Did Bret Hart do anything important other than The Montreal Screwjob?
 

I liked Bret when I was a kid and he briefly had a run as my favorite back then...but looking back outside of the Montreal Screwjob it seems like Bret didn't really do anything important in wrestling history. I mean he was on top of WWF in a really floppy era w/ King Mabel, Bob Backlund and Diesel but that's about it...I guess his feud w/ Austin helped Steve but seems like that would have happened without Bret too tbh.


Is Bret the most overrated and non-influential 'lead superstar' in wrestling history?

Had arguably the best match in Wrestlemania History with Steve Austin. It may have happened for Steve anyways, but it's important regardless.

idk...HBK/Angle and HBK/Taker were really good too

Bret whines a lot now so maybe he should be erased from wrestling history to 'teach him a lesson'...idk...maybe/maybe not

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I voted yeah bc yeah

Meltzer sheep,,,,,

He was an opening match guy that got breaks because of his dad

I think it pretty much had to happen then or not at all, i don't believe that there was anyone else working at the time who was willing to do what Hart did for Austin.

Oh, in that case I guess Bret is important!

Disregard and Carry On #HartFoundation #NatalyaHart

Bret was the guy for a good 3 years. Like him or not, he was always a little boring to me personally, but he did well at the top.

I agree if you are making a list of top guys, I wouldn't put him anywhere near the top, but he is still on the list, which does count for something.

Well, let's see. Proved that smaller, non-muscular wrestlers could be "The Guy", drew well for WWE internationally and gave countless classic matches.

Bret made Stone Cold and HBK. Bret lead from Hogan to the attitude era, someone had to and he did it. He made everyone he wrestled look like a million bucks in the ring, so yeah, I'd say he was important.

The interesting thing about that is he was way bigger than a lot of guys today. It's sad how far they have gone from big huge guys you wouldn't want to mess with, to small skinny short guys who couldn't beat up anyone.

Austin's rise as a mega star either gets delayed by years or possibly never happens without the Bret match at Mania 13. Only other real option was HBK but unless you were in the Kliq or in their good graces, he was not reliable to give the star making rub needed due to his personal and backstage issues.

Could also argue Bret locked up the Canadian market for the WWF and kept it away from WCW due to his star status. WCW didn't start to push hard into Canada until after they got Bret.

Bret Hart could tell amazing stories in the ring. He's still the benchmark when it comes to great technical wrestlers and in-ring psychologists.

Has arguably the greatest match in WWE history to his name against Steve Austin. Was extremely important in helping get him kinged up.

Significant star and well-known internationally.

Also, he appeared on The Simpsons once.

Never cared for Bret. The Austin match is about the only thing of his I've actually seeked out to watch and that was more because of Austin. Didn't watch WWF as a kid so I didn't see alot of him until he moved to WCW and that run was awful.

He headlined one of the biggest gated shows in WWF History at the time: Summerslam '92.

He was able to blade twice in WWF's no blood era and get away with it. He made it look realistic enough to make you think it was hard-way, and the "accident" both times coincidentally made the match better.

Also, there's a reason why the hold is called the "Sharpshooter" and not the "Scorpion Deathlock," though Sting did the move first.

Always found him really boring when I was lil... seemed like a generic boring face that just did things like give his sunglasses to lil kids... lame................

Goldberg sucks. Bret was a top guy for a long time.

Excuse me, Goldberg defeated Brock Lesnar.
Bret Hart cannot say that!!

Goldberg ended Bret's career. Goldberg is better.

In fact,

Not sure if u r aware of this @STD, but Brock Lesnar has been on top of the WWE for almost 5 years now! That is way longer than Bret Hart was on top and he has been CHAMPION almost the whole time.


Kids of the future will grow up and base their wrestling careers around Brock Lesnar, so Brock Lesnar is probably more important than Bret Clark!!

Also Steve Austin QUIT WWE because he was mad about losing to Brock Lesnar on Monday Night RAW...so in a way did Austin even contribute to anything long-term??!?

BROCK LESNAR is probably the most influential wrestler of all-time!!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/nz0TpJAJ4-0/hqdefault.jpg

Don't forget...the biggest casualty of the ScrewJob, right here.

Had Shawn choked down his fucking pride, Owen would still be alive, teaching his ring experience to the current crop of talent.

> = (

Bret was one of my favourites as a kid , he wrestled some great matches and is still regarded as on earth of the best so yes he was important.

Plus to all those kids he gave sunglasses too he's super important.

Lol @ the thought that the only important thing Bret did was the screwjob. Ridiculous

Lol stop it

Not the smart ones

Bret was also in the WM 2 Battle Royal and got eliminated by WWE HOFr ANDRE THE GYANT!

Bret Hart was also in the main event at Rasslemania 9 where he passed the torch to Yokozuna who in turn passed the torch to a rassler called Hulk Hogan. Bret made Hulk by being so selfless.

Whose Bret Clark brother?

- HH

Bret Hart was such a huge mega star that after he made Hogan a star, Hulk was so intimidated by the pink and black attack that he left the WWF. So really, if you think about it. If there was no Hitman there would be no NWO. Bret is a rasslin god

Early 90s Bret Hart was just a good counter to the awesomeness of IC title HBK.

I used to think Bret Hart was boring, but I have since smartened up. So fucking good how he puts a match together. I literally daydream about Bret Hart matches sometimes now.

His Summer Slam match against Perfect was my first favorite match. Love it to this day

Best match of all time. Seen it thousands of times over the years. Never gets boring.

1st ppv I ever watched and I remember this match really well. Whole ppv was really good.

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I don't understand why you needed to ask this question, it's obvious that Bret did more important things than Montreal. And to be specific what Bret did was refuse to lose the belt, that's it. What Vince and Shawn did is another story.

Bret was a workhorse during the 80's, a dependable good match in a land of immobile jacked up giants. He was apart of one of the best tag team's of all time and then grew into a huge fan favorite baby face. He had a classic match against Piper and sold Yokozuna as a real threat. He came a great WWF Champion and lead baby face. He had classic matches with HBK, Diesel, Undertaker, Sean Waltman... Then he turned America against him and for the first time we had a mega heel in America and a mega face in Canada. Then he had classics with Austin...

If you are a real wrestling fan and especially a fan for over 20 years I don't understand how you could even pose this question.

Agree that this match is one of the greatest but the ref rings for the bell wayyyy too soon

Perfect's back was fucked--was likely just to protect him.

Bret could definitely have good matches when he had a guy to carry him

Yeah I think Perfect was already injured by that point. Great match nonetheless. Crowd was hot as fuck for Bret.

He was very injured. Hadn't wrestled for a while because of his back. That was his last match til Survivor Series 92.

We did get Jinder Mahal and over in real life Bryan though small he may be ran down a guy who robbed his house.

He carried Bulldog to a decent match and Bulldog was coked up out of his mind.
I don't know if I should include the Hart Foundation since it's not him by himself and I don't know that they really did anything significant although it did showcase how Bret was way more effective and interesting as a heel.

Bret v. Austin
Bret v. HBK
Bret v. Owen
Bret v. Piper
Bret v. Bulldog

...I could do this forever. Fuck you, Slik.

Love Bret Hart vs. Mr. Perfect. One of my favorite examples of what makes Bret a great storyteller. The way he "gets his back" on Perfect is awesome. I don't mind the bell being rung so quickly. Pacing-wise, I can understand the drama of holding out for a second, and it does feel jarring, but I think that is sort of the point? Like, it's there as emphasis. Bret has got this motherfucker embarrassingly beat. Not heat-breaking forever beat, just "checkmate, bitch" beat. Might be accident lol, but it makes the win seem so decisive.

I don't know that Bret Hart vs Roddy Piper was important but it was fun to watch.

Well, is wrestling itself important? Can we just throw away the whole industry and would everything be fine? Bret vs. Piper is a match worth talking about. I get what you're saying in that it wasn't the headlining match or anything, but I think it comes up in enough conversations when talking about certain tags -- Bret Hart, Roddy Piper, WrestleMania, IC Title, great matches, great finishes, etc.

Think it was the allegedly the first time Piper had been pinned. Love that match too. Particularly Piper and his mortal struggle while holding I think the ring bell.

Maybe in the WWF. I'm sure he had taken pins elsewhere. He must have, surely?

Piper's a blind-spot with me. I don't know why, I've just never really gone back and looked over the guy's career. I'm probably doing myself a major disservice. I was first introduced to him when he returned to SmackDown in 2003 or whenever it was. Yeah. I have this idea of this renegade promo who drew money against Hogan and was super-important to getting WrestleMania started, but the details and specifics of his career in the Pacific North-West, Georgia, etc. escapes me.

The Intercontinental title is very fucking important, you know.

Bret Hart went heel. Had that whole anti-American angle going with the new Hart Foundation.

Something I thought I would never see from a guy like him. But I remember watching some documentary that Vince pitched the idea to him and Bret bought it.

I look back at that and use it as a baseline for all the other faces/babyfaces who never went the heel direction. If he can do it, everyone else can too. *coughJohnCenacough*

The Hart Foundation faction was amazing.

The Hart Foundation are one of those tag teams you think of when you think of the greatest tag teams of all-time.

Bret did lots of memorable things in wrestling, but the last few years of moaning and complaing by him have tarnishedchis lagacy. He seems very bitter. He partly to blame why he did poorly after montreal.

The thing with Bret's turn is the timing of it all. Instead of shoving him down people's throats, they used the crowd reactions to slowly but surely turn him, and let it go full blown after his match with Austin.

Bret buying into it and running with it made it that much better.

yeah everytime i watch that match, it bugs the shit out of me. But Bret leaned back pretty legit, right? so i guess yeah the ref needed to call it quick

The austin turn but other than that no

the Montreal screw job led to the Mr McMahon character, which led to the biggest boom in wrestling since Hogan. Bret made Mr McMahon, so we can just stop there :)

#brethartfanboy

Especially for WWE.

Yeah, you kind of go through the teams of that era and list Demolition, The Bulldogs, Hart Foundation and The Brain Busters, before moving up to The Steiners, the dark years, and then into Edge & Christian/Hardyz/Dudleyz territory.

Rockers > Hart Foundation

Rockers were cool, but they never held the belts, and wrestling was real then.

Not even close. Hart Foundation far trumps the Rockers.

Good point. Bret leaving was the best thing that ever happened to them.

So was Shawn leaving after WM 14.

Shawn did the job for Austin. Way more professional than Bret.

Shawn also came back and drew money while Bret whined on the internet for 2 decades.

So many good stories and matches which were actually intriguing. Owen feud, Hart foundation, both versions, HBK battles and intrigues, Austin, Perfect, Bulldog, Lawler. He put so much time and effort into everything he did.

Did he take wrestling too seriously? Yeah, but he wouldn't have been half the performer if he hadn't. For me personally, he has more memorable moments than anyone on the current roster, just because he made everything seem so important and he was so creative. Every feud had matches that told specific stories, he was so great.

Well, you also think Bret was better than Shawn which is just insane.

Man, WWE was loaded w/ teams back then. Tag wrestling is definitely cyclical for WWE.

They're actually both my 1 and 1A of the time. Shawn was the better athlete, Bret was the better story teller who made everything seem real.

But Michaels was far from his prime when he was in the Rockers. The Harts were a bit more of an established act who just did a lot more meaningful shit during their run.

Good little opening match guy

I'm not even a fan of Hart like I don't get the love but I will say that Bret Hart is his best self when he's having a moan. His bitterness is the one personality trait that really makes him interesting as a character and as a person

lol well Bret's career got taken away from him and he hasn't exactly had the easiest life. At least he's genuine.

Isn't the Hart family also kind of screwed up? I remember seeing that somewhere.

the Hart family is a fucking disaster lol

For the most part, Bret sucked in the WCW. Oh well..still a fan of Sting Vs. Hart @ HH '98

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3uw5ot

Harlem Heat*

this is a bret thread, why is michaels dick in your mouth

correct

insert "Bret screwed Bret!" here.

I just think it's specious to discredit Bret the way you do. With or without Bret or Shawn (the two biggest stars of the previous era), Stone Cold was taking them to the top. It wasn't addition via subtraction except a little easier for McMahon to manage the locker room without having to deal w/ Bret and Shawn's bullshit.

Bret and shawn were not stars. Thats your mistake.

Michaels became a star in 2002 or so.

They were stars like booker t and jeff jarrett were stars at the end of wcw

Are you referring to their drawing power b/c then I get your argument?

Yes

Yeah domestically they weren't great but Bret was a good draw for WWE internationally. Helped business a good deal when they went overseas.

Ive said this before but yeah he was a real big deal in india. Sadly the company still almost went under on his watch so ee shouldnt break out arms patting him on the back.

this weeks bischoffs podcast is about bret hart it is a hoot.

Only cuz Taker threatened to beat his ass if he didn’t lol

Nah because the company went under. WWE actually stayed alive with Bret and Shawn.

Barely

AND THEN Bret helped make Steve Austin leading to the boom period. WM13 turned Austin into a truly blood and guts babyface. In fact, the argument could be made that the Hart Foundation angle versus Austin got the ball rolling. The ratings weren't going to flip on a dime - it had to start somewhere and Bret's heel turn signified the start of a shift.

Maybe if Kevin Sullivan was the booker they'd have drawn more.

Only went under due to the AOL Time Warner merger. The financials were stronger for 2000's WCW. But thats a poor justification on your part; numbers be damned. Bankruptcy was a real concern and they had to use smaller and smaller venues throughout his entire run.

Liking a guys work and him being good are not the same thing and thats what mid-90s WWF fans dont get. That entire era should be remembered as a failure.

but the fact is they went under while WWE didn't.

I could list a million reasons why Bret AND Shawn got boned during their runs at the top but you'll just point to the numbers. At the end of the day, WCW failed and flopped. WWF kept afloat until they hit their boom and trounced WCW.