This new ECW is a FAILURE
 

This new ECW is a failure. At first I was welcome because i thought it had potential. WWE hasnt had a good hardcore division in a long time because the hardcore title was destroyed. Well, I thought here comes a new hardcore division and who better then the hardcore brand of ECW?

I was very wrong. So far ECW is a ENORMOUS failure.

First of all, it is a SCAM. ECW is suppose to be hardcore wrestling, it is suppose to be rebelious. So far I havent seen much hardcore wrestling in ECW most of it is NEAUTERED wrestling with sabu jumping on a chair or through a table once or twice. This is NOT Hardcore. Hardcore was the WWE hardcore division during the attitude era and in modern day hardcore is CZW. ECW was hardcore, but this new ECW is NOT Hardcore, it is a CHEAP immitation of hardcore. Extreme Championship Wrestling? I don't think so it is about as extreme as jbl. Thus ECW is a FAILURE.

Second, ECW had its own hardcore wrestlers. What does WWE do? They get a couple of names like Sandman and Sabu and then fill the rest with WWE guys! No problem, but this is not ECW. Kurt Angle is not ECW. Why doesn't the WWE open up their wallets and get REAL ecw stars like New Jack, Dudleys and Mikey WHIPRECK! If you're gonna be doing ECW, get real ECW stars or if youre that stingy, fine, get HARDCORE wwe guys not kurt angle. He's a good technical wrestler but he's not hardcore. Plus WWE is limiting all the ecw stars, no one is as hardcore as they can be. ECW is a FAILURE of talent.

Third, the shows themselves. One hour? ONE HOUR? how does the wwe expect ecw to be anything but a crappy jobber show with one hour. Thats not enough time to develop storylines and have good hardcore brawls. ECW is a failure of PLANNING.

I find this new ECW DISSAPOINTING. WWE needs to get their stuff together and put the hardcore back in ECW. Give us some deathmatches, some weapons matches, stuff like that. Get some burning tables, make ECW explode like it used to. But don't give us this watered down weak third WWE brand and call it ECW because it is NOWHERE near ECW.

I stopped reading once you brought CZW into a conversation about ECW.

Well, i mean. Did you really expect it to be the old ECW? Everyone expected Vince to take control of it in a coupe months, but he did it in a couple weeks. WWECW, not ECW my friend.

Of course he expected ECW. His perfect WWE would never lie to him.

Well maybe you should get a lesson about it, because if youre talking hardcore wrestling, CZW is definetely a part of it.

If you doubt that CZW is hardcore check out their lightube matches, something the neautered ECW WOULDN'T DO.

I knew who this was by before I even entered the wrstling forum.

If you think ECW is only about being hardcore, or ever was, or ever should be, you're more retarded than the CZW fans.

The original ECW didn't even have light tube matches.

There's a fine line between "hardcore" and "garbage" buddy. And while ECW did have some garbage (see: New Jack), CZW has tons and tons more.

I stopped reading once I saw that Vermaat was the one who posted this thread

IT'S STILL REAL TO VERMAAT, DAMMIT!!!!!

Hey, this ECW is NEW and INNOVATIVE. They're going to INNOVATIVE to new heights and are SCAMMING some of the best Indy wrestlers into coming into their NEW promotion.

I didn't say they did, but that's because they were a long time ago. Lightube matche is an innovation, but I'm pretty sure old ECW wouldnt be afraid to do some lightube matches. I know it is WWE owned but I was hoping ECW would be at least like the hardcore division which is NOT.

And if u think hardcore is garbage then you shouldn't call yourself a ECW fan!

I cannot believe you actually just said that.

Seriously. I know you like to stir the pot here, but Jesus Christ, try to ACT like you're intelligent.

It's MAKE IT or BREAK it time for ECW!!!!!!

Seriously though, vermaat, you're retarded if you expected it to be like it was before. I'm actually in favour of not every match being extreme rules at the moment as the roster is so short, if they get too many injuries due to so many extreme rules matches, WWECW will be gone before its even properly started.

Yeah cuz it's the truth.

Vermaat had sex with Sadistic last night

okay but seriously, seeing as how Vermaat is a John CEna fan (judging by his avatar and custom title) what are your thoughts on CEna being in ECW for that short time a few months ago


























































ITS STILL REAL TO ME DAMMIT!!!!

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Answer me this: Name me at least 2 ECW matches (I'm not even looking for events here) that were never released on a WWE-produced product (24/7, DVD, TV) that you have seen.

I'll bet you can't name me something that wasn't overly extreme. I have never said that ECW didn't have any garbage wrestling, only that it wasn't the big bulk and advertising aspect of the product that idiots seem to think it was today.

You know, I've been dying to mention the fact that Vermaat has been MIA since Cena lost the title to RVD......but I didn't want to jinx it.

He didn't have anything to "push buttons", as people say.

No, lighttube matches are about as much an innovation as entrance music. Garbage wrestlers across at least two countires did it concurrent with the "old" ECW, you're just one of those idiots who only knows what he sees on WWE TV.

I think he just now uncurled himself from the fetal position, where he's been sucking his thumb and repeating "UNNACCEPTABLE" since ONS.

Also, again, ECW was not just hardcore. Hardcore is not just garbage. CZW is garbage, not because it's hardcore.

CZW and ECW are comparable because they share one initial, and that's about it. There's hardcore, and then there's garbage. The one is not necessarily the other.

ECW had some non hardcore wrestling, thats true its not the most hardcore federation, but that doesn't mean that hardcore wasnt the focus, it was.

And you actually think giving the title to RVD was a good idea? Where is RVD now huh? Where? OH RIGHT HE FAILED.

Hardcore is not garbage. CZW is hardcore, but it is not "garbage", it's an awesome fed that is VERY hardcore. If u don't like hardcore, it's okay, but don't call something garbage because you happen not to like it, that's downplaying all the sacrifices CZW wrestler do.

I know you're an idiot, but you failed to name two non-WWE released ECW matches you have seen, and I never said hardcore was garbage.

Tard.

CZW is GARBAGE, and when they are not pulling off garbage matches they have a bunch of skinny guys doing ten flips in order to accomplish an arm drag.

Ah, again with the insults to show your maturity level (hint: belong in first grade).

You said As far as non wwe released ecw matches, do you really think I have a list here of matches that wwe released on 24/7 and on dvd? IT DOESNT MATTER

Obviously CZW is too hardcore for you. Maybe u should watch golf instead and come back when you have an UNDERSTANDING of hardcore.

I've never seen CZW, is it similar to what we had out here in Los Angeles called XPW? XPW was a steaming pile of rat shit.

Pot, meet kettle. I hear you have something to say?

Sadly, your grasp of the English language doesn't even put you in first grade. I said CZW is garbage. That does not equal "Hardcore is garbage."

It does matter, because you know shit about the old ECW. You don't know shit about garbage wrestling either, since you think that light tube matches are INNOVATIVE.

Ain't you the hypocrite.

Basic Logic.

CZW = Hardcore.

You : Hardcore is garbage

:

CZW = Garbage.

I didnt say lightube matches are innovative, I simply made an example of a type of hardcore wrestling match that hardcore companies are doing today that the new ECW of today which claims to be hardcore wouldn't do. It's simple really.

:lol: This guy shows up like once a month and just sets this place on fire... I love it

Vermaat got peed on!

:naughty:

Yeah, that's right.

:yes:

It was an innovation in the 90s but it is not innovative now. Mind the context.

Sorry, skippy, first off...

I said CZW is garbage. Not Hardcore.

Second, basic logic doesn't work like that. Since it would be just as retarded for you to have said:

olive=a shade of green.
You said: I hate olive
Therefore, you hate green.

By your logic, since the KKK are christian, Christians must be in the Klan.


Liar.

You said:

Right there in your own words, you called light tube matches an innovation, clear as crystal even in the face of your broken English.

:naughty: :naughty:

Yeah, that's right.


:yes: :yes:

Care to go for the hypocrite/liar hat-trick?

See the little white square with a green arrow on it? It's called the refresh button, press it because I ALREADY ADRESSED this issue.

False. KKK and Christians on the whole are not one and the same as the KKK. Ditto for olives and "shades of green". However, CZW by definition is hardcore wrestling. It make no sense for one to say they like hardcore wrestling and bash CZW because CZW's wrestling style is hardcore wrestling.

Shut the fuck up.

Worm'd!
 

I think he likes you KK.

If all you have to contribute to this thread is this, then please get out. No one wants your immature comments here, it's not funny.


Arnold, you need to MIND THE CONTEXT. Like I said, Lightube matches aren't essentially innovative now, but in the CONTEXT of that topic, I was making an example of a match that is popular these days with the hardcore companies. You lack a point, come back wnen you have one.

LMAO...'MIND THE CONTEXT'.

Should be Matt Strikers new catchphrase.

All right, I'll see you all later tonight when this thread is 12 pages.

So they kicked you out too, eh? It's prolly cuz you love John Cena and real ECW fans don't. ;)

Anyway, I laugh at how you claim ECW was all about hardcore wrestling. Just goes to show how ignorant you really were, since they also brough luchador wrestling to the U.S. and featured tons of technical wrestling as well. It's just that their hardcore matches were what got them the most attention, but that doesn't mean that's all they did.

But here you come, spouting about how people like Kurt Angle don't belong, and how Vince should hire the Dudley's back and such. Um... they don't want to come back. Nice try.

And "real stars like New Jack." :rofl: Yeah. Because when people think ECW, the first five names they think of include New Jack. :lol:



You've yet to address anything. You just think you have. But you're a funny guy. So it's quite entertaining when you pop up every month or so and make like a sensationalist tabloid mag. :lol:

My point is that if you were to stand in a barrel of milk while you argue, by the end you would be standing on a block of cheese with as much as you bullshit your way in circles.

Yeah, take a look in the mirror Vermaat,






























Dumbass:nono:

Hardcore was the focal point of ECW. Sure, they brough other things to the table, but hardcore was the bread and butter. When people think of ECW, they think of extreme, of Sandman and Dudleys and Dreamer NOT of luchadors and dean malenko. They were there, but they weren't the FOCUS.

New Jack was just thrown in as an example of hardcore that ECW represents.

Also, Dudleys dont want back? If WWE gives them a big enough deal, they'll be over here in no time. WWE just wants to waste money on the great khali (CRAP) instead of getting the rigHt stars for their new brand which they call "hardcore" when it is not.

Here is something INNOVATIVE...shut the fuck up.

Excuse me kid, isn't it time for your BEDTIME? Your mom will be pissed if she finds out youre on the computer past your bedtime!

No, Verm. WWE has offered the Dudleys (and Rhino and Raven...) a large sum of money to sign with ECW. And they refused. They're happier being big fish in the small pond of TNA.

Now, I'm going to try to play the peacemaker here, because I think there's a fundamental part of "our" argument that you're just not understanding. Hopefully, by my clarifying this, you'll be able to understand where people are coming from, rather than calling them first-graders.

We're not saying that ECW never had hardcore wrestling.
We're not saying that all hardcore wrestling is bad.
We're not saying that CZW isn't hardcore wrestling.

What we're saying is that CZW is bad hardcore wrestling. ECW had good hardcore wrestling. Matches that had psychology and a story that happened to include tables and chairs and canes. CZW is two idiots whacking each other over the head with lighttubes and calling themselves hardcore.

That's where the KKK comparison came in. The KKK are the farthest reach of the Christian Church, in that these are men who pretend to be Christian while performing horrible un-Christian acts. CZW is like the farthest reach of wrestling, in that they pretend to be wrestlers while performing in horrible matches.

ECW had some great hardcore moments, some arguably more brutal than CZW's "best" stuff. The Born To Be Wired match is a great example of this. But ECW also had Rob Van Dam and Jerry Lynn and Lance Storm and Chris Benoit and Super Crazy and Mike Awesome. Guys who could go hardcore, but could also flat-out wrestle. CZW has guys like Nick Mondo and Madman Pondo who couldn't wrestle their way out of a paper bag.

:rofl:



Shut the fuck up.

So how is that much different from now? In your original post, you basically said that the new ECW needs all hardcore all the time. Now you're saying it should focus on hardcore, which is a much more reasonable argument.

But frankly, right now, they already have a mix of hardcore matches and non-hardcore ones.

It's just that they've toned down the hardcore matches because they don't want wrestlers injuring each other or shortening their shelf life as workers in the company. In past arguments, you've referred to that sort of thing as "Vince caring for his workers." Now you want to bust out the chainsaws and have people mutilate each other?

It's things like that that make people call you a dumbass. And you can act high and mighty and above name calling all you like, but the fact that you consistently have holes in your arguments doesn't speak much toward your favor, and the fact that you continue to ignore your own holes and simply brush other people off as being stubborn basically invites you toward insult.

It's amazing you haven't figured this out already, but then again, I've already marked you out as one of those stereotypical Americans who refuse to admit they're wrong and never take responsibility for anything, preferring instead to believe that they're always right and that the world must adhere to them.

Vermaat, I think we should perhaps address the fact you've completely misunderstood what ECW was.

To the layperson ECW was about 'garbage wrestling', and many were drawn to it by the appeal of violent, no-holds barred wrestling from the likes of New Jack, the Baldies, Cactus Jack and the Pitbulls. However, ECw is better known in the wrestling community for being hardcore.

Now, please don't misinterpret the word 'hardcore' here. I do not refer to 'garbage wrestling', chair shots, broken tables, balcony dives (and in the case of CZW recently) broken lightubes, thumbtacks and water-containers. I refer to the Hardcore attitude. The Hardcore attitude refelected the 'up yours' attitude of the 90s, which as you might know, was replicated to some degree by the WWE.

ECW wasn't about garbage wrestling at all. And many within the industry would detest any similarities being drawn between CZW and ECW. If there was any exisiting federation around today which could be comparable to ECW in the 1990s it'd be ROH. Because at least ROH is thinking outside the box, against the convention of storylines, angles and gimmicks and breaking the mould just like ECW was 10 years ago.

The reason Dudleys left in the first place was because WWE wouldn't give them the money they wanted. If WWE made an offer, it wasn't big enough because no one is going to refuse a big enough offer. The offer was obviously too small.

I understand all that, but I disagree. I don't see how CZW is bad hardcore wrestling. Hardcore wrestling is about being hardcore, about over the top gratuitous violence. Hardcore wrestling is about tables, chairs, explosions, lightubes and frying pans. That's why it's "hardcore" and not technical. This could be a matter of taste and that's fine. I'm not going to argue with anyone who says they don't like CZW's hardcore wrestling.

ECW was about Hardcore wrestling just like ECW. To say that there is no similarity between the two is simply wrong.

CZW don't pretend to be wrestlers. That's where you make the same mistake as others. They ARE wrestlers. HARDCORE wrestlers. Not technical wrestlers. HARDCORE wrestlers. Yes, ECW had all those technical wrestlers, but the main FOCUS was Hardcore, it was the image. That's why ECW had barbed wire on it's sign.

Still haven't gotten my answer.

I'll make it easier for you. Name five ECW matches that you liked.

You know what would be HARDCORE and VIOLENT...shut the fuck up.

No, No, No, No, No

What you are referring to is garbage wrestling.

You didn't, because you still contradicted yourself. Besides, I'm not going to hit refresh (Which, by the way, is not a little white square on my browser) every ten seconds to see if you've responded. Special as you are...



CZW and hardcore are not synonymous, sorry. You lose.

Which ECW events have you watched? The minority, not the majority, of ECW wrestlers were garbage wrestlers.

Your Mom will be pissed when she finds out you're not using that thesaurus she bought you for Christmas.

If I'm not gonna get him to name two non-WWE released matches, you aren't going to get that answer.

Actually, he used the word "gratuitous" correctly. I must commend him.

I think he's gone anyway. I hope that this is all a big wind-up because Vermaat seems a little too stubborn/naive to be genuine

someone give him an obliterating bitch slap:yes:

Vermaat has just made me love the new ECW.

You know why so many people shit on CZW? It's because "hardcore wrestling" (the bad kind, the kind referred to as "garbage" by most people here) is its focus. Sure, they have guys who have talent working the undercard, but they seem ashamed of this talent.

When I think of ECW, I think of a company which was based on its talent. Something very different from the WWE and WCW. I think of Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit, Lance Storm, Jerry Lynn, Rob Van Dam, Rey Mysterio, Super Crazy, Psicosis, Chris Jericho, Yoshihiro Tajiri, Little Guido, Tracy Smothers and Tony Mamaluke. I'm sorry, but I could give a shit about guys like Tommy Dreamer and The Sandman. I have nothing against them, but their contributions to ECW are extremely overrated.

When Tommy Dreamer and The Sandman probably can't arm-wrestle with their kids anymore, because they are so broken down, you need to do something else to get people interested in your show. Granted, a lot of people are probably angry that the new ECW has rules, but it was always about using those lack of rules to enhance the performances of its talent. Sabu and Rob Van Dam is a great example of this.

Kurt Angle was actually going to be in ECW when he first got started in professional wrestling, so there goes your arguement that he doesn't belong. Angle is also one of the last big stars the WWE has. He helps promote ECW. Oh, and Kurt Angle is a former WWE Hardcore Champion, plus he's had some phenominal "extreme" matches.

By the way, Rob Van Dam didn't "FAIL" as WWE Champion. He made a mistake. John Cena makes one every week when he comes out on the stage running like a retard. Rob Van Dam got caught with drugs, the company did what it needed to do. John Cena, "Lord and Saviour of Professional Wrestling" (according to you and management) has had two WWE Championship reigns, and guess what? Non-wrestling fans don't give a shit. Most wrestling fans don't even give a shit. For a man being groomed as the next Hulk Hogan or Stone Cold Steve Austin, he isn't exactly drawing.

So yeah, final thoughts on the ECW matter:

"ECW was never about hardcore wrestling. The new ECW is different from it, yes, but I feel that has more to do with limitations put on the talent than the lack of "hardcore". I agree with you on the time constraints, but the WWE doesn't control everything like you think they do. Sci-Fi is only willing to give them one hour. It is up to the WWE to make the best of it. So Heat and Velocity for how easily the WWE can fuck that up.

The new ECW would be very similar to the old ECW if they do a few things:

1) Let the talent go at their own pace
2) Remove the disqualification rules, and just have talent use their personal judgment to decide when making a match hardcore is needed.

Oh, and it is not a "FAILURE". It is doing great in the ratings. I don't like it, a lot of others here don't like it, but it is probably going to get renewed as it is. The new ECW has som steps to take before it is truly great, but it can get there without the use of the "WWE Hardcore Division", which was softcore compared to most of ECW's stuff.

well said

I'm starting to take bets on which poster from casual is behind the Vermaat character. Any takers?

Good point Xero, my post was a FAILURE.

so lemme get this straight, you basically add a household or warehouse instrument in a match and its innovative? In that case, i surely cannot wait for CZW to bust out the most innovative match of all time, the spoons and masking tape match! OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!

That's the next hardcore innovation...loser of the match gets spooned. YES!!!!

And we all know, spooning leads to forking!

You do not KNOW this. This is pure SPECULATION. You do not know if it was a BIG enough OFFER or NOT. This is not FACT because you CANNOT PROVE it.


Seriously, how can you be such a huge stickler about wrestling news sites and then go out and blatantly make a biased and opinionated statement by saying it "obviously wasn't a big enough offer"?

LOL. Silly Vermaat.

So tell me, how did you feel when ECW folded? Oh wait, you never heard of it back then? I'd suggest you stop telling us original ECW fans that were there when it was originally around what ECW was really about.

Heyman himself has said that ECW wasn't just about being hardcore. Some - a lot was, but at the same some some - a lot of ECW was about everything else. Some of the best wrestlers to wrestle in North America wrestled in ECW. Guys that weren't hardcore like Benoit, Eddie, Rey, Austin, Super Crazy, and so on.

Original ECW fans (And even a lot of fans who didn't see it when it was originaly on) think of luchadores, chairs, high flying, tables, wrestling, the crowd, and so on. Not just hardcore.

You never saw an ECW match when it was originally on. You probably just heard of it just as One Night Stand came about last year.

I'd suggest that you seriously shut the hell up because you really have no idea what ECW was about and should be about, but you'll give me 7 paragraphs, each contradiction the previous on, about how you know what ECW was really about.

Keep digging that hole. How's China?

It wasn't on WWE.com.

EXACTLY!!!! REST IN PEZ DISPENSERS!!!!!!!! X( :mad:

Guys, he's gone. We're just arguing with thin air. Lets call time on this catastrophic thread before it reaches 3 pages.

[quote=Dorkchop]So tell me, how did you feel when ECW folded? Oh wait, you never heard of it back then? I'd suggest you stop telling us original ECW fans that were there when it was originally around what ECW was really about.[\quote]

But he knows it better than ECW fans, and even Paul E.

Oh, just that itching I got from Sha...Oh.

He'll be back when he thinks up a comeback.

It make take a couple weeks...

Vermatt is the real winner here for hooking you all in yet again.

Fucking with Vermaat is fun. It's hardly hooking anyone in, but if it makes you feel better...

Vermaat, why do you still breath?

4.0, Why are you still here? I thought we agreed you were just MickieJames' imaginary friend.

I'm here because i signed up last september, thus i'm not even close to MickieJames' imaginary friend, i don't even want to think about it :eek:

Sounds like another one of the white man's lies...

Cept i'm not white, that could be a problem

You know, I marked out for the return of Vermaat.

"JBL winning the title at [EVENT] is UNACCEPTABLE" is a classic here on TPWW.

...


...Well, there's a good explaination for that...

...LOOK OVER THERE!

WERE! OH MY GOD

I will not have you sully the good name of skippy by calling this retard skippy

Sorry, emoskippord. I will be more careful in my future endeavors.

Good I wish you the best in your future endeavors

Are...Are you firing me?

YOUUUUUUUURREEEE FIRRRRRRRRRED

I do belive he is.

My name is K. Knight, I represent Knight, Lieberman, Scholtz and Fuhrer. I am here to serve you with an injunction preventing you from using my client, one Donald Trump's trademarks.

Ok then YOUUUUUUUUUURE RELEASED From my fine organization

How good are the odds that Vermaat is one of the guys in the CZW "shoot promo" vid on YouTube? :shifty:

I think he was the one in the Evil Dead Shirt

As much as i hate to admit it, I think Veermat actually does bring up some good points here. Too bad there shrouded in inconsitincies and incoherence.

First, what I'm believing he's saying is that the ECW faithful, the people who had shown their loyalty through and through (and whether Ver is one of those will be open for debate for some time), are definitly showing their displerasure of WWECW. And the people they are TRYING to get to watch this can't or won't because they know just how the original WWE product is now, and doesn't expect for the new ECW to be any different. It is getting high ratings now, but how long will that hold out? We saw and heard the hardcore ECW fans in the ballroom rip the Batista/Show match a new one, and that has been a indication of just what has been the universal reaction between the ECW faithful and those who know the crapfests that Vince has been giving us lately. The new ECW is being held back, as the ECW of old really tore the roof off everything. The hardcore parts were just plain sick, and it let the wrestlers who put on the good matches really work to their full potential. The new ECW is just the WWE with an added twist which doesn't seem quite special considering how the WWE did their hardcore division in 98 before they did that 24/7 crap. It was quite a treat to see food being used for some of the matches in those ones. At least they had some sort of personality. You wanted to see what they were going to use next. Here those that should care don't and those that were faithful knew that would happen.

And I think that he was referring to the lighttube matches as what the Hell In A Cell matches were when we first saw the match. They were innovative for their time (even though both would be overused now), and a telling of what some sick matches can be like, regardless of how any one of us as individuals feel.

I wouldn't say that the new ECW is a failure yet, though. It will be if Vince keeps trying to WWEify (if that's a word) the product.

Too bad he was saying ECW wouldn't have been above using them, were they around at the time. He may claim otherwise, but he even went on to claim that these are matches a hardcore company today would use.

Ironically, he told us to mind the context, but the context is more damning than anything.

1. Baldies vs Rotten/Mahoney
2. New Jack Vs Mustafa.
3. Funk Vs Sabu (Born to be wired)
4. Sabu Vs. The Sandman (Stairway to hell)
5. Ian Rotten Vs. Axl Rotten (Dethmatch)

Whats ur point? That, "OH BUT MOST OF THESE GUYS ARE IN THE NEW ECW?" Well, sure they are but they are NEAUTERED.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's garbage. It is still hardcore wrestlin.

The guy who doesn't see my post adressing the issue calling someone else special? LOOK UP IRONY IN THE DICTIONARY.

CZW is a hardcore wrestling federation. Their specialty? Hardcore wrestling. Their product? Hardcore wrestling.

It is not garbage, it is REAL hardcore wrestling. What the new ECW is showing is NOT hardcore wrestling.

All true, but Kurt Angle is OLD today. He is BROKEN DOWN. HE CANNOT handle hardcore anymore. I like angle, but it's time to retire, not go to ECW.

RVD failed in my eyes by being IRRESPONSIBLE. Not to mention he can't handle the microphone. John Cena knows how to be a RESPONSIBLE champion. Wrestling fans don't give a shit? He gets some of the biggest reaction out of the whole roster, why do u think WWE is pushing him. Non wrestling fans? He already has a movie deal! And these days, non wrestling fans don't care about WRESTLERS because they are not fans of WRESTLING common sense.

It might be an economic sucess, but for what it is being advertised as, hardcore wrestling it's a failure. It's also a failure of the name.

It's called logic. There is no reason why Dudleys wouldn't want to work for the WWE unless it was a money issue. They are wrestlers, WWE is the best wrestling federation, so of course they want to be there so I guess WWE didn't give them the money they deserved. Anything else is NOT LOGICAL.

I watched some original ECW. It doesn't matter if you watched longer when I have THE FACTS. Oh and by the way, Chairs, High Flying, Tables and wrestling can be HARDCORE too. I know very well what ECW is about, it is about EXTREME and EXTREME is what it is not giving us today. It had technical wrestling, but like I said, it was NOT the focus. They didn't call themselves MCW, MAT CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING, they were EXTREME.

common sense!

Exactly! WWE censored the crowd as much as they could and don't let the crowd get all out and EXTREME like real ECW did.

Good point.

Yes, a REAL hardcore federation would go for stuff like lightube matches and such, but the new ECW is too afraid to bring this into the fold and thus my point was that they would be afraid to bring something new in and thus innovate. It would be innovative for ECW to use, because it hasn't used it in the past, it would be something new, but WWE is too concerned about their workers safety and looking well rather then give us real hardcore. This ain't the spirit of ECW.