Meltzer reports ESPN + likely the new home for WWE PPVs (Update Pg. 2)
 

The Gist:


At the Q4 Vince said Network subscriptions are down 10% and Attendance is down 20% from this time last year. A big reason George Barrios/Michele Wilson were let go seems to be them advocating for the WWE Network to retain ppvs.


Vince is actively seeking a buyer, ideally another streaming service such as Hulu, Amazon, etc - to sell ppv rights to. This would mean WWE's live PPVs would no longer air on the WWE Network and fans would need to purchase them or get a subscription to another streaming service.


He is hopeful to make this happen ASAP. The idea of returning to traditional PPVs at the 50-60 dollars a ppv is also a possibility if he sees fit.



Can read more here and at all the various news sites who cover it even in further depth:

https://www.thewrap.com/wwe-stock-pl...-40-per-share/

If that's the case, RIP WWE Network

The $50 ppv got killed by the network when it launched. You can still get them for from Directv but...why?

If PPVs go away then the network is dead, no one's gonna pay $10 for back catalog PPVs. It could stay free with ads but they won't put the money into it if it's free.

The advantage to selling to Hulu/Netflix etc is they get potentially more eyes on the product and more money upfront.

It's obviously going to be either Hulu or Netflix.

That's a pretty terrible idea and just going to do even more damage to the Network.

Also they probably are going to do the same mistake like when the Network launched where they completely over-estimate the interest and value of their PPVs to both providers and customers.

Only reason AEW can get away with charging a premium for their PPVs is because they only hold a few per year and didn't purposely kill the value of their PPVs. WWE doesn't have that luxury in either case.

Wonder if NXT TakeOvers will also be sold as PPVs since that would just be another nail to the Network.

Ooooof

I bet his logic is that they will have more penetration on a larger streaming service and will increase ratings. I get that. But still ooooooof. Network will be doomed for sure.

On Meltzer's board he speculates the most likely buyer might be DAZN. He said they've been wanting to get into wrestling ppvs for a while.

I'm not familiar with them at all - does anyone have experience with their site or app?


https://www.dazn.com/en-US/l/sports/

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I feel a boom in the age of piracy be comin mateys

Vince and WWE legit used that same line of thinking when it came to them constantly bragging about their social media and Youtube exposure metrics and that resulted in basically nothing in terms of ratings boosts.

They have rights to soccer and other niche sports in other countries but the only rights they have in the US are for Bellator and some minor boxing

It's $20/month or $100/year obviously a deal if they keep the $100 rate, but I wouldn't pay $20 a month for it

I'd rather pay a little more for the network and keep all the features the way they are then having to potentially pay more for Netflix/Hulu/Dazn and lose the back catalog of shows too.

If Amazon buys it, I'd be happy cause I already pay for prime. I just can't see it being Amazon.

This is literally the only reason I ever got the network.
I bet a lot of people would still pay for it if they keep making documentaries and uploading classic territory footage.

Nah, I’d be out. I go halves with a friend but it’s already lost value due to NXT now not being available to me the day after air. This would be me saying bye to the network as you can get the most decent stuff “elsewhere”.

lolololool!

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">VKM: When you're playing with some of the majors [OTT players] it depends on negotiation. if we could keep it [WWE Network], absolutely.<br><br>Lightshed: Is WWE Network a must have for you?<br><br>VKM: Nothing is a must have. We'll deal with what's available.</p>&mdash; Brandon Thurston (@BrandonThurston) <a href="https://twitter.com/BrandonThurston/status/1225457978813317121?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">February 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Pretty much a vote of no confidence on the Network's future if the top guy in charge doesn't see it as a "must have" value.

This seems like a bad idea.

But I usually watch the PPVs on Monday anyway so if they're still posted to the network the day after they air, I'm good.

Is this going to screw up me finding a free stream online?

I doubt Amazon would pick up ppvs. So that leaves Hulu and Netflix.

Disney got a majority stake in Hulu. Which makes me wonder if they want the PPVs, they'll want more.

Netflix would be cool. But would I have to pay extra to my membership to get them. If so, how much extra? And would they even want sports.

Bigger question, how's the stock doing?

Dropped by almost 10% today.

Currently around the value it was before the new tv deals were announced.

They really should try to just air WrestleMania on FOX to make it a big event like the Super Bowl (obviously not nearly as big)

are they going to try to get us to pay 50 bucks for there ppv's again good luck with that maybe mania but the others

I'd pay for the Rumble, SummerSlam, and WrestleMania.

For any of the others, I'd have to be really blown away by the card (assuming they're all not available on demand anymore).

The clue is in the term "Pay Per View".

WWE viewers have had it too good for too long!

This. Not only have the devalued their own product by making every PPV worth less than $9.99, they've actually made their own PPV worth even less than $9.99 due to the awful quality of their product. This just shows how much of a fucking idiot Vince is and has been over the last 5+ years.

WHO'S EXCITED FOR THE XFL THIS WEEKEND?!?!?!!!!?!! WHOOOOOO

I mean..fuck Vince but hope it lasts for the players, coaches, etc.

Bout time.

I actually am

Go defenders

Tickets arent bad for NY/NJ. 30 dollars.

If I ever go back to Metlife it will be too soon though. So, not going to happen.

like jim cornett said wwe killed the pay per view now they won't be able to put the horse in the barn again. what they should have done from the start of the network is keep the big 4 pay per views off the network till a month after shown live.

Pirate Paul Burchill approves, me hearty.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/...20151117071949

Auto-correct strikes again...:nono:

But would FOX really air a WrestleMania if it's theoretically like 8 or 9 hours long? Plus, if WWE wanted to add in commercial breaks and FOX was actually insane enough to air it, I doubt fans are sticking around for longer than an hour, *maybe* 2. Hell, it seems barely any stick around for 2 hours of NXT or SmackDown!.

They should cut it down to like 4 hours

If FOX aired WM the commercial breaks mid match, for that event in particular, would be weird. Same for the Royal Rumble.

I wonder if FB or YT is a possibility, WWE seems to have a great relationship with both. Could also be something 'out of nowhere' like CBS Sports. Will be very interesting to see what happens.

Very interesting move. WWE PPVs have been underpriced for some time. The Royal Rumble, WrestleMania, SummerSlam and Survivor Series should have always had an additional tag to them. This will probably make Vince McMahon a lot of money.

Calling my shot: This is where Vince is fully able to get in bed with ESPN and the PPVs end up on ESPN +

Lol, commercials during the fucking Royal Rumble match would be a disaster.

They should sponsor individual entrance spots in the Rumble.

Cole: And coming in at entrant number 15 it’s Roman Reigns brought to you by Hungry Man Frozen Dinners. You know Corey, Roman once eliminated 13 other superstars in a single Royal Rumble match, and folks if you want to eliminate your hunger in a single sitting check out the all new Hungry Man XXL Extreme dinners. Hungry Man: Eat Like a Man.

more people will buy that hulu Disney plus espn + package that would be worth 12.50 if you ad wwe

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I would be interested in Wrestlemania airing on Fox if they did the advertisements as a part of the show. Product placements, or the announcer could say "The following contest is for the WWE Smackdown Tag Team Championship! Brought to you buy Snickers, Hungry? Grab a Snickers?" etc... And then replays would be like the classic, "King let's check out the replay on that!" and the replay says CASTROL GT MANIA REPLAY. Or the announcers have Bud Light in front of them at the table etc... That would be kind of fun and non intrusive to a degree that I could handle.

Further more... while a lot of people are talking ESPN+ just as likely would be DAZN.

I can concieve of like 5 different ways that can go from here. I'm not upset about it. It seems like Barios and Wilson were the ones that put everything on the Network for $9.99 and completely undervalued the product to the point where that's exactly what it was worth or less. If WWE can keep strong or at least above average shows going then eventually going to true PPV model will work. There is going to be a few years of struggle no doubt.

Cole:Here comes King Corbin, brought to you by Purina dog Chow..Purina dog Chow feed your dog like a king
Lawler: wait a minute..

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

I mean come on, that would be perfect.

Big issue I think is UFC on ESPN. I don't think Vince could stand sharing the spotlight with UFC and Dana White.

If they were to join ESPN+ or DAZN I'd prefer ESPN+.

Cole: Here comes Jeff Hardy and it's a good time to mention our newest sponsor Heineken 0 Alcohol Beer. Heineken 0.0 Beer, had it been around 10 years ago Jeff Hardy wouldn't be treated this badly

A it's cheaper B it has more content and C..it's easier to say

WWE having to partner with Belator would be hilarious though

I honestly don’t know why they haven’t branded the shit out of their ring yet. All the MMA companies do it. NJPW does it. The Mexican feds do it. If anything it would give the product more of a sports feel since pretty much every pro sports league sells whatever bit of advertising space they can.

Vince the "genius". Think he needs tested for dementia at this point. :-\

Just further proof Vince only cares about money. He would sell the rights to his own Mother if he could.

"Number 18... is Mojo Rawley! #18 is brought to you by Jiffy Lube! Do More in a Jiffy! And just like that, Rawley was gone... if A JIFFY!"

Well yeah, his mum sexually abused him so I think that's fair enough.

They probably think it would distract from the brand itself and/or not wanting to spend money on custom mats that might become useless in the future if sponsorships change.

WWE changes mats almost every show though don't they?

After investigating it seems like WWE actually use numerous canvasses every event.
So they spend a ton on that anyway, a sponsor change would make little difference to that.

Must just be because of the brand thing like you said. No distractions.

I'd assume its just cheaper to use generic mats than have to print out multiple custom mats for shows and possibly have some only be usable for certain shows if tv sponsorships are different.

Like the main reason why WWE never bothered to do custom mats for PPVs like WCW used to do was them not wanting to spend money on mats that could only be used once per year.

That’s a bummer. I guess we won’t be seeing any JVC Kaboom Box Kaboom of the Week highlights any time soon.

Seems WWE's stocks might be getting hammered again soon.

WWE is currently facing an investigation regarding potential concerns the company violated federal securities laws in regards to their previous fiscal report. Could potential tie into their recent fiscal report and business changes as well.

Link: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/equit...214500937.html

There seems to be some juice to the Amazon being the streaming site. A few different reports are out there, including CNBC. Prime isn't the best streaming platform quality wise, but it is far better performing then the WWE Network. That "upgrade" was such a failure.

What would be the point of the network? Glad i only have through april left on my subscription

Maybe like how RAW and Smackdown are now, the PPVs would show up as library content a month after the air date?

Uhg I hope it isn't Amazon. I could see them actually running them as individual PPVs, kind of like their rental service on certain titles that aren't included for free with Prime.

Meltzer mentioned on his board that CAA (the agency repping WWE) has indeed reached out to Amazon, so it's possible.

For them I hope it is Amazon and not DAZN which I feel like is the Dreamcast of Steaming Services.

You joke, but that would be the smartest way to do it. Sponsors on the barricade, ring, LEDs, etc. “Replay brought to you by.” A wrestler or two repping them as something a bit humorous. I keep imagining Curtis Axel in a modern day Pastamania-like spot.

Access to every show in the WWE extended library ever as well as new content.

Meh,They hardly ever update their content .two seasons of e&c in like 5 years. No more legends house or holy foley and ive watched most of the 80's/90's ppvs already. I can only watch so much table for 3 or ride along

Their documentaries are usually top quality, but mostly available “elsewhere”.

None of the WrestleMania ads so far have mentioned it airing on the WWE Network, remember those rumors of a streaming deal with someone else (DAZN, Hulu, ESPN +, etc) happening sooner than we think?

Super Showdown ads have WWE Network logo with them...

All the WWE Network has done is show WWE how little fucking demand their paid content has. It's not a de-valuation issue, but instead a demand issue due to poor quality. Vince is so fucking stupid he doesn't even realize it.

From Meltzer/Wrestling Observer


No word on if the PPVs would be included in the price of ESPN + or if just the bigger shows (Mania, Rumble, SummerSlam) would cost additional.

Interested to hear TheCyNick’s take on WWE having to find a new home for their specials.

Enjoy all those Roman Reigns vs Baron Corbin matches ESPN+

If they’re smart they will charge for WrestleMania and the Royal Rumble, at least. I’d add Money in the Bank, SummerSlam, Survivor Series and other massive shows to that list.

I think they should try and cultivate a thing where you can offer to pay whatever you want for a Takeover. They can be free if you want them for free, but there are options to pay if you want to. I think you’d be surprised at how many people would pop a fiver down for a Takeover.

I just don't see people going back to paying $50-$60 for a PPV. I did once for AEW with Double or Nothing, mostly cause it was before they had an actual show, but that was a special case.

I think WWE thinks if we pay for the Network, we would be willing to pay full price for PPVs. The truth though is prior to the Network, the last PPV I paid for was Wrestlemania 18.

I'd rather pay a $5 cover and go watch the PPV at Buffalo Wild Wings if it is absolutely can't miss, but when is the last time there was really a can't miss PPV?

The truth is I think most people will just wait until Raw to hear the results of the PPV for free, and maybe skim through it once it is available for replay whenever down the line that may be.

It's what I did from 2002-2014, and I certainly didn't enjoy it any less.

yeah the bars will be happy if they go back to the 50 buck ppv they can fill up there places again on sundays sell beer and wings, you know they were pissed off when the network came out.

Bars ordered WWE PPVs?

I would pay $50 - $60 for WM and the Rumble and prob SummerSlam if the ppvs move to ESPN +

But I can't fathom ever paying that amount for a B show or even Survivor Series/MITB. Honestly, even if a ESPN + subscription was 4.99 and I had to pay 9.99 on top of that just to watch a B-show I doubt I would even do that.

Yes, a lot of em. They were called "WWE Blast Areas" and would usually charge a 10 dollar cover.

When I lived in LA I'd go to one every month at the bar in a bowling alley. It was always packed.

HOOTERS used to show WWE ppvs too in a lot of places.

I can't see WWE coexisting with UFC and Boxing on ESPN+

That's how I used to watch PPVs back in the day. There was a bar on base that would let you go in as long as you were 14, just some pool tables and a bunch of TVs, had a bar if u were old enough, and had a pizza place and a chicken place inside the same building. 4 dollar cover to get in for PPVs lol. Was the best.

People can be manipulated relatively easily. They often get conditioned to believe that something is worth what they’re charged for it. When it comes to this, I’m reminded of Vince upping PPV prices in 1997. Even with Bischoff mocking the WWF publicly for this, the move was successful.

I will pay for $60 Wrestlemania but not every PPV. And they'd have to be really good otherwise I'd just "find a stream".

Seems silly in this day and age with everything streaming, but you could just buy the DVD of the PPV when it comes out for $15-$20. That saves you $40 and you can watch it more than once.

I also think it has the potential to backfire badly.

WWE's product has kind of hit rock bottom ratings wise, and have been fairly steady since. The Network subscribers make up about 75% of Raw's ratings (2 rating with 1.5 million subscribers).

How many are going to be unwilling to pay an extra $50 just to keep watching PPVs? How many are going to stop watching the weekly shows if they are not going to have access to the PPVs that are the payoff for following Raw, Smackdown, etc.?

WWE may earn more on a few individual PPVs, but certainly not all of them. Whatever gains they may get won't balance out the losses everywhere else.

This! I get wwe is losing money on wm's over the years but nobody is paying $50 bucks for wwe ppv's in 2020. Their product is at an alltime low in interest and quality. Wwe figured the network would take off and they could recoop the money but now the network has gone from 2 mil to 1.4 viewers. Unless them charging more money will result in a better product overall which i doubt ,then theres no point for any wwe fan to want or support this non sense.

Yo man you got any of them free streams maaaaaan?

I guarantee you people will order these shows. Especially big ones like the Royal Rumble and WrestleMania.

Of course people will they're idiots but the other 7/8 ppvs def wont be worth the asking price ,
unless wwe drastically lowers the ppv price,which they could

Yep.

They don't even release blu rays anymore

I said I would pay for RR and WM if they were 60 bucks.

Any other show I won't pay more than I do right now.

if the bars shows them again, might be worth 10 bucks cover drink beer and eat wings. for the crap ppvs

Yea i lived in bars on sundays in the early to mid 2000's paying 7 bucks to get drunk and watch wrestling.i just wish i had the same passion for wrestling i did nearly 20 years ago

Exactly right. Just to simplify let's say 1.5 million paid subscribers at $10 a month vs $50 for a monthly PPV.

To make the same money they would need a buyrate of 300,000.

Mania, Rumble, and Summerslam get that historically.

Survivor Series has in the past, and could with a great card.

The other 8 though, before the Network those all were struggling to get even 200,000 buys. So that is 8 months WWE just pissed away 33% of their earnings.

Now unsimplifying it, WWE stated numerous times that they get a much bigger piece of the renevue, 85% of the Network over 50% of traditional PVP buys.

85% of $15 million (1.5 million subscribers) would be $12.75 million a month.
To get the same $12.75 million at $25 (half of the $50 for the ppv) they are looking at needing 510,000 buys.

If the 8 B show PPVs were actually to return to the 200,000 range, WWE would bank $5 million per show.

They would be losing $7.75 million 8 times, a total of $62 million for the year.

To offset that loss, the big 4 PPVs would each need to generate an extra $15.5 million above the $12.75 million, which at $25 (half of the $50 for the ppv) would mean an additional 620,000 buys on top of the break even 510,000 buys previously mentioned.

1,130,000 buys. WWE has done this twice, ever.

WrestleMania 23 (1,200,000 Buys)
WrestleMania 18 (1,217,000 Buys)

The only way WWE comes out ahead on this is by getting a guarantee from ESPN+ or whoever that just buys the PPV rights for a flat fee so high, say $25 million per, that ESPN would be taking the loss each month when they can't get people to buy the PPVs.

Math Bitches!

Great post, thanks!

I think that’s fair. I can imagine them only putting a few landmark PPVs at a price. Royal Rumble, WrestleMania, Money in the Bank (since people seem to still be marks for the match), SummerSlam and Survivor Series (which could be Taker’s retirement this year). I imagine the others will all be either free, on the WWE Network or sold for chips. It might encourage them to make more of an effort.

I’m hoping that they put out a one-hour more adult show on ESPN+ to give them some original programming. Could be something like what Shotgun Saturday Night was originally scheduled to be.