After Rewatching the Taker-Lesnar Match again...
 

It's much clearer what a tough match that was for them both. Undertaker literally can not stand after the first 3 minutes and they had to keep going for another 20. You can see now looking back on it and Taker had no idea where they are half the time and Brock keeps waiting for Taker to get up. Kudos to Taker for getting through it best he could and to Lesnar for carrying the whole match. It's crazy how you only realise these things when you rewatch them with the full story behind it.

Any links to mania matches?

Yea it seemed both were off a bit. They just didn't have good chemistry. That last F5 was so close to being botched, but props to Lesnar for keeping his balance. That long a match of course he's tired.

My eyes are hurting from all the eye-rolling I do when people try to suggest Undertaker losing wasn't planned.

Wasn't the general consensus before the match that Brock's style was too stiff for Undertaker in his later years?

Meh?

So essentially didn't Brock prove everyone who thought that correct by concussing the Undertaker in 3 minutes, thus causing the match to be terrible and not worthy of 'ending the streak'?

I liked it okay.

"Terrible" is probably a poor choice of word...no match at WMXXX was terrible

"Not up to the quality Taker's matches traditionally are at WrestleMania" is really what I meant.

I feel like his matches were getting worse after HBK. Still good, but he never came close to the HBK retirement match again.

Rewatching now and trying to figure out when Undertaker got his concussion. Thought maybe it was the suplex, but Undertaker seconds later does some impressive shit.

Honestly, it's a really good match, and the story is simply that Undertaker couldn't do it again. The idea that he didn't know where he was 3 minutes in is absurd. Undertaker was selling the beating with all his heart.

Kind of think the concussion is a storyline...

Did anyone get proof that it's not?

the concussion was real. Brock did a low single leg on the outside. Taker took a bad bump on the concrete...he was woosey after that. But he got through the match. I just don't think that only one person deserved to get a rub that amazing.

It could be stated that Heyman gets a bit of that rub too...

I am shooting from the hip here, but why would we assume that a concussion is something that switches on like it's a game? The impact can start brain swelling which will increase it's effect over time.

I kinda like what DTTS said, about the quality of the match kinda representing that Undertaker "couldn't do it again". Maybe it's not the five-star classic we all wanted, but then that's the proof that it's time for 'Taker to hang 'em up.

regardless of the reason, it still wasn't a very good match. watched it twice now and definitely won't go out of my way to watch it again like other streak matches. that's fine, but kind of disappointing.

Yeah, the way Taker kept looking up the ramp to see if Brock had made his way to the back yet, and then immediately sitting up in the ring once Brock and Heyman were out of sight, that's normally what you do when it's a botched finish and you weren't supposed to lose.

It was not up to normal Undertaker Wrestlemania standards by any means, whether that was due to an injury or not is irrelevant. Honestly the crowd at no point was into the match, probably because they all assumed like I did that if they weren't going to give it to Punk, then why would they give it to Brock? Especially with the news of Sting coming in, it just didn't make much sense to me that Brock would win.

I don't know, honestly. I'm just going off of other sports and how they deal with concussions. I've seen players after taking a pretty bad hit on the ground unable to move, in a state of total confusion and that was seconds after taking the hit.

How long does it take after the initial concussion to start swelling?

It look an awful lot like acting to me, more so than what I would expect from someone actually injured. Not saying that I 100% don't buy that the guy could and would continue the match after receiving a concussion, but I dunno enough one way or the other.

I would also guess that there's not really such a thing as "a concussion" as you'll never get two impacts the same, hitting and affecting the same areas of the brain and the effects can vary.

Still, dire match.

Wasn't great, probably wasn't even good. The match never really seemed to take-off, and the transition from the "feel out" process to "finishers galore" was pretty abrupt and rough. At least we know why now, with Taker being seriously hurt.

As the match was going on, I realized that it just wasn't clicking, and in combination with a lot of fresh talent tearing it up on the card, I said to myself "it's time."

I definitely thought the Streak would continue and Taker would perform next year, but based on the current roster filling up the Mania card very well with Taker, I feel that these guys (Wyatt, Cesaro, Shield, Bryan) should be selling Mania 31 themselves (with Cena obviously), and the attraction of the Streak is no longer needed by next April.

WWE has always been filled with great wrestlers, but this is the first year in a long time where the roster is filled with potential stars that should be ready to take the company. In my opinion, the timing of the Streak ending was spot on.

As unfortunate as it was that Taker was injured, it seemed fitting that he lost the Streak in the same match where he probably realized that he couldn't (health wise) and shouldn't (with the young stars) continue on.

With that, Taker had an incredible run with the Streak and drew tons of money and created a lot of moments, including the ending to Sunday's match. I'll miss it, but it was time to end it.

I enjoyed it upon watching a second time.

Somebody post the match

network.wwe.com

Can you lend us 20p for the WWE Network pal

Live in a real country, you piece of socialist scum.

Why? Other than watching the match itself, what proof is there to support this supposed MOUNTAIN of "evidence" that there's no way 'Taker could have won? I might sound crazy to some and I may well be in the minority here, but there's no way I'm convinced that he couldn't have hit the Tombstone or gotten Brock locked in to Hell's Gate and moved to 22-0.

Of course he 'could'. No one is saying he can't. People are saying that maybe it was time he chose not to. Not just for health and safety, but because he didn't want to tarnish his legacy by holding on when it's time to let go. Maybe, just maybe, he doesn't want to be ridiculed like Hogan and Flair and others who simply can't move on, no matter how crap they've become.

We may not like that Lesnar got the rub, but it is what is. There were better choices, there were worse choices. I find Lesnar to be a decent pick though; as strong as The Undertaker has been built up over his amazing career and especially in regards to the streak, it makes sense to pick someone who has also been built as a monster to go over him. Makes it more believable, in a way, I guess. Lesnar is one of very few people that could have been picked to win without making Taker look horrible, one of the few that you can actually see beating him when you think about it.

Maybe that's why it was booked the way it was. If Taker didn't agree to it, it wouldn't have happened.

This is all that needs to be said. Other than injury possibly affecting the course of the match itself, nothing happened that he didn't want to happen. His streak, his career, his legacy, his choice.

When was the last time Undertaker actually nailed Oldschool?

I don't remember him hitting it with Punk.

Old school is very difficult to nail, unlike yer mother who is easy and thus gets nailed frequently.

OH!

I wish that were the case. I'd rather my mother be a whore than dead.

wouldn't it be worse when she eventually became a dead whore, though?

I never said anything about "mountains of evidence"... the story of the match was simply that Undertaker is getting old and "past it", whilst Brock Lesnar is a fucking killing machine that will beat the shit out of anyone.

Stop being such a mark.

CM Punk gave me a mountain of evidence. We snorted it off my coffee table.

I thought Punk was a PEPSI guy...:shifty:

You didn't even mention Lesnar in your previous post. All you basically said was "'Taker looked sloppy, time for him to retire."

And also, if Lesnar's really such a "killing machine", why did he only sign a part-time contract a few years back? Sure seems like fans have for the most part conveniently forgotten how after he didn't get to play in the NFL, he had a pretty lengthy stretch in UFC/MMA, which if not for that fact we msy have NEVER seen Lesnar v. 'Taker, @ WM.

He was being the opposite of a mark.

Lesnar IS a killing machine. He could lose every match and he'd still be a killing machine.

Fans have not forgotten Lesnar's UFC or WWE past. Fans know he looks like and is a badass.

End of story, bro.

I think this is why Lesnar 'broke' HHH's arm last year. Made him look like more of a monster. If he can do that to the man the pushed a slightly younger, better Taker to the limit twice, then it makes it clearly believable the Lesnar is the kind of man that could finally end the streak.

I actually don't see how more people didn't see this coming. Looking back on it, I feel like an idiot for not even at least entertaining the idea that Lesnar would do it.

I'm not 100% happy with how it happened, honestly. I thought it was amazing how on Monday Paul Heyman had trouble getting reaction even though his performance, in my opinion, was perfect.

I think if he had allowed for Lesnar to take the mic the heat would have been better, but who knows with that crowd.

I thought there would be more fanfare surrounding the actual finish. It's obvious that Undertaker and Brock were going for a more MMA style match with some of the pacing and submission work and I actually really liked the match. If I had booked the feud there would have been interference because "screwing" Undertaker out of the streak would have caused people's heads to explode, but hey I wasn't booking it.

I was extremely puzzled by the way so many people were so adamant in believing that the streak would never end or that Brock Lesnar of all the possible opponents couldn't be the one to do it. 90% of the people campaigning for the streak to never end also had no ideas for how to retire Undertaker.

"Don't do anything special, just have him retire" was one of the most common things I heard and it made absolutely no sense to me. What major pro-wrestling retirement ended that way? How anyone thought that the WWE would waste that opportunity and that it would be a good thing is still something I can't comprehend.

I think a lot of the "it won't be Lesnar" mindset was due to him being part-time. Why give arguably the biggest rub of all time to a guy that isn't even there 80% of the year?

Nobody can bitch about him being jobbed out too much now.

We can be all thankful he didn't do his stupid arm-""""""""breaking""""""""

I guess it's kind of the same thing with Undertaker. He's gone 99% of the year and always gets a huge win at the biggest event of the year.

Doesn't make too much sense if you think in those terms.

If you want people talking about your product and tuning in to see where things go from here though, then I guess it makes a lot more sense.

I suspect Brock's going to be a little more than part-time at this point, however. Could be wrong. We'll see.

They could market WM 31 as "Who can beat Brock? The man who beat the streak!"

I sincerely hope not.

Beating the streak was only the second greatest accomplishment of anyone at a Wrestlemania. The first one was actually having a streak to begin with.

To me it was odd simply because of the part time deal. If he was signed to a 3 year full time deal I would have entertained the thought of him winning, but I simply did not see it coming.

Side note: I just saw on the font page that Vince is not happy with the fan reaction to the streak ending. So, it made headlines and we are still talking about it, what reaction where we looking for?

At the end of the match when Taker did the thumb to throat gesture I thought it was weird because most Taker WM matches end with his opponent getting overconfident and then Taker reversing it into a move for the win.

Storyline wise, Taker initiated the feud by coming out and challenging Brock and Taker lost the match, just like HHH, HBK, Punk and others before them by becoming too overconfident.

I doubt Vince is unhappy with the reaction. We all know how weird that crowd after Mania was. They were going for shock, otherwise Lesnar would have continued the beatdown after the match or they would have had interference.

Next Monday when Undertaker comes back to Raw we'll see a proper reaction. That said, what is the reaction they're going for? If they want to make the fans hate Brock even more, then have him challenge Undertaker to a retirement match at Extreme Rules or have him come out and gloat.

Paul Heyman needs to allow for the fans' hatred of Brock to boil over without getting too much of it on himself. Last Monday it was all, "I told you so" and then later in the night Paul Heyman comes out and gets cheered. "smart fans" love Heyman waaaay too much to get the kind of reaction that Vince supposedly wanted, if absolute hatred is what he wanted in the first place.

Hai again DTTS :)

Vince wanted more of an appreciation toward Taker, or so that is what is being said.

I, for one, do not believe that it should have ended. It will never be accomplished again, sure, but Lesnar gains nothing from it more than what he already was, IMO. He was already a badass and has beaten Taker in HIAC previously, so the thought was there. Like others, I believe it should have gone to someone that would benefit more from the rub, say Cesaro (granted he won and has Heyman backing now, so yea...), Reigns or even Sandow (if they learn to use him right). Fuck, I think it would make for a great segment of "BAD NEWS" and get Barrett back in the light.

I think the feeling is more of a "Oh, Lesnar ended it, meh." Personally, I wasn't upset that it ended or even that Lesnar ended it. I was more in shock that it was ended at all, but couldn't have cared less about Lesnar. It would have been more monumental for someone to capitalize on it that will be around longer. The whole vibe of WM XXX was almost "out with the old and in with the new". They could have had some new blood kill it, and that person could have moved on to be a badass submission machine. :y:

Yeah if anything he has to be really happy considering all the mainstream coverage the outcome has provided and the crowd being in complete shock was a perfect image for the streak being broken.

If he wanted a more active crowd, probably would have better to not have that much dead air between the pin and the announcer making it official.

Vince is really just mad that CM Punk wasn't at Wrestlemania. That's why he's unhappy.

I wonder how much respect the fans were supposed to give Undertaker when he wasn't there.

Bet Undertaker retires tonight. If I'm wrong I'll gloat half as much about being right about the streak ending.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>&quot;<a href="https://twitter.com/hoss_buddy">@hoss_buddy</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/HeymanHustle">@HeymanHustle</a> Thank you and Brock for creating a memory I will never forget. <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23EatSleepBreakTheStreak&amp;src=hash">#EatSleepBreakTheStreak</a> <a href="http://t.co/TnBZK3BW0q">pic.twitter.com/TnBZK3BW0q</a>&quot;</p>&mdash; Paul Heyman (@HeymanHustle) <a href="https://twitter.com/HeymanHustle/statuses/455828818381787136">April 14, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Callaway just can't wrestle anymore. Lesnar practically carried him throughout that match and it was embarassing to watch. I still maintain it was the wrong time and wrong person to end the streak as I felt there was not as much build up to this match as Taker's previous wrestlemania bouts.

As I have been rambling for as long as I can remember the best man to break the streak would have been Sting. The build up to that would have been awesome and wrestlemania buys would have gone through the roof and I couldn't pick a better candidate than Sting to have done it. It would have been epic.

But the reality is though I think Sting is in decent shape, Undertaker isn't and if the match against Lesnar was a true reflection then a Sting v Undertaker match would have been worse than Hogan v Warrior II at Halloween Havoc and we'd all be slating the WWE and both men for agreeing to the match. At least this way watching the man get soundly thrashed the fans can appreciate why the man only wrestles once a year and that it's best if he calls it a day.

I'm disappointed the streak has come to an end as I personally feel it has taken away some of that aura e Undertaker had but it doesn't damage his legacy in any shape or form.

As for Sting if he can handle in ring action then there are other potential big matches there. I just think it would now be pointless for him to fight taker at wrestlemania with the streak having been conquered.

Maybe sting if sting had gone to the WWE right as WCW collapsed and had amazing feuds with Triple H, Foley, HBK etc.

Maybe...

Hell in a Cell match, perhaps?

WHERE ARE MY NUDES?

Check your email, Slik.

Geeez.

Damn, I think a casket match would be fitting. Though I'd go no gimmick before I'd put Undertaker back into a cell.

I would not mind, however, if Undertaker came out to retire and got interrupted by a young upstart who wanted to prove himself as in the same league as Brock Lesnar. Someone with something to prove, you know.

Cesaro, Ryback, Wyatt, Reigns all fit the bill there. You want someone to get the rub, a heel perhaps, then have them retire Undertaker at an upcoming PPV. The fans will get there last match to say goodbye and one young superstar gets a nice feather in their hat, maybe a transition from the upper mid-card and the main event scene.

Cesaro, in my opinion, would work best as a tweener who puts the final nail in the coffin of Taker's career, though I could see Wyatt doing a passing of the incredibly dark and mystical torch.

Or...you know, he could just come out and retire.

I may be wrong but I think Sting and Foley wrestled each other over on TNA, not that it was memorable or anything but at least in that sense we got to see that.

I think personally Triple H v Sting could work at Wrestlemania 31 just depends on how match fit Sting is. He still seems in decent shape, better than Undertaker anyway.

I stand by my point about Undertaker v Sting now being pointless given the streak has been defeated. That aura of invincibility has been taken away and it would be difficult to build up their feud away from the premise that could have been as Sting as an enigma coming into to challenge the Undertaker both physically and psychologically and giving the fans real reason to believe that Sting may well be the man to end the streak. All dead in the water now.

I believe with the streak ending, that means WWE themselves have no plans for a Sting v Undertaker feud anytime soon. Besides I don't think Undertaker can manage another match but if he could the best option would be a rematch with Lesnar so that he can get some element of revenge and retire by saying he beat all of his wrestlemania foes which I don't think anyone else can claim to have done I.e. Beaten every wrestlemania opponent at wrestlemania.

Sting v Triple H would work as might Cena v Sting.

Tbh I would just die a happy man seeing Sting appear in the WWE. Strictly speaking he already has appeared on wwe programming the final nitro by which time wwe already owned WCW. But you know what I mean.

Yeah, but the point is "amazing feuds". Nothing Sting did in the ring in TNA could be called "amazing"...at least not anything I've seen.

I'm not sure I follow this part, can you elaborate?

He's suggesting that Brock can't hang full-time.

I am pretty sure that's not the case. I believe Brock is just sort of an asshole who enjoys pissing off the fans.

Seriously though, right now Brock looks like a beast, he is also a horrible person in real life and I'm expecting details of him killing another dude somewhere to start floating eventually.

Brock seems like the sort of guy who would genuinely be depressed at never having had the experience of crushing out a human life.