UFC 128: Shogun vs Jones
 

How do you feel about the card? I obviously am hoping Jones to come out champ. Another match that sticks out for me is CroCop vs Schaub. I feel CroCop is on his way out and if he loses this one he should hang it up.

Kinda wonder why Shogun is a huge underdog right now. I'd have a huge chip on my shoulder if I were Rua

Probably because of the way Jones has won his fights, and that before beating Machida Rua had been very inconsistent.

He's 19-4-1. He lost his debut and an arguable decision to Machida. Not really missing much on that resume.

Jones is 12-1 (should be undefeated), but has less credible wins.

Don't get me wrong, I think Bones wins; but the line is way off.

I like how Bonnar avoids mentioning his name at first about losing to Jones:

http://www.mmaconvert.com/2011/03/04...or-shogun-rua/

WTF at the Shogun being inconsistent comment..

He was the man in Pride and it's pretty well documented that he was hurt coming into the UFC..

Pretty sure Shogun wins this with Jones putting on a good show..

You don't even watch MMA do you? He lost to Forrest and then had a very mediocre performance against an over the hill Mark Coleman. Whice you are right that injury and a long lay off played a factor, something similiar to the situation coming into this fight.

He won the Coleman fight and still had a bum knee..

I see Jones having a huge adrenaline dump.. Shogun has been to the dance..

I'm really not disagreeing with you, so much as trying to point out why Shogun is the underdog in the fight. I think Shogun should be favored, and I have him winning. Jones just hasn't been in there with a guy of Shoguns skill and caliber.

Akiyama is out due to the tragedy in Japan, and Dan Miller is taking his spot.

I am looking forward to this fight because of Eddie. I grew up with him and he still lives in town. I am from Chesterton, Indiana. I wrestled with him pretty much from middle school - high school. I can even say I beat him in a wrestling match!! (granted it was when I was like 12 lol) The only other guy I know that fights for the UFC is Darren Elkins(from Portage, IN and also wrestled w him, also his wife is friends with my exwife) and he has only faught on Fight Nights and got hurt before his last fight.

Anyways what do you guys think of him? I have followed him pretty close as you can imagine. His last fight had a crazy knockout. He had a pretty nice sized party at a local bar the next night. I think the Faber fight is going to really challenge him. Eddie is great at stand up and can def throw some knock out punches. It is going to be interesting if it goes to the ground.

I just wanted to see what others with a objective view think about him and this fight

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Wanna see this card so bad. Going to a close friend's birthday party instead tho.

Thank god, means Marquardt can actually win now.

If Marquardt didn't beat Akiyama he should have called it a career.

What?

http://www.badassoftheweek.com/lozito.html

Semi-related. Also, holy shit!

Hes an absolute choker and I thought he'd get KO'd by Akiyama, is wat I was getting at there. Dan Miller isn't much of a threat tbh.

Seriously? Shogun is a world class fighter and you're saying he is inconsistent? Gtfo. Bones hype train ends here, via submission

Just because you're world class doesn't make you incapable of turning in poor performances.

Let me put it this way, if the same Shogun that fought Forrest and Coleman shows up, he's going to get murdered.

One, that was years ago, two, he was injured. Dude is healed, he has an excellent game from his back, and is a deadly striker. Holding someone's questionable performances from years back against them as a champion is crazy.

I will accept the "he may be rusty" and the "bones size will give him trouble" argument, but highlighting two sad performances and ignoring his excellent wins against quality opponents is just lame

As you stated he was injured. Do you not see any similarities between 2-3 year ago and now? I wouldn't really call Coleman or Liddell at the point in his career in retropect a quality oppenant, with all due respect to Chuck he was done at that point. He did destory Machida though, but has since been out injured for almost a year. I actually see Shogun winning, I'm just saying why Jones is favored.

Don't discount Bones skill and reach.

To call shogun inconsistent because of his showings against forrest and coleman is ridiculous especially since he showed everyone that he got back to the form he was in during PRIDE where he fought for years without a single bad performance.

Now will he return from this injury as strong as he was when fighting machida? thats the question.

However I feel bones has an edge because he is so fucking crazy with his offense. He has outstanding wrestling and if you stay standing he will throw crazy ass shit at you. My question is whether shogun has seen it all and if hes such a veteran that he will make bones pay for taking chances.

I hope Marquardt is the last fight before the co-main event. He'd make a nice piss break/ booze refill.

Holy shit Schaub! Havent seen a come from behind like that in a while.

knocked the fuck out

stream?

iiiiiiiit's tiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime

So far I got Cro Cop and Schaub for fight of the night and Schaub for KO of the night.

Definitely looking forward to the earlier start times for the next PPV.

Let's go Bones

Bones Jones is looking good so far. I believe that if Jones pulls off the win he could name a number for his endorsements. He'd be the UFCs most marketable talent in terms or appealing to mainstream companies like Nike.

Perfect ending for the Jon Jones ride.

Believe the hype.

Jones dominated him. That guy is a beast.

he thanks jesus christ most of all for helping him beat the shit out of someone

Rashad is scared

Shogun just stood in front of him really, and got picked apart. Looked tired after the first round too.

Rashad is fighting Bones next! Damn thats fucked up how the ufc is doing this in the ring after the kid just won the title.

wow lot of booing for Rashad Evans lol

Rashad always gets boo'd.

I want to see Anderson Silva vs Jon Jones. Battle of the long limbs.

Jim Miller is so fucking class.

Bones Jones is amazing. I have seen everyone one of his fights and have never seen anyone land a good shot or having him in a bad spot. Calm. Cool. Collective. Dominate. Evans is a great fighter, but he better understand he is a clear under dog.

What a one sided relentless beating.

Did Shogun tap as the ref called it? Totally looked like it.

Rashad will get smoked

OH MY FUCKING GOD HE DID TAP!! I was so surprised after hearing the loud, viscious smack that started the final barrage that I almost missed the tap. And if anyone has the answer for Jon Jone's riddle Its my boy Suga! If he can't do it, NO ONE CAN

I'm not ready to ride the Jones train just yet.

Shogun only had six weeks to prepare for this guy. His camp was training for Rashsad and he had to reverse course fast. I give him credit for even taking the fight on such short notice.

The other thing is, this light heavyweight division seems to catch up to its champ alarmingly fast. When Rampage won, it was a new era. Then Forrest won. Then Evans won and it was another new era. Then Machida beats him down and it was "the era of the dragon."

Machida gets VERY lucky to beat Shogan, then gets beaten down in their rematch. Then it was a new era in the UFC for Shogun. NOW, Jones beats down Shogun and yet again, we hear the words "another new era for the division."

Jones is an INCREDIBLE athlete, but I don't think the guy is invincible. Evans is going to have a chance because of how much he knows Jones, and the fact Evans is a ground and pounder as well as an accomplished wrestler.

I also think Machida's style of stand up fighting would make for a better match with Jones as well. Rampage is such a monster and intimidating force, he might just bumrush Jones and try to neutralize the reach. Shogun, with seven-eight months of prep could take some lessons as well (just remember how much better he did against Machida).

I think ANY of those guys could give Jones a run for his money. However, I don't think the likes of Forrest Grffin, Rich Franklin, etc. could.

I hate the HE ONLY HAD SIX WEEKS TO PREPARE

YEah, So did Jones. How does that make any sense. And Jones fought MUCH more recently.

If you would read the news, you'd realize Jon Jones was helping Evans train for the Shogun fight. In fact in sparring sessions, Jones was tasked with mimicking Shogun. So he knew A LOT more about him, than Shogun knew about Jones, who is an enigma for those that get 15-20 weeks to study, not six.

Did you even watch the fight though? It didn't seem as though he had to figure him out much at all. He just walked through him. Jones didn't alter his typical strategy much at all, to be honest. I originally thought that he'd be alot more tentative about doing his flashy strikes and such until he opened the fight with a flying knee.

Of course all the Sherdog fanboys started making excuses seconds after the fight but I'm fairly certain that he just lost. That's it.

Marquardt bored me to tears.

The only guy who has a chance to hang with Jones is Phil Davis. Jones is the first guy who is a true MMA fighter, in 5 years everyone will be at that level.

There are no exuses, Shogun looked not to be in the best possible shape, and had terrile footwork. There was no side to side, it was all forward or backwards. You can't stand in front of someone with Jones reach and speed, doesn't matter if you're the better striker, he's going to beat you to the punch everytime, and he did. Footwork in MMA is very rudamentary, and Shoguns was awful. It's so bad that when someone flashy like Evans comes along and starts dancing people mistake it for footwork.

Also, Shogun was tired after round one, but hung in there, and took a bad beating in the third, I can't say I blame him for tapping, knowing his chin can probably take anything Jones had to give, but his body no longer could.

I also HATE the Muai Thai stance, with the hands aparts, instead of together at the collar bone, made it way to easy for Jones to shoot straight shots in there.

I'd say GSP and Anderson Silva are true MMA fighters. In 5 years everyone won't be at that level. Jones has a combination of athleticism and intelligence that few people can match. The fact is, not everyone can be a Michael Jordan, Floyd Mayweather, Manny Pacquiao, GSP elite level athlete.

Phil Davis is way too raw at this point to have a chance against Jones. He won't be able to handle Jones' striking.

Can somebody direct me to where I can watch these fights now?

GSP is an incredible wrestler but his striking isn't at that level, Anderson has awesome striking but his wrestling ain't at that level. With Jones you have the first true MMA fighter in that all the tools are more or less at the same level, In 5 years guys will be at that level cus the days of being a kickboxer/boxer/wrestler/mua thai/bjj/judo athlete will be over or at the very least not at the level of MMA

Jones striking is not at the level of his wrestling. Jones relies on reach, and speed, and athletism. Staphan Bonnar outlanded him in there fight. Jones has freakish athletism, which allows him to out struck someone like Shogun, who likely had the better technique and skill in that department.

I think one of the reasons Rua was so worn down by the second was because Jones hit those nasty elbows to the body from Rua's guard. I've never seen someone blast elbows to the body quite like that from that position either

Not everyone will be at that level. The standouts stand out for a reason. They are head and shoulders above their peers in terms of skill, fight intelligence and athleticism. The general skill level will go up, but not everyone is created equal from a mental or physical standpoint.

It looked like the reach of Jones threw Shogun off completely, his best chance was on the feet and he didn't look comfortable at all.

I don't think he worked the body until the second round. Most of the time on the ground in the first round was spent with Rua trying to sweep Jones.

That and shoving his forearm into Shogun's throat for most of the time on the ground.

Shogun looked out of shape and worn down and his "foot work so bad" in the first round because of the knee to the head when he was trying to get up. He was essentially out on his feet and you could see he had a lot of trouble moving.

Bonnar fought him 2 and a half years ago when jones wasnt with jackson's camp and he didnt have the experience he has now. So that is why bonnar hung with him for all three rounds.

I realize he got hurt from that knee, but I got the impression of him being tired inbetween rounds when he was breathing very heavily, and just looked tired. I was wondering if it was the that he was hurt or tired during the first, and obviously he was hurt, but he seemed fatigued also.

Not disagreeing with you, I was making the point that striking isn't were he's strongest, and that it's his wrestling and athletism that make him such an elite fighter at this point.

when you get hurt like that you get fatigued.... your arms and legs aren't the only thing affected when you get knocked around. Your breathing and pretty much all your body functions fuck up as well... you know, everything your brain controls

I'm not disputing he was rocked, he cleary was, and we've seen him eat big shots in the past and recover, which he seemed to do once the round ended. I guess Shogun just didn't appear to be in the best of shape, though apperances aren't everything. But I did get the impression he was tired inbetween the rounds.

Oh and Rashad kicked Greg Jackson to the curb, and said he isn't that good anymore, or something along those lines.

He also said he told Greg Jackson not to bring Jon Jones into the camp I guess, and now he's all bum hurt that he's jackons pride and joy.

Greg Jackson's camp are holding onto Jones and Rashad is pissed because he was there first

Can't blame Jackson, he will make much more money from Jones than Evans, atleast I would say so right here and now.

Jones*

Thats what I said...

Goddamn, Bones is amazing. I had him winning, but not with that much dominance. Outstruck Shogun for fun. You could basically see it was over after the portion of the first round where Shogun was on his back. When he got up, he just looked befuddled and dead tired.

Loving his style

no.

Bones was amazing. Plain and simple. I don't think the big problem with Shad's decision is so granular. The problem is on a bigger scale. Will Grudge stop fucking with Jacksons all together? What about Tristar? WIll Shad be able to head up to Montreal in confidence? This debacle is making the entire family pick sides in this feud.


And i fuckin love it! I hope shad comes out dancing, and moving and faking shooting doubles to get into range and drop haymakers and finally take him down and GNP that ass and....


I am a Rashad Evans fan, get in the Kiss K7's ass line.

So happy for Jones Rogan was funny to "Headbutt to the...uhh stomach?"

i like to believe it was a headbutt to the solar plexus, but fuck knows.

also it's amazing how much taller jones looked even though officially he only has 3 inches in height on shogun.

How do you even prepare for Jones, outside of really nasty elbows from the guard he hasn't shown any real... trademark strategies I guess. Like, you watch tape of him and it's a different fighter every time...

You're saying that Machida isn't closer to a title shot, now that the guy who brutally knocked him out isn't the champ any more? :?:

I agree with Krimzon on this one. If Machida beats Couture it won't do much to get him back in the mix because he's supposed to beat a 48 year old man.

I think after Rashad, the UFC would be eager to put the winner of Jackson v. Hamill in. It's a win/win either way for them. Rampage is... well... Rampage and Hamill would give Jones a chance to avenge his bullshit loss.

Those fights would pretty much close out the year for Jones since I doubt the UFC is going to put him out there more than four times in a year.

After that, I think they'd give Forrest a chance if he keeps winning out merely because of his name and marketability.

If Phil Davis keeps winning in the mean time I think he'd also be in the mix.

I think Machida would have to go through either Forrest or Davis before he'd be considered a contender again.

Jones earned it. Honestly it looked like it came down to conditioning. Shogun looked shit out of shape and like he hadn't fought in a year, and Jones looked like he was in peak condition because he was. Kind of shocked that shogun didn't attack the legs, figured that was a no brainer

I think this debacle shows that they were never a family to begin with.


According to Rashad's Twitter, Jackson brought Jones in against his wishes, which is understandable. Why would Rashad want a potential future opponent training side by side with him? Jackson did it because more fighters = more money. So be it, this is prize fighting. It's a business.


I think Grudge will probably halt relations with the Jackson camp for the time being.

I doubt Tri-Star will since that's where Jon Jones started and GSP is still working with Greg. I don't see Rashad training up there.

where was GSP? PUSSYing it up backstage?

Machida is close to being cut, period. If he wins, he should be satisfied that he's in line for another UFC fight. He had to go 7 wins in a row before he even got his shot, and HE WAS A REPLACEMENT FOR RAMPAGE THEN! Dana doesn't like his style even though he knocks people out. Deal with it, He will have to run off seven more wins, against all of the 'ex champs' before he gets a shot. Franklin is closer to a title shot before Machida is.

i don't think he is. no shame in losing to shogun and rampage, although rampage is a bit shit right now. no shame in losing to couture either if that happens.

uhhhh i dunno at this point theres shame in losing to couture

i don't think so. the only people he's been beat by since 2002 are top level fighters pretty much.

It was uncle Dana's words that Tito and Machida are the LHW's with their nuts on the chopping block. He was a replacement when Rampage pulled out of the Title fight with Shad. He wasn't even 'next in line' or 'in the mix'.

He will need to run of more wins than Shad (2) or Page (3).

he still won though. i dunno. strikes me as odd they go on about expanding the ufc yet would still keep this 3 losses and you're out rule, especially if your 3 losses are title fights or against ex champions.

totally agree. I understand your point. Wins are wins, and two losses and one controversial win shouldn't spell doom for an ex champ. But, and this is important,
Dana doesn't like Machida's style. That's major. Dana has looked pissed crowning a champion three times:
1. When Anderson Silva beat Maia
2. When Cain beat Brock *dana did look butt hurt*
3. WHen he crowned Machida champion. Until then, Shad was a boxing, flashy, shit talking UNDEFEATED phenom. People boo'd him, but that's marketable!

Machida's piss drinking, circling, counter punch karate style was effective, but boring.