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Opinion: The State of WWE And It's Future
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Baron Corbin is fucking aweful.
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Stop that, Baron Corbin is decent.
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More like "Awe filled" :)
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Because he leaves the crowd awe-filled.
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He is the lone wolf, he walks alone
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Baron Corbin also has the ONLY good titan-tron in the WWE today.
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The state of WWE is Connecticut and I'm sure it will be around for a long time.
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A massive list of great talent, but still no true stars. Whether that is by design is open to debate, but you can only get to a certain point without them.
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Yeah. As far as talent from a purely in-ring standpoint I guess you could definitely make the argument that the roster is the best it's ever been. That doesn't matter all that much when none of them are stars though. You could put a lot of the blame on the booking but I don't think that's gonna change any time soon. They're definitely not gonna carry the company to new heights.
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I fux with Baron Corbin. All the rest of this is speculation.
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A lot of potential but unless they find a better creative philosophy overall they'll have trouble rising above the current plateau.
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Smackdown and NXT exhibit great creative philosophies, so it's not like it's outside of the realm of possibility.
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Most definitely the best roster they've ever had from an in ring perspective. A lot of guys who have star potential but every time someone takes a step forward WWE finds a way to push them 2 steps back. Honestly Seth being hurt has been the best thing for his career I think. Same with Finn, guy will be huge when he returns as they had already made him a big deal coming in and he didn't have to deal with any silly booking or had to make Roman look strong, although that's probably coming.
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How can guys in their early forties and late thirties be the future of the company? They need to be THE PRESENT. Unless you're referring to next year as "THE FUTURE" this is pretty dumb.
John Cena 39 years Bill Goldberg 50 years Undertaker 51 years Brock Lesnar 39 years Samoa Joe 37 years AJ Styles 39 Years Finn Balor 35 years |
Pull the fucking trigger, basically. Time is running out.
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AJ Styles is 39?
Christ, he's looking good. |
AJ Styles wrestled in WCW.
Seems weird to think about. |
On paper, the roster they have has a tons of potential and arguably the best ever in terms of in-rings skills but Vince and Creative have been the biggest obstacles for turning that into a pool of big and mega stars.
Part of it is due to how horrible Creative has been since the end of the Attitude Era outside of brief periods and part is due to Vince only caring about recreating the Cena era in regards to all the real focus being put towards just 1 person. |
16 years ago
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Owens, Rollins, Wyatt, Styles, Rusev, Strauman, Balor, Miz, Ambrose, Nakamura, Reigns, Samoa Joe, Corbin, Harper, Aries, Roode, Cesaro, Sheamus, Ziggler, Zayn, Big Cass, Jinder, Enzo, etc. Of course Cena, Orton, Brock, HHH, Taker, Jericho, and Big Show coming and going, with the occasional Rock, Austin, Flair, Hogan, HBK drop-ins for a big feel atmosphere. Potential on-screen characters like Shane, Steph, Bryan, Foley, a returning Angle, Hardys, Shelton Benjamin (can't believe I didn't see names like Shelton, Rusev, or Harper on here. I know I'm forgetting people, and maybe just missed their names, but Rusev is top tier, Harper is entertaining, and Shelton Benjamin returning .. If Angle comes in and Benjamin debuts, they should bring back Haas, and have Angle manage a group of Benjamin, Haas, and American Alpha. Would feel a bit of a sting because there's no more Swagger to add though :-/ .. Anyways ...) Then the tag teams with Gallows/Anderson, New Day, American Alpha, Usos, Rhyno/Slater, and the other nonsense teams like Vaudevillians, Ascension, Hype Bros, etc. The Cruiserweights with Neville, Aries (who I mentioned, but I really like Aries. Guys like him, Roode, and Nakamura are guys I always wanted to see in the WWE), and all of 205, and of course the women with Charlotte, Sasha, Nia, Bayley, Mickie, Becky, Bliss, Nikki, Natty, Carmella, etc., along with Divas/Valets like Lana, Maryse, etc. The talent and characters are there in every division, a lot of fresh faces (even the announce teams and interviewers). It's the best ingredients the WWE has ever had, with plenty of PPVs to go with Raw, SD!Live, NXT, and 205 to spread everyone around, it's just the same shit since the decline - Can the writer's use these ingredients and make the right recipe.
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Look at that block of text
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I'll help ya out little buddy
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Thats readable!
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Exactly. The brand isn't just valuable because it's "got a message" and some serviceable performers are expressing it. You need substance and star power for it to have value. You take out all the stars and over time, the brand is worthless. Right now it's still thriving on the ability it had to make stars in the past.
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I don't think it's ideal, but one of the benefits of being the only show in town. |
Why did you use Cena and Orton as examples there? Because they're stars.
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both are in their twilight years |
but they'd be the next nostalgia acts that show up to headline manias. And I'd never say they were stars of anywhere near the magnitude of The Rock but they'd still fill the gap.
Someone else will fill that void, of "Star" that isn't quite on the Rock's level. |
I'd be happy if you guys were right though. It'd maybe push them a bit harder to actually make a relevant, cohesive product I could consistently watch.
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My point is though that the "now" guys cant weild that torch. Kevin Steen, Tyler Black, AJ Styles, etc
These guys are not going to show up in 20 years and mean anything. It would be like Psycho Sid Showing up in 2012 to face Cena at wrestle mania. it wouldnt mean anything. These guys arent stars. they're good acts...for now...for the mid card. |
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These things kind of have a way of working themselves out. It may not be an Owens or a Rollins, but some kind of barnstormer you least expect as what happened with Rock and Austin. They caught their strides seemingly out of nowhere and never looked back.
So yeah you may be right with the list of guys it may not work out, but this is a company with infinite resources and although sometimes they are fucking retarded, have a keen eye for talent. |
If they really had a keen eye for talent, Johnny Curtis would be in the midst of breaking Bruno's title reign record right now, Goddammit.
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they fill the gap "less" but it becomes less important they are stars of THAT magnitude as it becomes more and more about the brand.
I'm trying to think of a good metaphor for this but the words escape me as it remains on the tip of my tongue. The best I can say is it's like they're grandfathering in the branding with diminishing star power of nostalgia acts. But then also, what the fuck do I know? They'll probably march Taker out there when he's 85-years-old to wrestle Seth Rollins when he's 45 due to lack of star power. |
It's like right now The brand WWE scores a 20 in draw power, the nostalgia act is a 60.
Then with Cena maybe it's nostalgia act 50 vs brand appeal 30 then with Orton 40-30 Okay this is awful but it's the best I can do :'( |
Rollins is the next mega star.
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clearly you've never seen him cut a promo :p
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Reigns is probably the next "mega star". They're just gonna push the issue in the same manner they did with Cena when they crowd turned on him. Unfortunately Reigns has a fraction of the talent, charisma and mainstream appeal as Cena so... not good.
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Rollins is the Daniel Bryan of wrestling. :shifty:
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I don't get not turning Reigns heel. I mean heel in the classic sense not how he already is heel.
So I guess turn him face lol |
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It'd be considerably better tv. He'd fit the role more.
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Debatable. Smarks dont buy near as much merch as marks.
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(if you did the product would completely geared to you)
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that doesn't mean better t.v.
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It just means more money
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Which is the point of the whole thing
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You could argue, Roman getting over with the smarks a la new day or D Bry or Punk could boost his merch sales past just selling to markass bitches.
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Since smarks will by your merch if you're a gangster ass mofo
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Now in the long run it might work a la turning Rocky Miavia; but Rocky was panned by everyone smarks and marks alike.
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(And just like with Cena and Reigns we see now just how wrong they were then)
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a heel turn I think would long term bring Roman to the next level which is kind of what I'm getting at.
With Cena it would never have worked because he was well past that developmental phase. Reigns is still finding himself as a performer. |
I've spoken to a couple local indie wrestlers in my city and they all said Roman Reigns is ridiculously popular with kids. Nate Mattson (The Amazing N8) was doing a signing and asked all the kids in line who was their favourite wrestler and they pretty much all said Roman Reigns and it's like that everywhere he goes.
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I never doubted that for a second. Kids like WHO YOU TELL THEM TO LIKE. I really dug Duke the Dumpster Drose when I was 8. I liked Virgil when I was 6.
The BIG STAR is the one that everyone likes. |
I'm not you usual smark dick who thinks Dean Ambrose or Seth Rollins would be a better draw than Reigns. There's TONS of potential in Reigns, but IMO they are not maximizing that potential. He's a very good worker IMO just boring and vanilla
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Which is okay short term business wise. But not the best as far as quality and long term drawing potential specifically for Roman.
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A short time as a "heel" might win over his detractors allowing for a unified front long term. I cant refute that. It might not and it might just be lost money. Who's to say. And you still have the new wrinkle to the model that allows having a guy like Roman, the guy backed by the office, that allows undercard guys to get over with the smarks as well. How much of the undercard are getting over because smarks a rebelling against the compant line? It's Reigns who facilitates that. The crowd being the baby and the office being the heel is a win win in my mind. You get the merch out of Reigns with the kids and you get the merch out of the smarks and the some of the marks with the IWC darlings. It's a good model...in theory at least. It's keeping them afloat until someone good comes along. |
I'm part of a local Wrestling Group on facebook. We go on wrestling road trips (indie and WWE events), attend all the local shows etc... now I know this is a small sample size (there's like 75 of us in the group of 500 who participate in these events) and the smarks are spending their money on indie wrestlers merch, not the WWE. And then there's myself who own a Ravishing Rick Rude shirt a Gorilla Monsoon shirt and an NWO shirt lol
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Lol oh big time
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The problem with Cena for instance is he was such a goody goody and had such a hard time that the kids who liked him didn't carry over into being teenagers/young adults. |
I am definitely in the minority here when I say I don't know if the in ring talent is as deep as it has ever been. A lot of the guys on the roster can only seem to follow a scripted match. Here and there you get glimpses of briliance but it is pretty rare. Gone are the days when two guys can get in the ring and just go. HBK is the best ever because he could wrestle anyone, any style and put on a good compelling match; regardless of how much time he has. Y2J is the closest we have now to this, AJ is up there also. What thise guys have in common is they perfected their craft over years in different companies and aren't "wwe trained."
I do like how they have brought in guys who are not wwe styled. I think KO is actually pretty damn good, he has a different style and knows how to sell. A big problem is a lot of the guys who can go aren't very big nor intimidating. When you as a fan feel like you can take someone they have a problem, and right now a lot of their guys look like skinny fat neck beards. A guy like Seth Rollins and Ambrose don't intimidate anybody and even 45 year old HBK looks bigger and more believable. Lesnar and Goldberg are over because you as a fan would not want to fight either of them. I honestly think the wwe is in rough shape talentwise because they aren't deep with guys who can just go tear the house down. Unless you are Randy Savage and Ricky Steamboat you can't go out and script a masterpiece match and I feel like thats what they are trying to do nowaydays. |
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Biggest example in recent times is the Cruisers. Had a lot more freedom to do things with the CWC which made it very entertaining while the division itself has struggled because of how heavy handed Vince and Creative have been with it. |
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In ring work is at a peak for athleticism, but probably at an all time low in terms of psychology and story telling.
Matches that live long in the memory are the ones that told great stories and were unique for their situation. Everything feels the same nowadays, not because the guys are not fantastic athletes, but because they wrestle the same match and their idea of switching it up is to add another high spot. Reigns is a bit cardboard, but he is obviously a great athlete. What is not helping Reigns is that he has wrestled Rusev, then Owens/Jericho combos constantly over the last 6 months with little to no change in the story. He is hardly being given gold to work with. |
They should have never let THE RYBACK go
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Back in the day everybody had a gimmick. Yes some gimmicks were complete jokes but at least they were different. Everybody is the same now. A guy like Cesaro who naturally got over, has talent, can sell, and can WRESTLE is left floundering because they can't figure anything out for him. Putting him with Shamus I think has helped Shamus more than anybody. So unfortunately now Cesaro is just another guy. I don't know, maybe he's a bad example for my point.
Gimmicks don't even need to be crazy. Look at the British Bulldog. His gimmick was he was a big strong Brit and he was so over. Owen Hart, younger brother of Bret, was awesome. You need in ring believable talent with some sort of story. Seth Rollins' story of getting injured and coming back is nothing. Roman Reigns' story is what? There's just no creativity and yes, a lot of that falls on the writers, but I think the talent has to bring something to the table too which most guys obviously aren't doing. |
I think Cena has become really good at the ring psych side of things. I think Aries is amazing at it. I think AJ can go with just about anyone like HBK. I'm not sold that Y2J can. His in ring work has become predictable and slow.
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Ambrose's draw was always his promo work, which even he admits has been neutered by the terrible scripts he's given since he was called up. He seems unmotivated in his work, his ring attire looks like he makes no effort. Maybe having that creativity taken away from him has made him lazy. Maybe he's just an average worker once you strip away his indy persona.
His feud with Regal in FCW was pretty good, probably the best thing he's done as a singles guy under the WWE banner. |
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A lot of these guys go so slow. But then that match between Neville and Gallagher at Fastlane was one of the best of the year. I dont know if they are instructed when to go and when not to or what. But it's very obvious when they dont go. |
If Vince and the writing team all died in a plane crash...
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I wouldn't worry about the talent roster since it seems they are willing to sign just about everyone from everywhere these days.
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Why is this the best roster ever? Do you mean the middle of the pack? We use to have Angle, Benoit, and prime Brock all in the main event at the same time. Not to mention Rey, Benoit, he'll even Melenko, HHH, and a shit load of others at the same time.
This does not mean the people today do not have amazing skills but I don't understand why everyone thinks the current roster blows everyone away. |
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Ruin leaving Eddie off his list breaks my heart.
Angle, benoit, eddie, hbk, lesnar, jericho, mysterio, edge, rhino, rvd, the hardys, the dudleys, wgtt, hell the undertaker, orton, cena Thats 2003-05ish |
Could have sworn I put Eddie on since I was thinking of the Smackdown 6 when I thought of the post. But ya, you got the point :)
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If the talent now was so good why can't anyone get a 1-2-3 after a finishing move? #itsstillrealtome.
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