Straight edge as a gimmick
 

Although I do believe CM Punk's new "edge saviour" gimmick is the most entertaining thing on WWE at the moment, I can't help but feel slightly crushed when I think of all the wrestling geeks and kids who "accept" straight edge into their life because they like Punk.
Seeing as I've been edge now for 9 years and it's been probably the most important factor in my life since becoming, I've always cringed when seeing little kids X'ing up their fists, this includes people who've never heard of edge before Punk entered WWE or have never had an affiliation with the hardcore scene.
Does anyone else feel CM Punk kind of sold out his beliefs by agreeing to make an angle out of it?
Anyone who knows about hardcore and straight edge will realise it's a movement that doesn't look to kindly on being raped by mainstream entertainment of financial purposes.

It's now a fad, lulz.

V

It's only a fad in wrestling though. I'd be more upset if it were a fad on MTV or Disney Channel.

Good fucking god.

This is true.

who cares?

He's basically the living entity of "don't do drugs" commercials from the 80's and 90's. It's already been pretty trendy since pop-emo and screamo invaded the music scene. It's sorta like getting annoyed at Undertaker for making goth a bit more commercial.

Well I'm def rep'n you Xero cuz that avatar and sig is beyond awesome!

Punk has been using this stick for around 9 years or more, just because WWE just recently let him go with it on their programing doesn't mean he sold anything out. He lives the lifestyle but he was also smart enough to realize it's a genius way to get heat.

Just like Kozlov gets heat because he's a foreigner. He's not selling out Mother Russia, he just loves Double Double E.

I think it was Foley who said the best heels are the ones that believe that what they are doing is completely right. That's all Punk is really doing. He believes in the straight edge lifestyle to the point that he is willing to stop at no end to "save" the WWE universe. Aside from the cult leader/ straight edge Jesus aspect of it, all he is really doing is telling kids to say no to drug, and alcohol and to think for themselves. Hell he is just one "say your prayers and eat your vitamins" away from being an 80's wrestling hero.

CM Punk has always made an angle out of Straight Edge. Face or Heel.
He's never "sold out his beliefs" because he's always himself.

Example: As a face, Punk is just the sXe guy who will take on any obstacle. As all faces are.

As a heel, he's a the exact same person. The only difference is he adopts the militant attitude similar to the group known as FSU.

If anything, whether this lifestyle (portrayed in gimmick form) is represented in a good or bad way. It's the best type of character to have around kids.

The only downfall I see to it is the faces telling him it's okay to intoxicate from time to time. So if there's anything you should have a problem with, it's antonymic feedback that is received from it.



Also.....lighten up

I've tried to be funny here...I just got negative reps.
From now on I'm being as serious as I can be and see how I go with that.

Murphy's Law: Try to please everyone, and no one will like it.

I see his point. As an awesome person, I am dissapointed that The Miz is making awesome people mainstream.

Hulk Hogan ruined milk and vitamins for me.

promotions need to look at pop culture more for wrestling gimmicks as a way to connect with the fans more, vampires are pretty big at the moment so maybe they should be looking into that but not in a gangrel sort of way but in a vampire without the blood lust way.

also they should look more into scene kids, emos and other faggy stuff that kids are doing nowerdays.

i mean back in the 90's it was about grunge,metal and rap and the promotions at the time seemed to be full of rockers, grungers and rap type gimmicks.

It's the new fad, like booing John Cena and cheering for his heel opponent, fun as hell.

It's all a gimmick anyway. Who cares?

i'm joining the SES and by that i mean i am shaving my head, i got half way through when my shaver ran out of power now i have to sit here for 2 hours whilst it charges, i bet CM punk doesn't have this problem

Of course not, he would never shave his own head.

but if he did he wouldn't botch it like i am

True.

that's because he is better than i am

I can't help but feel this is the case of 'I was straight-edge before it was cool, now everyone's straight-edge and I don't stand out anymore'.

I felt the same when Dream Theater signed with RoadRunner Records in 2007, thankfully they're still not a very mainstream band. :)

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He can beat of them zhem.

Yeah, it shouldn't be about whether it's mainstream or not, it should be about your beliefs, especially in this instance. There will always be posers.

If it makes you feel any better, most children don't drink or do drugs anyway, so they're technically straight edge already. You should be thrilled with the promotion.

Well, if anything it's turning a majority of them OFF to Straight Edge because Punk comes off as a pretentious ass.

A lot of edgers do too, but still...

Punk wasn't always that way, though. He was still a straight edge as a face. It's promotion regardless.

Oh I agree.

Wish he'd start wearing DARE shirts again.

So many potheads wear DARE shirts, though.

Better than Jeff Hardy as a role-model.

Good roll-model, though.

I'm sure he's sex free as well.

I'm so rude.

Rep is dumb. Don't worry about it.

lol

It's still DRUGFREE to me dammit.

Kurt Angle was heel for so long, it stopped me becoming an olympian

:lol:

"edgers" sounds so fucking stupid. How about you just call yourself "someone who chooses not to drink, smoke, or do drugs. I also have a tendency to get stupid tattoos, piercings, and a cock in my ass."

I've never done any drugs or drank any alcohol in my life. I go so far as not even taking advil or Tylenol or cough medicine. Its something I chose to do a long time ago and considering I'm 27 now and still have never done it I don't forsee ever drinking or doing drugs.

I've met people who were straight-edge.... And I use the word "were" strategically. Most people that are straight-edge in the sense that they draw x's on their hands and go to parties with only straight edge people, those types of people wind up doing drugs or drinking later on in their life.

The reason why?

Because "straight-edge" is just a way of people being non-conformist. Straight edge kids are just as bad as emo kids or goths. They all do shit to be non-conformist by judging and ridiculing people who are "conformist" and then getting offended when the same people that they ridicule don't accept them. It's really fucking irriatating.

Though I never have done any drugs before I don't think of it as "poison" or that the people that drink are stupid. I made my choice, and they made theirs. I have friends that are hard drinkers or hardcore drug users and I make my choice whether their drug use impedes my ability to have a good time around them. Some times it does. Some times it doesn't.

By in large drug users and drinkers are far more intresting that preachy straight-edge douches... and that is what CM Punk so expertly exploits to get so much heat.

When I first heard about CM Punk in 2005 or so, I became a fan and showed DVD's of him to friends of mine and when he said "I'm drug free, I'm alcohol free, and I'm better than you" my friends were like "Oh I see why you like him."

But I'm not that guy, but so many straight-edge guys are and Punk is a great mind to tap into that hatred.

Straight Edge is a huge fad in the punk and hardcore scene considering that's where it originated. However it's a huge lifestyle for some people. Some people also use that as their own identity. Some people also become straight edge because a few cool people they know were straight edge and they want to fit in and be cool too. Some people just don't do drugs, smoke, or drink alcohol and consider themselves straight edge by default.

There are pros and cons of the straight edge scene in punk music. Straight edge is completely foreign to people who aren't pretty hip with the punk and indie music scene. That's a big reason why CM Punk has become so over with it. CM Punk being awesome is the main reason he got over and drew heat with it. Plus he has a Bouncing Souls tattoo and the Bouncing Souls are an awesome band. I forget where it is. I think somewhere on his right arm.

Blah blah blah. I can go on about this topic for a long time, but I'll stop at this.

If only Lance Storm knew how well this could get over.

I do not see it as a bad thing that kids will look at CM Punk's drug/alcohol free lifestyle and want to emulate it (Ignoring the fact that many will drop it as soon as CM Punk is a distant memory.)

My problem is with the necessary face storylines going up against the heel CM Punk. You pretty much have to write his opponent as a drinker/smoker/whateverer and tell the fans "He's the good guy. Love him!" when he eventually wins, proving that being drug free will get your ass kicked by someone who is doped up.

It's a great heel gimmick, and it would have worked to have SCSA vs CMP ten years ago during the attitude era (where they were less concerned with holding back more suggestive material), but in this age where the target demographic is younger than ever, I dont think WWE's message should be "Being drug free is bad, see? Drug-free guy just got his ass kicked."

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oh no cm punk made some wrestling fans learn about my subculture and now i feel like i'm being exploited whatever shall i do

shut the fuck up is what you can do

Ian Mackaye broke edge
Ian Mackaye broke edge
Ian Mackaye broke edge
Ian Mackaye broke edge
Ian Mackaye broke edge
Ian Mackaye broke edge
Ian Mackaye broke edge

:lol:

WeX, it was a joke FFS.

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no longer edge

Seriously, people who bitch about straight edge like this are just as bad as people following it as a fad. Straight edge is something that should be personal and the reason others follow it shouldn't matter.

Hit the nail on the head. I've been Straight Edge for over 10 years, and when I found out about CM Punk, and how he claimed it, I was just like "Cool." It wouldn't affect me if he was just using the lifestyle for gimmick purposes because just like thecc said, it's a personal choice, and what other people choose to do with their lives is none of anybody elses business but their own.

So Trent, just listen to some Strife and be happy, even though they sold out too. Haha.

I don't think it's that cut and dry. At the Smackdown taping, Triple H said something to the effect of he doesn't smoke or do drugs either, but that doesn't mean he's going to be a preachy bitch about it. Punk isn't a heel just because he's a straight edge. He has already been a face and a straight edge. He became a heel when he started looking down on others and proclaiming that he is better than everyone else. Really, it's classic heel stuff with some modern variables to make it feel fresh.

He's just a sXe boy.
He's not your boy toy.

God damnit there is nothing more annoying than these fucking straight edge kids who ACTUALLY think they are better than everyone else and get pissed at people for A) "saying" they're straight edge when they haven't "proven it," B) "popularizing" straight edge (when it's so hardcore that it doesn't NEED popularizing, according to these fucks), or C) aren't fucking straight edge.

There were a bunch of these douche bags at my old high school and they would get into fights and shit all the time over the above mentioned reasons. Fucking wastes of life. They need to do drugs more than anyone else does for fuck's sake.

End rant.

Some punk straight edge kid threw a sandwich with meat at a vegetarian kid when I was high school. They started to fight in the cafeteria and some jock broke up the fight by himself whilst not dropping his lunch

Jocks > Straight Edge > Vegetarians

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin

But the vegetarian deserved it because he was a POT HEAD!

Sounds like a great catalyst for a Triple H Punk feud. Hopefully they use it, after HHH squashes sheamus.

Fair point. I dont know - Triple H might be the only one in the company who can go against CM Punk on that line alone because of his established credibility. I'm not entirely certain it would work for anyone not as tenured as he.

But it's not just CM Punk's opponent that bothers me. Listen to the crowds cheering as he goes through the list of vices we all suck for liking. They're cheering louder and louder every time. That sort of thing influences kids. I dont dislike the gimmick or the storyline - I just think it's a risky one in the era of the young audience.

WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN

the solution to this is called "parenting." oddly enough, it's a subject that punk touched on in a promo during his feud with hardy.

PARENTING?! You'll 3 to 5 for that nowadays.

There's only so much the uncool parent telling their kids not to go out and do something can do.

Yes, people need to be involved more with their kids, but the problem can hardly be addressed with such a narrow solution.

i can't even dignify that with a serious or sarcastic response.

This would be perfect timing for Roxer if he posted in the wrestling forum.

Can you be straight edge if you don't like bands like Minor Threat or is that part of the package? Would you be looked down upon if you didn't like those bands?

Really? HAHA

"Remember parents, if your teenager is treating his/her body with respect and staying true to his/her moral convictions; you might want to seek professional help."

My grandparents have probably been straight edge for like fifty years.

Millions of people who don't do drugs, before the straight edge culture was even remotely popular.

That was because of parenting.

In this day and age, parents expect everyone else to parent their kids. It's really terrible and shows in a lot of these ridiculous lawsuits that float around.

This is not a real thread on TPWW.net/forums

Not always.

Punk himself has said that his reason for abstaining was the fear that he would turn out like his father. I don't think it had anything to do with parenting.

And to provide some anecdocal evidence (take it or leave it), my mother raised two children the same way. They were largely exposed to the same things. One abstained from such behaviors. The other didn't.

There's more than one factor involved, and it's idiotic to suggest that having Mom around to say Dont Do That is going to be why someone chooses not to do that.

You can tell me the WWE has no business monitoring their content for the sake of children watching. I disagree (on the basis of them directing their content towards those younger audiences), but that's one thing. You're telling me, in the quoted paragraph, that parenting is the ultimate counter to whatever drug/alcohol influences come out of the boob tube (Do people still use that phrase?).

I know you're smarter than that.

As a sidenote, I think it would be great if WWE stopped marketing towards that same younger audience and gave us Attitude-era programming. Then the problem wouldn't be as pronounced. But that's largely irrelevant to this topic.

Xero - Its not a matter of getting others to parent one's kids (at least, my argument isn't from that). While I think we can both agree on the ridiculousness of lawsuits demanding censorship (and reparations) for questionable content, I don't believe that parenting in itself is the be-all-end-all to the problems raised by said questionable content.

(As an aside, I've been here for nearly ten years, and I've only now hit post 2000. I think that says something, but I'm too lazy to figure it out. Happy 2000th, me!)

"cm punk doesn't do drugs or drink and i hate him because he's a mean and nasty heel! i'm going to take my 12 year old body and go get drunk just to spite him! that'll show everybody!"

anybody with that train of thought would have ended up drinking anyway. stop being ridiculous.

I'm not entirely certain your conclusion is accurate, however, I do want to point out that while the Wrestling Is Real, I Hate The Straight Edge Guy factor is very real, there's also the possibility that the crowds- who are all cheering for the Straight Edge Guy to get his ass kicked - will send a message to a young viewer that maybe drinking and doing drugs isn't so bad. Everyone around him is cheering for it, after all.

If that's okay with you, then okay.

Any kid not smart enough to see that everyone is booing the fact that he is a dick, and not because he's straight edge, is probably too busy catching all the pokemon to care about drugs.

Adult fans boo CM Punk because he forces his lifestyle on people.

Kids boo him because he beat up Rey Mysterio.

I disagree that that applies in every circumstance.

But that's okay. This is a debate that has gone on since wrestling turned to showmanship. It wont be solved on a message board.

I wonder how big of an impact people like the Iron Sheik had on kids at the time hating foreigners.

I also wonder how big of an impact Billy and Chuck had on kids at the time hating gays.

I will forever hate the Olympics because of Kurt Angle.

True, Anybody Thrilla. Gays and foreigners are the most popular people in the demographic that enjoys professional wrestling. Look at how tolerant everyone is of Koslov and Lashley!

Xenophobia and homophobia in the professional wrestling culture, and even in mainstream culture, is another bag of nails I'd rather not go reaching into at this time. Shall we stick with CM Punk, please?

Is Lashley gay?

Essentially, anybody who portrays any type of character ever is going to run the risk of having any of their characters traits hated for whatever reason. This goes for any form of entertainment. The thing is, anyone watching should know the difference between fiction and reality. People who do drugs because CM Punk doesn't are basically morons, and if you spend all your time trying to cater to morons, you're basically wasting your time.

Look at the other side of it. Kids LOVE Jeff Hardy...but do you think there are any kids who started doing drugs after they found out that he did?

I confused Orlando Jordan and Bobby Lashley in my head. My mistake.

Anyway, AT, I think we're just going in circles at this point. Your point is valid. I disagree with it, but at this point I don't think it's a matter of anything but opinion and personal values.

Shall we go back to admiring Punk for being awesome?

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I think you're missing the essential point that he isn't a heel because he doesn't use drugs or alcohol. He was straight edge as a face too. He's a heel because now he's preachy and suddenly better than everyone else. It's no different than Kurt Angle saying he's better than everyone because he's a real Olympic athlete. The heel looks down his nose at the crowd.

I know Rick Rude made me want to become a fat, sweaty, out of shape loser.

Speaking of Angle, the straight edge gimmick can be likened to the Kurt Angle abstinence drive (granted, not on this scale, but it works). Do you think people started having sex because Kurt Angle didn't want them to?

I just applied to become a Pennsylvania Pissant. Keep your fingers crossed for me.

Pretty silly to promote abstinence when you've got this laying around the house:

http://cm1.theinsider.com/media/0/67...0.400x600.jpeg

He's a heel because he's a sanctimonious ass. I understand that.

This sanctimonious ass is preaching something worthwhile, however.

Ever not do something because a holier-than-thou insisted that their way was the best way? You get it a lot, particularly with religious nuts, but also in political debates. Same idea.

Barkley is largely irrelevant because nobody has vilified him but the panicky parental crowd, but I'll address it anyway. A lot of kids looked up to Barkley. That was okay. He probably should have been a bit more respectable off the court, but his conduct was ultimately his choice. Perhaps he should have engaged in fewer of his vices because, well, he was Charles F'ng Barkley (and I very much liked watching him play as a youth - I have a Phoenix Suns blanket to this very day), but it wasn't something I would require of him. I don't advocate suing him because your eight year old said Merry Fuckin' Christmas to your parents. But I do encourage introspection and moderation to those with young fans.

It's not far removed from swearing in front of an eight year old. If you're okay with swearing in front of an eight year old, then that's fine. Others feel a potential problem exists and moderate themselves so the eight year old doesn't start swearing themselves.

I don't agree with suing CM Punk because someone's kid started doing pot because CM Punk said not to. I also think if the parents don't like that the preachy ass is saying something good (thereby discouraging the message for the messenger.) I do, however, think WWE would not be out of line for taking a step back and thinking "With all the people who watch us, should we really be doing THAT?"

Disagree with me all you want. That's all I'm saying.

And now we have common ground.

:drool: