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REHASHING AN OLD ARGUMENT: Who would you rather have on your roster right now?
John Morrison or The Miz?
I'm sure we all remember how we used to feel about this, but how do we feel now? I'm kinda on the fence, but leaning Miz. |
The Miz. He was destined to fail from the beginning but he persisted and became the WWE Champion, main-evented Wrestlemania and pinned John Cena. Over the years, he has managed to keep himself relevant and become one of the most prominent Intercontinental Champions of this decade.
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The Miz. That man is pro. He gets today's wrestling completely.
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STILL LOVE MIZ.
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The Miz.
Always The Miz. |
I actually always liked The Miz and I still do, but back when The In Crowd was a team (one of my favorite teams ever), I thought for sure Morrison would be the Michaels to Miz's Jannetty.
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Thought so too until after the split.
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I do enjoy Morrison in the ring quite a bit, still. The Johnny Mundo Lucha Underground run was tight as fuck.
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Miz is one of the best heels in the business today. Morrison can do some cool athletic stuff.
Not even a contest, tbh. |
Miz.
Morrison in Lucha Underground is pretty similar to the Miz in terms of being the guy everyone hates regardless who is his opponent but lacking in great mic skills. |
It's a hard one. My instinct says The Miz. A great promo, solid worker, could easily be top heel in any wrestler company. Seems like a no brainer.
But Morrison is insanely skilled as an athlete...and he is marketable. He is a good looking guy and looks like a rock star. He has also developed a lot more personality since leaving, judging by his film roles and him branching out a bit. For a new company, you could easily be talking about a top heel and a top face if you had both. Forced to choose, I would pick Miz because wrestling is a talking business and he sold me on him and Cena wrestling with their wives at Mania. |
Miz is probably the best true heel the company has had in a decade
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His matches are an absolute bore but there's a lot of mileage in his story telling on the mic. Woulda made a great manager
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Miz.
Good heel, great promo, fantastic media/brand ambassador, room to extend career in a managerial/commentator role, and you get the added bonus of Mayrse. |
Miz easily.
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Hardcore Parkour
The Miz now, then, always. |
The Miz is the total package
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The Miz bores me. Mundo / Morrison for sure.
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Morrison. Always really liked him/really hated Miz.
Really I just want him for the cool slow-mo shot with his hair blowing in the wind. |
Question for the Miz voters...did you always feel that way?
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This is tricky. The argument is still basically the same as it was way back when. Morrison is far, far, far better in the ring, has a better look, and has the better overall potential. The Miz is a better talker and gets being a heel, but has a ceiling. I'd take both. As a tag team or a mid-card title program they would both be welcome. I want to go Morrison, because I think him at maximum potential is worth a whole bunch more, but The Miz can be used to springboard a lot of people.
Fuck it, I guess it's Miz. But I'd take Morrison over a lot of the current guys WWE is pushing. |
Would you take Morrison over Strowman? Not to derail, just thinking out loud.
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Morrison looks like a star. He can wrestle a lot better. You can probably get more out of optimum use of him than you can Strowman. I dunno. I'd probably try and milk Strowman right now for what I could and then hope that Morrison can carry things on a certain level when that dies off. |
People forget that Strowman has really only been wrestling for 2 years, which is insane. Give him another couple of years.
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What's the deal with Strowman wearing a goat head? Did they even explain that? Or was this just "Look at me, I'm weeeeeird!"?
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http://data1.ibtimes.co.in/en/full/6...rowman-wwe.jpg
Wow, he's actually pretty ripped. Thought this was all fat. |
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... #MeltzerSheep |
Oh, well. Kinda dumb.
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Was kinda cool/creepy looking when a bunch of kids dressed in black gowns surrounded the ring wearing sheep masks when he was feuding with Cena though.
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I wonder where all those kids are now in kayfabe.
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Bray's bedroom?
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It's a social commentary on the Catholic Church.
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Also, I believe he's not that far behind Morrison in in ring ability. He can't do the cool parkour shit, but he's gotten very good at telling a story in his matches, which is more important to me than high spots. |
Those Ziggler matches were really good.
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I would actually be willing to say that Miz is the best heel in the business today, with the exception of Minoru Suzuki.
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I'm just wondering if any of the people saying Morrison can't cut a promo have actually seen his work in the last couple years. He's probably the best promo in Lucha Underground and has been for at least the whole 3rd season.
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If Roman Reigns were positioned to go against babyfaces he would be.
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The Miz is the best mid-card heel in the business today. I still can't take him seriously. It feels like anyone should be able to beat him. I dunno, I really like him at the IC Title level, but I feel that if he were pushed even just a bit harder, he wouldn't be doing that perfect tightrope walk.
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I don't remember, The Miz was in a tag team with Morrison? I thought it was some other dude.
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Here is my thread from 2009: http://www.tpwwforums.com/showthread.php?t=91272
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With all their movie production stuff we have no idea how many takes he got. |
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For those who want to see it, and I will put this in spoiler tags, I used a framework that is used on another forum to rate wrestlers. I know not everybody will want to see the working, but sometimes it helps to put things out on paper and really see how things stack up. It can also help you work out what you most respond emotionally to or have an aversion to, and identify your biases.
A wrestlers' qualities are split up into Look/Presence, Charisma, Ring Skills and Mic Skills. It feels simplistic, but I suppose drawing power can go into charisma. I've given each an average, but I've also recorded their biggest attributes in relation to their average perceived skill, which I think helps capture what you think about when you imagine that wrestler. John Morrison: SPOILER: show The Miz: SPOILER: show Comparison: SPOILER: show So, my final assessment is that I think that if you break it down, while they aren't that far apart from each other in the grand annals of history, Morrison is probably still objectively "better" overall. If you put emphasis on ring skills and look, you're probably going to prefer Morrison (and that's an odd combo to have, if you really think about it), whereas Miz is going to hook those who prefer consistently better promos. If they were one wrestler, they'd probably be pretty fucking perfect, and it's actually a hard comparison to make, because you want to have good in-ring workers, people who look like stars, and people who can talk. I'd probably like to have both a Morrison and a Miz on my roster, and they don't really occupy the same roster space. A more fair comparison would probably be pitting Morrison against a Seth Rollins and Miz against a modern day Chris Jericho or even Kevin Owens. What Miz brings is really unique though. Which is odd, because he's objectively pretty average in some areas that you kind of don't want a guy to be average in, but those help him stand out. I do think that those things can be amplified to generate real heat in a modern era, where people associate ring skills with "deserving" great things which makes it harder to stay heel. He might look pretty non-threatening, but then he's got Maryse -- who deserves a lot of credit for how effective Miz is. She enhances so much that is lacking from The Miz's act, which turns those detriments into weird sorts of strengths. I can totally understand why people are saying Miz. |
And, for those who are interested, here is my break-down of Braun:
SPOILER: show So when it comes to Morrison vs. Strowman, I do think that Morrison is still incrementally better than Strowman, and it's noticeable especially in the bell-to-bell, but long-term vision will probably favor Strowman. |
Morrison but tbh both normally have me change the channel. Miz annoys me and Morrison screams jobber to me.
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I THINK MIZ WOULD DO WELL THERE, ACTUALLY. |
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Lol. Noid, Braun is so fucking over, is everything you want as a big man, and has charisma. So yea, he's just average. Okay
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350 pounds of rock solid muscle and looks like he could literally tear limbs from sockets. People believe he can go toe-to-toe with Brock (suspension of disbelief of course). If you're going to be mr. hyper critical guy at least be reasonable.
You can dislike the rest of his game, but a 7.5 in the look department for a guy who one of the most over guys in the company based on his look is just kind of retarded. |
Nailz was such a big star because of his look, right? Nathan Jones did so well because of his look. Billy Gunn looked like such a star. Brian Lee could be made up to look a lot like Undertaker. That would be automatically be successful right? Braun Strowman looks like a giant Eugene, and his name is literally meant to invoke the idea of "big dumb dude whose last name sounds like strongman." I'm sure he would have been packaged differently back in the day, but he might have also ended up in DOA doing nothing.
And, as I've stated, I think the reason people flock to him is because of how he's been booked. Look at how no one gave a shit about him when he first showed up. He didn't suddenly grow a whole bunch. |
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And yeah, I'd say he's just on the upper end of average when you're rating the best wrestlers of all-time. Especially when he's only like 3 years into his career. Would you put him up there with Andre as the best big man ever? |
I don't really have a problem with his name. "Strowman" sounds a little "NXT name generator"-like but Braun's a good hoss name.
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And yeah, people shit on him constantly before he started destroying Roman. His recent booking has a fuckton to do with how over he is. More so than charisma. He's good. I think it's been too long since people have seen a well-booked hoss that they're overrating him a little though.
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The dude's real name has got enough of a cool vibe to it: Adam Scherr. Adam is widely known as the alleged first man, so there are inclinations of him being some sort of prototype and having an Old Testamenty wrath about him. Frankenstein's monster was also routinely compared to Adam. There's something Promethean about it that you could have exploited early on. |
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Braun was over before Roman too in a heel way. Even with his Sami Zayn feud. |
Braun started to get over after the brand split and killing jobbers and saying FEED ME THREE and all that
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I don't see how Rusev being built perfectly for like a year, which did earn him goodwill, is evidence that good booking didn't help Braun? I wouldn't say that Rusev is the same type of performer as Braun though. Rusev was always presented as more of a "tank." A lot more of a hybrid and agile sort of guy with a "legit" background. Strowman was always "big."
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But I'll humour your silly response.
Nailz was pushed because of his look. Sadly, he couldn't work a lick and he also choked Vince McMahon to within an inch of his life. Nathan Jones was a generic big man. Looked like a bouncer, very bland. Billy Gunn was 6'5" 260 pounds in a sea of 6'5" 250 pounders. So your examples are irrelevant and retarded. Anyways, PARDON MY HYPERBOLE but his look has A LOT to do with a) his reactions and b) how he's been booked. You think anyone is buying it if Samoa Joe or Seth Rollins are beating the fuck out of Roman and flipping him over in an ambulance? HE LOOKS CREDIBLE. It's very simple. Call him retarded Eugene all you like to make yourself feel better I guess, but he's about as impressive a damn specimen I've seen in a long time. I can't help if you're unable to decipher what I'm trying to say because you're too far up your own ass. But your response had very little to do with what I was saying Mr. Straw-man. |
Hm. I honestly thought Strowman was way taller. Apparently he's 6'8, same as Hogan.
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They always inflate height. Showbiz, pal.
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Though Hogan is likely around 6'5"
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My only beef is with Noid deriding his look. |
Not talking about billed height but real height. Hogan is supposedly 6'8.
Look at us arguing like two soccer moms about which actresses have fake tits. |
Hey MAY have been 6'8" but I doubt it. Nowadays he's definitely NOT 6'8" because of his back injuries.
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Miz is such a great talker that he legitimised himself over time and he slowly found a look which worked for him. I actually think that Maryse was missing piece of the puzzle. A valet can always help a heel look more important and I think having his hot wife around and rubbing it in people's faces only helps. Also have immense respect for him after I heard what he went through in the beginning. Being thrown out of dressing room and all that. He fought hard to get where he is and it's hard now in an internet age not to know about that and respect it. |
Also, Braun Strowman is awesome. It's a pity he will be forever locked in battles with Roman Reigns, who is not awesome at all
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dick sucking is scientifically proven to cause loss of height.
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Yeah, the girlfriend I'd been in a relationship for over 4 years was like 2'8 when we broke up.
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The rest of your post isn't really worth responding to, but I'll do my best. That he's been booked well is exactly my point. Of course he got the push because he was big. Has anyone said otherwise? Way to back up my fucking point. I just don't think that makes him a 10/10 in terms of look. I gave him 7.5, which is hardly deriding. Learn math. |
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I think we all agree that Rusev was booked well up until he hit the main event. I clarified that I meant people haven't seen a MAIN EVENT monster heel booked well in a long time which takes Rusev out of the discussion. I don't think he's relevant to the "Is Braun a product of good booking?" debate.
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And his look is a strong part of why he's credible and why he's getting booked which I've said already but you're too busy needing to confirm your bias to notice. |
Remember when everybody hated Mark Henry, but then he was actually booked strong and went on a tear with his Hall of Pain thing and suddenly everybody loved him?
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Braun should mellow out and become a lighthearted grappling machine.
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* In both circumstances, good booking made juice. You can't say "Well, Braun produced juice while Rusev didn't." When they were juiced it worked. * Now I want juice. While I agree with Fan that it has been a while since you saw someone like that pushed -- because Braun and Rusev are different -- I'd disagree that it's been that long since we saw good booking work, which emphasizes his point. You talk about Rusev like his undefeated push was bad. I wasn't a fan of Rusev at the time, but I wouldn't say that it was either bad nor well received. What is your point? |
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You're arguing that a B+ isn't a good enough grade for a wrestler you like. Jesus. lol
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This is a pretty silly argument. And I've seen some silly arguments. I feuded with norman smiley AND CyNick.
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IMO it's similar to that "PERFECT SCORE, 5/7"
I just think it's ludicrous. He clearly has the best look on the roster. He's a fucking monster. I just think it's consistent with Noid's trademark snobbiness. |
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lol speaks to Canada's mediocrity, 75% is a b plus here LOL
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That's 3 points from a D here
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