Raw rating lowest since July 2012
 

Well it was a pretty boring show.

Damn that's like the same amount of viewers for the last CHW ppv

That's 3.333 viewers. Chairman Jose gave a 1/3rd of his attention to scope the competition.

Not surprised. Even with the dirtsheets teasing Vince and the WWE were in panic mode, RAW felt the same as its been for weeks in terms of lack of meaningful stuff.

Too many potential great things have been squandered (ex. Divas Revolution, Ceasro), too many feuds are just dragging on (ex. Rusev-Zig, Wyatts-Shield Bros, Comic Book feud), and too much focus on the same old stuff every week (ex. constant rematches, Authority promos, Rollins promos, Cena promos).

A rumor floating on Neogaf's wrestling thread for a bit was about the WWE holding off on doing a big "reboot" until after Mania since all they care about right now is legit breaking Mania's attendance record and older stars as the key to it.

Divas kill ratings

Bring back GTV and have them tape the divas locker room. I know Jazzy Foot will agree, honk honk!

No doubt Daniel Bryan is to blame for these ratings.

My decision to not view RAW live was to better my Monday nights, not to spite WWE. I know damn well I'm not the targeted demographic anymore and looking back I understand and feel fine. NXT was cool until it became an alternative. I'll eventually appreciate wrestling again down the road, but the lack of extreme violence I yearn for isn't there.


At least we have Macho Man and Attitude Era to relive

Maybe if they turned Natty into a crazy cat lady that would=ratings? Let the catitude era begin

Ratings might be down but how are Cena's merch sales doing? That's what matters.

Man, I can't believe this. I thought RAW was great:

* Cena's US Challenge being back is best for business. It was good to see him build his match with Seth Rollins at Madison Square Garden, which will give him a chance to beat Rollins three times in a row and cement the US Title as the most prestigious in sports entertainment. Rollins can handle it, because he's a bad guy, and the money is in his super-built match with Triple H.

* The New Day were fantastic. I worry that they might be relying on them too much, as they do the same entertaining shtick every week, but Xavier Woods was by far the best choice to face Cena in the singles match, given that he's had the most success as a singles competitor.

* The six-man tag was really good. I do wish Cena and The Dudleyz got the win, since beating the champions would have helped them, but you can't hit all the nails on the head.

* Bringing in an HR consultant to deal with the impending issues between Kane and Seth Rollins is a unique and fresh build-up to their tertiary main event for the World Title at Hell in a Cell.

* Sexual tension sells, so Ambrose and Orton fighting over Reigns' approval will keep the young girls interested. It will be like Memphis in the old days. Ambrose vs. Orton with Reigns as Special Guest Referee will be great -- especially if Reigns refs it shirtless. :naughty:

* Big Show vs. Mark Henry was fun. The only problem I can think of is how they will promote Show vs. Henry the next time they want to run The Biggest vs. The Strongest. I guess Mark Henry can always come back for revenge. Maybe he can beat Cesaro next week? See, Cesaro is a young cat, so the story is in him working his way up the ranks and eventually beating Big Show, then Mark Henry, once Henry beats Big Show.

* Charlotte and Becky being on Miz TV was a great throwback to their segment on the show last time. Paige joining Charlotte and Becky is actually really great storytelling, because we all know girls can't make up their minds. The Bellas beating them made sense too, because Paige is going to turn heel again soon, and she needs to beat Charlotte so that she can get her automatic rematch.

* I liked the segment with Kane giving Seth Rollins the head, because it had Ashley in it. I'm glad they are introducing new female characters to this show.

* The Wyatt Family need wins so they can take the titles off The Dudleyz down the line. They'll beat Orton and Ambrose first though. It's a shame The Prime Time Players had to do the job though. I would have liked to have seen them get more in on Strowman, so they could come out of this match looking stronger.

* Stardust vs. Neville has got great build. I like the way they keep beating each other. King Barrett coming back will lead to a Triple Threat at Hell in a Cell, which works, because they're probably going to do a Fatal 4-Way between Owens, Rusev, Ziggler & Ryback and a multi-woman match, so it creates a theme for the PPV, which I think it desperately needs. I hope Barrett gets his own tag team to fight The Lucha Dragons and The Ascension. Maybe The Crown Princes of Puerto Rico, in Epico y Primo?

* I love the build to Kane vs. Rollins. It might seem silly, but I think having two different Kane allows for them to create two different action figures. Maybe they can even have Kane wrestle on the show twice? Not everything has to be so serious folks, and I think this will really help their World Title match stand above previous serious affairs for the title. Rollins tricking Kane into the Pedigree was clever, and I liked Ashley saying Rollins was the one that was difficult to work with -- I think that will get people to boo him. The Demon coming out of the ambulance was a great spot, and it highlighted how magic Kane is.

* Randy Orton beating Bo Dallas was good. Bo is pretty young, so he should be losing to everybody. His serious re-invention was too professional wrestling, but Bo's got a big future in sports entertainment with his current gimmick. I just wish this did go longer, because these two could have really worked a really good story as to who has the better chinlock.

* I talked about the Fatal 4-Way earlier. It's a shame we didn't get any progression in the Dolph Ziggler vs. Rusev story, but the two fighting over the IC Title with Ryback and Owens is just what that story needed. Maybe Summer Rae could end up siding with Ryback and his giant muscles? :naughty:

* Paul Heyman talks too much, but I appreciate what they were trying to do here. I think Big Show should have knocked him out or ate him, so that Brock Lesnar has a reason to be scared at Madison Square Garden.

* The main event was excellent, and man did that crowd make it. I could watch these two guys go at it every week from now until the end of time. This is the future, folks, and it reminds me of the days when Austin and Rock used to wrestle every week. See, this is good storytelling, because there wasn't a finish to the match, because we are building to the finish LATER. It's called BUILD, people!

Great show, and I'm genuinely enthused about the hot young stars of WWE. Especially Cesaro and Summer Rae.

Noids sarcastic review of Raw sounds better than Raw from what I hear.

Oh, I wasn't being sarcast. CyNick has converted me. I'm reading between the lines now, because I "get it."

I'm thinking maybe Noid should lay down for a bit.

<font color=goldenrod>I have Raw on as background noise most of the time, and when the show ends I still find myself feeling like I'd wasted my time.</font>

After all these years, Cynick was the one who made Noid snap and become a badass machine

That Noid post was absolutely amazing.

<font color=goldenrod>Noid vs. CyNick verbal debate on the next TPWW podcast</font>

Seems like an odd match to build to, but I owe something to CyNick for taking most of the heat in those six-mans at the start of our careers as young boys in Japan.

Always funny to me when people blame creative for everything. They give two guys a chance to carry the ball, and the viewing audience rejects it. This is why Cena continues to have the ball and deserves to.

That said, I think you have to expect some drop off at this time of year. Its like the time before Mania storylines start to heat up, and football is back. Its a tough time for ratings. And yet, I bet RAW was still one of the most watched things on cable on Monday.

The drop-off for football is usually in the 300,000 mark. That's not enough to account for record lows. I think a stale product, a stale format, too long a show, shitty booking and the method of how television is being watched these days all have their part in it.

Here's another way to look at the ratings - RAW was the SECOND MOST watched show on all of cable on Monday

quick - everyone panic!!!

Its amateur journalism to report on TV numbers without understanding the landscape of how people consumer entertainment. But that is par for the course in the industry.

Plus Vince had explosive diarrhea which he spread to kevin Dunn, thus explaining any blips in the programming. This not being reported presents further shoddy journalism.

Expect this to continue with football. Football is life.

comedy attempt?

What you refer to as a comedy attempt, I call fair and balanced pro wrestling reporting.

Ratings will pick up when it is revealed that Summer Rae is addicted to having abortions.

Who will play Stan the Man?

Looking forward to the Rad Russian and El Pollo Loco myself.

What else is even on cable on Monday nights other than MNF?

A bunch of shows. WWE dummies them all, except football. Oh and they've been doing it for more than 10 years. But lets continue to be negative about it.

Love & Hip Hop Atlanta?

Barely know anything about that show except for it beating RAW in ratings almost every week pre-MNF and probably still is with MNF back.

But Cynick says Raw is still DUMMYING every other show. Is HE lying or are YOU lying???

Cynick knows all. Meatball is lying. Vince owns the world.

A decrease in ratings is still a decrease in ratings. I mean, RAW could be #2, but it's not where it once was. This is like the Dixie Carter "Well, Vince Russo didn't write that segment" response to "Fire Russo!" chants in TNA. Somehow you still have to explain to shareholders why your business is declining.

Although reports are that Vince is panicking, the ultimate goal is to probably have everything on the WWE Network as traditional television platforms collapse. I imagine ratings will decrease even more over the next few years, as WWE gets more and more air-time.

What will be hard to explain is why there isn't significant WWE Network subscription growth as ratings decline, if the idea is to move people from one medium to another. The explanation will be "Football" and at least the WWE will get on enough devices in India, Japan and maybe even China to at least perpetuate the idea that it is a growing enterprise.

Creatively, the WWE violates a lot of rules of television writing. The amount of redundant segments and even characters is insane. The lack of continuity in an era that has presented us television such as Sons of Anarchy, Breaking Bad and The Walking Dead doesn't help. People like gritty and things making sense. Cartoony and soft with the presentation of a soap opera might not be the best way to go in 2015 if you want people to take you seriously.

I enjoying videotaping divas and taping naked divas to the wall or bed. I prefer them doing it to me though.

I dont know who this meatball is, but he's not great with math.

Last week RAW had 3.5 million viewers and that hip hop show had 2.5 million. As I said - dummying. Maybe in some universe, the one this meatball lives in, 3.5 is less than 2.4

For the record, Sportscenter was the only show to get close to RAW's viewership numbers. And of course football, which dominated everything.

Thats the thing though, business is NOT declining. RAW ratings might be slightly down, but RAW ratings go up and down all the time. A smart investor would look at the overall prospects of the business. RAW has been a steady driver of viewers for OVER A DECADE. Very few shows on all of TV can lay the same claim. Thats why WWE will continue to be a very profitable entity. As an investor, I would be more concerned about how does WWE elevate the perception of their audience, so that networks like USA can charge for ads, and in turn, WWE can generate more revenue in TV rights fees. Thats not going to be accomplished by pushing Cesaro to the moon.

Why would a ratings decline lead to more network subs. Sorry, not sure I'm following your logic there. I do agree that WWE is poised to see massive international growth in the network. Which is yet another reason why the long term future of the company is very strong.

Hilarious.

Why are The Simpsons on TV after 25 years? Are they gritty - whatever that means? What about Big Bang Theory - is that award winning writing...wait for the canned laughter before you answer.

People watch a variety of forms of entertainment. YOU WATCH and have for decades. I'm pretty sure I could leave for another 10 years, and come back, and you will be complaining about how Apollo Crews needs to step aside to let some indy geek move up the card.

You completely missed the point. I don't know what's happened to you, man, but I hope you work your way through it and come out shining on the other end.

Yeah, but the up's are down from the up's they were. Sometimes the up's are more down than some of their down periods.

If your goal is to lessen the importance of PPV and television as methods of delivery of your product, you're going to have to be able to point to Network subscribers as indicators that your product isn't dying. If you cannot follow that, I don't know if I can help you any more. There have been Forbes articles written on this, man.

Classic "I have no counter" statement

It's not worth retorting to you, man. You can't honestly believe the stuff you're forcing on people. For a guy who claims to like arguing, you commit some of the most egregious logical fallacies I've seen on these boards, and you stopped being fun when you started talking down to people and calling them things like "meatball" and coming off like a huge condescending prick. You haven't done it so much to me, but I've seen it done to others, and it's not cool, man.

Television continues to be a major revenue stream. Continues to increase year over year. I dont see how they are lessening the importance of PPV and television. Care to explain that one?

The point of The Network is to merge with the PPV business (check out a WWE investor meeting if you dont get it), because the company feels PPV is less profitable long term. PPV you create programming where you lose half of the money right off the top to the cable providers. Network they essentially keep all the revenue. And the long term growth opportunities are likely greater with the Network in markets like India and China. Who knows, WWE could be wrong on that, but so far they seem to growing the business year after year.

WWE had 19K at MSG. They have nearly 15K tonight in Boston. They will likely have close to a 100K in Dallas for Mania. They have sold 60K+ tickets for each Mania the last 10 years. I get it, you dont like WWE right now. Cool, dont watch. Come back in 6 months and maybe you will enjoy. No, instead watch every week, read dirt sheets, sit there and nod and then come on here and complain about the show.

I think the guy I called meatball was named meatball.

If that makes me a prick, well a prick I am.

The reality is I take more personal shots on here than anyone. Why? Because people like you are not used to having someone disagree with you about sports entertainment. You think you have the market cornered on what people 'should' think about modern day sports entertainment. I happen to disagree that the sky is falling and every week is garbage. I am happy to debate any point without taking shots at anyone. But go ahead make some comment about how I'm trolling, or whatever road takes you as far away from actually defending your position in an intelligent manner.

His name is Mr. Meatball to you. I don't call you nick, Nick.

No one really insults you, other than perhaps the labels of trolling and being delusional with your points -- which is backed up by a certain amount of evidence. Your third paragraph is a perfect example of how you come off condescending, dude.

but if you did, wouldnt you find it odd if say Heyman got upset about it?

Ive never been delusional or trolly in my life.

Been on holiday for a couple of weeks, but simply had to chime in on how fuck awful this rating is, and how horrifying on paper the rest of the year looks with Cena taking time off. Granted, most people watching this Raw could have figured out it was going to get killed against Packers/Chiefs, but still, the worst is yet to come.

Anybody else surprised they haven't taken the title off Rollins in a panic yet?

It's still 2nd place. Cable ratings are down for everybody except NFL. Not a big deal. Less people watching TV overall in traditional sense.

Just counting cable ratings is pointless when the big hitters on Monday night are all network shows.

Since June 15, 800,000 people have stopped tuning in.

I CAN'T be the ONLY one who's glad Cena will be gone for a while...I may not like him at all, but he really desperately needs the time off for himself. It seems like he's really burnt out right now from no time off in who knows how long.

I'm happy for it. He's been going full time for how long now? Needs a breather and it could be good for him. Absence makes the heart grow fonder.

To his credit, this is far and away the most I've enjoyed him since he became the guy. Matches have been top notch, hasn't been treating his opponents like a joke during promos, and the US title is now as big if not bigger than the world title.

That said, hopefully whoever takes him out assuming it's an injury angle gets a nice, long and strong run going into a Mania rematch.

Being rumored from after Hell in a Cell till maybe January since WWE doesn't have any dates set for him in December.

They could still panic and cut his break short or he gets bored and wants to come back early but he's getting at least a month off.

Cena deserves the time, but I find it ironic it comes at a time when he is the most interesting he has been in years.

Oh, believe me, I thought of that as I was making my earlier post, and I agree. The irony isn't lost on me.

Maybe give him an extra month off and let him be a "surprise" entrant in the '16 Rumble match.

Ooooh....have whoever beats him for the belt dominating the rumble, only for the unadvertised Cena to hit the ring, go after the guy, taking 52nd both out of the ring. Cena feels so strongly, so personally about the US title and has such disdain for the guy who beat him for it that he's willing to give up a shot at his record tying world title to ruin the other guy's chance at challenge him for the United States title at Mania.

I like Cena returning in the Rumble. Seems like a prime spot for it. I don't really want to see him go after the US Title again though. Or if he does, he wins it, then loses it quickly to Dolph Ziggler and moves into a WrestleMania program with The Undertaker.

Taker Cena for the United States heavyweight championship with Cena going over.

Then he loses the title the next night to Samoa Joe on Joe's debut.

It feels like Cena has returned in the Rumble like 26 times.

A

The idea that "you don't enjoy it, you should stop watching" is sort of redundant.

Firstly, it's evident that a lot of people have done just that. There's a bunch of guys on this very forum, who came here as wrestling fans and have since stopped watching.

Secondly, the people here, at least the ones you're talking about, probably don't see WWE as a "TV show" in the same way they might see something like Lost, Sons of Anarchy, or Breaking Bad where their viewership is based on the quality of the writing. It's probably more equally compared to a sports team. My favourite soccer team is Aston Villa, has been since I was about 6. In the time I've been supporting them they've won a couple of trophies and had a good 2-3 year spell where they were competing at the top of the league. In the last 3 years, however, they've been abysmal; narrowly avoiding relegation for three seasons, and it's looking to be a similar situation this year. Do I just give up? Do I forget about something I've loved for 25 years? No. I hope (against all hope) that things will get better; that the performance improve, the style of football is enjoyable, and we start to win.

With a lot of guys here they've watched wrestling as long as I've been a Villa fan, including me. It's almost habit at this point. And we hope (against all hope) that it improves to a point where we/they can enjoy it again.

I wouldn't even know what to watch if it weren't for wrestling.

I haven't watched for 2 weeks don't plan to start watching again anytime soon.

Ratings are low coz the product sucks. Simple as that.

That's why I barely watch at the moment. I stream Raw and get through it in about ten minutes.

this times a fucking million.

3,287,000 viewers, last hour getting close to that 3 million mark

3rd hour has been killing the ratings and viewership for months now. Used to not be the case where instead it was 8pm as the weakest, 10pm as the middle, and 9pm as the strongest.

Vince in panic mode is almost no different than regular Vince.

I'm worried he'll panic a make cena champ again.

Won't really do anything for the long run with ratings and viewers. WWE would get a small spike and then be back to normal within a few weeks. Happened with a lot of Cena reigns and mega pushes that were panic-based.

Even putting Cena in prime spots like the main event a few weeks ago didn't help with ratings.

Yes but does Vince know that?

I can't believe the ratings went down with the show being so riveting on Monday.

Hard to imagine why numbers would go down at this time of year.

The streak....is over

3,357,000 viewers average

so is RAW good now?

72k increase overall but third hour still dragging things down. Getting to the point where 8pm is now their strongest hour unlike a couple months ago.

The actual rating went down though, hilariously. 2.21.

This guy is so legit. His points are right on.

That seems to make sense given the amount of sports that are on right now. Depending on how the games are going, people watch some RAW and then start surfing.

To me it's nothing to be concerned about. Especially when the third hour is still one of the top 5 watched things on cable on Monday.

Well the number should have gone up with all the past stars being advertised for it.

That number is horrific. No way to spin it. Not only are those stars not going to be there again, but the existing bigger draws, Cena and Orton, are going to be off Raw for a couple of months apiece by the look of it, ditto Lesnar, and the NFL is only going to get tougher as competition with Cowboys/Redskins, Bengals/Broncos and Patriots/Bills on the horizon for Monday night games which will all do big numbers.

It really is amazing how different this era is. Numbers like this would have seen Rollins drop that belt so fucking fast in years past.

Do you think it's healthy to go back to an era where the championship changes hands every 4-6 weeks?

Numbers are down in a time period when competition for eyeballs is at its highest. That said, RAW was still watched by more people than anything that isn't football. That's impressive no matter how you try to spin it.

Viewership is likely to continue to decline as more and more people more from consuming entertainment through television to other outlets. It's not luke USA has a ton of other shows pulling those massive numbers like RAW does 52 weeks of the year.

And the number did go up. Maybe the number would have been even lower without those guys. No way to know. The system is very flawed in that a small number of people deciding to not watch RAW has an impact. Even assuming the number is a real reflection of actual viewership, it doesn't tell what the people who were watching RAW are now watching and doesn't tell you if people who don't watch RAW every week we're aware these guys would be on the show.

I don't think he is suggesting that.

I'll let him speak for himself, but he's suggesting a knee jerk reaction to a few ratings during football season.

Doesn't sound like long term planning

they have been decreasing during the summer as well.

He wasn't suggesting anything.

Are you implying CyNick may be coming up with a strawman in order to ignore shit that is damning to his point? Or maybe that he's just bad at very basic comprehension? Or maybe he's just doing obvious things like this to be a troll? Naaaaah.

Doubt the WWE is happy considering how small the bump was from the Legends. Part due to how little they really advertised the legends and part due to people not caring about RAW regardless who was on this week.

Only 8pm was in the Top 5 this week. 3rd hour has been floating in and out of the Top 5 recently while shrinking the padding it had with other shows in the Top 10.

Just 0.2 rating separates 2nd and 3rd hour from being bounced out of the Top 10. WWE got really lucky the MLB playoff game Monday didn't do more damage because it was played in Canada.
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...9-2015/479602/

Is being the 2nd most watched thing on cable on Monday a terrible thing?

Try looking at the viewership. NO chance they fall out of the top ten anytime soon.

It does indeed have an impact, but it's so miniscule that it's a point not really worth even arguing/making. Nielsen measures show ratings not just hour by hour, every 30 mins., every 15 mins., every 10 mins. No. nowadays in the 21st Century they measure minute-by-minute, sometimes second-by-second.This ensures as accurate a ratings databsse as is possible.

Ask someone who knows. My father and I wrre a Nielsen household within the past year-3 years, and we got those facts along with our "viewing journals" for logging what we watched and when/how kong, etc. It is indeed very serious business.

5th

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="588"><tbody><tr style="height: 16.0pt;"><td class="xl65" style="height: 16.0pt;" height="16">MONDAY NIGHT FOOTBALL</td> <td class="xl66">ESPN</td> <td class="xl74">8:15 PM</td> <td class="xl75">13.901</td> <td class="xl67">5.2</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 16.0pt;"> <td class="xl65" style="height: 16.0pt;" height="16">SPORTSCENTER: L</td> <td class="xl66">ESPN</td> <td class="xl74">11:39 PM</td> <td class="xl75">3.542</td> <td class="xl67">1.5</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 16.0pt;"> <td class="xl65" style="height: 16.0pt;" height="16">LOVE & HIP HOP HLLYWD 2</td> <td class="xl66">VH1</td> <td class="xl74">8:00 PM</td> <td class="xl75">2.753</td> <td class="xl67">1.4</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 16.0pt;"> <td class="xl65" style="height: 16.0pt;" height="16">BLACK INK CREW 3</td> <td class="xl66">VH1</td> <td class="xl74">9:00 PM</td> <td class="xl75">2.530</td> <td class="xl67">1.3</td> </tr> <tr style="height: 16.0pt;"> <td class="xl65" style="height: 16.0pt;" height="16">WWE ENTERTAINMENT</td> <td class="xl66">USA</td> <td class="xl74">8:00 PM</td> <td class="xl75">3.600</td> <td class="xl67">1.2</td></tr></tbody></table>

Not suggesting a knee jerk reaction at all, more just a musing about how drastically the business has changed. At a different time, questions would be asked, changes would be suggested, and they'd look in the mirror and ask what was wrong and go all-in on a different approach. Some hit, some missed. Now, a rating this bad is depressing, but the show will continue to be boring and they won't change the pat hand despite the numbers telling them something very clearly.

Not suggesting the world needs title changes every 4 to 6 weeks or anything, but that line about long term planning is the key - even if they do have a long term plan, you can't tell by watching, the product feels directionless. There is very little to be excited about, and the audience is slowly eroding in response.

Brass tacks, there is no way to convince anybody that the worst Raw rating in 18 years in a good thing. That's all.

They're building to something further down the line. Ratings will continue to decline but soon *BAM* they pull a 4.4 out of nowhere. You have to be able to see the finer details to understand it.