I swear there is no pleasing some of you (WWE-related)
 

Honestly, the past 3-4 episodes of RAW weren't the best shows ever, but there are pretty god damn decent. For people to say that "this was the worst RAW show in a long time", just stop fucking watching it and tune in to TNA. Maybe you can help their ratings out so that they can compete with the WWE's brands. Damn, i understand that the WWE COULD do better and COULD push better people but for what they've got right now, they are doing pretty fucking well. There isn't a ROCK, SCSA, or whatnot right now sweeping the wrestling world, so don't expect the same shit you watched during 1997-2000.

Honestly, i think the majority of posters post what they do because others are doing it and feel that they should jump on the bandwagon. There cannot be THAT many Cena haters on TPWW. Face it:

-Orton dropped the ball when he had the title. Maybe he will get another chance, but he dropped it.

-Cena is the best thing the WWE has got right now as a marketable character so if you don't want to watch him, THEN DON'T. He is not THAT bad as some of you rant about. Remember, most of his character now is NOT creative control.

-I don't know about any of you, but DX has been doing some funny shit lately and their promo with Cryme Tyme Monday was CLASSIC. Sure, some stuff is a little immature, but for the most part they have been A-. Speaking of Cryme Tyme, fucking genius.

I'm not ranting, but at the same time i'm just tired of people not even giving these shows a chance at ALL.

I wouldn't call Cena 'bad' I would say 'Stale' he needs something to freshen his character up a little.

The only thing that pissed me off was that they turned Eugene heel last week, and acted like it never happened this week. DO SOMETHING WITH YOUR MIDCARDERS ALREADY!!! FUCK!!

"I don't think it's bad, so none of you should either. If you're not jumping on my bandwagon, then you're on the bandwagon!"

Once again, assuming KK. Like everything that you say is the 'public' or 'general' POV. I am stating that people ARE jumping on bandwagons and never look at ANY positive aspects of RAW. Examples of those are what i stated. Yes, some may be my personal opinions, but those examples are some of what i see on TPWW. I could list more.

No, I'm not assuming. I'm mocking.

But thanks for being a hypocrite, calling me on assumption and then making assumptions yourself.

I know the concept of me being a smartass is such an alien concept, because I am so dreadfully serious so much of the time, but please. Try to assume it's possible that I'm merely mocking your preseltysing, not doing so myself.

I couldn't give a shit if I'm on a bandwagon or not quite frankly

That's just the bandwagon talking, john.

I look at the positive aspects of Raw, as I'm sure alot of other people do as well. But the reason people are so decisive on how bad Raw is (or any other WWE program), is because the negatives far outweigh the positives.

Yes, there are positive aspects, 90 percent of the time there's going to be something positive, but that doesn't make the show good just because it had one or two positives. There's more negatives with every show. That's the problem. Sure, they might've changed something, and it might be a little better than it was in the weeks prior. But they screw things up more than anything else.

Hence, yes, it's going to be hard to please people who have watched for a while, and know that the WWE could be doing alot better than they currently are.

Sure, mocking. While mocking me, you are making the assumption that i feel the way in which you are mocking me. Whether you want to agree with that or not is irrelavent right now as far as i am concerned.

Back to the topic on hand.

The bandwagon ran me down. O'course I'm gonna complain :rant:

Bandwagons tend to run you down if you don't agree with them. :shifty:

Then they dance on your carcass

then steal your picture of your g/f and masturbate on it and put it back and then...

wait, back on topic plz

Ignoring that you made that up, I would like to jump on your bandwagon.

You'd have to sit in the front just in case we get pulled by the police. I'm sure you could get out of a ticket ;)

u're just saying that because I give a mean blowjob.

You're.

url

So much for this thread

I've been giving the show a chance, for almost 2 years when I've pretty much disliked it all. Yesterday's Raw was pretty terrible, but then again, the shows from abroad normally are. Cryme Time, in my book, are a poor version of the Guerreros. This Lie/cheat/steal shit has been done, now we have another 'racial stereotype' group doing the same thing. The DX skit with them was not funny at all, in fact, most of it was stolen from Airplane for fucks sake.

I haven't liked Cena since the heated rapping stopped. He is simply, a childs character, the Hulk Hogan of the Noughties. He's not even the hippity hop character he was a year ago, even JR said 'its The Marine!' when he came out.

We're seeing mid-card title changes every week almost, Edge is a 200-time tag champion now, what good is that gonna do, except give Trips and Michaels the DX tag title run they've probably always wanted?

This Raw was totally about outside the ring activities, which resulted in the clusterfuck that we got. The 'main event' openly in the middle of the show. A terrible Cena vs Umaga feud starting because there simply isn't any heels left for Cena to fight, except for Orton, which they are so obviously saving for Wrestlemania it's ridiculous. I can say already with a degree of certainty that Orton will win the Rumble.

The entertaining ones, Carlito/Benjamin for example are hardly on the fucking show.

You say that there isn't a Rock/Austin on the show almost like it's an excuse for mediocrity in the writing of the show. I say that when Rock/Austin was on the show, merch sales flowed in irrespective of what they did. Nowadays that money stream isn't so constant, so DX and Cena are made so babyface it's sickening.

You say Raw has been great, I say it's been shit and my opinion matters more.

yea, really.

I'm not on a bandwagon, I'm honestly losing interest in Raw. I was really enjoying it but the past couple of weeks, it has seemed to have gotten much worse.

I give it every chance in the world but the fact is it's boring. There's NOTHING happening in any storyline. They're not building new characters, and their top guys aren't top guys. The matches are all very similar. It's just not improving or getting worse. Same shit over and over.

I haven't watched the last few episodes of RAW and don't really care. This coming from someone whos been a devoted fan to wrestling my entire life. I've taken the advice of board members, Jim Ross, the WWE and others - if you don't like what your seeing - don't watch the product.

So all of the 4 million or so viewers who abandoned the company around 2002 are just hopping aboard a bandwagon?

And why should we watch TNA just because we don't like the WWE? If it's bad, too, then using your argument, we shouldn't watch it.

What i was saying was people state "These shows (WWE) are going to make me watch TNA even more, etc." So i said hell, watch TNA and don't watch WWE. Simply as that.

People, my statements are targeting specific people. If you say such things and whatnot, then feel the wrath bitch. But if not, then this is not towards you.

Oh, well, glad we cleared that up.

I'm assuming that I was one of the specific people due to my comments on the Raw thread.

I'm yet to feel the wrath, what I am feeling is a lot of incoherent arguments in which you don't put your point across particularly well.

All in all, I may still watch Raw, and if I do and dislike it, i will explain my opinions and if you don't like my opinions, I'd suggest not reading them. As my opinion matters more.

I still like Raw/SD. Not a fan of Cena, but I've seen worse (*coughMysteriocough*).


I don't see what all the complaining is about either, to be honest.

Would it blunt your wrath to realize that people just might not like what other people like?

I generally try to like every WWE show, and look for the positives and enjoy them. However, Raw has been boring me to tears lately, and I can't watch it. I want it to turn around, I want the WWE to turn around.

The interesting thing though, is you're saying the last few shows haven't been all that bad, when clearly, something's wrong. In the last few weeks, viewers have been dropping off. Wrestling is drawing numbers below 3 consistantly on Monday Nights. And tomorrow, I'll check again, but I bet you they aren't going up for this last week. Even babyface, "everyone hates Cena" John Cena was getting 3.6 ratings, which seemed to indicate that the hourlies wouldn't drop below them. Now, for some reason, the ratings are down .6 to .8 on any given hour.

Something is horribly wrong, and people are turning away. I know I am. I'll go back to Raw eventually, but it'll be a while. But clearly, even without watching it, I know something's horribly wrong with Raw. And people are telling WWE that.

This is a point-by-point rebuttal:

Fans wanted to be behind Cena and Orton. The only reason there is no Rock or Austin is because WWE fucked up.

DX is the best thing on the show, but that doesn't make it any less of a Quagmire. I love DX, but it's not worth my tuning in for them, because almost everything else sucks. I love Cryme Tyme, and one or two other guys, but the show really sucks right now.

In terms of "giving it a chance," refer to the first couple of paragraphs. Longterm fans are turning away. This isn't an instance of not giving it a chance. When the ratings are stable for years and then start dropping off, that generally means something is horribly wrong. This is not a bright thing to claim, and was the primary reason I was mocking you in the first place.

:naughty:

:kiss:

I haven't watched smackdown since Rey was champ.

SmackDown! has improved tremendously, it's better than Raw right now.

I agree. I have been enjoying Smackdown for a while now.

The problem with Cryme Tyme is that they are awful in the ring. JTG and Shad Gaspard should really still be in OVW. Actually, DSW has the better teams, so a move over there would have done them some good.

Triple H and Shawn Michaels just aren't funny. They are trying too hard, their jokes are something that 12 year olds would be heard rattling off. OK, we get it! A rooster can be called a "cock". A "cock" is also a nickname given to a penis. You didn't need to put it on a shirt. I'm sure the people that originally came up with using "cock" as a slang for penis didn't make that bigger deal about it.

Edge and Randy Orton winning the World Tag Team Championship is good, as people might care about the belts now they're on main eventers, again. The Intercontinental Championship changes are somewhat interesting, but a little redundant. They should bring in Joey Mercury to feud with Johnny Nitro over the Title.

John Cena is not the best thing going for the WWE right now. To paraphrase a line from Scrubs, John Cena's "like the guy who goes to a garage sale, buys a bronze medal without having served, and gets everyone to call him Sarge. And newbie, nobody likes that guy". He moves like a retard in the ring, he's just not charismatic enough to be in the position he currently is. He's feuding with Umaga, who is just a stupid character.

Thank God the WWE still has SmackDown!...

:-\

I thought the fact that he tried to attack their two biggest faces was probably a heelish thing to do?

Remember there is still some consistency in WWE. While he may now be a heel, he is also still retarded and they can't exactly have him come out and act like Edge, can they?

Hacksaw probably wasn't available to come over to the UK or something so they decided to have him go against their top two faces for a segment.

Don't worry, you'll get your Eugene heel feud next week :y:

I agree on DX. Man, that's fucking awful how they've beaten the "cock" jokes to death.

LOL.

When they are promoting a piece of shit no-name "celebrity" sponging off his soon to be ex-wife and has absolutely no experience in the wrestling business and is only there to promote his concerts and his new album against the WWE CHAMPION, then its time to stop giving it a chance.

HEY...WHAT'S GOING ON HERE???:rant:

Ya know, sometimes you can just tell when people are stretching for criticisms, and this is one of those times. So what if eddie/chavo did that gimmick before? It's got its magic so they decided to bring it back wih a twist this time. They make me laugh atleast, that segment with Shelton and then later with DX was quite funny, Stop taking it so seriously.

As for the starter of this thread, you're basically saying that just cause you're liking raw then everybody else must. Well get this mate, you can't please everyone. Especially when most of the card just sems like a bunch of filler matches and reminds me every week why the roster split needs to end.

JV - are you crazy? Raw has been fucking piss poor recently. I don't even want to imagine what it would be like this whole year without Cena and Edge.

^ Didn't even think about how bad it would've been without them two, i mean, their feud wasn't exactly entertaining, but Raw would've looked worse overall without them.

NO WAI, MAN, THATs AN ASSUMPTION! DONT ASSUME HIS POINT!

The real problem isn't that they can't please everyone, it's that they can't please anyone. In the course of 2-3 months, they've lost nearly one fucking million people.

Again, one of the main reasons I mocked Vegas. This shit is fucking idiotic. There is no defense for Raw right now, none at all. Losing .8 points is serious shit, as it's around a million people (Depending on the slot, 1 point can mean as much as 3.6 million, IIRC the peaks), maybe more.

(Editor's note: Raw has lost well over a million viewers, bordering on two, since July. So it's the last 4 months, but it's well over a million viewers. More recently, their shows have dumped at least half a million people in FOUR WEEKS)

Vegas' argument is bordering on MAKE IT OR BREAK IT's "bad apples" conspiracy theory. It's good, it's just so many people are hating it because it's cool. Well, if the IWC is that influential, if we can make them shed millions of viewers, they'd better start pandering to us.

Well, I'm glad it makes you laugh, and so is Stephanie McMahon obviously. Sadly, I can't find anything funny in 25 year old jokes wrapped in a 4 year old gimmick. If they actually did different things to what the Guerreros did, then perhaps it would be funny. If they had done the skit with DX and demanded the $10000 for 2 tickets, that would have been funny. What next, at the Rumble, they STEAL someone elses numbers?

Although your posts are ironic throughout, I will say this, I don't 'hate on' Raw because it's cool to do so. I hate on it because it's currently a terrible product.

Like I said, you can't please everyone. I personally find them to be one of the few entertaining things left on Raw. Just cause a gimmick has been done before doesn't mean it's lost its magic.

I watched RAW for the first time in a while and I saw HHH & HBK beating up 1 third of the roster. I mean, most of the people they beat up and buried are jokes but come on.

You have Chris Masters punk out Jerry Lawler to help get him over or whatever, and then the next segment HHH knocks him out cold in less than 5 seconds. Like, what the fuck is the point in having Masters go over a 'legend', only to have him lying unconscious on some toilet seat 5 minutes later??? What a friggin waste of air time.

mine :cool:
 

If you read this, you are going to die – a grotesque man with a glass black eye waits for you. He will show up unexpectedly and snatch you away and take you to his basement cellar. He will then pluck out your eyes with a knife, and begin poking you relentlessly with a sharp pen until you die. Once dead, he will compose your meat for the pigs. BRUTAL DEATH WILL COME UNLESS YOU POST THIS MESSAGE IN EIGHT MORE TOPICS IN THE NEXT 24 HOURS! You will receive a homebaked cookie with sprinkles on top for your efforts.

^ That confused me aswell(in reply to Mr. JL). The segment with King just didn't seem to serve any prupose at all other than to waste time.

End the roster split already WWE, you fucking idiots. I'm just going to stop watching wrestling until they do, well actually, i'll watch Smackdown while its good, but i'm going avoid every raw show(aswell as highlight shows) until they start improving in the ratings or end the roster split.

The last month of Raw has been the worst month that I can remember. I seriously feel like I'm watching WCW Thunder.

You do realise, I was summing up Vermaat's beliefs, not stating my own.

Well, Raw's roster is a joke.

That's funny... I thought it WAS WCW Thunder. :shifty:

I don't know. I think WCW came up with some original stuff. Sure, it sucked, but at least "Viagra on a pole" hadn't run its course ten years ago...:shifty:

Vegas > Most.

I gatta disagree with you Alieniod SD has been touted as the "B" show for so long now that it does not matter what improvments are made to it.ECW is being prepared to be the new "B" show, to me.

Vegas, I've been awrestling fan for 20 years. So for me to be losing interest, it hads to be bad. I've beren giving both TNA and WWE a chance every week for years now.

They've run out of chances.

All the talk about RAW and SmackDown, and no one has even mentioned ECW.

Tells you a LOT about how they are fucking up ECW, now does it?

Why the hell would anyone want to talk about ECW Velocity?

If it wasn't for Van Dam, I wouldn't even read the TV reports!

Yeah, nobody wants to talk about that trash because it SUCKS.

Is that some kind of gimmick you are trying to get over. Because you've said it twice and i still dont give a neck-breaking fuck.

What i am saying is this. People expect too much out of RAW because of it's past. Now its not wrong to have high expectations, yet some people here seem to be biased, IMO. I will admit that RAW isn't the best that it could be and that it may have to do with some of the WWE talent scouts/writers being straight dumbasses, but if it is that bad, then just dont watch it. Yea, easier said than done, but its not that hard to do either.

The problem with the WWE writing as a whole is that those who grew up watching it and were loyal fans have GROWN UP, yet they fail to realize that.

My Point: Cryme Tyme is the shit

Another thing, i've seen it in the thread, but the roster split between RAW and SD! needs to end. We know why they've done it, but they need to think about the future. It is a good business move if they are REALLY competing, but everyone knows that Vince owns it all so no one will take it seriously. Plus, the WWE currently feels like it doesn't need a reason to bring the highest quality shows. With no real competition, they feel they can do this. This is one reason why i believe the buying of WCW was the worst thing for wrestling.

I'm afraid not, it was a vehicle to wind you up, and it's worked. Gimmicks on messageboards?

So you admit 'Raw isnt the best' yet the opening tirade you posted was that it was 'pretty damn decent'. You then say that its down to the writers being 'straight dumbasses', again contradicting your original view that it was 'decent'.

I'd say that you are backtracking under the weight of popular feeling. Raw is terrible, has been for weeks, there are no real storylines happening on Raw.

Look at Hardy & Nitro, they wrestle week after week for the IC title, and I don't recall one single promo between them. This is for the (alledged) second most prestigious title in the WWE. They are just fighting, because, there isn't much else for them to do as neither are trusted on the mic, or are anywhere near a main event level. JR mocks Nitro for not wearing the belt, but then shouts 'BAHGAWD HERE COMES THE MARINE!' when John Cena appears carrying the belt like a 50% off Subway lunch. Carlito has 2 minutes a week to put over some sort of ladies man gimmick. DX have a good half hour, pretty much doing nothing. 'Cryme Time are the shit' according to you, but they are never in the ring. They are of course, a recycled 4 year old gimmick with 25 year old jokes (i can tell you liked that one).

I don't have high expectations, I've been watching this crap for the last 3 years without any, but when Raw drops below the level of when Triple H was winning the title carrying an injury where he could hardly walk, then there's issues with the programming. As I say, I may watch it this Monday, I may not. I certainly won't be bothered if I missed it.

And just to remember Johnny, my opinion matters......*sigh*...more. :D

Ending the Roster split doesn't change anything.

Ending the roster split means less filler matches if they want to go in that direction. Having played the SD vs Raw game in Gm mode I can't help but think how easier it would be to book a show with a full roster. It gets so boring the more you limit your options. Don't believe me? Try it yourself.

And it's not a good business move in the sense that if someone at the top gets injured, they haven't got enough wrestlers ready to step up now.

In your opinion, that is.

Valid point.

If you really feel the need to point this out, you're too retarded to waste a serious response on. In lieu of that...

OMG UR SO DUM IM TEH HED OF WWE TALANT N I NOE WOT IM TALKING ABOT SO STFU ITS FACT!

You've lost me KK. You think anything anyone says/does is retarded though, so I'll just laugh that comment off.

It can change the quality of the matches and shows. Think about it, RAW hasn't been the same ever since the roster split. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but in the longevity, it reminds me of when the nWo made team A and B. One of them has to remain dominant, while the other may not have as good a chance. I think that if you end the roster split, that itself would bring viewers back to freshen things up and allow the right wrestlers to shine. I mean for god's sake, Cena v. Umaga? Wake me up when the fued is done. There is always a negative factor of "what if" in the WWE today. If Cena gets injured next week, who is going to pick up the slack for RAW as far as a title contending babyface? Whereas if you ended the roster split, there will be more to choose from.

I understand that many people will not get a chance to shine, but that forces those people to 'step their game up'. As far as the traveling, hell, Flair did it, Rock did it, SCSA did it, HOGAN did it. It is a part of the business and people who enter it know this.

RAW hasn't been the best THAT IT CAN BE, but with what they have, they are doing a decent damn job, IMO. Cleared that up.

As far as the IC title portion you mentioned, the fued is just starting to heat up. After last monday, i expect a bit more emotional support to come because of how Nitro 'let out frustration' after the match, which will give the feeling that it is 'very personal'.

One thing that is losing the viewers is Cena's gimmick. We all know it is stale, but it is not all of his fault. Which comes to my part of the writers being "dumbasses". Do what brought you to the dance, so to speak. THIS is where i believe the writers are fucking up. This is also why i believe that the roster split should stop, as it would give the writers more ideas as to what to do with the talent. Sure, everyone won't be able to compete, but that is either: 1.) Their own fault for not putting enough time into their character 2.) The crowd/consumer doesn't buy into them. So, with that said, you should get rid of the 'dead weight'. A smart business move. Things are so predictable because there is no variety on the show. We all know that Cena is going to beat Umaga, Orton is going to Mania, SS will split, etc. With more variety, i.e. ending the roster split, more ideas develop.

Imagine this card for a PPV:

-Cena v. Booker T (title unification match)
-Hardy v. Nitro v. Benjamin v. Carlito (IC title match, preferably ladder or TLC)
-Batista v. Edge v. Rey Mysterio (#1 Contenders match for heavyweight/WWE title)
-Chavo v. Masters v. Benoit v. Umaga (#1 Contenders match for IC title)
-Kendrick/London v. Edge/Orton (tag title unification match)
-Jimmy Wang Yang v. Helms v. Mercury v. Noble(4-way elimination Cruiserweight Title Match)
-Some interesting women's title match
-JBL/JR or Cole at ringside (King can be an anchor)
-DX could recruit some of the spirit squad when they split up or form some tag teams

and that was just off the top of my head. Obviously it can be altered, but i think you see my point. Fresh ideas.

Wow, someone actually understands where i'm coming from. :y:

No, I save it for people who are especially stupid, like the twats who think it's necessary to point out, in an instance of speculation, that it's "your opinion." That's obvious, unneccessary, and stupid. If that's your only argument, then you don't have an argument. Of course it's my opinion, that's understood by the intelligent folks.

Except every argument you can make about the roster split is true of the roster unified. I love how you sneak in that , "well, not everyone will give it a chance..." but that's just bullshit. You're basically backing up an unfounded, dishonest (perhaps unintentionally) point of view by trying to pin the blame on the other guy.

Trust me. The same was true for the people who said the roster split was a good idea. They, amazingly, managed to make similar statements to you that SUPPORTED the roster split. Cena/Umaga is not because of a roster issue, it's because WWE is pushing Umaga. We've had talentless fucks and old hasbeens suck up the shows when they were together AND when they were split, so that's a pointless argument. The right wrestlers who will shine? You'll see Cena/Umaga on two shows, because to the WWE, they are the right wrestlers.

Really, all your points are silly and myopic. Like they'd do anything different. We've seen that's not really the case.

Oh, right, but I'm sure this time it'll all work out.

lol like someone stated before, everyone argument or fact stated against yours is silly, immature, stupid, etc. Instead of bashing people, why not have a civilized debate/discussion. I forgot, this is KK we're talking about lol.

Anyway, other than shove Hulk Hogan, The Rock, or another big name down our throats, i propose that is the right solution for this time. Umaga is being pushed because he is the right wrestler...Yea, for a dull roster. The roster split was thought to be a smart move during that time, but as we can see, that is one reason for the loss of viewers. lol i mean seriously, i think ending the roster split is a legit reason, as i stated above. I am not repeating myself. Seeing as everyone gets mad when you do this, i can't, because all i have to do it look at Chavo Classic's sig :cool:

I bet you it will bring better ratings and more revenue than it the WWE is gaining now. I would bet money on that. (waiting for criticism of post)

How long ago did the roster split happen? And it's just now affecting the ratings? I doubt it. The shitty product is a much more realistic explanation. Combining the rosters isn't going to accomplish anything more than mucking things up even further. More talent will get buried if Cena, Umaga, DX, etc. appear on both shows, which they inevitably will.

Who will get buried that shouldn't be? Realistically speaking. If we are going to talk about people getting buried, we should use KK's opinion in that that, historically, wrestlers getting buried have been in wrestling for years.

The thing is KK you act like your opinion is the only one that matters and bash everyone elses as retarded or whatever. So i felt I had to point it out, call me names if you must, if it makes you feel any better.

It's not so much who they have on the roster now (because a lot of them do need to be buried), but the time that they will allow themselves to build completely new stars. If the old faces are busy trying to make waves on Mondays and Fridays, that leaves a lot less time for the undercard to grow and improve. I see it causing the WWE to stagnate even further, which is the last thing that they need.

3 years, and its been a problem since after the first year i would say. They've lost around a million viewers during that time, so its obviously not working anymore.Your point about wrestlers getting buried ridiculous though, wrestlers get buried regardless of whether there's a roster split or not. Plus it would force them to work a lot harder than they're now, and now there's ECW, anyone important who gets lost in the shuffle could be sent there.

As much as i hate good talent being buried and 'old' faces being on the screen, you have maintain a level of "We are the best company" quality. If that means that you have to have familiar faces mainstreaming for a while, then so be it. I do not want to see Triple H burying a GOOD contender for the main event status, but i do believe that the dead weight will be obviously displayed. I know right now, Triple H is probably telling Vince "see what happens when the title is off of me", but even he can't boost the ratings by himself.

I just think that ending the roster split will make people "get on the grind" and try their best to be on the show. One thing that the WWE needs to do better in the future if they do end the roster split is to LISTEN TO THE FANS' REACTION(S). If Cena is getting booed, time to make him a heel. However, if a heel is getting cheers DOES NOT mean that you have to turn him. For every legit heel, there has to be a legit face.

Again, with the little conspiracies.

Sorry you're tapped out in terms of an actual argument, so you have to resort to the "Well everyone who disagrees with you is..."

Sorry. doesn't work that way. It doesn't take much to see that, either.

Umaga is the right wrestler for a dull roster or for a roster where Vince is in charge. The two are one and the same.

The problem is, you're making excuses. People like you have gotten themselves all worked up, making excuses for the product. This detracts from the real issue, which is lack of creativity. You're still being an enabler here, because you act like "oh, well things would improve if..."

...Except we have so much evidence to the contrary.

Vince and creative chose to bring Umaga in, and push him to the moon. This would not have changed with a unified roster, nor will it change if the roster was unified. It's pure fantasy to claim otherwise.

And I know. This is all part of the KK Konspiracy, where everybody is (insert whatever it is)....You keep believing that, it's all you really need to tell yourself, but the emperor has no clothes, my friend.

It's worth noting that WWE has botched Orton. They've botched Cena. They've botched potentially the biggest things in pro wrestling this time. They've had some potentially large stars that have basically fallen to the flaws of the WWE machine. To say that the problem is with a divided roster is to basically ignore the fact that they cannot handle their talent, and have squandered the talent that they have to work with. The lackluster rosters are due to that, not to some far-fetched ideal.

The same is true with ECW. What did they start to do when the ratings weren't up to par? Yup. They emphasised the part of the program that was shittiest.

Occam's Razor.

I simply don't see where the fresh ideas are going to come from. End the roster split and you are just making more time for the Raw feuds. Can you honestly believe that Kendrick & London would get any decent TV time? That Chavo Guerrero would have any place on the 2 shows? Going back to one roster/2 shows would put it back to how it was originally. 2 shows with the same feuds, just more drawn out. Just because you have a larger roster doesn't neccessarily mean (in the eyes of the writers) that it's going to be any better. In fact, it would be worse. Seeing Orton/Edge/Cryme Time/Cena twice a week, out of HAVING to watch both shows simply to stay with storylines doesn't attract me at all. You wouldn't be left with new ideas, just Raw twice a week. Which is, at the moment, a show of rehashed ideas and poor writing for the newer ones.

But with each post, you are coming more and more round to my way of thinking. Raw isn't the best that it can be at all, it's a million miles away. I can't see how you can still justify your stance by basically saying that a Cryme Time/DX skit and one 'feud' make it a good show. I still don't even class the IC title matches as a 'feud'. Next week is a ladder match, that after 2 matches/2 title changes in 2 weeks. They are running out of ideas for this feud, and the only emotion shown in it was several months ago when Jeff Hardy looked at a wall of drying paint. After a program on and off for those several months and 3 title changes between the pair, suddenly, according to you, it's just heating up. Something wrong in that.

If I was writing the Nitro/Hardy program, I would have announced 3 weeks ago that they were having a best-of-5 series. Including the Survivor Series match (where the one eliminated first would lose), and culminating in the ladder match the Monday after the SS with Hardy going over. This gives it a slight emotional edge, and could even start the threads for Nitros next feud, as HBK could have eliminated him at Survivor Series, leading him to align with Edge & Orton. Instead we have a pointless run of matches which have the same old thing every week.

The matches you list are all well and good, but the amount of people involved, can you really see it happening in 4 hours of time? Especially when you include your obligatory DX skits, Cryme Time rehashes, Vince McMahon promos, Marine trailers and Masterlock challenges?

Just as I could never see a roster split working, now it's done, I can't see it ever being undone. Hell, they had to 'recreate' ECW to move some 'dead weights' to, simply to get them to earn their wage.

Sounds like some sort of slasher movie.

Obviously wrestlers are getting buried either way; that's the nature of the business. But you can limit the amount of talent that is wasted by putting more of them on TV. The roster split affords them the ability to do that. As much as I was and am still opposed to it, the WWE is in pretty deep with this roster split business and fixing it is going to be much more difficult than simply combining them together again.

I'm sure they could fit them all into a 2 hour show, and send the rest who get left out to ecw, especially when they will have both raw and smackdown to use them on, ending the roster split will mean less squash matches, that's for sure. I just think you're just exaggerating to make your point seem logical tbh. It worked back in the day, so why can't it work now? Think about it for a bit.

I could be wrong on this one and am far too lazy to research the numbers, but I'm fairly sure that WWE employs more in-ring talent now than they did in the past. So obviously somebody's going to have to lose TV time if the rosters are combined. And shoving them onto ECW won't do much good. They've already got more people on that roster than they utilize.

But this time it'll be different.

No, seriously, for the most part you're right. Compared the the amount of programming, this is more talent than they would otherwise employ. Once people are on both shows again, the TV time is reduced, and the need for wrestlers is reduced.

People will lose TV time, and it'll be to an extra DX segment, an extra Undertaker or Batista segment, or an extra Cena/Choomaga segment. It's totally naïve to think otherwise.

If they gave ECW a 2 hour time slot aswell then it wouldn't be a problem. But regardless of how many wrestlers they employ these days, there's a lot of them that i don't give a shit about and certainly wouldn't miss if they lost their tv time. They could always bring back stables aswell, that would help deal with the problem.