So TNA's doing the Hammerstein Ballroom.
 

It's on Thursday, September 23rd. I suppose it's just a house show but it seems weird that they'd run it against Impact. Could it be a live Impact?

Discuss.

More credit to the rumoured TNA-ECW faction.

<font color=goldenrod>The fans there will shit all over the TNA product.</font>

lol kinda want to go just to be apart of what will likely be a great crowd.

Do it Xero. It could be an "I was there show"

I wonder if this means the TNAECW faction will officially debut on that date.

Y'reckon they could drag this "ECW Invasion" out til September.

First we had Dreamer. Then Dreamer, Raven & Stevie. Then Dreamer, Raven, Stevie & Rhino. Next week add Sadman. Follow that with Sabu. And then everyone from 2 Cold Scorpio to Tajiri.

Then at the Ballroom show it is revealed that the mastermind behind it all was...











"Daddy's Little Princess" Brooke Hogan

wow....really? i think most people have accepted the fact that ECW is dead and enjoyed the little bit of the WWECW reunion before that went to hell. 10 years later TNA tries to cash in on something that's already been done to death by holding it in one of ECW's old venues. Do they honestly expect a hardcore ECW-like following to show up?

How long have you known TNA again? It is their modus operandi.

I still enjoy Rhino and RVD.

This is either going to be slightly interesting or a huge failure.

If it is indeed a live IMPACT, it will be really interesting to watch.

Cant imagine Orlando Jordan going down well (insert gay joke) with the Philly crowd, Rob Terry will probs get shit on as well

Would be much better to run a "test" show in a smaller and less hotbed ECW territory but one of the unique things about ECW was how passionate the crowd was regardless if it was in a hotbed like the Hammerstein Ball or a smaller area.

It is very possible TNA would succeed on the 1st show or week but if their attempt at the Monday Night War has shown is they won't be able to sustain any momentum after a week or two later.

Didn't TNA want to move from Orlando? Is this going to be their new home?

It can be both.

Something "big" will obv happen. No other reason why they'd promote it so heavily, they've already been there before

I hope TNA gets the shit booed out of them there

The last time somebody filmed there on live tv the crowd voiced their displeasure with "Change the Channel', "Same Old Shit, "You Both Suck".

All of these chants would be heard in n the Impact if they didn't tell the crowd that they are party of the team, and had to play ball and pretend like what they were watching wasn't crap.

I'd love to see them try to tell the New York crowd to behave.

They won't even let their own fans shit on the product. I have trouble believing even TNA management could be defective enough to run with Impact live from Hammerstein.

Though I fucking hope I'm wrong. That'd be awesome.

TNA presents: Dancing with the <del>ECW</del> Extreme Stars

Dunno if it'll be a live show...but this is not the first time TNA has done a show there so why would the crowd shit on the product? Plus ROH will b there on the 11th as well, so I think it will be a good 2 weeks of wrestling in NYC

That was pretty funny..i remember that show...Thats wha happens when u put 2 non ECW guys on a their show lol

You all obviously want TNA to fail. Yes, the ECW thing is not a good idea, but do you guys even know what you're doing here? Have you not seen what's happened to the business lately? I mean I'm actually stunned at how ridiculous you all sound right now. Yeah Xero, go ahead and show up and boo the holy high hell out of the business you have supposedly been a fan of for years. Maybe I'm taking these comments too seriously, but sooner or later you guys won't have anything to complain about because there will be no professional wrestling on television to speak of. You want to complain here about it, sure no problem I can go along with that...but don't you dare show up to a live show just for the sake of ruining it. I'd rather you weren't a fan at all in that case.

TNA's ECW Group will be more successful than the ECW Alliance (not the show..) in WWE AND NEXUS COMBINED!

Though honestly thats not too hard of a feat to accomplsh.

I haven't seen Rhino wrestle in forever and he looks a lot smaller now. WTF?

The business is fine. WWE sells out arenas. Kids are watching. THE END.

I could see that. Good way to destroy the belt's legitimacy. First give it to a washed-up alcoholic midget then to a washed-up geriatric ass-bag.

This could be the most successful angle then ever ran with because they are unencumbered by being PG which means ECW or "The Extremes" will be able to be hardcore instead of the pussyfied WWE sport entertainers who can even choke a guy with a tie. They can blade, do riskier spots and even swear.

They could bring in Paul Heyman and let him book the angle completely. The Extremes could target a face each week sending someone through a table or busting them open the hardway.

I wouldn't go ONLY to "show up and boo/ruin the show", as I would enjoy a decent majority of the in-ring product, but I will express my disdain for the product any way I want. It just so happens that New York and Philly crowds can be the highlight of a night, if you're in attendance.

Wrestling as a whole is in no danger of going away ANYTIME soon. WWE is VERY strong at the moment, no matter what the IWC says, and the indies are in a boom right now.

The only reason I'm so negative is because I'm not a fan of some of the things they do. That doesn't mean everything they do/I complain about is wrong, and I am definitely not the measuring stick in terms of target audience. I'm not even IN the target audience for WWE or TNA. Very few of us here actually are.

However, I don't have to sit back and just accept something for what it is if I don't like it. I've explained my stance on TNA in the past many times. I don't want them to fail as a whole, but the company, in its current form, I DO want to fail because of how they handle it. They have the talent, they don't have the right people in charge and are attempting to be what WWE used to be, which is a huge mistake.

I'm not the only one who feels this way. You just need to see the steady decline in ratings during the TNA Monday Night Fortnight. They had fans who were willing to give them a chance and they fucking blew it.

Also, I just want to point out how disrespectful towards the fans' opinion TNA was when they told them they were "cast members". They were insulting the very fans who had been with them for years, who were going to a show to have fun, and were told to shut up.

RANT
 

How would that make sense? A bunch of rowdy fans bust through security each week and destroy potentially young and vibrant talent in a way that will cause the sponsors to think twice and possibly trigger a public relations backlash. Why wouldn't TNA just ban them from the building like they did with Mick Foley the night Hogan first joined the company? What would the motivation for the "Extremes" be? Why are they viciously assaulting a bunch of younger wrestlers who haven't destroyed their bodies with the "hardcore style"?

Also, who exactly wants to see this kind of violence for no reason? In ECW it made sense to have blood in a normal match between two guys who didn't hate each other because the entire company's gimmick was to be the most hardcore wrestler. It wasn't personal and they'd more than likely celebrate the match afterward.

A bunch of guys near-retirement bloodily assaulting a bunch of people doesn't just make no sense in the context of a wrestling organization it also doesn't make sense in terms of ECW. Tommy Dreamer was the perpetual baby-face! His feuds with Raven and Stevie were classic battles of good versus evil. It was only Raven's face-turn that allowed them to work together in the dying days of ECW. Are you telling me that the fans are supposed to buy that Tommy Dreamer is turning heel just because? Or if the "extremes" are supposed to be face they could even justify in their own minds the kind of pointless violence you're suggesting?

Even if the whole idea is to "bring back extreme" then, they're still doing it completely wrong. If anything they should have recruited a new generation of "hardcore" superstars lead by a heel Raven or a baby-face Dreamer. Let's be honest though, nobody wants to see a hardcore comeback with no context. Can a bloody brawl filled with weapon spots be effective? Of course, but it has to make sense to the crowd. If the wrestlers aren't trying to prove how tough and hardcore they are why use weapons? If they're not trying to cheat to win? If they're not balls-deep in a feud with their arch-nemesis? I don't think anyone would care.

I guess though, this could be a desperate grab for that tiny minority of fans who just get off on seeing someone cut themselves but, is TNA really going to be able to wrestle away those fans from CZW? I don't think so. The levels of degradation that would be necessary to woo those dozens and dozens of sick inbred fucks would be well over the kinds of content that Spike TV would allow or that intelligent human beings would submit themselves to.

The majority of people on here respect the kind of punishment that wrestling takes on the human body and that's without the added problem of barbwire, razor blades and blunt objects. Even if I didn't care about the concussions, life-long injuries and ensuing drug-use that goes hand in hand with "hardcore", I don't think that I could respect a bunch of nonathletic morons competing in the same company as the spot-monkeys of the X division. Those guys are pulling all the stops and busting their asses night after night without the use of barbwire, fire or steel chairs. Why am I supposed to be impressed by a bunch of geriatric retards who used to be part of something? (Hogan, Flair..looking at you too).

since tna puts on a better house show then wwe, i don't see the newyork or philly fans booing too much. if it is a live impact i see them marking out.

wtf is everyone's problem!? They haven't even started an ECW storyline and everyone is either calling it a bad idea or will ruin the company..


why can't you guys just wait and see how they present it to us before jumping into internet smark mode?

What has TNA done to earn our trust for them to do something amazing?

They have started it...Taz is denying knowledge of it, ECW guys are showing up at shows.

it's TNA, history repeats itself.

This was the point where I stopped reading the thread, just in case anyone was curious. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back and watch 2 Cold Scorpio vs. Pitbull II vs. Chris Jericho vs. Shane Douglas for the TV Title from '96 to figure out who was trying to be the most hardcore wrestler, because I must have missed that the first 15 times I watched it.

I can't help but feel that DttS has overthunk a little there.

Pretty sure the average wrestling fan doesn't really consider hardcore wrestling/ECW in the regard and detail that you went into there Swiss. The stuff about Dreamer "turning heel"/teaming with Raven after being his blood nemesis for years seems particularly overthought. We are forced to buy heel/face turns and alliances every other week in wrestling, most are a stretch of reality.

Still, thanks for taking the time though Swiss.

DeathToTheSwiss - The initial groundwork MIGHT be getting laid down by having the ECW guys sit up in the crowd but you (and everyone else) should NOT immediately dismiss the storyline before it even gets started.


Razzamajazz -So your a fan of WWE never having competition? Your a fan of a product that MIGHT eventually be a top contender losing steam and dying?




I was NEVER pro TNA until recently. Why? Because the WWE product has been pitiful as a whole and I had to get my fix somewhere else.

RAW has been awful for several months now with only random weeks of actual goodness.

Smackdown was the best actual wrestling program until recently and even it is starting to feel the sting of monotony.


TNA has screwed up on a lot of occasions but so has WWE and we are all still pretty much loyal to them. But, for me, immediately dismissing a program before it even gets started is not only dumb, but it is bad for the business of pro wrestling as a whole.

WWE has no competition and in return has done nothing edgy or risky ......



so obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and mine is, wait and see how it plays out before you write it off. It just may be good...chances are it won't be and it will die a very fast death...But I'm not going to be a snob and call it bullshit just yet..........



btw, i say this with peace and love.

To be fair I am giving TNA more credit than a lot of people right now. I don't think ECW is the "big surprise" that is going to change wrestling forever.

However, TNA has already done an ECW stable, possibly twice. New Jack and Sandman were both in it if I recall correctly.

Again though, WWE is alive and well, we're just not their target audience anymore. Kids love that shit.

Competition is a GREAT thing, however, TNA isn't providing any. I've given it several chances, ordered a couple ppv's way back, even been to a house show. I just can't get into it. They've done so many stupid things that believing this next one is going to be any different and actually boost the company is a stretch. There's things I like about it sure, but the bad far outweighs the good and just I can't sit through the shit to see what I like.

WWE is also horrible lately. The majority of the time I dvr it and fast forward through a good bit (divas, guest host, comedy things) but in my view the good stuff, however rare, is worth sifting through the shit to get to. It's still the top company for a reason, and it's not coming down anytime soon, especially because of TNA.

Why does RAW get such a huge rating?

wwe : a musician who was great in the old days but is now in severe decline. After drugs, women, sex, alcohol (atitude era) they went to rehab and found Jesus (PG era)

Fans still remember the good old days and follow this artist out of nostalgia.


TNA : a white guy trying hard to be black to break into the business.

ROH : an underground band with lots of promise

CZW : is this even music?

So Shawn Michaels?

lol, were you not around in the late 90s? Coma?

For those who aren't aware of it, Heyman said he would only join TNA if he could earn 25-30 million dollars from the company, and that's obviously a lot of money, which TNA doesn't have... but if they get rid of Hogan or have less of him around they'll have more money to pay Heyman! How much of an asset is Hogan to TNA, anyway? He obviously isn't doing much for them.

when was sandman in tna, was it when they had the weekly ppv deal? i have been watching tna since they were on fox sports, i never saw sandman, now sabo was there, but i never saw a ecw angle. though i said for a few years they need a ecw stable with all the former ecw guys there.

This TNAECW venture is going to have the appeal of a car wreck.

Paul Heyman wasn't

Maybe not if it's done correctly, with Heyman in control of it.
Granted, the people who loved ECW may have moved on already, and bringing the promotion back doesn't guarantee better ratings. In fact, I think TNA (and WWE) are living in a time warp if they believe things that were successful in the past will automatically be successful for them once more.

However, Heyman made something out of nothing with the original ECW. And remember his years as the head booker of Smackdown? He even made me watch OVW, for crying out loud. TNA needs Heyman, and they need to make getting him and let him be in control their top priority, because what they've got now sure as hell isn't working.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sandman_%28wrestler%29

He was working with the WWE at the time.

You missed the point. What I was saying was that maybe the ECW in TNA (or in WWE, for that matter) would have worked well had Heyman been a part of it.

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ok so it was before they got the tv deal with fox sports during the weekly ppv days.

Can someone please tell me what Hogan and Bischoff have done for TNA? Made Orlando Jordan a freak of nature? Signed RVD and Jeff Hardy? And what good are Hardy or RVD or anyone else if they aren't used right? My God, aren't Hogan and Bischoff the same guys who brought Bubba The Love Sponge and the Nasty Boys into the company?! :roll:

TNA took a chance on Hogan and Bischoff, and look where it got them. It's time to take a chance with Heyman and let him run things the way he wants to, or risk having to close its doors forever. Yeah, TNA is doing the Hammerstein Ballroom... but if Heyman isn't there, involved in some significant capacity, then so what?

They're pushing Abyss, Jay Lethal and Kazarian. Good enough for now.

Yeah, watch out WWE! You're in BIG trouble NOW! Look at TNA's ratings soaring!
Of course, "creative" isn't the ONLY problem - "marketing" is another, and Heyman realizes that.

I never said WWE should be nervous... WTF

I never said you said that. I just was trying to make a point. TNA needs to do something huge (for real this time) and make some very significant changes to its product if they really want to gain viewership. It needs better writers/management, better marketing, and new and better ideas. Dixie Carter, Eric Bischoff and Hulk Hogan aren't cutting it.

...why is it getting so hostile in here?

Hogan as an authority figure sucks...

i would like to see paul-e come in but he is not getting 20-30 mil that is hogan wcw 1998 money no one gets that.

Hogan anywhere near a wrestling ring in 2010 sucks.

At least they can't ruin ECW memories for me because I will never see it.

Seriously, if they couldn't make RVD entertaining on his arrival, I will never give them a chance again.

Paul Heyman could have.

...I am TIRED of hearing and reading about how "great" Paul Heyman was, how "awesome" ECW was, how "If Paul Heyman was in TNA or WWE, it would be so great, he would change things around"...

...NEWSFLASH...

...Heyman WAS in charge of ECW and what happened? IT WENT UNDER. IT DOESN'T EXIST. If Heyman was so "great", why did he FAIL? If ECW was so "great and innovative", and people loved it so much, why is it not around?

...let it go, people. It's like when someone dies...no matter what he did when he was alive, everyone's like "He was so great, so nice, so helpful, what a kind human being"...

...if ECW was so great, it would still be around, because the FANS would've supported it 100% and the ratings would've been THROUGH THE ROOF and the money would've been flowing into the company and there would be NO WAY it would go under...

...and if Paul Heyman was "so great", his ECW would not have gone under.

Now, Vince...say what u want...but he IS great. WWE IS great.

End of story.

Aguakate, (the original) ECW went bankrupt because they couldn't get sponsors. Paul Heyman admitted that. However, that doesn't change the fact that he's a creative genius, that what he created with his ECW was unique and hugely popular (despite not being "mainstream"), or that he has the potential and ingenuity to help fix what's wrong with TNA. Do you know that his success with ECW is what led WWE to create a "Hardcore Championship," and led WCW to create more violent story lines? Do you know that, despite having no advertising and a low budget, ECW became (for a time) TNN's highest rated TV show? I suspect there's a lot you don't know about Heyman or the positive impact (no pun intended) he could have on TNA, but I and other people here can assure you that he can't screw up TNA any more than Dixie Carter, Hulk Hogan and Eric Bischoff already have.

...THAT'S a positive way to view things..."Hey, can't get any worse, what the heck?! Try it!"

He could quote easily screw it up more than Dixie. At least Dixie has her dads money to pump into the company.

But yeah, ECW had comparable ratings to TNA, with TNN treating them like shit and not backing or advertising them and with 2 other, much bigger companies competing for mind-share.

Of course, when wrestling was famous amongst a bigger crowd which the post attitude era of WWE killed.

Time for Dixie to realize that Hogan needs to go, he has not done shit for the company like he said he would do. He stated he would walk away if he couldn't turn TNA around In which he has not. If Heyman did not join I would put Bischoff in total control, am I wrong?

I guess you're wrong, look at your rep....:lol:
*Actually Hogan did say that though.

sick burn, Dr. Perfect!

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You dumb fucks, all I hear on this forum is "this shit sucks" or "why are they bringing back old guys?!?!" Now, in this particular thread, I read let's bring back Paul Heyman. Are you fucking smarks Bi-polar? Maybe what TNA needs is some fresh new ideas from new people. Bring back Paul Heyman, yeah that will work...... how is his creation ECW doing.... Ohh wait, it fucking went under. You smarks are fucking retarded.:foc:

Maybe some of you folks don't understand the difference between the BUSINESS and CREATIVE sides. Paul Heyman was in charge of ECW's creative and business sides. True, ECW failed and went under, but ECW went under due to the poor business decisions Paul Heyman made, not the creative decisions. How can some of you not grasp this simple concept? Paul Heyman has a great creative mind in the wrestling business, but he's not a great business man. So from a creative standpoint, I think he could be a great asset to TNA.

You're mostly right, BigCrippyZ, but there are some instances where the creative side effected the business side.

For example, as ECW began to grow, they were in a position where they could get widely merchandised and get a concrete TV deal. Some of this stuff began to happen, but it never fully took off because of the content of ECW. Heyman constantly was at odds with TNN.

He was adamant about keeping his product the same creatively, but this ultimately burnt bridges and blocked avenues that could have allowed the company to grow. It jeopardized a shaky tv deal, and definitely prevented moving onto a better one. At the very least, these deals could have kept the company afloat. It was always struggling to make sure the checks didn't bounce, and the phenomenon of ECW wasn't built to last forever the way it was going. It needed stability. Heyman was a visionary, so he couldn't see that some sacrifices had to be made on the creative side to make the business side work.

You can make of that what you will. It's probably better for his legacy as a booker that he stuck to his guns and never "sold out." At least among the fans.
But for the continued success of his own company, and the job security of his workers, (and countless others who would have followed them and had another place to apply their craft), it wasn't the right choice.

Thanks man. I see what you're saying and agree with you mostly too, although I view it more as a poor business decision. There needed to be someone in charge of the business end saying to creative, "Hey we need to tone this down just enough to get a tv deal, etc..."

It also probably would've helped to have someone on the business end dealing with the outside companies, taking their criticism and input, instead of Paul having to take criticism for his creative work from them.

I imagine he took it quite personally, as anyone likely would, when a TV or sponsor exec told him his product (writing, etc) wasn't good enough or too violent, etc.

He definitely lost ECW on the business end. And him booking in TNA would be a win-win situation for them, because he is great creatively and that's all he would be doing.
I agree that it is foolish for people to not realize this.

Heyman is also great at utilizing unproven talent. TNA has a roster that he could do a lot of great things with.
He's also wise enough to focus on the strenghts of a company, and not trying to imitate or compete with the other promotions. He would bring a real identity to TNA and highlight their unique traits/develop new selling points, rather than come across as second rate WWE, or a pestering #2.

Seriously, I have next to no interest in TNA now, but giving Heyman full control of the book would probably be the only thing that could get me interested. I'd go as far as to say it would probably even get me excited. It has to be a full on shift though. They can't half ass it and put him on the "team" with the others. The place is broken. They need to go big or go home.

this is why i assume tna booked the show. to test the reaction of the audience to see if they can hold shows there.

That crowd will shit all over a current TNA product with Russo and Hogan and Bischoff etc. running the gig.
But would they shit all over a "new TNA" with Paul Heyman in charge and that roster underneath him? I don't think so

It would be funny if they actually used it as the launching pad for the new direction, and televised it as a Heyman's first Impact as the booker, and they wrote Hogan off the show in the Hammerstein.
Hogan would never agree to that, but it would be fun

Heyman shoot on Terry Bolea and the roster drags him out with the trash

Damn, that'd be incredible... never gonna happen, but it would be fucking awesome.

id tune in...

I don't know why, as much as I'd love to see this and as amazing as it would be, picturing Hogan being dragged out by the whole roster made me laugh. :lol:

Even the current TNA will probably be smart enough to book to that crowd though. Regardless of what the company's direction is at that time, even they probably aren't stupid enough to march their bullshit through there.
They will probably just stick to RVD vs Nigel and stuff like that, and mostly ROH and ECW guys.
Although, they are pretty stupid. Maybe they'll have Rob Terry main event.

I just read that Jimmy Wang Yang will join TNA. WHY????? I defend TNA but stop with the former WWE guys, even though wang wrestled in TNA before, what imapact did he make in the WWE? Who will watch TNA because of him? Please for the love of God TNA grow your own stars that is one of your biggest problems.

well russo is pretty much gone, but the fans would still say fire russo, we all do that. on bischoff fans still respect him, he may get heel heat. hogan i have yet to see him get xpac heat he will still have his fans there.

He was in WCW and TNA before his WWE stint...

an also the list of wrestlers that never in wwe is pretty slim

So Angry.

I know all I am saying nobody really came to see wang he is not a major player. Unless TNA uses him right. My point is why sign wrestlers that never made an impact. A dancing redneck gimmick come on now.

Hire wrestlers who can wrestle and have potential for stardom.

A few of the wrestlers there do meet those qualifications, but A) Hogan is standing in their way, and B) the powers-that-be don't know how to book them.