Sonnen vs Jones
 

How has this not been posted about??

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...aff-discussion

So Chael vs Forrest is off but, Chael vs Jones for the LHW title is on and leading up to it is a whole season of smack talk from Sonnen as they are coaching TUF 17..

I'm absolutely pumped about this whole thing, even though Henderson is the one getting fucked here..

Also, Phil Davis is taking Sonnens place at UFC 155 to take on Forrest Griffin, which will be an awesome fight..

I would really like to watch this they need to take it off fridays tho

They are moving from Fridays. I think we are gonna get the MMA version of the Monday Night Wars it sounds like.

Griffin/Davis is a given for Davis, gonna say we will see another smooth submission here or a solid decision win for Davis.

Chael/Jones, yeah the ride to the show will be great, but come on Jones will dominate. And of course Chael doesn't deserve this fight but I get the business of it, and I'd rather see this thank Jones/Hendo.

Jones will smash him though.

Chael's shit talking is only going to be good if he comes with some original stuff instead of the same canned one liners. Otherwise, it's going to be tiring quickly. He's got an ice cube's chance in hell of winning that fight too.

Does suck for Hendo. If he's paired against Machida in the mean time I think he should win that fight, I don't think he wants a second tilt against Shogun however.

Does anyone know what weight class the contestants are in this, I know it doesnt really matter b/c its not about them but just curious.

They need some flyweights and bantams real bad.

This just shows that a ranking system means diddly shit in the UFC. Doesnt matter your record or streak...its a matter if youre marketable.

This happens once in a blue moon... It's not a big deal. Does Chael deserve it? No, but TUF needs a huge rating boost and this is an exciting fight. Shit like this has happened in the past and it is always intruiging.

Did Brock deserve a title shot so soon? How about Couture/Sylvia fight?

They didn't come off loses, and they didn't jump to a division where theyjhaven't even gotten a win

Brock totally came off a loss.

So did Tito in the last incarnation of Tito/Liddell before Tito pulled out.

There was no depth in either of those divisions and at least the contenders had fights at that weight class. I don't mind the fight because I can't wait to see Jones smash him, but it is kind of a joke of a match up.

Brock beat Herring.

Rashad wants Machida again at the beggining of the year, before he moves down to 185.. I could def see that happening since Evans last fight was a loss to Jones and Machida turned down a shot at Jones.. That fight makes alot of sense.. So does a Shogun/Hendo rematch..


Sonnen has won numerous times at 205, dude.. Not saying he deserves this shot but no one at 185 wants to fight him and he already made Jones look bad by accepting to fight him and Jones turning it down..

Also, I hope that Heath Herring comment was a joke cause The Texas Crazy Horse wasn't exactly a big contender in UFC and the only reason Lesnar got the Couture fight was b/c he was marketable.. Just like the only reason Couture got the Sylvia fight was b/c Sylvia was shit and the whole HW division sucked ass..

I watch it on demand, online, or on Fuel TV as they reshow is like 100 times the following weeks..

Couture had a little bit more credibility in getting a title shot than Brock Lesnar did getting his.

He hasn't fought in the UFC at 205 yet Krispy. His 205 fights don't mean squat.

I thought they were going to have Hendo fight Machida since Hendo was the #1 contender and Machida was the presumed #1 contender after him based on the Fox card?

Plus, Shogun is fighting Gustaffson in December and I'm assuming Hendo wants to fight again so Machida makes sense out of that group. I kind of want to see Rashad versus Hendo because I think it would make for a great fight stylistically between two damn good fighters.

Hendo/Rashad would be awesome. Bones might destroy Sonnen in the 1st round but at least everything leading up to the fight should be worth it.

He was coming off of TWO losses to Liddell and a win against Mike Van Arsdale AND a year of "retirement"..

His first stint in the UFC was at 205 and he also fought in WEC (owned by Zuffa) at 205..

Maybe you guys should do some research or learn the history of the UFC before stating "facts"..

Shogun is fighting Gustaffson but none of the other fights are "official"..

And yes, Rashad vs Hendo would be amazing..

Hall of Famer vs 2-1 Pro Wrestler.

You call 2 matches a 'stint' at 205? Also, WEC doesnt count, no matter who it's owned by. WEC@205 was a hardly talent filled.

*edit before Krispy tries to impress us with his knowledge*

3 fights. 1 @ 205...

I'm pretty sure Chael was a Middleweight in the WEC. I may be wrong though.

Rashad is fighting Little Nog on Suoerbowl weekend, Helwani just tweeted

Most of his fights before 2006 were at 205..

:-\

If Chael loses he is going to get a Heavyweight title shot.

UFC wants to be considered a major sports league like the NFL. You don't see the NFL just putting the most popular team in the playoffs because it'd get good ratings (wish they would, it'd help the Cowboys a lot). You can't claim to be a legitimate sports league and give out championship matches just because it'll draw.

Does the UFC not want to be considered a "major sports organization" like the NFL? They obviously aren't at that level yet, but isn't that Dana and Zuffa's ultimate goal - have UFC be considered as legitimate,mainstream, and ingrained into the U.S./global sports market as MLB, NFL, FIFA, etc.?

UFC wants to be mainstream yes. This is actually the way to do it..putting people in a fight that can draw ratings. It's not like this is a common occurence ..they do it when they see an opportunity to hit it big with the ppv buys/ratings. It's a win/win , I haven't watched TUF since like season 3 ..and I will now tune in next season.

If that is the mentality UFC has, then they will never break through to the level they want. There is a reason boxing is a considered a joke sport and is on life support barring a handful of fighters who still draw. Yes, the system is different than team sports league but you can't seriously as a legitimate sports league if actually being the best at what you do doesn't take precedence over being popular or being able to talk shit.

So who is 'the best' right now at 205lbs?? Hendo is hurt, Machida turned the fight down, and Shogun and Gustoffson are already booked to fight each other..

Come on James Steele.. Since you are a better booker than Joe Silva and Dana White..

Just shoulda made Chael vs Forrest an elimination fight.

Although this will bring in more money and save TUF so you can't blame them.

I don't think any of those things really matter Kris P. The fight isn't schduled until April so Hendo's injury status wouldn't be a factor and it's not like the UFC hasn't taken someone already booked off a card before and Machida didn't turn the fight down as much as he didn't want to fight on a short training camp. Chael wasn't chosen because the UFC had no other options.

Chael got this fight because the UFC believes Chael's one-liners are going to rescue TUF. It wasn't about his ability to legitimately challenge Jon Jones. I also believe that Chael has run through most of his routine and most of his "controversial" comments were about Anderson and Brazilians, so most Americans didn't read too much into them. Sonnen can't go the borderline racist/bigot route with Jones and there's only so many times Sonnen can joke about JBJ drinking and driving.

Furthermore, I believe Chael's drawing power is a bit overrated. Silva/Sonnen I was intriguing because Chael was the legitimate number one contender and was the first opponent Silva had who actually engaged Anderson and was dismissive of his talent. No one had ever heard that kind of talk about Anderson and it was refreshing.

Chael dominating Anderson in that first fight legitimized his trash talking and created the intrigue that helped the second fight sell a million pay per views. However, Sonnen wasn't the draw, Sonnen/Silva was. The proof is in the fact that people didn't buy pay per views to watch Sonnen face Stann and the ratings for his # 1 contender fight against Bisping on Fox were terrible.

He doesn't have that mystique going into this fight. We saw Chael get submitted and TKOd by Silva and JBJ is Silva evolved. I think most people who aren't marks know Chael has little chance and aren't going to get suckered into buying this pay per view based on what Chael says on a reality show. It will probably do 450,000 to 500,000 which is what Jones/Belfort did. The "rivalry" between Sonnen and JBJ is manufactured, whereas Sonnen/Silva stemmed from Sonnen being a legit contender and challenge.

But James Steele is acting like there is a obv number one contender who is getting fucked here.. Other than Hendo, there is no clear cut contender.. Sonnen is still a highly ranked fight with a huge draw and no one to fight.. As Vic said, this fight will be huge and the lead up, will prolly be the best season of TUF in a long time.. They get a huge main event and save their tv series all with one match..

So again, who is a better choice for this shot at this time??

Chael's success against Silva came from him not believing the hype and stalking Silva down.. No one has done that to Bones yet.. Not saying Sonnen is gonna win, but acting like he has no chance is foolish..

p.s. remember he rocked Silva on the feet in both fights..

What has Chael Sonnen done in the recent past to deserve a Light Heavyweight title shot other than losing to the best fighter in the world twice and being able to talk people into the building? Besides, you are completely missing my point. UFC will never break past boxing if it continues to just play buyrate bingo with its matchmaking. It works now, but hasn't Dana and co. said they want UFC to become ingrained into sports culture like the other major sports leagues? You can't do that when their is no unbiased process for determining who gets what oppurtunities. Yes, bigger market teams get better time slots or what have you but they aren't guaranteed a playoff spot or anything just because they were barely above .500 or upset a really good team in Week 3.

Anyone who has fought at 205 and won at 205 since 2008.

Is Hendo's injury so bad that there is no way he could have a full camp before the fight?

Like NBT said, Chael/Jones is manufactured and is just a ratings ploy for a reality show on its last legs because UFC drove it into the ground and hoping the best shit talker can build enough hype. It has nothing to do with Chael Sonnen being one of the best light heavyweight fighters in the world to earn this title shot.

He has a torn meniscus..

UFC has consistently done this and this will keep them from ever breaking through and being a legitimate sports league on the highest level. UFC has a good market and fan base and will keep them for the most part, but they have stretched themselves too thin and they need to find a way to build fights that people will either pay to see or watch on free TV without being about who is the most marketable or talks the most shit.

I never said he was..

I can definantly see why they are doing it.. They did the same thing with Randy Couture coming in to beat Sylvia and letting Brock Lesnar fight for a title with under 5 pro fights.. Even letting him compete in the UFC with only one pro fight..

All those decisions were good ones..

Would it be that hard to move the fight a little later and have Chael at least fight 1 fight at 205 before giving him a title shot?

This is just like when Penn moved up to fight Hughes at 170lbs.. He was an elite 155lbs mainstay and they let him move up to go after Hughes WW Title..

Short-term financial decisions yes, but long-term it makes them look no different than boxing. I can't take UFC seriously when they give title shots out tl fo whoever is willing to jump into a lava pit for Dana or talk shit and do whatever to get some buzz instead of actually winning to earn a title shot. UFC has people like you and the other hardcore fans nailed down. It is casuaans like me who they are trying to get and this makes me roll my eyes. It will be huge if Chael can upset it or make it close, but if Jones just beats the living fuck out of Chael then UFC looks like a fucking joke because there was no justification for putting him in that title fight.

does it matter? I still have no idea why some people have such a problem with this, guys get put in positions/fights they maybe don't deserve all the time, it's been happening for as long as MMA has existed. It's like saying Frankie Edgar should have to fight somebody else before fighting Aldo or that anybody else who's won at 145 is a better fight etc. It's semantics for the sake of semantics, complaints for the sake of complaints. It doesn't devalue the belt, it doesn't devalue the fighters and it doesn't devalue the sport so I just don't get the whining. As I said

Penn had beaten Hughes before at that weight class though and had been pretty successful before that barring a couple of fights.

And yet this has happened throughout the history of the UFC and you are still in here talking about it..

Get the fuck out of here with that bullshit..

It's not bullshit. It's fucking reality. If that is how they want to be run, then they have pretty much grown as much as they are going to grow. I'm in here talking about it, but I've never ordered a UFC PPV. That is the whole point, right? Get more and more people interested enough in the sport to follow it like they do the the NFL or whatever and plop down $50 bucks every once in awhile.

UFC being a business isn't a legitimate excuse for them not basing decisions on actual merit instead of financial ones. NFL is a fucking business too, but you don't see them denying the Browns a playoff spot and giving it to the Jets because the Jets would get more media coverage and get better ratings.

Penn lost the inaugural UFC LW Title fight, then came back to beat some LW contenders before getting the shot at the WW Title.. The only thing that seperates these two storylines (besides 9 years) was the fact that Chael got a second shot at the MW title while Penn only got the one shot at Pulver..

The fact that you are arguing about it yet haven't watched a whole show kinda proves my point.. You are making out like this is a new thing yet it has been happening since the tourney style shows ended.. That was over a decade ago..

I was wrong on that record for BJ Penn, but the bigger point was he had been successful at 170 before, beaten Hughes, and had at least fought at 170 again before his fight (and lost by decision).

Chael is 5-3 in his last 8 fights. He lost twice to the best MMA fighter in the world, but one of them was REALLY CLOSE so let's throw him in there with potentially the 2nd best fighter in the world (if not the best fighter in the world). Makes no sense other than Chael turning a PR nightmare into an opportunity for him. It is a fucking joke.

The NFL is based on a set tourney style schedule, the UFC is not.. Stop comparing apples to oranges..

UFC doing this is more like when the NFL gives good teams nationally televised primetime slots against other teams that draw big numbers.. Which they do with SNF, MNF, and the TWO flex games on every team's schedule every fucking year..

My point is people like me look at this shit and see it very similar to boxing. We all know boxing is full of bullshit and is in shambles other than a 2 fighters who won't fight each other.

Championship fights should be treated as something fucking important and earned in the octagon just like a playoff spot. You put big non-title fights and hype the fuck out of them with storylines or whatever, but you championship fights should be between the undisputed best fighters in the world at that weight class. Is Chael Sonnen that? Fucking wait and give Hendo his rightful shot. Hendo should be pissed and I'm glad he tweeted that to Dana.

This would be like giving the Cowboys a AFC playoff spot over a good small-market AFC team because of marketability. Whats the point of even fighting in weight classes if you can just talk shit and get a title shot in the next class. Chael is a good fighter, but he does not deserve this title shot. If it wasn't so fucking blatant why he is getting this title shot then it wouldn't be that big of a deal. You can't seriously say that they booked Sonnen/Jones because they are the 2 best light heavyweights in the world and we are going to find out who is the better fighter.

People like you have no idea what you are talking about..

p.s. Penn had NEVER COMPETED at welterweight before he moved up to fight Hughes at UFC 47, FYI..

Can y'all seriously not understand where a casual fan is coming from with this? UFC tells me how they are the fastest growing sport in the world and how they are the hottest league in all of sports. They tell me they are nothing like boxing that is generally looked at with a suspicious eye, but then they turn around and give a good fighter a title shot out of nowhere other than he took advantage of a PR opportunity? I can't take UFC seriously when they do this shit and they have always done it which is why I have never taken them as seriously as I do "real sports leagues" that they claim to be like.

Thought you were talking about 63. 05/06 is when I started following MMA.

There are millions of things that go into matchmaking.. And yes, marketablity is a big one.. Dana White has always said he makes fights the fans want to see.. After the UFC 151 shitfest, the fans want to see this fight.. Jones needs this fight b/c he turned it down and looked weak for it.. Sonnen needs this fight b/c of the losses to Silva.. The UFC needs this fight for their quarter year superfight.. And I , for one, am looking forward to it..

It doesn't matter if I do or don't. Most jackasses don't know what they are talking about with any sport. Perception is reality, and for a sport trying to expand and grow into one of the major mainstay sports in the world they need to make better decisions regarding the sanctity of their championships. If the championships don't really matter because you'll just throw the best draw out there anyway then whats the fucking point of the whole thing?

63 was their second fight.. Why would I be talking bout that one when I'm making a case for guys getting title shots first off why moving up a weight class??

I have no doubt it will be a hyped up fight a lot of people will want to see, and I bet Chael doesn't look like a idiot but the championship is irrelevant in this fight. Like I said, if the title fights are irrelevant because the champ is either fighting the biggest draw or fighting an opponent deemed not necessarily worthy of the title shot all the time then whats the fucking point? Fuck the titles and just book supercards every few months.

LOL

This is going in my sig..

Somebody had said something about Chael fighting at LHW before and then moving around weight classes and now he is going back to LHW. Thought that was the context.

I'm gonna link this to Lorenzo Fertitta and Dan White so they can learn from you, someone who has never watched a whole show, how to run a successful MMA promotion..

Send it to them. I'm sure Dana will cuss me out like the unprofessional twat he is and then talk about how he could whoop my ass.

I have watched whole shows. I've just never paid to see one.

You are still missing the fucking point. MMA shouldn't have to be "booked" that damn much. The fighters wins and losses and organic rivalries book the cards for you.

I do hate Dana White, but has he not said he wants UFC to be considered on the same level as other major sports? Is that not the ultimate goal? You can't be pro wrestling without the fix and be considered on the same level as other sports.

I wish that boxing match between him and Tito would have happened.

Fighters have a say too.. That's why Bonnar got a fight with Silva yet Weiman, who deserves the shot, didn't.. Jones asked his Twitter followers who he should fight next and they all said Sonnen.. Jones asked for the fight.. As I said, he needs the good PR right now.. With the DUI, ducking Sonnen, and all the beef he (and Greg Jackson) got with the Rashad fight, he had to step up and fight who the fans wanted to see..

ESPN talks about Chael Sonnen, why would putting him in a big fight be a bad thing??

If it was just that simple, Jon Fitch would have had 16 title shots by now.

of course. But you talk like the absolute only way that can be achieved is with daft NFL comparisons. Which isn't true. At one point, boxing heavyweight title fights were the absolute biggest sporting spectacles on Earth and the way that business worked back then/still works now is nothing like the NFL and a lot like the UFC. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

I just think UFC/MMA will leave itself open to the problems that ended up killing boxing. MMA is the perfect combat sport to break through because there is so much skill, technique, etc. involved that it isn't just 2 dudes wailing at each other until one of them can't function normally when they're 34. I think you've seen the issue with following the boxing model lately as they've spread too thin and struggle putting on cards worth paying for.

Boxing died because they kept clinging to older draws instead of developing new, younger fighters.. That will never be a problem in MMA specially with the amount of young people training MMA instead of boxing and other martial arts and even sports like football, baseball, etc..

It was supposed to be Rampage and Sonnen...

http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/10/2...ed-down-tuf-17

For some reason, knowing they went to Rampage first makes me feel better. Rampage vs. Sonnen would have been a more reasonable match up for Chael and made sense because Chael and Rampage have been jawing for the past couple of years now. At least they didn't immediately go for the spectacle.

Rampage is done, which is super sad for me to say.. Dunno why he would turn it down b/c it's prolly the last shot he has at getting a PPV main event.. He'll now lose to Glover Texiera in a much lesser co-main event and then he'll ride off into the sunset in his replica A-Team van..

:wavesad:

Rampage woulda gotten eaten alive verbally. Even Rashad would best him often.

Rampage talks with his fists..

:mad:

Rampage is awful now. I hate his attitude.

Also James Steele is making zero sense.

I think it'd make more sense if it was a catch weight non-title fight.

NO

Cause then not only is Hendo still getting fucked but the fans don't get a title fight.. If that was to happen, and Sonnen was to win, it would be like when he beat Filo in a title fight but didn't get the title all over again..

A catch weight fight makes no sense. Why would JBJ want to cut even more weight for a non-title fight against Chael Sonnen? Dude needs to do some leg presses and go to heavyweight not fight catch weight bouts.