Roman Reigns is a Randy Orton. Let's fix that
 

Randy Orton is fine. Ok. However, he is also a complete failure in terms of time and investment trying to get him to that next level. Same as Roman.

I think the biggest problem with Orton was just that he's a boring person in real life. There's only so much you can dress up boring.

I find Roman to be significantly more interesting, but the character he's playing just hasn't taken any real risks and is kind of lame.

My solution:

*Choose bad guy (I'd use Bray) to injure Roman, then torture him off-air for weeks.

*Reintroduce Roman as silent monster w/shaved head, partial mask.

*After a few weeks allow him to give limited non-scripted interviews, then give him mic freedom, and see where it goes.

It's completely generic, but if he's worth a shit he'd do something creative and exciting with it.

Now you go.

You call someone who poops in a purse boring?

Bray's not a heel. That's all I've got here.

Disagree, Orton was a success early in his career when the pushed him towards the main event. I'll agree he's grown boring in recent years but don't see the Roman comparison. Randy actually had some depth to him once he split Evolution unlike Reigns who kept everything from the Shield.

Roman reached the same ceiling as Orton, and Orton was only hot when he was killing legends. They wanted him to be the next big thing and he wasn't.

Orton was hot when he took the title off Benoit and turned on Evolution. Triple H made sure to take care of that though. Even still, he's been perpetually over for years. He was never the face of the company but he was never put in a position to be with Cena holding down the fort. Reigns has gotten the torch passed to him to a ridiculous level and it hasn't worked. Orton was always the "other guy" behind Cena and he worked much better in that role. The two aren't comparable.

TPDub always had this inexplicable hard on for Orton. He managed to be interesting exactly twice in his career, and one of them involved Kurt Angle shooting on him.

I mean, if Dolph Ziggler did half the shut Orton did, he would be headlining PWG shows. If Orton had Ziggler's family tree, he would have been out of the business long ago. In any other time, he would have been run out of the business for his attitude. He is one of the biggest names in WWE that hasn't drawn shit.

Orton has always bored me as a character even when he was involved in interesting feuds.

I only cared about Roman as a member of the Shield.

He needs something drastic, but not ridiculous, to get him over. Change is needed.

I would put him in a Falls Count Anywhere Match with Braun and have them up on the stage slugging it out when pyro just goes off suddenly, EMTs rush out and they treat the whole thing as legit. Have him come back disfigured and wearing a partial mask (I'm all about partial masks) and see what happens. I have a feeling he'd be a pretty good "crazy" dude and his face getting burnt up would be perfect for that.

Honestly any stupid gimmick would probably make him more interesting than the one he has now.

Orton's not a boring person. He poops in bags, smokes cigarettes and runs away from war. Fascinating fellow.

He's also a damn good worker. God, the way he just gets people off their seat by looking at them when he's on a roll -- magnificent. The company does not know what to do with him right now, but I am looking forward to Hardy vs. Orton.

I think Reigns should turn heel on Seth Rollins after Money in the Bank. Have Reigns take the IC belt at SummerSlam and hold it until WrestleMania where he defends it against Braun Strowman or a babyface Nakamura. There's beautiful symbolism in Reigns defending against the guy people kept cheering for when he still gave a fuck about their feelings. But Nakamura would probably be a much more exciting match. By then people will be all over his dick and ready to cheer him again, likely. The Usos didn't last long as heels.

Let's not forget vandalizing hotel rooms.

LOL WTF

Hot.

Lol what, Randy gets some of the best pops. Randy has had multiple red hot runs over his career. Sure the Randy/Bray stuff crapped out and it took a good 6 months to start rebuilding Randy, but again Randy is over. Roman has never reached that. Sure Roman has been over here and there, like when he beat down HHH, Vinny Mac, League of Nations, and won the WWE Title over a 2 day span, but by the next week he was back to same old boring Roman.

Difference is Randy is given the chance to turn, Roman needs to be a monster heel for a while, then he will be over for good once he flips back.

Roman is the Kristi Yamaguchi of WWE

Roman Reigns is Rocky Maivia circa 1997

Fans were hot as fuck for Orton organically as Legacy IMPLODED. Reigns has never been universally over since getting shoved into the main event scene. Not in the way Orton has been over multiple times.

Roman Reigns is a wank pheasant.

Championships don't matter anymore. Orton is boring and his in-ring work has consistently been boring with a few great moments here and there.

Nobody wanted to see Batista VS Orton as a main event of any ppv for a reason.

Reigns has more potential to waste.

Yeah, "RKO Outta Nowhere" got old pretty fast.

Let's do "Spear Outta Nowhere" now.

That was not about Orton, we didn't want that main event without Daniel Bryan.

How about Triple H has killed Orton momentum at his highest point like 5 different times.

I don't care if he's the Kristi Yamaguchi of Kristi Yamaguchi.

2004, 2008, 2009 and I'm sure I'm missing more.

Wrong, I'd rather seen Batista/Orton at WM 30 than Daniel Bryan.

Ugh.

Fan is the only one lol

Yeah that's what I said when Bryan beat HHH. I'd rather seen HHH in that match.

Personal taste aside Fan, business-wise you're better off booking the guy who's actually over.

You'd think but it hasn't stopped them with Reigns.

Of course, but that's not what this conversation is about. It was better business to book Bryan, whether you prefer him or not.

I'm not so sure about that. Show would have done just as well without Bryan in the main event I think.

ALWAYS BOOK HOGAN

And Main event would have been dead as shit and in the long run they knew both Bautista and Orton were dead in the water as well--same with HHH. Don't let your personal bias get in the way of good booking.

My only beef with the 3-way main event was the injury angle. Shoulda just been a hot match.

He needs to get on a bus and do a nationwide campaign of another title shot

They should also make sure to always talk about him when he isn't around.

Roman Reigns needs to lose another match with Lesnar with the stipulation that the loser has to come out wearing a sombrero and holding maracas for a year.

Why not just ride a lawnmower to the ring?

Was it good booking though? Just because it's what the majority of fans wanted doesn't mean it was good. Bryan's booking was up and down the whole year leading to WM30 which played a big part on the fan revolt but wasn't intentional. Good booking would have had him in the main event to begin with and not had his push detailed after winning the WWE WHC and joining the Wyatt Family. It was good reactionary booking to a problem they created.

Semantics aside, you agree with me.

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I would count 2004 twice. He was setup to be the next great heel, but that's Trips spot so let's have Orton booted out of Evolution. That set him up to be the next great face, but instead Triple H got the belt off him in like 3 weeks. Orton was back to a heel 6 months later with no momentum. It took him 3 years to get a world title again after that.

I would also count his 2013/2014 run thanks to the Authority angle crap. Yeah Randy got to be champ, but that he was like the 6h or 7th person in terms of importance in that whole story arc behind Daniel Bryan, The Authority, Batista, the Shield build to turning face, then again to Rollins after he turned. Dude never even got his title rematch, instead Kane got it and Randy had to reform Evolution to put the Shield over.

Furthermore, speaking of Reigns, Randy had to put him over at Summerslam that year, all based on the HHH Authority stuff.

I am also not even counting how on Fire Orton was in 2007, but instead of him just winning the vacant title, let's have him lose to Triple H first, then have Triple H have a grueling match with Umaga later that night, and ONLY then is Randy good enough to defeat a beat up by a Samoan Bulldozer Triple H.

This is 100% correct, Punk quit which already had the fans miffed, so they doubled down on Bryan. Babyface Batista winning the Rumble was such a bad idea even Batista knew it. Legit only Vince the writers thought that would work.

It is ok to change the booking course is somebody is over instead of for 4 straight years of thinking "I know better, Reigns will get over".

Forgot about Punk leaving that also played into all that.

I've got no quibbles with this. Triple H has always found it necessary to spray his stink over Orton, and it's weird that the two seem to be "friends."

On Bryan: It's nuts if you don't go with him at Mania XXX. Absolutely nuts. Of course they fucked up the booking leading into it, but it's absolutely asinine if Bryan didn't end up in that match, just like it was baffling when he didn't just win the Royal Rumble. Dale's on the money here. I also cannot believe that Fan is an Eli Drake fan, but can't see the value in Daniel Bryan. Even in infinite realities I wouldn't consider that an inevitability.

As much as I'm with Simple Fan on the idea that Bryan was overpushed, once they teased it as much as they did, they definitely had to go with him winning at Mania. You just can't tease him winning the title that much without the payoff.

That being said, they shouldn't have teased it so much in the first place. Problem would have been solved before it ever began. No one's gonna "hold the show hostage" about Bryan only being involved in a hot mid-upper midcard/IC Title program unless you fuck around and give the audience the idea of him winning the world title repeatedly. Hell, Batista probably would have been accepted if they didn't spend months building a Daniel Bryan underdog story.

I see about the same value in him the WWE did, as a B+ player. That's why I don't think his first push made any sense. Like #1-wwf-fan said, if he doesn't get that underdog push and then have it ripped out from under him you don't have a massive YES movement like they did.

Lol, Bryan is amazing. One of the best in-ring guys they've ever had and he has charm and charisma, which you can't teach (clearly). You don't get those initial reactions post-Mania 28, but those were two years before the title win. His work in Team Hell No and those six-man tags with The Shield are what really endeared him to people.

Never clicked with me in the ring, not even in ROH. You act as if I think the guy is garbage but I dont, just think he was over pushed. Add to the fact that him beating 3 future Hall of Fame heaveyweights in one night just wasn't believable for me.

Those things endeared him to people. That doesn't directly relate to people demanding he be a world champion though. Team Hell No, matches against The Shield and being the IC Title workhorse could have been his ceiling and it's not like people would have rioted been rioting... Unless WWE does what they did and puts him in the main event picture, teases him as champion and just uses him to fuck around with the fans like they did. THAT'S what led to the whole "Yes movement" thing.

They did demand him to be a World Champion though: SummerSlam 2013.

I'm not particularly interested in discussing just how Bryan was. People know. If you honestly believe that having Triple H beat Bryan at WrestleMania XXX was a good idea, then I can't help any further.

Are you talking about the Raw where Cena chose his challenger? Yeah. It was pretty clearly built to have him be the one Cena chose. The fans knew it. That was the beginning of WWE teasing it and fucking with the fans by not giving them a real payoff. You don't do that with a guy people are behind and then not pay it off. It's just asking for them to turn on whoever else you try to put in that spot unless that guy is also one of their favorites. Like I said, if they never tease it, people never really care if it doesn't happen. Do you really think people would be pissed if he was putting on mat classics and having good feuds over the IC Title if WWE never teased anything more than that?

No one is asking for your help. Im not saying having him beat Triple H was a bad idea either, they forced themselves into it and had to go that way. Doesnt make it bilevable. Pushing him towards the top of the card in the first place was the bad idea. It worked out yeah but as seen he's not a guy you can put the company on his back.

I will say this. While Triple H going over Bryan to open Mania would have been a monumentally dumb decision booking-wise... Since it's not like that show saved WWE or was the beginning of a turn around, I wish it would have happened in a "watch the world burn" way. That show would have been WAY more interesting just to see what the crowd would have done. Like... "Fuck it. This company is the drizzling shits anyway. At least be shitty in a remarkable/hilarious way." Same reason I'd take Russo over today's writers.

At some point, yeah, I do. The path wouldn't have been exactly the same, but Bryan is so damn good, and when he got people into his stuff, he was one of the few genuinely over people on the roster.

I'm sorry to deflect from the point, but I just can't take it seriously from a guy with Eli Drake in his avatar. I just can't. I'm not trying to be a dick with that, and I don't think you've ever said that Eli Drake should be a World Champion, but it's just ludicrous to me. I'm sorry.

Bryan is one of the most believable wrestlers on the roster. He's lacking a bit of size, but his technical skill is pretty much unparalleled. His energy is good and he works in a way that is appropriated for bigger opponents to make the struggle against them feel authentic. It's why he'd make a great Brock Lesnar opponent whereas Finn Balor would not.

Eli Drake is more believable as Impact World Champion than Bryan is as WWE Champion. Bryan would be ok as Impact World Champion as well but I just don't think he should be at the top in WWE. Neither should Eli Drake for that matter if/when he comes to WWE, as I've said before Drake is like Impact's Miz. Safe worker and give him a mic and you have a solid segment. Honestly can't really say anything about Bryan in the ring because I've never been interested to care so I night have to go back and watch some of his stuff but his size is the biggest contributer to my opinion I'd say. I can't take the guy serious in the ring with a real heavyweight, same thing with Balor.

Aaaaaand we're done.

Bye

Can someone point me to a good Randy Orton promo?

YouTube told me this is his best promo

Thanks.

Lol anytime

Oh god that is awful.

Name a feud with Orton where he was more interesting than his opponent.

To be fair, the impact title doesn't actually mean anything.

For sure him vs Kofi, Orton with Legacy was more interesting. That came to mind in about 3 seconds.

Kofi was way more interesting than Orton. Not even close.

Orton was way more interesting than HHH in the build to their WM match and in their original feud. He was way more interesting than Hogan in the build to their match. He was more interesting than Bray Wyatt in the build to their WrestleMania match (and this is coming from someone who fucking loves Bray Wyatt). He was more interesting than Benoit in the build to their title match....

Thank you for the legit answers.

Only difference I see Romans dying to be the face of the company where Orton isn't.

Flair has come out a few times and said WWE wanted him to be so. He doesn't like having to be "on" all the time when going through Airports fans wanting to get photos taken with him

Orton was at his best when he was "psychotic" and looked like Lord Voldemort.

I'm one of the few who actually prefers Orton as a face ass kicker playing to the crowd. It's just that when he's played that role lately his feuds haven't had substance for the most part.

I think I can buy that. It seems like Roman wants it more.

In all honesty, he isn't Orton.

He's Lex Luger.

One of my favorite WCW moments was Lex beating Hollywood Hogan.

I don't think it'd be possible for Roman to deliver anything close.

Not to say that it isn't a valid defendable analogy, just one I can't get behind yet.

But I wasn't talking about Flexy Lexy in WCW...

For me Roman destroying League of Nations and Triple H at whatever PVP that was, that was his moment for me. Not trying to be cool or cocky, he was pure savage rage and it was awesome. Too bad WWE couldn't follow that up.

Yeah, that's true.

Randy Orton has always been more interesting than Triple H whenever they have worked. I was into him more than Taker heading into Mania 21 too. And the Legacy Triple Threat does stand out.

I agree with #1-wwf-fan, in that Orton is a great babyface. I can't really remember him doing much in terms of feuds as one though. He's usually just there. His feud with Christian was great, and he was the babyface in that. I had issues with Christian not getting much in, but it was good stuff.

Right now, I think a heel Orton would be tasty. I want to see him against the internet fans. I think that would be glorious. Give him The Revival as lackeys, Adam Cole as an understudy, KENTA as a hired gun and nephew Jasper as a star-struck sponge. I would enjoy the hell out of that stable, anyway.

Actually, an Evolution-like stable of Orton, Cole, Jason Jordan and maybe someone like Dan Matha or Tino Sabbatelli would actually be pretty cool too. Or just have Orton adopt The Undisputed Era as his boys. I could buy them more with Orton.

The only problem with stables nowadays is that WWE doesn't know how to do them without the rest of the members just jobbing in order to make the leader's next opponent look good. A stable of Orton, Jason Jordan and The Revival some muscle behind them where they were all actually booked strong in their respective divisions though would be mint.

Oh yeah, it would suck in reality, because that's just sadly reality.

I'm going to check that out.

I think as a face feuding with Nexus and Miz then Nexus again with CM Punk was Ortons best run as a face.

Orton vs. Punk was my favorite match at WrestleMania 27.

Mine too, although him vs Rollins at Mania 31 is my favorite Orton Wrestlemania match. That freaking curb stomp counter to an RKO is probably the greatest sudden move ever.

That was pretty good too. I remember liking that much, but I don't remember much of the actual match. That finish sticks out though. I kind of wish that Seth had won though. Then he'd be 6-0 at WrestleMania right now.

Awful fantasy booking old me

How do you feel about Orton and Roman now?

I can't say, I've been away from wrestling for over 3 years.

I imagine that Roman is still cringe-inducing on the mic, but I have no clue how they push him these days.

Worth checking his stuff out. They’re finally doing with Roman what they should have done years ago. He’s pretty much the best thing in all of wrestling.

He's fucking incredible from the stuff I've seen (which admittingly isn't much)

I can see why you’d think that. It might be worth giving yourself a shock and checking him out.

This is actually an older thread. My reason for bumping was because of how cringe my fantasy booking here was.

I imagine Roman has gotten better by sheer will. Did they put Heyman with him?

Yep. Heyman is with him, the Usos are his lackeys, and they finally made him a full blown heel.

That's pretty great booking.