beginning of the End? - Hurley finds the cabin, and he looks through a window and sees Christian, just as another person peeps through the window, or key hole or something, you only get to see their eye.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__...x-Cabineye.jpg

Claire was in the cabin with Christian during season 4, Cabin Fever when Locke went to get further instructions.

See I agree with you there, like how Widmore said Locke needed to be back on the Island or the wrong side will win. I believe at that point and what he was saying was that he knew of the MIB and that Locke was important but didn't know how much, despite the fact Widmore saw Locke on the Island back in the 50s looking the same as ever.

But I do believe there is one person who knew, or who was at least prepared for Locke to be used as a vessel for the MIB, Jacob. I think Jacob obviously has some kind precognition as one of his powers, kinda like Desmond, he sees flashes or something. But the point is, he saved Locke's life, he bought him to the Island and he didn't seem surprised when he saw his body enter the temple. I know you said about their reactions and stuff. But I just get this feeling Jacob's overall plan is to have faith in his candidates and have them discover their own journey, but also part of his plan is formulated to work with, and eventually weaken MIB's own moves.

Yeah ok, it is not Locke's body, but MIB cannot change again, he can only become the smoke monster, right? so in a way, there is actually another body of John Locke walking around, and if like you said, a consciousness is shifted from the real Locke to the body MIB is using, it will more or less shift the smoke monster out and have Locke back in his body. I know, I know, it's not going to happen like that, I'm just thinking with the simplest ideas in mind - my point is - they have a lot to play with in terms of bringing the real Locke back if and hopefully when it happens.

I suppose.

The way I see it though is that the Smoke Monster is trapped in the form of Locke. So, if what you suggest happens, Smokey wil be forced back into smoke form or into his own human form (MiB) and there won't be a "spare" body for Locke.

For me that's pushing it too far. Then again, this is LOST!

Yeah you are right though....

But when the realities merge, or whatever happens, I'm sure it's going to involve more metaphysical and supernatural aspects that will make sense of whatever happens, at least to some degree.

What if everyone who is in the alt timeline is simply bought back/merges with those on the Island, as in those who are still alive; Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Jin, Desmond, Sun, Ben, Miles - and then those who are not - Locke and Juliet (who is going to be Jack's ex wife) will simply be put there, their bodies and consciousness taken from the alt timeline and place back on the Island as new, yet original entities.

In my opinion Juliet is going to be a big key - she is going to be like Desmond, aside from being exposed to the same shit he was, in the same place, although at a different time, she also told Miles 'it worked' (not as a spirt, as a person alive in an alternate reality, I believe) and she is operating as a guide to get them all together to remember and have whatever happens, happen.

I honestly think we will get a shit ending.

THe islandwill play out with no jack and crew stopping MiB and all of tem dieing.

But then they will all regain the memories in the alt timeline and live happily ever after, having never went to the island but regaining their memories and relationships in the new world.

Except Kate who will go to jail :)

No, everyone is going to save their significant other because love conquers all.

I am worried about the ending. And everything making sense and having a meaning, I would like everything to be answered as much as possible.

Matthew Fox has said not all the mysteries will be answered, and that questions of fate and destiny won't be concluded either. It's going to more about the characters.

But then I have read different from Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse.

You call that a shit ending? I've been waiting for Kate to get her comeuppance for at least 3 seasons!!

This is kinda the thing I'm not getting. A lot of people seem to believe that Desmond awakening the ALT_Losties to what happened on the island will make them want to "back" there leading to the merging of the timelines.

My question is: Why would they wanna?

Island_Desmond had Penny but sought Widmore's approval. ALT_Des already has the approval and has now met Penny. Island_ Hurley has terrible luck and the love of his life is dead, ALT_Hurley is the luckiest man alive and has just met Libby.

Why would they want or need to go back to the island when they have everything they want/need "at home".

Obviously there are some twists and turns to come and that's all based on speculation.

Ill conquer your face with my cock.

I think we are at the same thing. Love is the bees knees, so they will still have each other in the alt world, where the lovers are all still alive.

I know, its as if they are all better off etc.

This is what no one knows though, how or what will happen, its too late for them all to meet and decide what to do, get on a plane and go back. I think it's just going to be a matter of them being in the same place at the same time again, and BOOM, some kind of mega mind flash or something will happen that leads to the merging. It might not even be a merge. But there is a reason for this new reality and something has to happen. What else could it be?

The regular timeline characters would not be happier in the alt. timeline. That's the whole point. We are seeing versions of their lives that could have been better, but at the same time they would not want everything that happened on the island to go away.

Desmond doesnt have his child and the friends he made, he cant turn his back.

I guess I also meant that the new timeline characters, at this point and if it wasn't for the other timeline and Desmond, at least they would not know anything, better or worse.

He's got time to have his son, he's still in 2004 remember.
He turned his back until Widmore literally dragged him back.

I have no idea how the timelines are going to come together, I just know something has to give. I can't wait to see what it is.
I don't think they will live happily ever after in the alt. timeline at all though. I think the regular timeline is where things will be resolved.

I agree that that would be the more satisfying climax.

I agree and would want this to happen.

The writers have stated that the final episode will take place on the island haven't they? Or was it just the final scene?

So after a bit of theorising and further study, it does indeed look like Ben is either going to die, or be shot by Juliet in the upcoming episodes.

I totally forgot about the Ajira water bottle Sawyer and co found in season 5 when they were time shifting. One of the people who Juliet shoots at gets shot, no doubt.

:(

You mean during the flashes through time?

Yeah. The outrigger chase between them and the 'other others'.

Interesting. I've been wanting to go back and watch some older episodes again, but I'm going to wait until the series ends.

I just shifted through series 4 and 5 last night and noticed the Ajira logo on the bottle, meant nothing at the time but now it seems as though Ben, Frank or Richard will be shot and/or die.

SO someone at work brought this up.

Eloise is secretly working for MIB to bring Daniel back to life. That is why she always seems to be shady and in the know. That is why she split from Charles. This is why in the flash sideways she wants Desmond to let it be.

I doubt that very much. She was the leader of 'The Others', Jacob's followers. God knows how many years she and Richard dedicated themselves to the cause of The Island and Jacob's will.

If anything she broke from Charles because she realised he was really only after power.

She said Desmond wasn't ready, and yeah she is shady but I doubt she has aligned herself with MIB. I would assume she is doing everything she can so end the battle against him, which could in turn bring Farraday and everyone else back. I doubt it though.

This is the going theory now. I think you forgot Miles though, as he is the one who went with Ben and Richard.

Id love to know what the three of them are talking about btw on their trek

Yeah I meant Miles, not Frank.

Be interesting to see if this is the only time shift/cross over cause /effect to come about by the end.

good interview with damon lindelof regarding finale (no spoilers)

http://www.sl-lost.com/2010/04/29/da...ore/#more-2772

Great interview

Would love to meet him one day.

Can someone confirm for me that the episode this week was a rerun. It didnt tape on my dvr and when I went to watch it on demand it was an episode from like two weeks ago. I just wanted to confirm it with yall so I could stop looking for it.

Yeah, they've had a weeks break (the bastards). Should be an all new episode next Tuesday I believe.

I smell a cull to be fair. Ben, on the boat, shot by the hot whore Juliet.

YUS, been dying to know this

Ermax, where are you getting your spoilers?

They better not show up in here or I'll delete the entire forum

I will cut a bitch.