Are you sick of Stephanie McMahon taking the credit for the women's revolution?
 

Once an organic phenomena fueled by passionate fans and girls who worked hard to prove themselves to be on an equal footing with their male counterparts. We see right through your PR fallacy Stephanie. And we are not going to have anymore of your agenda. Who is with me?

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Omlette you finish, DuFromage.

I take it you're a fan of Dexter's Laboratory?

I am not familiar with your level of intelligence so I will go ahead and approve of your deduction skills.

LOL OK, This is going to be a fun little mini rollercoaster ride!

Honestly her role in the company runs parallel with the quality drop for me as a viewer. Around 03ish. Who is responasible for the womens division is tough to say. She for certian has played a role no doubt.

I will say that the womens division is my favorite thing going for the company right now and i honestly feel Banks is prob the 3rd best worker in the country. Shes one dick short of being a top act.

I think when Triple H started having daughters there was a shift as to the role of women in WWE. One of the Levesque daughters will headline a WrestleMania.

There has been a cultural shift in how women's wrestling is perceived too. All Japan in 1995 was probably not on Vince's radar, but I bet you there are lots of people in the company who were massive fans of that. Then you've got what TNA did in 2007 with the Knockouts, and it was drawing more than Kurt Angle and Sting. Then you do have the rise of Ronda Rousey as a draw. It's no longer correct to say girls can't draw in the fight game or whatever.

Stephanie McMahon takes a bump once a year to offset all this "heat" she thinks she cultivates. Someone will get theirs over her at Mania.

I read the other day that the voice actor who played Dexter is dead. That's sad.

Nothing about the women's revolution has been organic.

"Here are the women. Now, let's all dance."

I'm just sick of Stephanie McMahon.

There is no intelligence to be found there...

...and I'm with you. It's pretty ridiculous. Do you think this could all be AJ Lee's tweet's fault?

I really loved that Nitro Girl with the short hair, btw.

You're not the only one, bud :drool:

The Nitro Girls could be trained to wrestle about half as good as many of the women they've got and fool people into thinking they're a wave of feminism.

I look forward to them being inducted into the Hall of Fame as pioneers.

AJ Lee's tweet 100% is soley responsible

Which tweet is that? The one where she called out Steph for not paying women properly or whatever it was?

Yes

She also has that book coming out, doesn't she? Lady Balls or whatever it is. I don't think Steph really "gets" equality. But there's probably some sort of publicity motivation underlying everything, because she'll want that to be center-stage.

She tweeted "what have YOU done for women @steph" or something

"Hey @StephyMac, suck my butt! Girl power!" -AJ Lee

Christ, I was going to start posting a bunch of Spice from Nitro Girls but just a bunch of shitty resolution pics.

It's a fair point. I mean, you can argue that it's a performance-based industry, therefore pay is graded on terms of your value to the content, and the women just aren't there yet. But it's a bit fickle when you jump around saying "we treat women equally, we treat women equally -- he's them drawing for a major PPV." Do they get paid as much as the men? "Oh, no -- they don't really draw, the boys do that, it's just a figurative positioning as the stars."

I don't think people really care about WWE enough to really focus on it, but there are some nasty little opinion pieces ready to be written about the WWE's idea of gender equality, and how they are graded in terms of fiscal value despite being presented as big a stars -- and that presentation becomes perception, which is fair enough for reality to people trying to make a case. In many ways, it could be a slippery-slope to be presenting all your women as major stars, because at some point it's only reasonable they start asking for major star money, even if they're not really the major stars.

Kimberly and the red head that looked like ginger spice were the only hot ones

women don't deserve equal pay. Theyre a side show at best. When theyre merch sales make up for half the top 10 we can talk.

And this is coming from someome who tunes in almost exclusively for their womens division

That's right. Haha, good on her.

I actually agree and think that's the most effective position for them on the card, but that's not how they're presented. Someone is going to get the idea to ask for at least what Nikki Bella is making, and that's going to push up and up as they do jam their merchandise and significance down people's throats. "The women" are getting as hard a push by that giant promotional machine as anyone,

I'm sorry but this post is just absurd.

So you think they should get equal pay as the men even if they don't bring in equal revenue?

That's what I call equality.

I don't really see how, unless you are taking "women don't deserve equal pay." I think what Destor's saying is that Brock Lesnar and John Cena are much more crucial to WWE's merchandise, attendance, television ratings and Network subscriptions than Bayley is. I don't think that's an absurd point at all. My point is just that this isn't the narrative they're pushing. They're legit trying to present the Women's Championships as World Championships, letting them headline the Royal Rumble, etc. It wouldn't surprise me if they do the same thing at Elimination Chamber or if whatever Ronda Rousey does at Mania goes on higher than whatever AJ Styles and Nakamura are doing. Given what they left in Japan, I doubt that Styles or Nakamura is getting paid less than $400,000 a year.

But this is common in entertainment. No one at the top wants to take a cut, but it's too exhaustive to pay women as much as men in that sort of work.

This isnt a $10/hr job. Youre paid on your value. If you think the top woman has the same value as the top male id question your math skills

Without Stephanie to give them a platform there is no credible women's wrestling in WWE.

Furthermore you smark-ass cocksuckers completely overemphasize how much Stephanie "takes credit" for it. If Vince or Triple H was the one to make the announcements on-screen you neckbearded white-knights would accuse them of mansplaining or some retarded shit. You just want to bitch.

And women will deserve equal pay to the top male stars when they start generating equal revenue. Right now it's no comparison.

Also, fuck you, Noid.

I think a snowflake got their feelings hurt somehow.

:y:

It's more like a commission in entertainment or sports. You perform well, you get paid more. If you want a better packet, sell more.

Stop using buzzwords you don't understand.

And have been since 2001.

Hey Theo, why so angry?

I suggest taking a deep breath, and filling your gaping vagina with a cucumber.

I remember really liking Spice Girl Fyre but that pic of her makes her face look kinda fugly.

Need to take a trip to Google images to see if she's as hot as I remember.

After cleanup I can confirm that yes, yes she was.

I find myself to be quite entertained by the variety of responses in this discussion. People don't seem to have a strong opinion one way or the other. Except for Noid who seems to dwell in the world of conspiracy theories and fantasy. I got that impression after reading his previous entires on this board.

Baron Corbin makes twice as much as Ronda Rousey now.

You could argue that it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy; the stronger the push the better the merch sales, the more range you get, the more merch sales.

Difficult to say the “women” haven’t been pushed though.

The bigger contention is probably along the lines of where top female pay stacks against lower end of the men’s; do The Ascension draw better than Becky/Bayley/Sasha/Charlotte?

Hogwash. It is 2018 and we as a community of wrestling fans are above this.

But if you can prove that women don't draw and sell merch like men, than why would you pay them the same?

Morality and progressiveness has nothing to do with Destor's argument, it just comes down to brass tax.

However, out of all athletic endeavours, you could argue women can eventually make the same as men, since it's a scripted sport largely based on charisma. Whereas barriers face women in other sports because frankly, the quality of play can't physically/biologically ever match mens.

If what the lads are saying about the women being ratings draws is true, then we could start seeing the pay gap decrease in the industry.

I'm damn near 40 and I've had enough of smug smark-ass cocksuckers flexing their man-boners online acting like they're making these breathtaking intellectual points when all they're doing is parroting Dave "Emperor Smarkington I" Meltzer's sanctimonious talking points.

Also I prefer eggplants, they're more loving and generally smoother.

If I remember reading, there was a huge complaint recently about WWE paying their female talent well below their actual value. Got alleged by a former WWE and well known celebrity makeup artist who managed to find out some of the pay scales in the WWE.

She did make the mistake of comparing Nikki Bella to Brock in terms of top star power and pay but if you take out both and Cena for comparisons, the highest paid female performer makes very low midcard level of money at best ($200-$300k). Then you have a bunch still on their NXT contracts ($25k range) which gets eaten a lot because of traveling stuff.

Theo needs a safe space from all the white knights who don't like bad television. "Listen to them whinge," he whinges, with no appreciation for irony.

Get off my lawn! *Theo shakes fist at the sky* Damn millennials and their synonymous points. It's almost like independent sources can lead two individuals to the same position.

Generally agree, but I think the idea that women physically can't do it is antiquated. Been reading a lot of myths about women's sports. It can make a fun afternoon. Turns out women aren't actually physically shit, athletically, and it's a bit of thing that men have tried to make their domain just because grrr, men.

Don't get me wrong though, I don't think the current crop of female talent is better than the men. The best workers they have, in my opinion, are Brock, AJ, Joe, Cena and Orton, but all of them have been doing it since the 20th century. But I'd also probably contend that the cream of the All Japan women in the 90's were better in-ring than most of the men on the roster are today. As you said, it's charisma-based, but the athletic part is something that the women can get down fine to have matches with ever women. You can get plenty of ***** matches and drawing fights out of them. That's just not happening right now.

Don't even really want to argue, just want to throw out the men > women at sports is kind of being challenged these days. It's quite possibly an idea we have that shapes how we perceive the intersection of sports and gender, as opposed to a true dynamic that we're responding to. But whatever, I've only done light reading. Largely I agree with the point of star-power in this business largely being charisma-fueled, and that being the most important aspect. And that's why Ronda got more over than basically anyone in UFC, until Conor came along.

I'm not saying that Nikki Bella is anywhere close to as valuable as Brock in terms of star power, ring skill, charisma or even fucking mic skills, but the comparison of the top paid male star and the top paid female star, on the surface, is a fine one. If you're a company telling people that your men are equal to women, then the idea that your two biggest stars are getting paid so extremely far apart (30 times) then it's not fair to say that they are really equal.

Where Destor and I disagreed earlier is over two different things. He's saying that women aren't equally as valuable to the men right now. I agree with that. What I'm saying is that if you present them as valuable and tell them that they are valuable, they are going to want to be treated as valuable at some point.

It's like when Ultimate Warrior asked Vince for the same amount of money as Hogan is making, because he was pushed to that level, on a much more disparate scale. But that's why I think treating the women are a special attraction is actually a better idea than jamming this idea that Asuka and Shinsuke Nakamura won equal matches down people's throats, because talent and the media will eventually get behind that idea, because that's the kayfabe narrative WWE is pushing, and it's bad PR for them to come out and say "Guys, we don't really value Charlotte as much as Randy Orton. Don't be ridiculous."

Women aren't shit athletically. Just, if you put the best women against the best men at sports, the best men will win.

The US women's soccer team got beaten by a grade 10 high school men's team for Christ's sake. http://usatodayhss.com/2017/the-fc-d...ional-team-5-2

Now... I like WMMA, and I watch it, and Ronda Rousey proved women can be HUGE draws. But are all the people clamouring for a decreased pay gap going to buy tickets and merch for when these women are given the same drawing opportunities as male athletes. Or, are the people complaining not particularly huge sports fans, and would continue not watching sports once this happens?

Because I would be willing to bet that the bulk of the demo that watches sports doesn't give a fuck about women's sports (Re: Gertner), and no amount of pushing and posturing an agenda is going to change that.

Plus... I love how being good at sports and making lots of money means EQUALITY. It all depends what you value in society. If you value the almighty dollar and being perceived as great at sports, then I guess this some how represents some kind of oppression.

Well they have the option of not working with the WWE and pursuing another, far more fruitful career. Or even better, negotiating a superior contract.

This is a good point.

Seriously, I've tried watching the women's world cup and I can't get through it. After watching stuff like the Champions League or SerieA it's such a slog.

No, we are being realistic.

Women's sports are fucking horrendous.

How anyone can watch soccer at all is beyond me.

my brother from another mother.

Also, while the women's division is far better than its ever been, Asuka is the only one who can consistently have great matches. Thats largely due to experience and where she learned her craft. All the other women have had their faif share of duds, despite occasionally putting on great bouts as well. Charlotte is probably the only one who comes close, though I think Ember will prove herself to be consistently good as well.

Have to say I have been very disappointed with Becky thus far. Becky vs Sasha in NXT is one of, if not my favorite match from this whole movement, but I have yet to see a performance even half as good from her since. She was putting in work in that match, so it wasn't just sasha carrying. I don't know if her style just doesn't mesh well with the main roster "formula", but she hasn't impressed me much.

That's largely been why I wasn't pissing myself about Asuka coming up. Who was she going to wrestle? I'll say that I think Natalya is really good. Can't really disagree with the Becky comments, honestly. Not sure if it's just the formula she's working week-to-week, but she hasn't really clicked in the ring with anyone since. I did like the initial Triple Threat for the Women's Title at WrestleMania though.

Well the thing is that while some of the better women haven't been 100% consistent with their performances, several of them are good enough where its almost a lock that asuka will get a really great match out of them.

We saw it on raw with asuka vs sasha and that was only 10 minutes. Imagine what they could do with a ppv match.

And for some reason I think a match with asuka is where we could see the old becky return, so I'm hoping asuka challenges charlotte and moves to smackdown.

Personally I would have asuka beat charlotte at mania and hold the belt all the way til the next mania where she faces raw champion rhonda rousey. Thats the money match, as far as the womens division is concerned.

Also great potential for a rhonda vs bayzler fued.

Bayzler could debut on raw attacking rhonda. Bitter at the fact that rhonda was hotshotted to stardom because of her celebrity despite the fact that bayzler had been working hard for several years now on the independants.

Honestly I'm rooting super hard for rhonda. You could tell she couldnt keep the smile off her face at the rumble and that made me happy. That combined with the fact they have had to force her to leave the performance center everyday makes me believe she really could become a great performer.

Asuka going after Charlotte makes enough sense for me. I think there's potential in Ronda vs. Charlotte too. It really should be a "main event" women's division of Asuka, Ronda, Charlotte, Nattie and maybe Sasha. Everyone else feels "mid-card."

Think her name was Spice

She was banging Rey Mysterio in WCW

That would be ideal. I can see WWE blowing through that match the month after WrestleMania though.

For some reason, that just seems really weird to me.

I was looking at the Nitro Girls on Wikipedia, and Shawn Michaels' son just turned 18.

Probably got great genetics. Wonder if he will get into wrestling after college or whatever.

Unlike sports in general wrestling (and prize fighting) are the only places athletics could see equal pay. You can reasonably figure out who is drawing internally with the data they have.

So if you get over it should be easy to get paid.

A WNBA athlete could never hope for the same chance.

With that said womens wrestling just isnt there yet.

Don't women get paid the same amount for major tennis events? I read that somewhere, but it doesn't change the point of your argument.

Probably because Serena Williams is a draw and highly marketable.

Thats a fair play, womens tennis is a draw

Probably the mono-e-mono nature of the sport. I don't watch much tennis, but I find women's tennis as entertaining as mens.

Marketing or quality of play?

Nia has proven herself this past year. Don't think its a stretch to include her on the list. Shes gotten better and better, and what inexperience she still has, she can make up for with the spectacle of her tossing around the other girls like ragdolls.

I'll have to retain reserved judgment on that.

I never get behind people having "im fat" as an excuse to play the power house.

Doesnt work for me

I used to find that she hadn't grown into her own shtick. She'd do this weird eye thing, and I never knew what it was supposed to be. Why is she not like most girls?

I dunno, lately she's been showing off some really neat power spots too, so she's not just "rawr I like big macs" without any substance.

Eh, she was called up too early and I don't care enough to challenge my initial perception of her. Good for her, but I find it hard-pressed to care even if true.

Pretty much this

I just don't like how she is a full-blown heel in the first hour of shows, and a complete PR-face for another hour, or vice-versa... she takes you out of the show when she does things like that.

People were talking about merch sales on page 2.

I believe AJ Lee was in the top 10 for merch sales before she left the company. Am I wrong?

:yes:

Is this about not making what she was worth? Wouldn't it depend on her current contract? Because AJ got popular out of the blue and before that would have had about 0 value, and wouldn't have been making much.

If she was still popular by the time she'd be renewing, she'd have probably made a pretty penny. Plus she probably made some good cash on her royalties.

yeah she was def gonna make good money had she not became the wife of the most bitter man in the world

*2nd most according to a recent TPWW poll

Haha.

Found this interesting since Steph publicly credits Triple H for being responsible for the Women's Revolution. Gave them the same foundation and training as male wrestlers were getting in NXT and the end result was the growth of the Women's division in recent years.

Came from a recent interview she had with the Times of India: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/62658301.cms

If thats true, then yeah, he does deserve some of the credit.