Has WWE given up on the Zack Ryder experiment?
 

Zack Ryder seemed to have a good thing going after winning the US title. His youtube show was still popular. Then he was made the bitch in the Kane/Cena feud. Then back to obscurity.

Do you think WWE has given up on him? He has potential, it just seems the whole appeal of Ryder has now gone away faster than Kony 2012.

This weeks episode of Z True Long Island Story has been cancelled.

Is he still doing it weekly? Havent watched in ages...

What was there to give up on? He beat his good friend Dolph Ziggler a couple of times and that was pretty much the height of his push.

I think the legacy of Z-True Long Island Story ultimately it showed WWE that they have a bonfide star that has charisma out the ass.

and

He's in the same spot as Santino and Brodus Clay:

Kid friendly mid-carder.

He sells Merchandise without being pushed. Its great business for the WWE.

Im not a Ryder fan, but I did enjoy his run to the "top". The WWE was forced to listen to the fans. Normally they decide who gets pushed, and who is booked. They make that decision and try to convey to the fans who should be over. In this case the fans decidded

Just kind of sucks it wasnt a more revolutional event.

He is what he is: a mid carder. I'm not sure what you people were expecting out of this?

Yeah, I mean, c'mon...it's not like he ever beat Dolph for the United States Championship or any--oh, wait, yes he did.

A Zack Ryder WWE title run. I will not be satisfied with Ryder's career accomplishments until this happens!

I love sassy DAMN iNATOR

What? All I'm sayin’ is give the man a MitB briefcase next year, let him cash in on the current champ at a PPV, only to have the former champ demand an IMMEDIATE rematch for the title, ex-champ wins it back, everyone’s happy. Plus it would add to Ryder’s likability as primarily a now comedy/comic wrestler.

Exactly this. He's a solid, over midcarder that has a good spot in the company, which in itself is an achievement as he's not really that great at anything. But he put the work in and got himself a long term spot in the company, a US title reign, probably end up getting some other midcard titles in his career and he's one of the more popular comic relief guys they've had in a while.

The "Zack Ryder Experiment" was never going to lead to him getting a main event push.

Yes they have but it's the WWE that screwed it up royally by having a 2 hour show that involved him way too much and it ended up being overkill not even Cena had been featured that frequently. Didn't help that during his US title reign that he was injured and ended up jobbing out to Swagger of all people and for him only to be transitional champ for Santino. Bottom line is if he plans to ever to make it to the main event level his character will have to be allowed to evolve I mean look how much other guys have changed so it's certainly doable.

A unified title run and a WM main event?

I don't like Ryder, really, so I don't care. Woo woo woo to Saturday Morning Slam.

Not sure if I'd call it an "experiment" on the WWE's side considering they've basically ignored him besides a couple of weeks while the fans have done all the real work keeping him relevant.

Although Ryder was really successful with the social media experiment and ended up showing the traditional view of tv exposure being the only way to be relevant or move merchandise is no longer true.

Tyson Kidd vs Zack Ryder : 2 hour Iron Man Match at Wrestlemania for every title including the Divas. Book it.

Broski's before Hoski's! :D:cool:

Who said expectations were set at "making the guy a main event talent/world champ"? Why is there no middle ground between "not pushed" and "maineventing mania"?

Zack is popular with the kids and adults alike, he has a personality and its passable in the ring. A strong presence in the middle of the card, a feud once in a while, a US/IC title run here and there, etc. is what they should be using him for. Sporadic appearances and nothing long term going on is what he's got right now.

Seems like a waste to me.

Tyson Kidd Vs Zack Ryder.

THE RYBACK beats them up for 2 hours at Wrestlemania while winning every title except the Divas (he only bangs them in the process but lets them keep the gold).

That's what he's doing right now.

Santino held it for six months more recently, is just as (if not more) over, is a much better talker, was actually given a PPV main event for a World title, and is in the exact same spot. I guess the Santino experiment is over too.

Well middle ground between where he is now and a main event push would be upper midcard level kind of deal with the likes of Ziggler, The Miz, Rhodes, Mysterio etc and he's not really on that level. He's fine where he is, and he does get occasional feuds as far as I'm aware. Hasn't he recently had minor feuds with Cesaro and Jinder Mahal? It might not be amazing booking but he gets more than most other midcard talents.

I believe he said on twitter or some other BS a couple weeks ago that he said he might be surprising everyone and totally repackage himself, to show he doesn't have to fit one specific mold or whatever. I remember first seeing him as The Broski after he was part of the awful tag team with hawkins and didn't believe it was him at first.

No matter what, he will always probably be mid-card, but it could be nifty to see what he says he can do, as far as repackaging.

the Heelski

"The Black Crow" Zach Ryder. Dressed in all black. Instead of Woo Woo Woo goes Caw! Caw! Caw!
Has wings, and attempts to fly.

I see what you did there and lol'd. :y:

Really though, I think with people like Bryan, Punk, Ziggler, etc. the era of the "big man" ideology is slowly dwindling...... with RYBACK being the exception, of course :D

I prefer Zach Gowan.

They gave up on him at the beginning of the year. It's kinda obvious when the Zack Ryder/Eve storyline was won by John Cena.

Have you guys ever listened to the man talk? He warrants no sort of prominent role.

I'm surprised nobody's asked about the "Jerry Lawler" experiment yet. Seems like anything that isn't around anymore is the end of an "experiment."

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They should have given him the chance for a heel turn here, despite Cena being "too big" for a program like that, according to most, if anything, to see where it could have went.

Here's my issue with the term "mid carder" nowadays...

I think a mid carder should actually be able to compete and be competitive in the middle of the card.

Ryder is a jobber who gets wins on Superstars once in a while. Unless we're counting the second match of Superstars as the midcard of WWE, he's just a glorified jobber. There barely are any true midcarders in fact. There's main eventers, guys who stick around and win matches with no real plan to move them up and then there's interchangable filler. Ryder falls into the latter.

<font color=goldenrod>Ryder went into business for himself, had a fun online show going, and got some TV time and a US Title run out of it. He said when he started Z! True Long Island Story that he was going to either get noticed or get fired. He did pretty well for himself.

I like Ryder, and I do feel bad for him to a degree because all indications are that WWE forced him to hand over control of his show. He's said in interviews that they cut out stuff that he films regularly and he's pretty much doing all the work for nothing at this point. But his show was only going to get him so far in the first place. He's clearly saddled behind Santino Marella and Brodus Clay in the comedy face department.

I think a heel turn would do Ryder well, and not in the smarky "serious badass submission machine" way. He bumps well enough and probably be able to thrive in a comedy heel role. It may not be glamorous, but it'd get him on TV more frequently. Heath Slater was the token solo comedy heel but now he's in a stable...so there's now a vacancy for Ryder to take.</font>

I dont even think he is at mid card level though at the moment. Lower-mid at best.

Might explain why there was no episode this week since the WWE probably canned it right before it was planned to be uploaded.

Either they got upset at the tone or didn't want him teasing anything about a heel turn even if it was done as a joke.

Probably the same reason for the lack of Ziggler since the WWE doesn't want him associated as much with the show anymore even though it also helped his character.

It's not a fucking experiment, it wasn't one with Tensai and it's not one with Ryder.

Everything in the WWE is an experiment, it's the World Wrestling Experiment.

Tazz Dan is crying in a corner.

I don't get the love for Ryback. No, I'm not putting that in larger font.

I mean, I see the potential, but not the massive circle jerk. It's wayyy too soon for the guy. "Looks impressive" isn't everything. I really hope he ends up a "Heyman guy" to be able to flesh out his character with some depth instead of remaining a Goldberg cutout.

As with Ryder, it was more not striking while the iron is hot. I don't think he was ready for a world title run even in the height of his frenzy, but still being treated like a bitch even when his 15 second cameos were out popping some of the "established" stars at times and he still wasn't getting any ringtime to improve it seems a crime.

Yes, he is in a "good spot" now, but it could have been better. Instead of merely comedy midcard jobber, he could have been one of those "credible threat" guys to push that next star to the next level if they took time to roll with what was working. I mean, they put time into a merch mover like Jeff Hardy who was only truly good for jumping off shit, selling arm pantyhose, and getting 13 year old girls to have their first orgasm watching him fidget around on the ramp.. so why not invest a bit more into Ryder?

I agree with Mr. Guycott. Ryback should turn heel and begin a slow-build to his eventual time at the top.

When it comes to Zack Ryder, I am somewhere between what Tom was saying and where Gertner stands. The dude just got to wrestle for the US Title again on PPV. Yeah, his angles at the beginning of the year were shitty, but they sucked for everybody involved, really. I think Eve might have been the only person to get anything out of it. Ryder is currently doing a bit of a team thing with Santino Marella, who is only one of the most over dudes on the main roster.

That being said, I do think that the WWE could give Ryder more on-air time to explain why we should invest our emotions into him. I read an interesting article by someone who has never watched Zack Ryder's show, and they confessed to not "getting" anything about his character -- it's never been explained on-air. Also, is Ryder's "lovable goof" really someone you can see with a sustained push? Is the character one for success, or is he always going to be that guy fighting from underneath?

I do think that they should have continued Cesaro vs. Ryder coming out of Night of Champions and given them another match at Hell in a Cell against each other, but with the way things have been going, we may get Brodus Clay & Team CoBro vs. Heath Slater, Drew McIntyre & Jinder Mahal at Hell in a Cell, anyway.

Ryder doesn't need to be pushed. The guy can market himself. The WWE has decided, for whatever reason, to fuck it all up, and not give him fair pay. He is too much of a character to really buy in the ring nowadays, it still doesn't mean they're not fucking up with him.

Precisely. (I mean what Noid said) It keeps coming back to not building stars slow over time and letting people grow into giving a shit and believing that growth. They seem to think everyone should always get over as quick as Ryback's "Feed Me More!" chant, and when they don't, they're not worth the effort... then get all pissy and anxious when they lose their top stars to injury or other interests and have to scramble to come up with someone who is "legit" enough to put asses in seats.

Ryder could have been a top-tier guy right now. Again, maybe not "World Champion", but someone who, for argument's sake, could have stepped in against Punk for an injured Cena and no one would have batted an eye about it instead of priming a guy who clearly isn't ready by not cultivating someone they had available for a couple years now. Ziggler or Rhodes could have been that top-tier heel by now instead of jobbing him out to the stars weekly and saddling him into a tag team for no reason (respectively). Even if he "wasn't ready" in his feud with Orton, Kofi could more than been that face right now who could step up if needed.

All would work if they worked toward making them look stronger over time instead of throwing them away after one short-sighted feud or stupid gimmick or derailed angle. Hell, even ADR would be more over by now if they weren't trying to make him "the man" right away just to have some hispanic guy for the Mexico market while Rey was away.

Too much hotshotting, not enough cultivating.

Yeah, the first thing I thought when seeing him come out and get the most raucous reaction on WWE TV in quite some time just by clotheslining CM Punk after a couple weeks of teasing it was "Man, this guy needs to turn heel."

Jesus Christ.

Missing the point.

I, for one anyway, am not saying he should go heel for the sake of going heel. It's just he's a one-dimensional "RAWR, MONSTER!!!" that will wear out his welcome soon with no type of development other than "ME, STRONG!!!" He had already lost some momentum by beating jobbers 2 on 1 on TV twice a week, because he kept doing it. It visibly and audibly was getting old even after a couple weeks.

At this rate, say he 100% was being pushed in the match as a face to be "the man"? How soon before he starts getting the cold shoulder because he will just be Mr. more-of-the-same?

It's more of a tactic to prolong his shelf-life and give him room to improve all around so that he IS ready in the future, not bury him for the sake of being contrary.

... HE GOT THE BIGGEST REACTION OF HIS CAREER SO FAR OVER THE PAST 2 WEEKS.

He hasn't lost any momentum. lol

I think the "point" you claim I'm missing is you don't like Ryback so you want him to change his character despite it getting over because you're unhappy...

Ryback doesn't have any significant feud or a major victory to be in a WWE Championship match. I would settle for a Team Ryback versus Team Punk at Survivor Series.

Whether it's too soon to put him in a title match is a different discussion.

The idea that he needs to turn heel is insane.

It's an acceptable break from hetero normalcy so long as RYBACK is involved. And speaking of a "Goldberg cutout," one more way which RYBACK is different than Goldberg would be if he still has his "fifth member" hood!

Kinda like Cena... the whole knock on him is the "never give up, defy the odds" SuperCena bit got old quite awhile ago. Doesn't mean he NEEDS to go heel, but it's A way to go that's a departure from what was constant and grating. He could accomplish the same by not being unstoppable even when injured. Perhaps, showing some doubt. Or even *gasp* losing clean without controversy, screwjobs, or injury write-offs.

However, in Ryback's case, he doesn't really have a character yet. Usually, one of the best ways to develop one IS as a heel. If they can get past all this eating metaphor stuff and find a clever way to develop him as a face, all power to them. However, he is by no means a merch machine right now. He's barely got one shirt. They're not jeapordizing anything by turning him.

http://www.logosempire.com/galleries...eries2002k.jpg

History is going to repeat itself. Heyman is going to turn on Punk and side with The Ryback.

I meant as a whole since Skippy came back. Yes, it's amazing he can lift two guys and hit his finisher, but it loses its appeal if you can see him do it ALL THE TIME. It stops being special. Crowd reactions have reflected it. I didn't say it dwindled down to crickets, nor did I say he wasn't getting reaction now being teased being fed Punk... it was just less of a reaction for awhile while he was constantly destroying guys like The Commanders-In-Chief.

You're acting as if I hate Skip. I really don't. Just said the character is one-dimensional and will get old fast. Much like how on one particular night, CM Punk got a bigger reaction than DX, and people made it out to mean that fanboys loved him soooo much they imagined this to be true every time Punk entered any arena. Also, not the case. He did outpop them once. That happened. May not ever happen again ever, but it happened that one night.

Unhappy about what? And more to the point... what character???

Okay, let's turn this around a bit. Say he goes on to Heck In A Cell and destroys Punk and wins a title with no type of swerve whatsoever. You're telling me that, as is, he is capable of being the face of the company for months on end, selling all sorts of merch, and continually putting asses in seats without any fallout because he can't be beaten?

You're acting as if I said he should go fuck off and die. Ryback is fine as is... as a sideshow attraction; a middle of the card spectacle that squashes jobbers. If he truly is leapfrogging into the main event picture, I don't see it working with him as-is without him merely being a transitional champion for someone they actually take time to build or dropping it right back to Punk and tumbling right back down the card.

At least in this instance, there is more reason for a heel turn: he gets the rub from Heyman (both by association and the fact that Paul is a godlike orator), he gets to be "dumb muscle" or "smart muscle" or jealous, or pissed off, or fed up, or whatever they decide to flesh his deal out as. It gives him motivation, either as Punk's aide or replacement... does *something* to add a wrinkle into what makes him, again instead of being just "ME, STRONG!!!"

Right now, he's just some muscular guy who happens to be on a undefeated streak. So was Lashley. So was Kozlov.





And none of this has anything to do with Zack Ryder, the subject of this thread. :(

That's fine. The jobber squashing was necessary. It was just an exhibition of his dominance and planting the idea in people's minds that he's unstoppable. Not just telling them for 2 weeks and then moving on. He was getting established. He's gaining momentum right now though. At a crazy pace.

The character is being booked beautifully at the moment and until they fuck up, there's no reason to panic and purposely fuck it up by turning a guy heel while the crowd is eating everything he does up. This isn't typical "ramming a guy down the people's throats". The people are reacting to the guy and they are pushing him as such. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. That's how it should go. It just so happens it didn't take Ryback very long to get the kind of reactions he's been getting.

I'm as critical about WWE's writing as anyone but let's wait for them to fuck this up before jumping to "Here's how to fix it" mode.

I think I figured out what to do with Zack Ryder!
 

I just figured it out, right now...first and foremost, Ziggler is eventually going to become WHC. That's important to point out in this idea.

Anyway, this is my idea: Zack Ryder continues to voice his disappointment in WWE, which eventually turns out to be all storyline. Vince McMahon finds out about what Zack Ryder has been saying and one night, comes out to the ring and invites Zack to join him.

He offers Ryder a chance to not only be on TV one night, but every night! Vince officially announces the "Long Island Gauntlet Challenge". A series of 10 matches that Zack Ryder would compete in; If he somehow wins all 10 of them, he earns a shot at the World Heavyweight Championship, but if he loses just once, then Ryder is officially fired. Maybe to even raise the stakes, he announces that Z! TLS is cancelled in order for Zack to get the chance to compete.

Thus begins the matches; 1st opponent or 2 would be easy. Say, Hunico or Michael McGilicutty. Then as it gets closer to 10, the challenges get harder for Ryder. For instance, there would be a handicap match between say, The PrimeTime Players. Through team miscalculation, Zack takes advantage and scores the win.

Then comes a match with some sort of legend of wrestling. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking Bob Backlund to give him a bit of a challenge. Ryder wins this as well. Eventually Ryder even faces off against his 'rival' Kane. Before that fight, he faces Daniel Bryan and beats him, then when it comes time to face Kane, Bryan ends up causing a distraction and Ryder finally defeats the Big Red Machine.

Then comes match number 10...his opponent...Randy Orton. Knowing what's at stake, Zack goes all out and gets serious in his challenge against Orton and nearly gets nailed with the RKO. However, Zack reverses it and when Orton decides to go for a RKO again, he fails to see Ryder get up and as soon as he turns around...ROUGH RYDER! 1...2...3! Ryder wins the gauntlet!

Which is where Vickie comes out and informs Ryder he wins his title shot which would happen...'right now'. Out comes Ziggler, the WHC, who seems confident that he would beat the tired Zack Ryder. He takes Ryder to the limits and as he goes for the Sleeper Hold, Ryder rolls him up in a small package! 1...2...3!!!!!!!

ZACK RYDER IS THE NEW WORLD HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION!!!! he proves he does have what it takes to be in WWE and as a result, this becomes the first step of Zack Ryder slowly succeeding John Cena as the 'face of the WWE'.

You're Welcome. ;)

Zack Ryder needs to win matches more often. So does Santino. Not against anyone major like Punk or Ziggler or anyone but make the midcard scene interesting by putting them in the mix. People love them (more so Santino) and there are enough guys low on the card that no one really cares about that can be used as enhancement talent.

I'd much rather see Zack as the WWE Champ and just for laughs instead of coming out to "Woo woo woo you know it!" he should come out to "Get ready to counter the Rough Ryder!" that never gets old. :rofl:

This. :y:

Putting the WWE Title on Ryback given his current direction would not be the most horrible thing ever. The kids will be happy and Ryback will remain undefeated. And then what happens when he loses? How does Ryback bounce back from that? Goldberg was fine until he lost, too.

Ryder vs Ryback Mania for all the gold...and as an added bonus Judy Bagwell.

BOOK IT!!!

THE RYMBLE IN THE JERSEY SHORE BRO! BOOK IT!