So Fedor just lost
 

Whos sad?Whos laughing and saying see i told you?

personally iam sad he finally has his first legit loss.

30-2 still the greatest fighter of all time.

Honestly, I am pretty happy that he was defeated.

His stock dropped a bit, so he won't be worth as much to the UFC now. Not saying it's a huge hit by any means, but he's no longer "unstoppable."

lol Fedor

lol. Love how all of the Sherdog guys went apeshit on Florian when he said that Werdum had a better ground game and that Fedor should avoid going to the ground. Florian was about as right as one can get, it seems.

Florian is smart, and was right. He played into Werdum's hand.

Fedor just fought very stupid. He seemed pretty pissed off though...I get the feeling that his next opponent might be in a bit of trouble.

I too am happy because hopefully it means an end to this M-1 copromotion bullshit. That shit is poison to MMA. Also, it's a HUGE drop in stock. Werdum is not really the best (or even close to it) at heavyweight. Werdum's a great grappler, but there's no doubt in my mind that if Fedor had gone to the UFC or manned up and fought Ovareem that he'd be 30-2 just like now.
Not just Florian, King Mo. King Mo must be from the future because he calls everything exactly how it happens.

Sherdog must be retarded then. Dont give credit to Florian and King Mo for stating obvious stuff here. Fabricio Werdrum has World Class BJJ. World Champion BJJ, European champion BJJ. THe guy has the absolute best BJJ out of any Heavyweight fighter in the world. Fedor was just dumb enough to dip in his guard twice. It was a horrible mistake.

And Ovareem would get his shit pushed in by Fedor. Come on.

Let's be real, man. Ovareem has K1 level striking and top level grappling. He may not be Werdum, but he'd have a standing guillotine with Fedor's name on it. And if not he'd have some visicious knees to introduce him to. Don't forget King Mo trained with Werdum. Plus, everyone shits on King Mo's opinion, but he is always right. Look it up.

Newstead is crying somewhere right now.

HAHAHAHAHAHA, Finally this hela-overrated guy loses. All this guy does is fight padding.

I'm glad because I bet this makes it easier for the UFC to sign him. He'll probably retire before going there though.

His record proves he's not overrated. Don't get what you mean.

Fedor fights low ranked contenders.

dude stop being a hater.... hes fought top level guys

Are you crazy?

Nogueira, Filipović, Arlovski just to name a few.

Overeem would get arm-barred or chocked out. People forget that Fedor has excellent hands, and went 5 rounds with somone like Cro Cop, a K-1 level striker. Fedor got caught in the triangle, of one of the best BJJ practicioners at any weight class. Anderson Silva got caught, as did GSP, and neither of there oppenants had a submission game close to Werdum's.

People don't like to remember PrideFC, or just don't care because it's not UFC.

they didnt have five round fights in pride

Fedor's loss equals Meh

I'm sorry im just used to the 5 round championship fights, he went the entire 20 or 25 minutes, which ever it was.

I'm disappointed Fedor fell for it twice. He should have known not to do it again when he almost barely got out of the submission the first time. I would like to see them fight again in the future and I'm pretty sure Fedor would win.

I'm not sure anyone will ever retire with an undefeated record having fought good competition. Even the greatest fighters across different sports have a few losses but MMA especially confirms that just one mistake or one punch could cost you a fight easily.

outside of sylvia, he fought everyone when they were at the top.

But he hasn't fought Brock, and Carwin and this generation of heavyweights, and all people care about is what you've done latley.

exactly.... a year ago (maybe more) none of these guys in the ufc outside of lesnar would have been considered worthy of fighting fedor.

Exactly. Fedor ran the gambit in his prime, and now they want him to do it again, and if he doesn't he's ducking competetion and has never fought anyone. Even if you make the claim he's ducking competetion, saying he hasn't beaten anybody is just insane.

Fedor isn't even a true Heavyweight in today's MMA. Hell if he got on a diet and wasn't allergic to sit ups and trained a bit better he could probably make weight at 185, and 205 for sure.

No people are saying he is number 1 right now (or yesterday). But he is not fighting top level contenders and just padding his record. He is not even fighting the champ in his own organization.

Back when he was fighting crocop sure fine call him #1, but he is not #1 now or yesterday or the day before.

That's still debatable, considering the two ranked behind him haven't beaten much in the way of top condtenders. Sure there is Mir, but before beating a sick Noguria and his "lucky" win over Brock pretty much everyone has written Mir off as a top contendor.

Oh, and after 116, Fedor wont be ranked #1 anymore.

Yes but they are beating top names now.

The only top name either of them have beat is Frank Mir. And Carwin beat Gonzaga, but he isn't a top 10 HW.

If you're gonna demand half of a company's profits, you'd damn well better be fighting the best guys. Running from Ovareem was bullshit and it IS ducking competition. And frankly, you can't call yourself the best when there are a fuckload of guys standing in line to take you on and you go fight the guy at the back of said line. And of course people only care about what you've done lately. This isn't pro wrestling, you don't just get given titles on name power.

Even if he's old, he should still strive to fight the best. I'm not saying he should Chuck Liddell himself, but he could take after Randy Couture a little.

If he's not willing to fight guys on his level then he has no business fighting. The whole point is to fight better opponents and move up the ladder. MMA isn't about padding records to make a name for yourself. There's boxing for that. And no one except Savior thinks he hasn't fought anyone. He's just been avoiding doing it lately.

Lesnar beat Couture for his belt. He is a top name, but age has caught up to him. Fedor's not quite there yet, so he should be making the most of it.

Yeah he beat Couture, but Couture was well past his prime, and shouldn't have been fighting at HW at that point, but did fair well until gettin dropped.

Actually Lesnar had a pretty hard time with him. Fairly well is like saying the ocean is kinda wet.

I don't think he hasn't fought anyone of importance. I just don't think he has fought anyone of importance recently.

That makes a lot more sense.

He just fought Werdum, someone who will probably be ranked around #5 when the new rankings come out. Werdum was a worthy opponent. And to be fair, Overeem looks like he's juiced to the max. Granted he passed a test. Fedor hasn't gone on record saying he won't fight Overeem, atleast that I'm aware of. If Fedor would have won, then he was probably going to fight Overeem, as there would be no one else to fight. If he won, and didnt fight him than we can say for certain he was avoiding him.

he fought arlovski when he was ranked no 2.

I don't get the Fedor hate. I have a feeling you guys treat him like shit, cause he doesn't want to fight for UFC.

I don't hate him. I don't like the way he does business and the way he ducked Ovareem.

I don't think Fedor has fought any top guy since Cro Cop, and that was 2005.

And that was only 2-3 fights ago.

Andre Arlovski at number 2 is fraudulent.

He was just coming of being the UFC champion.

Thats exactly right.

Fedor is the best heavyweight of all time based on his skill, his poise and his record. However, on Saturday night he lost to Fabricio Werdum who he should have ran through. Fedor's loss is more of an example of his humanity than anything else. Finally, the cyborg that was able to walk through the treacherous landscape of MMA unscathed finally made a mistake and got tapped. It was crazy that he hung out in Werdum's guard in the first place and then after Werdum almost caught an arm it is unthinkable that such a great fighter would stay in as Wedum locked up the triangle. I was shocked, as was many other people that watched that fight.

If Werdum gives Fedor a rematch any thinking MMA fan would put their money on Fedor, it just makes sense.

Anyway their is a lot of hate going on with Fedor and their has been for a long long time. He was and should have been the Number 1 Heavyweight in the world for a long time until Saturday night.

The debate that used to go on was between PRIDE and UFC and which promotion was better. The only thing that was virtually undebateable was the PRIDE Heavyweights were better than the UFC Heavyweights, thus Fedor the top man in the PRIDE Heavyweight division was the top Heavyweight in the world.

The trouble happened when PRIDE folded and Fedor went out and fought. In the over three years since PRIDE is gone Fedor has fought six times against:

Matt Lindland
A blown up Middleweight that at the time was was considered on the top 10 Middleweights in the world. Since then Lindland has gone on to be not even a Top 20 middleweight.

Hong Man Choi
A freak show match that had really no baring on any Heavyweight rankings, and is totally useless for a Champion. Since then Choi has only one win against Jose Canseco.

Tim Sylvia
A solid Top 10 Heavyweight that despite a loss to Randy Couture ran through a fairly weak UFC Heavyweight division leading to this match. Since Sylvia has lost to Ray Mercer beaten 2 fighters worth nothing and has yet to weigh in under 300lbs for any of them.

Andre Arlovski
Heading into his match with Fedor, Andre Arlovski was the concensus number 2 heavyweight in the world and considered before the fight Fedor's biggest challenge since Cro Cop. Since then Arlovski has lost to an up and commer by the name of Antonio Silva and...

Brett Rogers
Leading up to this match Brett Rogers was barley a Top 10 heavyweight based on beating the very man Fedor had just crushed, only Brett did it faster... Since then Brett has lost to the man that most people wanted to see Fedor fight in Alistair Overeem.

Fabricio Werdum
A lower Top 10 heavyweight at the time of the Fedor fight. Since then...

Those are his last 6 opponents and they serve as a real rorschach test to you as a MMA fan.

In my opinion in his last 6 fights Fedor has 3 worthy opponents, and 3 unworthy opponents.

Compair that to the other 2 men that are concensus Top 3 pound for pound heavyweights...

GSP who in his last 6 fights he's fought 6 worthy opponents.

Anderson Silva who in his last 6 fights he's fought 3 worthy opponents.


Fedor's fights are okay with me. Just answer me who in the heavyweight division has fought better opponents in his last 6 fights?

Frank Mir, Lesnar

Frank Mir is roughly the equivalent of a Fabricio Werdum. That's Lesnars biggest win, and an old Randy Couture, who was getting the better of him.

But Nog beat Couture, and I wouldnt call that a win of substance, since he got smashed by Valesquez in his next fight.

And Werdum will more than likely be ranked higher than Mir when the new rankings come out.

because he beat the guy that was "ranked #1"

Fabricio Werdum is probably has the best BJJ out there in MMA and is with out a doubt the best in the heavyweight division. He Just came off this year winning the open weight ADCC which is the most prestigious accomplishment for any grappler

Are you saying that Mir and Lesnar fought better opponents in their last 6 fights than Fedor... Or are you refering to a different post.

I get what you're saying but Lesnar is a little different. He was gifted a shot WAY early in his career on name power (and I don't deny that as being unfair, trust me). He beat the top guys in the UFC at the time (except for Big Nog) then got crazy sick and had a long layoff.

Anderson Silva has already run through his division and basically fights anybody because he's already beaten the top guys (Marquardt, Henderson, Maia to an extent, Franklin twice, Forest at LH).

GSP is getting into similar territory. Hopefully Koscheck won't be a dumbass and will actually train his wrestling for this shit.

Fedor was a free agent and had a ton of the top guys he could have faced in the UFC, but went where the money was better. FAIR ENOUGH. But now that he's in Strikeforce, he skipped out on his title shot to fight Werdum. THAT'S where I take issue. None of the other guys actively avoided better competition. They beat them already and only have the division's scraps left to go through. If Fedor doesn't fight Ovareem next, I'm writing him off completely.

Won't Overeem fight Werdum next? If so then Fedor will have to fight someone else unless he waits a few more months on top of the few months in between fights.

That is just ridiculous.

I totally get that point, I really do. I've never read anywhere that Fedor ducked Overeem but I might have just missed that (if anyone could send me a link it'd be appreciated) and if he did really duck Overeem that's bullshit.

With the exception of Overeem and Barnett (who he was schedualed to fight until Barnett screwed it up) Fedor has fought all the best fighters outside the UFC.

Do I want him to be in the UFC? Hell yes.

Does his reputation take a hit not being in the UFC? Of course.

Fedor is still a great fighter and I'd bet on him against any heavyweight in the world still. He's not unbeatable though. Most logical people knew that a long time ago, and now the rest figured it out on Saturday.

Exactly.

What he said.

No doubt Werdum's BJJ is one of the best in the division... That being said if Wedum re-matched Fedor who would you put your money on?

Strikeforce is fucked up. In any other company, he'd have to work his way back up (and considering it's Fedor, that would mean 1 fight probably), but I see Fedor getting the shot over Werdum. Let's not forget that this is the same company that gave Jake Shields a title shot when he only had 1 fight left on his deal because they were banking on Henderson. The same company that let Cung Le film movies all year and rarely defend his belt. The same company where Nick Diaz skips a drug test and still gets a title shot. They do retarded shit all the time.

And for the last time, I am not writing off Werdum. We all know he is a great BJJ practitioner, but MMA isn't pure grappling. Just ask Demian Maia. All I'm saying.

Fedor is a great fighter. That's why it bothers me so much that he's not going for the champ and working his way down. We know he's a machine, we know he's beaten past top contenders. That's why he should be fighting the champ first. He shouldn't have to work his way up, because he's already there. Bypassing the champ for the lower guys is ridiculous.

Tough call. You have to wonder if there's a possibility that Fedor believes his own hype. And if that's the case, how's he taking this loss?

Werdum's been training stand up with King Mo. If he keeps it up, you gotta wonder...

Actually, Jake Shields won the Middleweight championship against Jason Miller in his previous fight, Dan Henderson was a title defense.

King Mo isn't a striker though, he's primarily a wrestler.

fedor for sure, but my point is, getting caught in his guard is not a big deal. Yea fedor was able to punish nog there, but fabricio probably has a better guard than nog ever did.

king mo has shitty stand up. Hes a world class wrestler tho

Yeah, plus Fedor was in his prime, in much better shape, and Werdum looks stronger than nog was too. And like you said, probably has a better gaurd.

For all of lesnars fights in the UFC he has fought people that were supposedly better than him. A lot of people thought putting lesnar against Herring was a bad idea, Herring was thought to be better. If Lesnar lost to herring he probably would have been gone.

If you are ranked #1 you should be striving to face #2....not #10

Yeah, this.

Who thought Herring was better than lesnar?

Crack head who had just finished free-basing?

and when you come in with a record of 1-0 every other guy in the organization is "supposedly better" than him

And I don't think Lesnar would have been cut if he lost someone who was supposed to beat him, considering it was his first UFC fight and second overall.

It was his 3rdRead the forums back then when people found out that it got switched from Coleman to Lesnar

As for your first point...

After Herring got embarassed by an undersized heavyweight by the name of Jake O'Brien most MMA writers thought Lesnar would win and if he didn't win he had no place in the UFC. But most of them thought Herring was a tailor made can for Brock.

As for your second point...

When you are number 1 you should strive to fight number 2 I totally agree with that statement. However lets be fair up until Mir/Nogueira in December of 2008 Nogueira was Number 2 so he couldn't exactly fight the Number 2 guy at the time. He also tried to fight Couture during the whole time, and during that time he was ranked #3 behind Fedor and Nogueira. Also Fedor fought Arlovski when he was ranked number 2. Then he tried to fight Josh Barnett who was also highly ranked at the time (not #2 but Top 5).

Your point is valid now however since Fedor and Werdum are now the only two fighters outside the UFC that are Top 5 heavyweights.

Ovareem may not be top 5, but god help the heavyweight division if when his contract is up he goes to the UFC.

There were some knuckle heads saying coleman would beat lesnar....


so basically your saying thaty you were one of the people saying herring would beat lesnar because I remember it being fairly unanimous here that lesnar was going to push his shit in

God help Overeem if the fight makes it to the second round and we have to see his gas tank.

Dunno. First round blood baths seem to be working quite well for Shane Carwin.

Well I remember it being 50/50 here including Rob who is pretty smart when it comes to MMA here thought herring would win.

I myself thought it could go either way. How could you be so sure? before that Brock had 2 fights. His first he could have just laid on the guy and beat. His 2nd he showed how he was green.

I am guessing Herring was ranked higher than Brock at the time as well.

Remember, he was the LH Cory Hill at the time. Just way too "skinny". He's 50 pounds bigger now. He still could have shitty cardio, but I'm betting it's better at least.

I don't know that he was really too "skinny" as he was too big for LW. He said the diet and and having to make weight was hurting his performances.

Perhaps my statment was more of a simplification on the idea that lots of muscle mass = bad cardio, which now that I think of it is incorrect,

Well generally muscle mass doesn't help your cardio, as those big muscle needs lots of oxygen to keep going.

NCAA Champion

shredded physique = cardio, not bulk

That, plus his size. If MMA has taught us anything it's the a world class wrestler can control where and how the fight takes place, even if they don't the skills to finish.

Fair enough NCAA champs have been decent atleast, but Heath was coming off a huge win over Congo who until that loss was set for a huge upswing in his career. So he was no jobber for Lesnar.

The only reason that Komgo was on an upswing on his career was because there was noone in the heavyweight division. In fact the only good fight he had at the time was against CroCop the fight after he got KOed. So what was the upswing? He then went on to get beat via split by Herring. Herring beat him by taking him down, which was and is Kongo's biggest weakness.


Herring has never beat anyone good. Hes just tough and hard to finish. He may not have been intended to be a jobber but he was.


Lets not forget Brock is an NCAA champ at HEAVYWEIGHT! The class with the least amount of talent out there.

God Help Overeem if he has to piss in a cup.


:lol: Somebody had to say it

The time after he got KOed? the time after was the Herring fight.
You brought up the NCAA

Kongo fought and beat Crocop the fight after Crocop got KOed

Anyone who seriously thought herring could beat lesnar doesnt understand wrestling at all. Yea everyone has heard that its the best base to have, but unless you were one to some degree or at least been exposed to it, you would never understand the advantage it would give someone in terms of body awareness, control of opponent, and cardio. Which makes sense that Rob would have the stance that Herring would win, because look where hes from. The UK has barely even seen a wrestling mat ever.

Herring still could have punched him out, if he rocked him in the first round Lesnar would have been off his game. Herring winning was not perceived as impossible far from it.

He did, recently. God clearly helped him.

Yea Serra beat GSP once upon a time too with a big punch... whats your point here? Are you seriously using the punchers chance argument as to argue that Herring was top competition for him. That can be said for any fighter in any divivsion no matter what level of fighter they are.

HOWEVER, watch the Kongo/Valazquez fight again and see what happens when a guy with great wrestling gets rocked.

Plus outside of a kick to nog's head and a punch before the match on Nakao when nakao kissed him before the bout, Herring has never shown much power behind his strikes.

I am not using the punchers chance with Herring but that would be his game with Lesnar. A game I thought and others thought he could possibly win because we haven't seen too much of Lesnar at the time.

But the fact is whatever, Fedor is no longer #1, which means he will have to work for it again.

I thought your point was that Brock fought and beat top competetion, and Fedor didn't.